is a different thoughts of different kinds come together to make the one a better place and that things are there despite of me to come here as one of one of the things i have so far lack of. well, the 1st of all is the fact that they have so many kind of thing is it's cation charging history technology. the forensic technology is and also the frontier and supports us with which is my but my profession at same time, i think is what it is. it's one of the best ways to make a to contest, to come together. you know, i, i would love somebody allowing people to come here. i loved the russian people to come. i counted us with adults kind of with the things that are going together to make it a struggle issue. because of my we all those assume police you back into days in some us and we will somebody together, somebody in on and rush it was together, our current president passed that even russia. now what i mean is subbing for has already started russia. so i'm also walking into air bullets filled by the soviet union. so the footprint of russia and back in today's speed x is the in my home countries. and we would love to see that again one more time. why that's the update

this. our next is class talk and i'll see you against another top of the of the the hello and welcome to prospect bullhorn john peter labelle. here we just got some real news, or nato countries foolish enough to send troops, you crane, don't put it past them. also, should russian now considered germany to be beneficial enemy to discuss these issues a more i'm joined by my guess door to send me well in budapest, he's a pod cast or at the goggle, which can be found on youtube and locals. and in merrill cash,

we have martin j e is an award winning journalist and commentator. i gentleman costs up rules and the fact that means he can jump any time you want that. i always appreciate it. all right, let's get off with george in budapest, george, you know you to all 3 of us and our viewers have covered the well checkered career of the french president to manual. i'm a chrome, it's very difficult to discern what he actually means about anything, particularly when it comes to foreign policy. and the last few new cycles, he came out and essentially said, sending troops, meaning french troops. in this case, it is not out of the question and to ukraine, of course is counterparts all through europe quickly disagreed with them, particularly the german chancellor, sergeant schultz. but we'll get to him later in the program here. what do you make of this? cuz i'm titling this program, a son could some file a see cuz that's where we seem to be getting into. they've invested so much into this project. they're having a very difficult time seeing their way through or to or maybe even out of it. your

thoughts, george? well, data, that's an excellent summary because i think that's what's really behind this. that um they chose the idea of pool long has been to continue to double down on what it has done before. it gets a bit hesitant. there's no plans for ending this uh are booked up, so the project. and so you know, they can, they moved and we've seen this path now for over 2 years lately. let's say, well, let's send this so i some time. so like, i well know it was and more advanced things were yeah. what about the cluster, munitions 1st, all? not only of us that the competitor to escalate take. okay, well it's 10 plus the munitions, you know, let's and depleted uranium shows and they've been doing this for a long now. it's f sixteens, you know? oh yeah, we got to be on the train them on the ups explains all the page. good miss are they are going to do that and below and you said, well,

we're just doubling down and that, and there's never any plan to extricate themselves. so now they mean nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing has worked sofa. so right, well look, look this the, the next stage game as well as introduce um, uh, forces to it right away. all right, let's do that. absolutely. i, i read you some of the 1st think wow yeah. what do we already mean? so you don't mind for those, you know, helping now middle medical, you know, just to do some supply logistical stuff, not the again, the case would be enough. advisors advises yeah, yeah, yeah. now the things there is, but we know the way they they operate is that yeah, they gonna escalate to the next step. and my problem, in fact, blood at this hour when he said, hey, you remember at the time when we said we're not sending anything more than a 100 seats in the pillow cases, well, you know, and we've, we've gotten a long way from that. so i think we have to take this very seriously. i don't think it's a game, a very dangerous escalation mountain. georgia is absolutely right. i mean, on the face of it, it sounds absurd. but given the track record of the last 2 years,

maybe even going back 10 years would be, think about it. this seems very possible. what's interesting that what george described is that the, the project is to, to we can rush it. they just didn't fill in the spots on how to actually do that because what they're doing instead of weakening rush at the destroying ukraine and their reputations and their own domestic economies. martin. yeah, and the last point, the domestic economies i think is key that that's really the, the suicide pill. no one seems to realize this happening slowly, but very ms. bennett, ms. nicholas effectively. i think too much on the whole mat from the box and the last week or so when he made the statement, i think is quite extraordinary for a number of reasons. but it's, there's definitely been a, an internal debate within nato countries. and he is certainly fighting majority of them off with this idea of nato troops. but is there a plan b o plan caesar

