come across stock where all things are considered on peter a little, just enough to keep the lights on and care. this seems to be the new approach adopted by the e. u. and possibly even the united states. one thing is clear, ukraine is losing and will never when the only mission left is to deny russia victory, the cross sucking ukraine. i'm joined by my guess people, cousin, they can with us. they. he is a professor of history at american university as well as co author with oliver stone of the untold history of the united states in new york. we have him cabinet. he is a political analyst, and in philadelphia we cross who in good he is a political scientist historian, as well as author of american exception empire. and the deep states are a gentleman, cross black rules and effect. that means it can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate peter, let me go to you 1st and with us. so thank you for coming on. the program is, as always, we just had the european union after black mailing hungry to,

to agree to an, a new 50000000000 euro. a package for ukraine is covers for years. it's a, some direct, a revenue injection. and some loan guarantees which i doubt will ever be paid back . i'm calling this program to have on lice what support is this live support and a for in the wrapped up in virtue signaling from the you. right now live support is pretty welcome. any and cave when you're, when it looks like you're almost dead and you've got very few options and you're running out of money and you're running out of how munition you're running out of manpower. a little bit of live support looks like a welcome gift right now. as you say is 50000000000 over 4 years, which is not very much. i a to us proposal is a said 60000000000 immediately. and that would make that would be in

a fusion that would make a little bit of a difference. well, this is not what, what difference would it make? it would keep it going longer. it would prolong the fighting for long. the slaughter and the word in the west is if we can get somehow through 20242025 will look much better. so that, well then that you can be ready for a counter news counter offensive with new weapons. and this one will work. and so we just have to get through bite the bullet. since we don't have very many bullets have to be careful that which was providing and ad in the short run. and so it's. busy the strategy of throwing more and more human manpower into a desperate situation. that's good a year from now or 2 years from now. certainly not be any more promising from ukraine is standpoint for any kind of so called ukrainian military victory. yeah, but jim, people in washington know there's people in brussels know,

knows this and people in camp. no, that's so this is kind of a few tile. i mean it's almost to the point of just being cruel jim. well, this is this strange frame of mind that people get in. you've got to believe it. even if you don't know, even if you know it's not true. and they think that the, you know, they're writing up ed saying all we're going to pull back and go on defense. we're going to build up ukrainian drone industries and will come back as p. s as in 2025 . and they've got to tell themselves this and, and, you know, it is a strange think it's one of these, the world is getting more absurd, as well as well as more horrible and more cruel. you have this vision of you watching people who know and say that they're losing and then they dream up the scenarios. they think they're talking to themselves about this and they're telling themselves, well,

it ain't over yet because we can do this that. and the other thing, and we can imagine certain scenarios that will come back in when the day in the meantime. they really discount the fact that there's this other party val, russia, that's going to act. i'm going to do things that you know, disrupt, where the fantasies of what's happening and not only russia 0, the ukrainian, fascist who they think they have under control over time. and they don't do you know, you have this, this uh drama going on between the lead schemes. you're losing you right now, which has been the and when were you trained? the been there a certain the background and the americans don't really have total control of that . so you have this situation where people of lost control of things they're putting them on life support. is that like i'm ventilation? sure. now, you know, it's like the cobra now i do want to ventilate, as the ventilator is killed. that literally. yeah, you're giving them life support given in ventilation and it's going to end up just making them go down harder. and uh, well, i made a change here and not jim,

this is an influx of money will just continue the complex kill more people and ukraine will just get smaller. i can see how that's a winning proposition. aaron, let me go to you. there is an alternative theory to the case now, of course, and it's called the grist. okay, keep it going. so the money is sent to everybody gets their card. okay? and then you wait for the next 3 months, okay? and this is the same leadership in, in care of that is completely indifferent to the destruction of there you are all very young man. i mean, you can say that's an opinion, but that's actually a reality. if you look at the demographics, aaron, the yeah, they are the, the leadership is a position where it is a gift for them. and there's been a considerable amount of corruption. we don't know where all the money has gone that we have sent them. and for them, the incentive is to keep this going. and also the distance of is that if they were to go against the war effort, they could find themselves, you know,

