the, the, [000:00:00;00] the welcome to worlds apart. international politics has never been short of examples of policies producing consequences opposite to the intended or what countries provide are becoming its biggest liability. but rarely has it come together so vividly on massively, as in the guys that conflict is make the world despite old in violence 8 and the rights hostage was old skimming. both to discuss them now and join by saying, mohammed merante, professor of english literature and oriental,

is at the university of to run a media advisor to the uranium ukraine. negotiating to professor miranda, it's good to see you again. thank you very much for time. thank you. very much for having me. now, 1st of all, let me start by asking about the connection in your life between being a professor of english literature and one of the most knowledgeable and r, stipulate observers of international affairs, at least as they presented to iran. does your knowledge of english literature inform your analytical atkin men in any way? i think my background in english literature has called because it gives me a better understanding of american culture and american society, which i think is key to understanding american politics. and also i think a uh,

an understanding of british culture society and history to a lesser degree. the study of oriental is um and the history of the relationship between the west and the non western world is very important and very revealing. and even, i can say that when we look at the war and ukraine, you see strong elements of oriental, this, um, and stereo, typical elements within the narrative of the west that has existed for hundreds of years when it comes to panics and literature in particular, especially in the start countries, they have always been a sort of spiritual, divine domain, not just a mental sadie of tax and fees, but sort of a portal to imagination, a portal to inpatient and a portal through a certain view of the world that does not always seem to materials things,

but also allows of space and was fast for the subtle and often in the visible connection between the balance between all human beings. i wonder if to some extent does do a political battle. the 3 observing in the world between the forces who only see the material, things the forces. cool, perhaps see the world in a slightly more expand this way. in general, the wes, having been the center of power for hundreds of years for much of the world is not almost the whole world. this has created a strong sense of entitlement as both jo, centrist as, um, exceptionalism involved deeply involved. but also, i think the very fact that it's been is going on for so long. there is a sense that the west is we have indeed reached the end of history and the sort of

gabby in you and that the united states is that country which ultimately as a madeline albright one said the united states stands taller and looks further. and therefore, it is essentially superior to the rest of us. we, we are less, are people then lesser states, them the united states. and therefore, when they send back that they sense that they are superior, then they have exceptional rights. and when they do something, which we consider to be evil, they don't consider it to be able at god most i'll say it's a mistake, like any rock by and beating the country and destroying the company, they then baited and destroyed the country. they never said that we did evil at most. so say it was that there was a mistake. now i know that you were born and spoke to your formative for gene,

a chairs and the united face. and then at a certain point of time, you returned to iran, you're also volunteer. it's a 25 and the iran iraq war you were subjected to, to a chemical weapons attack. and i want to ask you, it's a personal question, but i think it's a very valid in this day and age. did you ever have to face a moment the choosing of making a cautious choice of who you are? because you have various identities. you have the very abrupt introduction to the multi faceted nature of the world. did you have to make a conscious choice of where you are and what forces you align yourself with when i was younger than i was in the united states as a, as a child. you could see that, that sense of exceptionalism existed throughout society. and when we moved back to you ron, after the revolution,

as i did increasingly see those red contradiction between what americans were saying to themselves and what was happening outside of the united states. although i was in a politically aware of family, even when we were in the united states. so i was a child. i think that moment probably was when i, i saw the united states using chemical weapons or the west using chemical weapons extensively through us adopt was saying when there was a decision made by the west to give set down for the same the technology to make mustard gas and nerve agents to kill many thousands of innocent people, but also many thousands of bands. i went to the city of culture very soon after the gas attack. and i think maybe 6000 people were killed either the exact number as i've never come out. but um,

but there was no condemnation in the west during that period during that, those years of war when i was a volunteer in the war and i would concert regularly go to the war funds and i would see the atrocities that saddam hussein was counting up with western support, i think that changed things for me in a very big way. now the reason why i'm asking you, because i think this is actually the type of question, the many people around the world not only on individual but also on collective basis have to face now primarily because of the big guys the issue. and it is quite surprising to me that it would be the palestinian issue. that's where the galvanized the soul searching of understand the who you're ultimately are. and what you sent for is a human being or as a nation, because the policy of them is your, has been on results for what the over a 17 years many counted as essentially a historical anachronism. why do you think it proved to be such