a compromise of crime? is it, could it be most summary is, could it be phone fights is um, could it be more um, troops, so just to see where in the various uniforms. so under various guises and that's almost certainly a possibility which i think it must be. it must be being kicked around now because only its own ministry. experts agree, the ukraine's real problem from the ministry. sex perspective is numbers of troops have been talking about rockets and tanks all day long, but really the fundamentals all they haven't got the numbers on the battlefield, infantry wise. so for macro, the site is very interesting. but, and then also, i think mac chrome is very polemic, very media savvy guy. i mean, i think, to say those little comments, and to bring 20 member states around the table, which you did very recently. i think that's what part of his big a plan to project himself as an independent you may. so what she's

trying to develop at the moment, you know, i'm learning this and kind of, i think it and when i hang on i know, hang on telling somebody is having some success at the end that he's getting the attention of everybody. and he is getting his paper on the table whether it will actually happen or not. you know, we, we, we, we don't know, but this idea of, you know, a new, an, a european that's a pillar on him running it, i think is gaining ground. the thing is getting momentum controlled to judge. you jump in there. i mean, i'm being media savvy, a getting attention. that's not a policy george, he really isn't the policy. um, but i think that's what he is probably getting the green light from the americans because they're getting when, when we think about this as a weather balloon. yeah. it's a good hope. it doesn't get shut down. yeah. literally. yeah. um, but that would be an easy, it's all just a matter of well let's move on to the you know, this list. i don't know,

but this i did before a few yards. i mean, is there's no, no one has ever really denied for some time with their own nature forces present in ukraine. i mean, we've known this one of the various leak slip that came out last year. and we, even though even from sergeant schultz, is comment on the body of this week, which again, no one denied you, said that there are, you know, essentially the british and the french have forces left. so then if he for that is no one is really denying that winded by chrome. bring this forward as if this was some new idea. well, obviously they want to do something additional. what i, i think what he's trying to do is to put in some serious forces not with a view to fighting a robust. it doesn't want to get involved in a, in a combat operations. but i think to shore up ukrainian morale and these are, hey, what we've got a forces. don't worry. uh, you know, we, we've got your back and we're here for you because i think that that's really what

they're trying to do. they're trying to lately, trying to make sure ukraine doesn't collapse. and i think he, he said a thing later on in the week that, well, if we have a french full nature of forces that, that should act as a deterrent. it's a rush or that's on how did there, i saw clear what do you mean, how that would act as a deter and why the, why if they're, they're helping with the fighting, why is it russia would hesitate to kill them? but nevertheless, the thing will let the bits of the tear. and so it by saying is that the tyrant of this, again, is a way of boosting ukraine's moran. i think of the way that you need to use the term ambiguity. but i mean, i think you've already hit upon it, george, i mean, it wouldn't be ambiguous to russia. ok. so again, this is a very quick and it's, i don't know if it's intentionally not well thought out. maybe that is the intention here. but, you know, martin, it seems to me this is also stage of panic. i mean, everything else they've tried has and work. so the more they panic, the more they escalate. i think that's

a fair statement. martin. i was going to say that was exactly what i was going to say. it is another stage of panic. and um, you know, the, the idea that nicer can even be, can contemplative. now boots on the ground, a new train is a level of desperation. and uh, anyway, uh, we are entering a new phase now in the will where the west, as i think, acknowledged that it is losing the war, new friends, losing the will and it needs to be a new strategy. now do you, do you strategize your gentle and gradual retreats and build a huge pale campaign around to make yourself look as though you're actually the window where you are the loser? as we've seen in history many times, the west have done this. you know, vietnam is good, very good example, but um, you know, where, where is this leading now i think, i think it's, it's, it's, we're, we're reaching a point now where the options become much more binary. and the escalation level becomes much more intense and puts in the russia connell to sustain this

provocation for indefinitely. there has to be a breaking point. and i think that a lot of the troops that we know that are in ukraine all the probably for the wrong reasons, a lot of spooks, it's about training the infantry, the don't find to, in the case of british i know from my and i do so this is a lot of them of the just to keep an eye on my, on the kids. because so much of this kids being next and re sold that, you know, you know, it was the see i have direct, so this last year fluid and just to say, does that so landscape look, you know, i know, you know, it's ukraine. i know you, one of the most corrupt comes in the world and i know i taught understand the color shingles that but can you just not steal quite so much? yeah, i think some of the is going on with british s s o does. they're actually there to keep an eye on the equipment, but to them where to own it. so. yeah, well, i think that's baked in here. um, you know, george. um, okay, so let, let's, let's ti, this up, um, nato. maybe on a bilateral bank. so, you know,