ousted or murdered. i think they even murdered some of the piece negotiators in the early days of this war when they returned for dubious reasons. so we're now in the stage where what the us empire wants is totally in feasible and not pop possible, but they cannot adjust to this reality. and now they're just wanting to apparently keep it going. it perhaps until the election. i don't even know if that is possible . the age, the average age of the ukrainian service then keeps going up, which is on the one hand and thinking how sad it is that there's these 50 year old guys or 60 year olds, even if the average is 43. and some of them have to be a good bit older than that. and then that, but then you also stop and think about it. that's not as to how does these 20 year olds who have already died, because at least the 50 year old as we're to see 50. now what we've done to this country is beyond imagining we and we're upset about the people coming home from a rack and afghanistan. but those numbers are miniscule compared to what you kind

of seen with a much smaller population. i don't see how they can disguise what a horrible, horrible disaster this has been and how it's a total failure on every level, including their ability to or their uh, the imperative to always establish the parents. right. so that no one will challenge you again. well, they look so bad in every way and it's a, it's a strategic failure on pretty much every level for the us. and now they're just wanting to extend it so they don't have to not acknowledge that it's happened. yeah, well aaron, and you forgot that other category of people that it really benefited and profited off of this conflict. okay. which goes there is no accountability the a where the money and weapons have gone. peter, i i'm sure you a came across the news that victoria newland visited care of 10 years after the crime of the might onto um and she said had some really kind of quizzical things to say like, um i can't, i can't remember the exact words, but there's could be some really unpleasant surprises for russian this year. what

do you think of that? the, what do you say? yeah, well then i don't know what to say. that's why i asked, do, i'm sorry, go ahead. oh, it is which really works if it works just, it's just heartbreaking to, to watch this. and the thought that, you know, maybe russia had breakthrough, maybe the ukrainian army collapses. maybe the jim is telling you about zoom, losing the and you know, so, so let's case says he's going to replace the illusion a and asked. so there's nature to resign as religious a tells him it, i'll forget it. i'm not going to resign. mean there is a possibility of this unraveling illusion is more popular. and then so lensky is right now and then the military mean, could there be a military rebellion against the landscape if he replaced them?

so it's when that whole thing was breaking that newland quickly rushed over the yeah. yeah. i'm not sure what she's trying to do if you keep on hearing the word coming out of washington, is that well this is a you internally ukrainian matter. the get involved and we're happy, whichever way this turns out. like clearly that's not the case. so who is going over there to do damage control? but it might not be possible to do damage control every day. there's more rumors and it also is the, let's get those goes ahead and fires him. so who did you put in charge? would not let him in this situation there on top of the military style made to disaster, whichever is going on as on top of the kid, failed counter offensive on top of the manpower crisis and the arms crisis. and you've got a political crisis. so it's looking increasingly blake,

and it's very hard to paper it over now. it's very hard to put a positive spin on this for the united states. the only thing that saves the united states from being appropriately chagrined by this whole thing is that the focus in the u. s. is totally on israel and gaza right now is headlines are no longer about ukraine. they're not even a bad taiwan anymore. now it's really about israel, it was also looks pretty terrible. so the vitamin ministration, is it a real bind? because more than 60 percent of the american people are strongly opposed to what u. s. is doing it israel now and among young people is, is it's like 80 percent are opposed, so bite in front of a political standpoint. his hands are of that then i type it is not doing well. i'm worried about. well, peter, i would say, and you know, if they're tied, let me go to the gym here. they're,

they're tied by his donors. it's obvious on both complex here. ukraine and the slaughter in gaza is at the meeting of the donor class. they the hell with public opinion. that's exactly the message. the bible ministration is sending. jim. yeah, look, you've never seen it more clearly that the, the representatives don't represent the people they represent. the donor class looked a democratic party has shut down any democracy within the party. there are no elections, there are no debates. you see now there's no question about the fact that this president, who everybody says, we don't want him to be president stable, you know, and everybody knows can't really and isn't really doing the job, but we're going to stick with them. i don't think they will. i think to replace them, but they're gonna not allow anybody to be helping choose to want to replace them with. uh they might do it at the convention, but they'll do it behind in a closed room with the donors. so we've never seen this discrepancy in all of this in, in ukraine. and, you know, nobody asked for this. nobody wants to send 10 hundreds of billions of dollars to