a galvanizing force and do you see the recent violence as something decibels essentially passed over time as the anti fathers did before or something that may change things in a more fundamental way? that's a difficult question. i think there are a number of reasons. one is the general klein of the west and the perpetual wars that we've seen over the last 2 decades, which has created so uh, anchor across the world. but also it's created weakness in the west, and therefore the west has less control over at events in other countries, when they have less control over governments, then the recording in these countries across the global south begins to shift that becomes more open and realistic with regards to the behavior of the west. so i think that was important. i think also the war and ukraine made it even

more problematic for the west because a greater gap was created between the west and major powers like russia and even china. so you have this global south gradually moving away from the west and then major powers shifting, especially russia, shifting away from the west as well. and then you have the rise of social media because of the sheer amount of information coming in. it's very difficult for the rest to control the narrative anymore. so what is unique in gaza is that we are now seeing it live. we see it basically a we see the genocide they can face as it happens. and people are shocked to wake up in the morning to see new scenes of, of devastation and death. yet, at the same time, you're watching western officials saying that we shouldn't have

a ceasefire. now is not the time. and that i think is shocking. people across the world and even people in the west coast and they said, i think is it, this is specially important because as i said, when i was young in the united states, americans thought very highly of their country. but now i think among young americans who become dissolution because of the decline of the united states because of the perpetual, the costs and wars and all the things that i've been polluting to plus a lot more. they are now more open to new ideas. and there they are confronting this reality, and at the same time they're seeing that the western media, which is supposed to be open in the symbol of freedom and democracy, they're seeing that the western media is silent. it is not saying what their seats start speaking about and discussing what they're seeing with their own eyes. absolutely. i think the,

the gap between the impulse perception and the actual reality is, is so hard that you know, and those same person can believe. i mean, even if they try for self preservation purposes, if it's very, it's very hard to do that. now, um, as saying people, we have to take a very short break right now to process what we have just discussed with family back in just to couple of minutes. agent the

the, [000:00:00;00] the, [000:00:00;00] the the welcome back to all the parts website. my home,

this my brandy professor of english literature and oriental is at the university of to from of media advisor to uranium new claim, negotiating team that system are under before the break. you describe the trans uh that make the, or the confluence of your band stuff. make the guys a conflict unique. it's no longer possible to turn a blind eye to it. then i'm sure whatever you think of a benjamin netanyahu is rarely a prime minister. he's also pretty cunning and watch for politician. he's been in politics for a long time. he has a team of advisors. sure. so he, he shouldn't be keeping his taps on what's going on. and yet i've heard many experts say that the purpose of how much does raise on october 7th, was to deliberately provoke israel into a disproportionate response, a response that would be beyond the pale. and it seems that these really leadership

deep changes that be my question to you is, do you think that's a failure or judgment on nothing? yeah. as far as a personal mistake or do you think that's a failure of the system? that is these really safe as it exists today. i think it is similar to the problem that exists in the united states and the united states political establishment leaves the bible. they continue to think that they are the most important country in the world by far, that they can see to call up their opponents because they are exceptional because they are destined to be different than god. like i said, that's the most appropriate description of that perception of himself. so israel this way, the machine is very similar. they see themselves as gods chosen people. even those

who are secular and israel somehow are they believe in something which they don't believe exist. paradoxically, or they, they're not religious, but they somehow believe that they are exceptional. that sense of arrogance. and that sense of, uh, uh, exceptionalism in israel, i think, rapes a complacency that is similar to what we try to, to what we see in the united states. and so there's riley's, don't consider the palestinians to be human beings equal to them with capabilities. who can be brilliant. and i think that's what basically destroyed this whole narrative about this invincible is rarely army, or is, is rarely intelligence gathering a, been a, or they've been outsmarted by the palestinians or their defense mechanisms. and the means in which their,