the brand sheet of the polls, you know, bilaterally they go to ukraine, that's the fig leaf. you know, that's not nato. it is a friendly country. okay. so what happens if they become engaged, maybe not willingly, but in, in, in um, hostilities and they get killed. so what does nato are individual countries? what's their next escalation? because of the way it's set up is that they wouldn't dare to do it. well, they will do it. so then what do you do when you have in these nato countries brought them so involved themselves directly into hostilities and there are council these. what's the going to be the reaction i think is it's an excellent question. i think even though i, it is hard to know what the answer to that is that because it really is just and just as you saying that the assumption is, well, russia wouldn't that and it's bull is that the way native is, continues the step by step escalation,

it has been on only the basis of thinking that russia is afraid of taking on later . the roughly just will not take us on rushes knows we have much stronger than they are. they did, they, they gonna keep away from getting it in, gauged in the fighting. i think it was, but what do you think? don't what, what does it do then? um and, and, and they just simply had no answer to that because, but the alternative would be, well they, are they gonna have to stop the, you know, shoot or fighting the russians themselves. the problem with that is that of course, there was absolutely no public support for it. i mean that that's a problem and they, they, in the beginning, step by step of getting involved in a war without actually securing any kind of what we, real quick before we go to the right martin. i mean, if, let's, let's say france wants to send troops, do you think french troops would actually go? it does, it does a bit is knowledge as to whether they would go where they would fight. so, i mean, i was in brussels in 2000, and there was

a skirmish on the charge border and the french troops was sent. there was a long brands, and it was hilarious. it was a joke. the moment the local rebel is still a fine, we live rounds of the may scar, put and complained to the with the answers. why point gentleman who have to jump in here at the jumping in. we have to go to a break. and after that break, we'll continue our discussion on some real new stay with our to the acceptance. and i'm going to plan with you whatever you do. do not watch my new shells. seriously. why watch something that's so different by little opinions that he won't get anywhere else? what can i please or do you have the state department c, i a weapons, bankers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead. i changed

and whatever you do, don't want my show stay main street because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called stretching time, but again, you probably don't want to watch it because it might just change the way inside the the welcome back to across that barnes on

peter level to remind you were discussing some real news. okay, george, that's it. switch. some gears like i, i mentioned sergeant schultz just briefly in the 1st part of the program. obviously in the context of disagreeing publicly with president mac round about sending nato troops to ukraine. but a lot more is going on in the it with the germany than just his reaction to mccall . and it's been released by r t. the. the editor in chief agreed to someone young age of a transcript and later a recording of um, well why don't you t it up for as george? because it's very interesting considering we're not involved in the war. but george . yeah, so, so what was release was an audio and a transcript of a conversation among basically german top brass, german chiefs of the little floflead. i'm discussing the transfer all of the tourist mr. how's through ukraine? now sergeant shoals as ruled out of sending the tourist miss awesome. the,

the reason he gave was what we discussed in the, the 1st opposite. well, that would mean sending the german soldiers to ukraine, helping the ukrainians target the targets in russia. we didn't, but as of the british of french doing, we, germans, and i'm going to go down that path. so now these, uh, these, the select the jump into abrazzo is talking about that and talking about target to in your particularly talk about the targeting of the crime in bridge. and then they, it was adult about the targeting is, where is a m, o, d pose. now, it is not clear exactly from the conversation whether this is they are planning this and they just going to ignore sergeant schultz altogether, or whether schultz has actually already tacitly signed onto the scene of the country to what he said. he may say in public. but it's a very serious business because they off talking about targeting the brandy and

bridge and they're talking about helping the ukrainians because it is a quite a sophisticated operation using these stories myself and, and talking about plausible deniability. while that we make sure that we are, we are involved, but as far as the world is concerned, we're not able. so we're not about the till the come today. and then it goes, we go back to something we've talked about before. there it was in the 2 plus 4 agreement. signed is september, the 12th 1990. henceforth, only piece will emanate from german style. and it really is become quite disgusting and quite outrages that we are putting up with this. the german, these flagrantly violating the commitments in paid in 1990 the only the condition for the well signing off of german reunification is that you've never, never again, will it be involved in waging looks good. he's been doing this in ukraine and again, you know, in nature when no one really brings us up. but you know,