you call rain. when people in the united states can have health care can. well, jim, jim is we, for as we approach the break, as we approach the break and then the media, mainstream media gives him coverage every step of the way ukraine, gaza, and then impoverishment to be american people. gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here and we're going to go to way short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on ukraine. stay with our team. the take a fresh look around his life. kaleidoscopic isn't just a shifted reality distortion by power to division with no real opinions. fixtures designed to simplify will confuse really one say better wills, and is it just as a chosen few fractured images presented as 1st?

can you see through their illusion going underground can as a result of why this can be started by line, these can be expanded by true importance of we can never be of a station. so that transparency is an extraordinary john. mystic patrice then just succeeded in finding the documents that existed in making them available to the world public. i mean, what could be more holding back by publishing information and sharing information with the public. he was exercising the right to free speech. he did so in the public interest to some of the of the wires and smith and golf and, and honestly, to relate to seriously, i know why advice may say no one who is the guy that illegal

anymore wisely bought the adjustments for to be on boss waiting a $175.00 used to go through did cents. it's all we're going to let that stay the welcome back across stock where all things are considered on peter roosevelt you mind you were discussing ukraine, the okay, let's go back to and in philadelphia, and it's quite remarkable after the conversation, we've already had them this program to mention that um, there are still voices inside of nato land and say yes, on the 75th anniversary of the name of nato's creation. we should invite ukraine to the alliance here, which of course has the private could for the rest of the special military

operation. and denying ukraine membership in a, in a line switch, right? russia sees as an adversary here. it, but nothing seems to penetrate these people facts on the ground reality and, and plus there's so much on, on social media and alternative media that you can get to the story is getting out . it's an odor of failure here, but it's not stopping the decision, making people in nato and in washington. right there for a while. it's been pretty clear that the only way you would have a dramatic reversal in on the battlefield would be if you took measures that would invite nuclear war. it's one of the more bizarre spectacles in the history of u. s. foreign policy. it's a more clear failure and more unwinnable, i think from the beginning with it should've been clear to everyone of in vietnam or a rack. i mean, these are it just as a more ridiculous conflict than anything that i could that i recall seeing in my

life time. it's so many people died and it's been so steady. we don't even know what the number is. is that a half a 1000000 perhaps of ukrainians, and they can, they're still going to be, they still are out there putting out little stories of military successes and so on that you can see read this on online. i don't understand what the thinking is because it just seems that it will ultimately make the humiliation worse and more obvious to everyone. and it will make all their narratives about everything else, even less credible if they care about this. and yet they're going on acting as though they have some basis to speak optimistically or the the hoping victory here at all. it's, it's, i've never seen anything like it. yeah, peter, because at the end of the day this certainly has almost nothing to do with ukraine . in ukrainians, the reason why the, by the administration in the you want to keep this going is that they will somehow wants to deny russia a victory or satisfaction,

but they're willing to use the ukrainians as they are cultural here. and that's what makes it even more cool, because at the end of the day, you claim it's not about ukraine. it's about denying russia security. peter a well, that's from a russian perspective. yeah. it's, yeah. well, it's good to hear the russian perspective once in a while. but some other perspective though you, cuz you can see is of a different of a ukraine was invaded, that was rushed to provoke. absolutely, and i've been from the ukrainian perspective, you don't, you can understand why they're resisting and why they flood very, very bravely and had initial battlefield success. yes. but then they also have the opportunity that they also had an opportunity to make peace. in a april after the february of the special military operation, they had that opportunity and it was denied them as but not by the russians by the west. go ahead, they had the opportunity to prevent this from happening. the 1st place mean that