defending their territory and casa shows that the people in come uh, send the stomach. john are very resourceful, very smart, and they're very different from what this riley's imagine them to be. i think the guy that conflict does that make sense? validated in the rain in narrative they, they, or they range in view of the israeli said that it is a s not centric ideological entity that exploits jewish history or jewish search reality for political purposes of zionism. and there are many more people not just sitting around who question whether the, the state of israel, in its current shape or form in which it equates its own right to defend itself to the wholesale destruction of its neighbors. whether it's such a space has the right to exist. what are your thoughts as easy? do you think it would be if it'll get the sort of a broader hearing? yes, i think the,

the greatest it feed that the resume has suffered is not on the battlefield. even though it has lost on the battlefield during these 34 months. but the greater security was actually created by the regime itself by showing so many people by carrying out all these mass that goes by reading this genocide, even empty is rarely young. actually is rarely do is in the united states, are speaking of it as a holocaust. and one of the very important elements, by the way, in this shifting narrative that we're seeing across the world is the fact that many of the key opponents of this genocide and of this really regime are young cubes, especially in the united states. their activism is extraordinary. and they are manufacturing real like ro and then in this struggle for just it's so

i think what this is, randy regime is d, legitimizing itself in the eyes of the international community by the by not only do you mean the palestinian people and presenting them as an inferior themselves human, but also by explicitly speaking about allison and just being sub german and speaking about the intention to carry out genocide. and it is a very significant that the country that went out and came out a complaint to the international community and uh, went to the i see that it was actually south africa of the country. that was also an apartheid regime where a minority ruled over a majority that was presented as a sub human unless human themselves is trying to clear the israel in its current form wouldn't have been able to exist without such central america. american

military and political supports mutual, dickens sought to advance america's own pretty cynical material interest in the region. but our frontier say recently that at this point you believe the america's standing by israel goes against its own court interest. why so? well, the case can be made that during the cold war, israel had benefits to the united states and it was, it was helpful to preserve us domination in west asia, in north africa. best debatable. i. i'm not sure i agree with that, but in any case, over recent decades, there's really which even has become increasingly its existence, spectrum, mental to western interest as i think the best example is the current, the current genocide that we're seeing in gaza. the wes this are not being seen across the world as just simply and as a,

a genocide being carried out by israel. they are seeing this as a western genocide. you're seeing this as a when i do to be knighted steaks lead genocide against the palestinian people. and it is creating enormous panama city across the region and across the across the world. at a time when the united states is increasing tensions with china at a time when there's ad, cuz i'm probably gonna say towards russia, the united states and the europeans can no longer speak about human rights to anyone. they cannot speak about the human rights north korea because as soon as they say a single sentence, everyone will respond and say, we just witness the most horrific crimes being committed on our cell phone. i don't think they said it shouldn't even give credence to american ad or incest about the human rights. because, i mean, it's not just the, the recent developments. i mean that you, yourself mentioned the iran iraq war and the use of chemical weapons against

civilian sir. it's a, i think, any way we are sort of supporting this american launch of the base supposedly care when, if you look at the how they conduct their voice, it's like it's playing for anyone to draw conclusions. now, i want to ask you about this type of richard. want to add something though, is that, is that you're absolutely correct. the americans created crisis. americans going to be the, the, the, the less we can go on for hours. but the point is for that on a certain i'm, an awareness has been created today by what has been done in gaza with regards to the west that is unprecedented. and the west is seen by everyone as carrying out this genocide. so israel to is so selfish interest is not just destroying israel is not only destroying the so called legitimacy as well in the eyes of the world. but it's destroying the, the whole of the western project,

the whole of the notion of western civilization and somehow western civilization being exceptional, or the greatest civilization. now people are looking down at the, where they're saying that you are the cause of misery. and then all those of the crimes that you alluded to, people are only waking up to that as well. they're doing research and then discovering, yeah, mean they're discovering the rock, they're discovering chemical weapons or discovering what happened in latin america . because once a country or a regime has been exposed, then people who are working actively against its policies start learning about other things that, that regime or those to the group, those groups of countries i've been doing. now can i bring us back to your point that on the americans have been essentially put into a position where they don't want to be? i mean, they have to be there because of the previous pronouncements, but they really hate being there. are there any other actors apart from israel?

