the, the russia did not start this war, it came to put an end to it. all the cube authorities had to do with respect to people's rights. and russia says lesser nations have selected to blindness. i'm from this during the un general assembly because the building, gravitas, on the eve of the c. m a versus a citizen contract. denise claim, the gap washington, i'm brussels, impose a new wave of science. so not only on most of the board on individuals and entities around the world, and it is raining, can i send files out a photo and the public support of a south african genocide pace against the country here from the center of it. the old to highlights how roommates is ton of mine. the are the subsidies taking place

in the vast majority. i'm only the 120 members of the class. it's it just, it'll tell them it's in the polls. oh, even finds a just change of what's going on in gossip and then it's easy it spring forward for me as a human being does all the link to the headlines for an outlet storing? don't curiosity on the width of those will leave after the sample the out by from the every generation has a journalist to whom most people can point as being transformative in world events . here in the united states, we still talk about bob woodward and carl bernstein, who broke the news of the watergate scandal which led to the resignation of president richard nixon. robert parry broke the story of the wrong contrast there

and see more hearse told the world about the b line massacre during the vietnam war . well, there's another giant of journalism who died recently, and today we're going to remember his life. i am john to reaku. welcome to the whistle blowers the . 2 2 2 2 2 john killed your was an australian journalist, writer scholar and documentary filmmaker. he was a student of us, british in australian foreign policy, which he considered to be driven by expansionist agendas. pills you had a very long career in journalism 1st as a reporter. then as an editor and all the while, as a filmmaker, he produced more than 50 documentaries, many of which were highly awarded, including one with the best of the british version of the academy awards. pilcher became a household name and the 1970s when he secretly entered cambodia in the aftermath

of the overthrow of pol pot and broke the story of the cambodian genocide, which became known as the killing fields. those stories and the accolades that went with them. we're just the beginning for john pilcher. he became a frequent consultant for television news programs on the events of the day. his books became international best sellers and he spent in years as a friend, colleague and advisor to would give weeks co founder julian assange. today we will celebrate the life of john pilcher with 2 friends and former colleagues were joining 1st by jo loria. he's the editor in chief of consortium news founded by the late robert perry. and he's a former journalist for the boston globe. the wall street journal. and the times of london. joe, thanks so much for being with us. no problem, john. going to see joe, let's start with your own personal experience with john pilcher. the 2 of you were a long time friends where and how did you meet and when did you begin working

together on issues like wiki, leaks? i've known john for about 60. i knew of his work, of course, for many years, for decades and stream a big admire like so many millions of people and i got to know him. when i became a direct consort, he moved back in 2018. so about 6 years ago he knew bob, harry, he was on the committee of the month of gal horn award, about the one that award. so they and he really appreciated what about did and what can showed him is was and when i became editor i invited him to become a board member, which he did. and then i began interviewing with him on our webcast several times and i met with him several times in uh, in sydney. well, i was there, we met at various occasions. we actually 1st time we met in person was at a, an event for julian, a sons' we bought, spoke and an outdoor event in martin place in sydney. and i had dinner with him at

a rolling club in sydney. john was a fanatical, a fan of rowing. he grew up and was a roller. and the long term growing clouds. that's where his reception for his funeral on tuesday was here in london at the thames rowing club, so that he was an extraordinary man. he made it look easy, he made it look easy, john and i can tell you as if i took practitioner of the same profession, it is not easy to why he did it. i think so many great things that could be said about him, but one of the most important things for me is how he connected the decisions of what he called impeccable politicians in london and brussels in washington and the suffering that their decisions caused it mostly poor countries in developing world, john pilcher had a huge impact on the way the world saw the genocide in cambodia. he produced a documentary after his investigative work there called year 0. the silent death of cambodia. that film was shown in schools all across the u. k. and viewers