all the other countries we do should this with this, this cannot go on the kind of the, well, you know, george, i was just thinking maybe in a, in a bad about the 4 minutes or so. it doesn't apply to me because i wasn't born then . okay. i mean, you know, i don't know what her rationale is here. but you know, i'm a martin. i mean, you know, again, this is really huge credibility gap. and i think of sergeant schultz, germany has no idea of who blew up the north stream pipeline. and, and of course, we're not directly involved in the war. and you, great, i mean, what do you believe from these people? i don't believe anything. they have to say, okay, whatsoever, and also this is an intentional lead coming. this didn't come out of nowhere are so, i mean, the russians are, are saying, you know, high in my opinion, at least as we, we know exactly what you're doing and we can tell to read, okay. and i know that you can speak and say, do not speak straight or not. i mean, this is almost kind of be a reality check. go ahead ma'am. yeah. you said you said it was an intentional leak . i. i know i'm not so sure about we will have to wait and see where the bluff is

being played or whether this is genuine. what the germans haven't denied the authenticity so far. yeah. yeah, but does this the timing of it? i'm how does it get leaks out? um, you know, it's, it's no secret. german intelligence is a bit of a joke. it was always has been. i mean there are reports in the 2nd level of, i'm pretty spies in london. just literally going into pups and arresting german double agents because the excess besides strong german intelligence has always been a joke. and the same as media, i'm a say. and the so i think this is a massive intelligence failure on many levels. but 3 things strikes me about this story is a remarkable story. i'm, you know, 1st of all, how stupid the drums are, the thing that, you know, the pitiful challenges, attempts to distance himself from the war. can full russia, you know, this idea of sending their own agents to, to speak loudly with the american actions in public, you know, what was the whole get seemed getting the trains to formally ask them to send the

real kids as though that were full russians. you know, we got a memo from the ukrainians units. so that's one thing that i find really, hitler is most of the gemini believes that an isolated attack on russia just one, a one show a time on the bridge will be such a deal breaker and yourself that will make, but it will be attending points in the will, that's what i got from the transcripts. you know, i don't think sadly, the interesting thing from a journalist point of view is how western media haven't touched the subject. they haven't got anywhere near it with the exception of the news week, which is aligned with the call on group and unintelligent services in america. but say these 3 things that strikes me as quite all, but i, you know, i think i'm germany has come so far. from the days of we're only going to send them home is to now, you know, we need to talk about how we're going to strike and how we're going to blow the bridge. and the, and really interesting thing which also came through for me was how they didn't have any confidence in the training themselves to do this job. so they would have

to get involved with how to send that people that well, i mean, it's interesting, you know, george and me get up at the curts bridge chromium bridge. however you want to call it. it is important. it's really quite impressive to but how in the world could it be a game changer? okay, that's what i mean. it just seems to me, you know, this is this, you know, it's, it's a, a visual that will give gratification to many in the lead class, but that it's not a deal breaker. okay. george, this other deal breaker, but it's the, the, the thinking behind is the same thinking that prevails in they. so in the same thinking that would continually being expressed by nato secretary general, again shult them by, which is, well, we do this and then we do that and then, and then we do the search thing. and then bolton will magically comfortable negotiating table so. so how will you know what it will do with that was some, something will reach a critical mass, and russia will come to the go changing table. so that's, that's the,

that's the pro ration. now, the thing is of the concept, get also this, uh, this training. i mean here is, i'm sergeant schultz going around in public saying, no, no, no we, you know, we, we constant doors missile because this, this is somehow, we know a red line for us because of the week of december, the germans are going to be involved in targeting the targets in rush, so that, that's, that's what i'm think about. and here are these german senior officers discussing just about a country to the public claims. so it's the gain is this goes to continuing escalation because they don't know any to the what, what that will say can do that. and that's what it was somehow magically to and will act as the one responsible person we contact responsive, really in a way where if you don't need a response to wait a 2nd little children playing with the guns and mess off, but built in lack response, it was oh yeah, hey guys. well let's, let's, let's, we'll get round negotiating. they've come to a solution, but that's, and that's then that, that, that's the,

