harbor or the assassination of president john f. kennedy. every american can tell you where they were and what they were doing when they learned that the united states had been attacked on september 11th. more than 22 years after the fact. americans thought we knew the story of 911, the c i a and the f. b. i weren't cooperating. the white house wasn't focused on terrorism and the terrorist got lucky. but now thanks to an obscure court filing, we're learning something far more sinister. i'm john curiosity. welcome to the whistle blowers the . 2 2 2 2 2 the story of the 911 attacks is a very complicated one. i will admit to you. i was personally involved as the former director of counter intelligence for what was then called alex station at the c i a. it was also known as the summer been live in group. i later became the

head of c. i a counter terrorism operations in pakistan after 911. and then i was the executive assistant to the c. i is deputy director for operations. for many years i thought i knew what happened in the run up to 911. now i know that i was wrong to an article at the gray zone lays out the truth about $911.00. it shows using the f, b i's own documents, as well as affidavits by insiders in the investigation that the saudi intelligent service was likely involved in the attacks through an intelligence officer named omar i was by you me by you may had been in san diego, california with 2 of the 911 hijackers now west of has me and holiday mid heart. they socialize together on many occasions and had organized other gatherings that included several of the other hijackers. but you mean even health has me and mid hard get an apartment in san diego by you? me for his part says that he only met the terrorist accidentally. witnesses say

that just isn't true. and by you mean never fully explain why he received $50000.00 from princess haifa. been to face so of settled the wife of the saudi ambassador to the united states. prince bandar been so kind else that would and then pass that money to the terrorist. we're happy to be joined by the author of that article kit, clarin burge. he's an investigative journalist, specializing in the role of intelligent services and shaping politics and perceptions. welcome to the show kit. we're happy to have you help us sort through this complicated story. hey, how's it going? let's start with the players involved. we have. oh, morrow by. you mean we have no where? so has me. we have holiday and mid heart. tell us about these guys. yeah, sure. so i mean, i have, i'll, i'll have them, you know, michel, j o actually the crucial components within this,

within what happened to 911. indeed, every was a day off. they all these 1st 911 hijackers to arrive in the us been turned in, in terms of the needs of the, upon arrival at the end of so in that, in los angeles, they need a more alibi. huge who is a saudi government employee. now he claimed to an official f b. i investigation called operation uncle into set the types of saudi involving 911 that he was humble and saudi jump. me to include improve employee who had just taken a pity on the to, on the on, on, has me and i'll miss all because they didn't speak english and they were strangers in this strange lives. and so as a result, he helped get them accommodation and gave them the brother numerous sums of money to get a thousands of dollars and help them get set top. the how are you moving to the informants? who was it? was that religious the policy information to this out in savage and services as

well? um and uh, yeah. did do. an uncle concludes the, actually about, oh boy, you, me was working this out the intelligence. he was himself that he kind of long standing high ranking se by in the us. he was to organizing various and come decimal in activities for the saudis on us soil. now, well on cool, it doesn't go into that, didn't go into it was shut down rather abruptly and without much in the way of the funds that were explanation. i think it was in 2016 of the month and i might be wrong with that, but um in a uh at the started last year um this independent website. spiteful book um got his hands on a 2021. i'm told decoration by a lead investigator to the office of military commissions, which is the legal body which is prosecuting alleged. and i'll call you to terrorist housing one time

a bank. and it's very rich details and as well what is well with reading, i'm just your own. it started on my, my, i my, i like folded this up an investigation which went supernova gladly hook me up. it was rather rug surprised given that the entire major media would ignore split the, the, the in the, in the finally it's, it is made repeatedly quit that the c i a had a relationship with has me and middle via the, using the saudis, as a, as a liaison, so adults around restrictions on the c, i a spying on on you on you, you got it domestically. you don't us citizens. so, um, i mean that's the, that's the short on so, and then we can go into the wider machinations of uh, alex station. if you wish. much of your article is based on a sworn affidavit submitted by don canister. are one of the military commissions investigators. i know dawn, he is a serious person and an accomplished investigator, he spent more than 20 years as

a drug enforcement administration. agent. tell us what he said about the connection between the $911.00 hijackers and the saudi government. well, i mean i, i'd rather disagree, but like, i mean it's, it shows it in effect what $3002.00 is that the saudis were up and they were providing money and material support to the hijackers on and what you, bald a while they were in the us and, and assisting them is like prepared to hijack cast items and slide them into various buildings on the home, september 11th, 2001. and i, i'm like, slightly less dead. i'm not particularly interested in the, in the, in the saudi. i can go on far more interested in alex station because they the, this, the what the saudis were doing in the us in terms of funnelling money and support and assistance to the site to the, to the hijackers. it could not have been done without the see eyes approval or at