spontaneously donated some $45000000.00 and solicited to help rebuild cambodia after watching that film tell us about the work that he did there. and about the results of that work in cambodia and abroad. his most important film, probably up to 60 films that he made was about can body the 1st when i came body your 0, which the british film institute as name one of the greatest, talking some documentaries of the 20th century. and it certainly isn't. there is a section in there where he looks into the camera and, and says that it says that very thing that the decisions of these uh oh yeah he's, he's showing children. cambodian children suffering is just a heart wrenching film to see this was right after the camera rouge had been driven out by the vietnamese who intervened to stop the cambodian genocide, the only real evidence or example of responsibility to protect that. i know if they

actually did that, the v and amazing, intervene for that reason to stop the killing of the kid. my roof backed by the united states and britain. and i guess what, they were opposed to the vietnam. he's doing that. and john looks in the camera with these children dying. it's hard to look at. and he says, these children are at the end of a process, begun by impracticable politicians who took data such as a great distance from the results of this savagery. the style may have been different from poll part, but the effect has the same bombs alike following rain, wrote a child in 1973 a year in which the tonnage of bomb dropped on cambodia exceeded by half. the entire tonnage dropped on japan in world war 2. the price of a cambodian life was incidentally a $100.00 compensation. and any quotes of british journals who says that print sienna, he said that the 2 men most responsive for the tragedy in cambodia today arm and as 1979 late seventy's or mister nixon and doctor kissinger,

expanding the warrant to my country. they killed a lot of americans and many other people and they treated and they, sorry they created that came a roof. so this is to me, the essence of jump feel just work is that he did not leave alone. the decisions of the leaders of the west and the normal suffering that they caused, that the corporate media establish meaning that he was a part of studiously worked to cover up to break that link between the decisions of the west and leaders and the suffering on the ground junk pills or seem to have something of a soft spot for the little guy for the oppressed, for the downtrodden. we saw that in cambodia, but he was also outspoken in his support and activism for us really as indigenous people. he long criticized australia as government for its treatment of the country's indigenous people, which he compared to south africa's apartheid system. and he specifically criticized australia as quote,

the only developed country whose government has been condemned as racist by the united nations committee on the elimination of racial discrimination and quote, what impacted his work have on the rights of native australians. well, that's a good question. i think he surely was part of a movement as he described in his book, a secret country where there was something really that was similar to what happened in the united states with the american indian movement where it became a front and center issue. again, there's never been a treaty between australia and any of the indigenous people. i liked the treaties of the us had and broke it. so many native tribes as they started to organize and they had a voice, there weren't changes in government uh, government changes that helped give them more rights and i think jump till jump slate and instrumental role and public pressure that was brought on the government to make those changes, and i think he needs to be applauded for about his, from utopia, about indigenous is just extraordinary. and it points out what

a great interview he was. you know, i'm, i make the argument that his greatness a lot of his greatness just because of the cowardice and the laziness of his contemporaries. he just did his job as a reporter and they, they did their job of supporting what the rules of the west wants wanted the people to know. and john pilcher, when he sat down with a c, i a operative and he presented with the facts of the suffering that celia and causes. and you have to verify what was going around on twitter again after john died. and, and he also set down with a government official in, in australia where they found, we found that they had lie. the government fruits had lied about rates by a bridge, any man in a certain town. and he exposed that and he was able to confront as a person, has done many andrews myself. that is the hard it seem to be to do for me anyway, when you get the evidence, i guess a room door and then you present and you confront them with it and they're going to

be very odd, smiled to you and he was very calm. the way he presented that not only did he stand up for the rights of, of originates in australia but also a working class. the people in australia and in england in 1971. he did a film uh for i tv. it's called conversations with a working man, and he followed the life of it's a, it's a half, it's a, i think it's a 45 minute film about this guy, john walker. and he works in a di factory and i'm believe will be horrible conditions and he's involved in the union and morning wanting to strike. and john really reveals how awful the life of a working class man was backed in 1971. and when i gave a speech in front of the new york, uh, the concert bridge, consulate in new york and assigned rally, i blamed britain for being a co participant with united states in the imperial adventures. they aren't the portal that most people think they are. john wrote me an