that's the rationale. and it's obviously crazy and escalation that lives those as well. yeah. but we have plausible deniability. so that's okay, they, you know, we're not doing any. yeah, but that's not gonna have much impact on russia's reaction to whatever they do. i did that. it's, it's, it's just part of the domestic and in group consumption, i learned, it seems to me that to this panic. and this desperation is that essentially what nato and washington specifically is embracing. and they have one of them, part of the heart getting back to some words that victoria knew and said recently, surprises for mr. poodle, meaning they're don't going to rely upon basically terrorism. that's what they want to do to. yeah, it's delusional. thinking at best. and i go back to my other point about really bad intelligence. i mean, how poor can your intelligence be? how, how bad is of to be when you don't do any contingency investigation, a tool into what russia would do? what is the crime in a bridge or might have been hit is nothing in that. you know there's,

there's just assumption. but between these air force and go senior officials that to rush, it would just be a sitting duck, couldn't have to take it. you know, larry as the um there was so some of these guys are talking about. um not enough. you need some like 20 tours miss also really do some serious damage the bridge. and how would we do that? how would we, when we already penny pinching. i'm being stingy about sending them 2020 towards me . so i was one of the guys said, you know what we can send to 20 or 30, but shouldn't the brits also send some as well? should that be that? so i'm next. you know, this is how far we've dealt with the war. it's penny pinching now is becoming ridiculous. you know, because when you fold it in the light, did it, but hang on, hang on. but then this idea, you know, it says if you want a real job is that we send a friends, raphael flights objects and to do the job for us, what do they think the russians going to do with his friends just buzzing around what ship like you know he's like, like you watch him, you know, ducks fly entrusted w got him, you know, cool. so going to shoot it down and then you have a massive,

massive level of escalation. you have a huge problem from the west. the in the one of our guys has been taken out on that possibly could be a level as that goes back down cuz they wouldn't dare do it. i just, i don't know where that's coming from. george, i said in my introduction, is germany now and official enemy of russia. i mean, it seems to be, this is 0. and i asked that to, because i know you're a historian and it seems to me that there is a missing history here. this is not a good idea. i mean, it's just very usefully speaking, ok of all countries to want to avoid being an enemy of russia. it should be germany . it could be exactly as and again, it goes back to what i was saying is that the only reason germany was permitted to re unify was the soviet union go by people running for literally night . we signed off on something that he didn't have to do. it absolutely didn't. after that, that doesn't matter what the british people want. the americans wonder,

the french, one of the soviet union was the key blade or, and all of us and soviet union signed off on it. but it, germany then have to make that pledge. and of course i won't go full 00. ok. and then the, the hands will piece will any, i mean, they don't know, but that's it. but it's very, it's clear. and i mean, it was clear, you know, fairly on the, on the, in the, the, and that's off to the reunification of the drum. and he wasn't going to abide by these commitments. and now essentially drum to me is it, i'm back, you know, waging oh, of effectively a war against russia. the rhetoric that's coming out of germany today from the german bullet dishes, from left to right. you know, all the other than you know, the was or alternative with deutsch, send them this new left blodgett. but within, within the bonus tag, it's below the hostility and then hopkins back to what kind of the, the pre will era and, and, and so give a judge. judy will end on this, but this, it's been, this has been made permissible because of washington. yeah, they exactly surveys it, but as well,

and the brothers and the happy on the country, they continually berating the dramas before being to be sufficiently, the sellers in pursuing this war against roughly about the british. i think what's, what's wrong with the gentleman 0 and but again, yeah, you go, you know, step up all your finger out and then and get, get with the program against russia. so it's a, it's, i think it's a dentist and i liked the video he sent out between saying, you know, symmetric process, the depth of the process, you know, as a competitor to the old will, will, to slogans or yeah, that's a good, that's, it is a very dangerous situation. so what we've learned gentleman from this problem program when in doubt and when in panic, s lights, that's what the rule is here, a very dangerous ground that we're watching unfold in front of us as all the time we have. i want to thank my guessing in budapest ending verification, of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at our t. so you next time. remember across the rules, the,

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the, we proceed from the fact the gemini is obliged to give explanations. moscow respond said, and germany is preparing for a military conflict with russia. author will meet the ladies at high ranking, fitted free staff meetings with the dream pressure of the target loss and infrastructure. the washington air drops aids to gather some of which within the reach, those was starving as falls into the sea spokesman. and for you'd assess every 2 minutes here and assistance needs to be properly delivered people in, in the guns chip or this. but the bottom line here is 8,