we've known since of, of the 20072008. put and made clear that he was not going to tolerate this. and we ignored all of his warnings. and we ignored what he offered on the eve of the invasion. and then as you said, there was a chance to end this in early 2022 and, and the we passed out on that are boris johnson. it goes in there and under cuts that and then the united states reinforces that. so there's, that's or say from ukrainian perspective, there was a reason for them to try to resist up to a point. but at this point, they've gotta let reality get in there. because as aaron was saying that their losses have been catastrophic, and it's only going to get worse. and there is a lot of dissent within ukrainian society. and they see there's them sending their

young men there. and that's so young as we were saying, as cannon fodder and they're going to the front lines and they're not trained and they're getting slaughtered. i mean, we're going to be back here a year from now from ukraine. the perspective the best that get how far is this down, right. and the likelihood of that happening is very negligible. they're going to be in worse condition. so this fantasy about 2025. the reality is probably whether it's biden or trump, after the election. they're probably going to find a way to end this. we should end this before because we can save tenzing scores of thousands of lives and destruction they are. but we don't seem to have any wisdom and it statesmanship coming out and now the focus is elsewhere. yeah, been tim, i mean, peter just said, you know, the, the ukrainian perspective a lot, i don't see where the ukrainian is per perspective is. victoria newland is flying in to adjudicate a power struggle in care of where is the ukrainian perspective. okay. i mean,

they're on live support. i mean there is no agency, they've denied themselves their own agency. the only thing they have is the give blood. this is the, this is what empire does jim know, right? yeah, i think you're right. this is a completely coined state. the united states has taken it over, the war is run by american generals. i mean, the french correspondence to this year and a half ago, i went over this whole thing is being run by americans and, and in the, what the and the again, the americans. well, there was a ukrainian perspective has a been there i perspective, which is there, which is a very strong, a political movement in ukraine that has a kind of veto power of what happens in ukraine. and as we see what the americans didn't, they invented this character zalinski as a, as a celebrity, as a kind of rock star. and that's why, from their point of view, if he goes away, that's a bad thing. because the, the, the western public and the american public was nourished on this with a, you know, look at what, look at this heroes zalesky. but in ukraine there are other things going on. is

a discrepancy between your zalinski and to lose me and what they represent. people are very upset with what's happening with the, with the loss of their friends, it and even daughters and father is now in the, on the battlefield. that's going nowhere. and nobody seems to have a plan because there is no possible plan to do anything about it. so the americans are isolated from they don't really know what's happening in ukraine, but do, but american foreign policy watts, who think they can manage everything and think they're gonna figure a way out of this. and we'll find it, we'll, we'll put it into it when we want to put them into it. and i'm just gonna say, you know, russia has actually has agency and they've got, i think it's going to be putting in to buy rush and like, you know, frankly, at some point rush a must, you know, actually have a sense of that when serious territory and makes clear that the, the reality on the ground is irreversibly different and it's never going to be change. well, it's not going to be managed away in the gym. there seems to be growing indications

that that is the case that the an offensive is in the works here. um, uh, i have no insight information about that, but even it's coming out in some western media outlets that there was a build up going on. you know, aaron, is a, one of the tragic things about this, and i'm going to agree with peter. and besides the, is that, you know, the longer this goes on, the more people they lose, and i would even say the smaller ukraine gets. and the if they are cut off from the black sea, then it's a rump state, and then at the end of the day, brussels, i guess we'll get there, which should, it'll be some kind of adopted bastard state, which will all be encouraged to continue to be against russia, the mean this is again, has nothing to do with ukraine method do with policy makers in the west. aaron, as well, you would, it's hard to say exactly what it will end up looking like i had figured just for some time that the 2010 election map is going to end up looking like what the rump