e mails praising my speech which tells you that is really something to get an email from tom pilcher, appraising your work and then you, i told him that i had just seen this film. and he said he was one of his favorite films and we discussed whether this man might still be alive. and while i'm in britain, i'm going to go and try to find him or his defendants, people in that town in yorkshire, a as a way to see, well, how would impact jump children had there. so john was the oh way ahead of the game and criticizing neal liberal policies of patrick. he wrote about 5 of the stories in the new york times in the early 19 eighties period went stature to go over. and that was his theme. what's coming to want to destroy the lives of many working people and the, this is, this is the wrong way to go. and of course, this was just one that was getting started. and i wanna mention of the new york times that publish those articles. they didn't write one word about john pilcher in terms of an obituary and this just shows you how the main stream really marginalized, john pilcher, and really, as he said, he had

a space in growing up in the mainstream media as a reporter with the daily mirror and he was all over the world reporting, and then he made those for, and he had an extraordinary period where they, but there was a jump total was allowed to work within the main stream. and then it closed down. and he was driven out. guardian got rid of him, the new states and got rid of him. and he started writing for independent media like consorting moves. and he really liked consorting moves and that really made me happy too. he said it was like reading a real newspaper, the kind of newspaper that he knew and he wrote for growing up. john often put himself in danger when chasing a story. one thing that many people don't know, including many who have followed his work, is that he actually snuck into east timor during the brutal indonesian occupation of that country and shot a documentary called death of a nation. the timor conspiracy. that documentary was so well received, that it contributed to an international outcry that eventually led to the

withdrawal of indonesia from east timor and to the countries independence. but the australian foreign minister at the time, garrath evans condemned john saying quotes, culture has a track, record of distorted sensationalism, mixed with sanctimony and quote. that statement is interesting to me because it doesn't deny a single thing that john culture said in the documentary. so why were so many insiders and government officials, so anti pills or what was it that they were so afraid of to the truth? the truth about what they were doing. and john went and found it, and it wasn't easy, but he did it and that's what he was after. and he would sneak into a country like that. he would go to camp already right after the king. my roof left, he was there on the ground. he showed the people and the suffering, and then he confronted, as i said, the government officials, they don't want journal this like that. they don't want journalists, you know,

the word courageous should never be put in front of the journalist of journals for really doing their job. but if there's 2 journalists in the last half century that have deserved that course, it's john killed you and his good friend julian sondra, which he's a great, great, was a great defender and a great friend off. and john ad truly is really lost. and another friend after losing daniel ellsberg last year. so john pilcher did what western governments pretend journalism journal a should do. they say they defend freedom of the press, but never want them to really do because when they really do, they start to condemn them. that'd be classified. you carry out a piece of the day about certain documents that are going to be classified british government documents that showed the jump told you were certainly on their radar and they weren't. they were upset with him. they didn't like what he was doing and they want to do whatever they can and how you're going to put junk folder in jail. right. so they've got julia saunders in jail now. you couldn't put pilcher in jail,

but you can get them fired or blackballed. and blacklisted away from the mainstream, he was a star report, a growing up at the mirror and he and in cinema and on television. and they found a way to silence him. and i was happy that the consortium is one of the outlets that he was able to continue to credibly put forward work right up until the last stage. jo, laurie, a journalist and editor. thank you so much for being with us today. we appreciate you coming on the show and talking about your friend and your former colleague john pelzer. you're welcome john. to talk to you. and we're going to take a short break and when we come back, we'll discuss john hill. just work on behalf of wiki leaks, and julian assigns with another of his friends. randy critical. don't go away the

the, the welcome back to the list of lawyers and john to reaku. we're happy to be joined by randy credit. co. randy is a long time comedian and social justice activist. he's a former director of the william and counsellor fund for social justice and the