that's what one that kept the united states in the region wasting is resources wasting is credibility, but still being there in this sort of suspended position and when they cannot leave and they cannot do anything effectively. that is a very good question because on the one hand, the resistance across the region, once a ceasefire, everyone wants an immediate cease fire and gaza. but at the same time, the fact that this war continues, we see that it's only hurting it, is hurting this rain the regime and his allies are more than anyone else. so as a sort of paradox, a cool situation be what everyone wants toward the end. but the side that insist that the war continue meaning the united states israel and some western countries

that are aligned to it as they are undermining themselves. because they are cementing patriot towards the united states every day that goes by only makes this a new world order for this multi color world that everyone has been talking about become more important in the eyes of the world. the global south increasingly looks for ways to realign themselves. public opinion becomes more assertive in opposing the west and visual pros. we cried going to china twice in the past 3 months and before the war, the chinese were ambivalent about as well. perhaps most chinese had positive views of israel. now it's almost a universal that the chinese look down upon israel. they see it as barbaric they see it as in humane. so the world has changed. now there's one more, very cynical question. i want to ask you,

this is about the situation in the red sea with the i, i talked to basically the forces and it is one thing everybody has discussed that the united states can do. uh, pretty little about that. they sometimes they, with all that might, that have not been able to contain them. but i think there's another overlooked. imagine it is that the situation added another group of stakeholders to this whole conflict, not only conscientious people of the world who can be very distressed about the suffering of the people in garza, but in realistic terms can do very little about it too. but they're also the 1000000 owners and billy interest with an interest in uh, it's a national shipping and trans border manufacturing and global trade. who are losing money. because of that, there's also large constituencies in the west who with price is going up and people not being able to sell or to get the goods on time. do you think this financial interest of their measure?

it then in many, many zero's do things they're influential enough to move politics around this issue . i don't think then future countries across the global south. we'll be looking to israel for high tech products because it sort of has failed in gaza with regards to intelligence gap. and they won't be looking to israel for weapons because as well has failed. again, small groups and many countries like china, they won't be investing in as ro anymore because they don't see it as a safe place for investment. when you see, and this is, it's very, it's, it's, it's sort of quite a justice that the united states and europe tends. canada, france, germany, britain. they helped carry out the genocide examine for a decade. and they use the red sea to create to impose of starvation cj. and now it

is, yeah, me to this country that has been peace and batter. that is staffing firm in saying that we will not allow you to carry out this genocide. we will block a this port in the americans and the west can't do anything about it. if the united states and the west side be shaved more only towards non western countries, if they are treated countries with respect, you wouldn't have the situation. but now with yeah, man is being step standing step past against the rest and human being so point in congress. imagine how butterball the united states is elsewhere in the world. and now the united states is contemplating a major care campaign against the rocky resistance of a resistance that's supposed to be us illegal occupation in syria and iraq, and their support for isis and their support for israel. so once this air campaign happens is america or the americans are going to wait any rock? i'm sure. no, they're only going to make it worse for themselves because they're going to make

the resistance any rocket, more popular. they are going to respond to the americans and ever so they'll show the world that the americans are not as strong as they claim to be. and this sends messages across the world. people across the world are saying, well, then this super power or what we, what we want someone wants called a hyper power is not really a whole that strong. so business people re seeking solutions for their own interest . the world will be seeing the united states as much weaker than it claims to be. professor miranda, unfortunately, we have to wrap it up or be out of time, but it's been always a good, as always a great pleasure and great honor for me to talk to. thank you very much for your time. your big fine. thank you very much. and thank you for watching hope to share

again on the walls apart the, [000:00:00;00] the, [000:00:00;00] the take a fresh look around. there's a life kaleidoscopic, isn't just a shifted reality distortion by power type vision with no real opinions.

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