state. let's play a land lock, that's a good point. it's a really good when we land lot stay and it'd be some sort of basis for arguing for that as being self determination for the people in more russian friendly regions of, of ukraine. so that may be what it looks like, but as far as what the state would be able to do going forward, they could join the you potentially, although that would cause some problems for somebody. you people with a cheap labor and other problems that they have. but also the, with the, with russell really tolerates in becoming a part of nato at all. i don't think brussel know to have them joining that. so they would be if they, if they try to put in the military hardware and there i think that rest of, we'll just, i mean rush, i can assist basically on something like the plat amendment for the rump, the state of you trade, where they reserve the right to intervene whenever, if, if there's going to be military installations put in there, it'll be a difficult problem for them to manage. but the thing that makes more sense for our people and even in the ukrainian parts of ukraine,

would be to have some notice of in the, with the rest of going forward. because i do think the whole center of gravity in the, in europe is going to shift towards those uh, the east, even as much as the us has been trying to stop that with blowing up the north stream and everything else. i think that we could end up with a situation that's different than people expect because at some point the ukrainians have to realize that the source of their was is not russia. it's really the united states. well, you know, by, you know, air and the problem, the problem with that and jim is already brought it up, is that we have this, what scholars wouldn't called alicia nationalism this as though nationalism. it's very special stick and it's nature. and they do have us way in, in ukrainian politics and the americans and the europeans. know that, peter, that is a problem for ukraine as well, because russia will not tolerate this kind of breezy mind. it's border because it

says peer, ha, it's hospitality, peter. the question is, how tired are the russians also know they've got a letter and they're they're, they're less tired than the ukrainians. i can guarantee you that. okay, less tired might mean that they're still tired and, and that they might be willing to accept a deal where they get what they already hold and that they're there. they're ready to be willing to stop the friday. no, don't believe ab 0. no, absolutely not. then that is a strategic defeat and what was it all for? okay, what was it all for? know, it was really, really, really. and so we talk about agency and this program, but i have to remind everyone i, i'm amazed that i have the russians have agency to, they had agency in the don bass when they were being shelled for years. and the world never recognize that. but russia to, to this day has agency go ahead. tradition, of course peter, peter,

russia is also suffering. as a result of this, russia is also suffering catastrophic losses. this is a long term impact on the russian economy is not going to be a positive one. and there's a lot of this, there is also some strong sentiment in russia to want this to end. mean i've, i've lived through the wars in the united states as well, but i couldn't, i couldn't tell. i could tell you and our guest in our audience, there's more of an appetite to win, then to call it off. we'll see how it goes. what is already winning? yeah, right. so it will win and it will be a battlefield solution because that's what nato is. determined gentlemen, we just got into a debate here and we ran out of time. i want to thank my guessing, bethesda new york, and in philadelphia. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at our dc and next time. remember, most of the

the the thing that would inform you to with them for the gifts authoritative celia was because they did just wouldn't care to get a car through the new year. oh for g, like teach. so i know for me teaching the scholars that should talk to and you have to go to some of the style approach you with that the, she's more, it's a washing machine and then you move, we must move them on some stuff from 1st month to month

putting them on big louder to move, let me look into that. i will just, i did, i use one for so the lowest probably unloaded. i redid some of them plus $32.00 bits across in rock and you say you're shy, finish this issue. i suppose it's 42. i'm especially if wouldn't it seem to do friday? is the monthly origin of people from the for sure to me and the 10 most of the release of the russian states never is as tight as i'm one of the most sense community invest. nothing was all sense enough in the 65 to 5 has to be the one else holes. question about this, even though we will then in the european union,

the kremlin media mission, the state on rochester, d s r t spoke back to even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube, the payment services for the question, did you say stephen twist which is the, the, the,

the so kind of shots down is probably going to the sabotage of the node stream pipelines that say no swedish citizens were involved with anything beyond that. they do not know if it's business. also the south, not a single western journalist has bothered to interview the president of the other countries involved. and that's probably why them are put at least 66000000 people to need to talk a coffins. tease of the things to be with president who think so i'm going to face that the mainstream media is attempts to it's an old english and perspective. also a has that's due to the american attempts to turn the iraqi territory into an arena for settling geo political scores. and accomplishing it's narrow minded, domestic political tasks. most of the plans that we sent you as a building of a rock that killed a number of civilians with washington.