host of the radio show live on the fly, which airs every friday afternoon from 3 to 4 pm on new york's w. b. a i radio, we're speaking about the green john pills or the australian journalist editor, author and filmmaker who passed away in december 2023. randy, thanks so much for being with us. hey, it's great to be back. it's always great to be on with you. john. thank you for inviting me once again. randy, i only got to know john told her late in his life and in the context of his support for julian assigned jen for wiki leaks. tell us about the relationship between culture and assigned. how did they become acquainted? and was john a week a week supporter from the beginning? yes, i was totally amazed, mesmerized by the revolutionary journalistic work of julia. besides, go away back. i think before 2010, i've been review them 30 times over the last 8 years and he goes way back. he gave

a julian to 2010 the for stages martha gal horn award. even though it's, there's no video of it, but he's talked about it many times. she was very close friends with the germans, martha gal horn. and he was like the main person that ran the gal horn institute or whatever organization it's called in to gave out this prestigious award. i think one of the last times was when i saw you, they gave it to robert perry. so it's rarely given out, but julian, he met way back then, and they became great friends. he visited them many times. once he was ensconced inside the ecuadorian embassy and was really uh, was such an enthusiastic supporter and then defender a guy hard supporter and defender and up until his dying breath. you know,

i had my last email was on october, october 17th, i think. and uh, it was saying that a, you know, gotta keep binding, keep finding me, keep trying. and he did. so it really spanned a long period of time, you know, over a decade, 14 years, neighbor french, one of the very consistent criticisms that pilcher had over the last decade and a half of his life was that the media in general either were not supporters of assange and wiki leaks, or were actively hostile to assigned and wiki leeks. despite the fact that they regularly used information revealed by wiki leaks and they're reporting. what was the response among media people to those accusations, or did they ever respond to him? i don't think they responded. you know, people that the guardian didn't respond people, it shouldn't be seated on or whatever. i mean, she wouldn't do shows. uh they one year tail on every developer wanted me to get

him on the show and he refused to have anything to do with that because he thought they were all seriously complicit in this, this persecution of discharge. and either by omission or like direct action with their journalism, sure they exploited is work for financial reasons, but did not defend him. and so john was, uh, was like, the 2nd by the hypocrisy, but not surprised because, you know, he called the big lie, whitker b would say, what they're doing right now is what gerbils called the big wide. and you know, john was one of the few people that for 6 decades was able to operate people in a commercial. uh, yeah. institution like itc. even the guardian in 2014, he was writing, were making these films. and you know, all those programs he did in all of the awards and he won

a but still his conscience guided his work and his great body of work. it's empty. it's a british library ensconced there. he's 62. the films of this man was the most productive and the most honest and serious journalist of my lifetime. and that's over 6 decades in there, in the united states pills record at some controversy back in 2016 in 2000. and 17, when he said in speeches that donald trump was less dangerous than hillary clinton was. he said that trump was more pragmatic. and was not beholden to the anti russia, anti china, pro israel forces that are seen to run u. s. foreign policy culture was criticized for throwing his lot in with trump, who was more conventionally right wing than clinton was. tell us about that. we looked at the record of the bill, clinton, the record of obama,

a record of l. b. j. a many, you know, the democrats have been the war party and the republicans too, but he was right about a trump supporter. but he was right in saying that that, that trump was less dangerous on, on an international level, then maybe a domestic level. you may be different. but on an international level, he felt was standing trumps support. uh, you know, the support of israel moving the embassy to jerusalem. but over all in 2016 he was, you know, and i was like 1st kind of shocked by that when i saw it. but the alternative was hillary clinton, who, i mean, take a look at her. he looked at what she did in hundreds with uh, you know, uh, i forgot her name birth uh, birth uh, uh, the labor leader. she was murdered the killers of all that crew, libya, syria,

and she was surrounded by a secretary of state and she was gonna bring them into the old office, victoria, no one, jake sullivan and tony blinking types. so he know that the, that she was a real con, were truck is not a neil con, which has international implications. so for a person that lives all the other side of the planet, yes, trump, it was much lesser than the 2 e. bullshit. that's how you would describe them, but certainly not a stretch guy was going to break up now, you know, you know, imagine if nickel has really been broken up, we wouldn't have the situation that's going on in ukraine today. so, you know, going back to bill clinton, the bombing of yugoslavia, and they don't really needs to be abolished. and the trump, uh, you know, was an anti nato individual. and so that's where john picked it up for australia and sent for people on china. and people in africa and the mid east trump was less

dangerous. he was right. so he had a stake in that election and hillary clinton was not the one that he thought would be beneficial to the world. john pilcher had a long life and a long and respected career. give us your thoughts on his legacy and on those people in issues that he inspired. well, you know, it's very difficult to sum up i've. i've done a 3 already tribute to john pilcher and one was 2 hours now. there's an hour piece on that, mike done? yeah, i mean the legacy we're talking about the we're talking about the beethoven of journalism, the, the einstein of journalism, the bill cuts john brown, a journalist, then he's, he was definitely a, a long uh, what you would call me a little call the brown, a mediator i mean that there was the 6 decade so work plus he started, he was 19, he didn't quit, was 84 when he died and no one compiled anything like john pilcher and no one

ever. we're talking about 62 brilliant films, hundreds of interviews, and he did a hundreds of thousands of articles and 20 books. i'm a big guy has a, it's the white house of are the library of alexandria, a type of material that john pills, his legacy left behind. and i, i just don't see anyone close to him in terms of their production as a journalist, as a war correspondent, guy, the war correspondent as well. uh, and as a, as a filmmaker in a me buying as most of the films himself raising the money. and it was all for causes that were important rented be nicaragua in the eighty's, whether it be in the nation, in the sixty's as to whether it be a viet nam who was there. and 19 seventies, a quiet knew me and then it was and he was in a pass

a palace died many times into the tube is 2 of his documentaries, palestine is still the issue. and then camp bodya. he went to cambodia 4 or 5 times the 4 or 5 documentaries on indigenous april of uh, australia the port a jack one of the type of but stories about the or, and the uh on wanted in, in the london and the in prisons in london. i mean, i enjoyed assigned you, of course he was the meals all the for drivers, but for assigns that same type of ashen that and stick to it to minutes that never waned all the way through. he was, even though he was in bad health, and i got emails from him over the last year that i'm looking at the pneumonia at one time, but he was still taking all of that energy to try to save asides. they'll never be

any one like john field. you're. i've loved the guy and i get emotional thinking about it. i had a great friendship with them. i spent the day at his house logged in the 2017. when they saw us on june. the may, he always make you have a great sense of humor and a appreciative sense of humor. indeed, always talk about the bad coffee that he may, buddy into the guy was so humane and he loved nature. he had to call it is a i forgot what he called it but in the backyard it. ready his house is quite house in london, and yet this huge gardener's pride and joy is what he called it. a john killenger was a real sure man to terry and. and he hated oppression as much as john brown empty. and he worked with his pin to try to stop wherever reared its ugly head. so i, you know, there's not enough words. there's not enough time to really describe john pillage. it's one of those things. so it's a like a civil war series. by ken burns,

you'd have to do on john pilcher and the work that he accomplished. randy credit goes, thank you so much for coming on with us today. appreciate that. the author kilroy oldster once wrote, that the greatest challenge in life is to be our own person and to accept that being different is a blessing and not a curse. a person who knows who they are, lives a simple life, by eliminating from their orbits. anything that is not align with his or her overriding purpose in values. john pilcher was the proverbial light by which others could see his honest the dedication and hard work for what gave him such deep significance. i'd like to thank our guests, jo loria and randy critical for joining us today and for sharing their thoughts and reminiscences of their friend john pilcher. and thanks to our viewers for joining us for another episode of the whistle blowers, i'm john kerry onto we'll see you next time the. 2 2

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