least elements within the c i a, a pre approving of an activity. one thing it's hot, the tennis ferraro has evidence that by you, me was working with another saudi intelligence officer in the united states by the name of the head of mary or so mattie was deported from the us before the attacks for alleged connections to terrorism. who was to mattie, and what was his role? a lot of like i said, it's not something i particularly looked into. i mean, it just strikes me is like more more of a smoke screen. really? i mean, i wrote and off with my subsidized writing recently, which noted how i had the uh, the uh, what's his name up a dis, a tough shape. who was the last, the unemployment who lived with the, the, to high that with the, has me in middle of, i mean, and i might out as well if i has me in mid all his behavior during this time was extremely strange. and but was what day arouse suspicion amongst the neighbors because they didn't buy any furniture. they slats on mattresses and on the floor

and spend the days playing flights. it'd be like that. but then they would also, they also had many boxed items which are not that common at the time. and they were k, e picks up by the limousines that i mean quote, this will, could be more suspicious not, but apparently, despite living with an f b, i informant, to mention the path to his hand. and on more than one occasion gave the sco detail of biographical information they wrote their russo named in the local telephone book. but one of the reasons why this didn't create any investigative leads was because the c, i a knew i'm that the pause me and middle had multi entry visas for the us. this is all and i the inspector general report they, they, they knew very well that they were heading into the us and had been planning something on. they attended the, the, i'll call you to something quality them pool, which was recorded at the series requests. so that they already took images, there was no audio, apparently. and i mean quite why doctors, i'm not,

i'm not sure, but i did. that's your inside, expert expertise may offer an explanation. but the, and if it like so that when, when the ends is when the ends of the us, despite the fact that the next and the see, i said slack them is terror threats. no one was notes like no any that there are several f, b i, a operatives who are posted to alex station, which is the c i is dedicated. i'll call you the tracking unit of the day with explicitly toll. i'm a piece of detailed by this of periods, not notified. actually, i had 5 courses about their presence in the us to tell us about the transfer of money from the saudi ambassador's wife to the terrace. this is something that has bothered me for a very long time and it's never been fully explained to anybody that was just a numerous amounts of money would be sent both to talk to you me for his art and kind of person enrichment by the saudi ambassador in the us and uh yes it is,

it is members of his medicine, his family and that was also an enormous, not money being a month for the the hijackers. i mean, it's cost quite interesting is if you look at the $11.00 commission report, which is, i mean, i'm, i had the, the welding majority of it is based on the testimony obtained them to torture that full and they, they, they, and the detainees admitted to like, coming to, to make it possible. crimes let blow off those things that hadn't been built at the time that they were captured. and they duplicated the large number. it just didn't people who had no connection to terrorism because the, that it was necessary to construct respect a lot, this global terrorist conspiracy which didn't actually really exist on. and so i thought, yeah that the and the 911 commission report deals with the question of who finance the finance the attack as a excited it is of no material significance or some kind of phrase like that,

which is quite incredible. i mean, everyone's seeing all the president's men follow the money, right. i mean, the, the finding was so that it can detail was how that what concerted efforts by phillips that account there was a little one is the key investments that leads all the the, the 911 commission to shield the saudis, from the from scrutiny and unconcealed there, oh, there it was. so it would contain, but then the declaration of large number f, b i n c i a people who cited to that they were told expressly to lawyer about the c i a 's relationship with has me middle 2, congressional inquiries to clara bird stay right there. we're going to take a short break and when we come back we will continue our conversation with kit, claire and bird. we're going to try to get to the bottom of the question of whether 911 was just a horrible intelligence failure or something more sinister state to. 2

2 the i look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given it by human beings, except we're so shorter is that conflict with the 1st law show alignment as a patient. we should be very careful about our personal intelligence at the point, obviously is to place a trust rather than fit the various jobs. i mean with the artificial intelligence we have so many with him in

the most protects his phone. existence was on the day in the united states. all foreign policy establishment on national security establishment is whether or not you pursue it becomes a cloak for our own aggression. it becomes a way of flushing other countries on the back for our record shows that we're not really that much of the democracy that we have no strip interfering in other countries when they produce democratic outcomes. we don't like the the welcome back to the whistle blowers,

i'm john kerry onto we're speaking with journalist kit clarin berg about the 911 attacks and the possible involvement of the saudi government in them. good to have you with this kit. hey, how's it going? it's an important part of your article has to do with both the f b i and the 911 commission. neither are honest players in the story. it seems not only possible but likely that the f b i had recruited one or more of the hijackers through omar of by you me. so 1st is that true? and if so, how in the world would it have been possible for the $911.00 attacks to take place? well, i mean, they were allowed to happen. i mean, at the very, at the very, very least. and like, i mean to all sorts of interesting indications of a full knowledge like um, uh, id, but extremely suspicious and irregular trading activities. and the best thing on

poor performance companies who stop price is crashed due to $911.00, including delta airlines. and then by that google sorts of speculative that's on defense companies, which it needs to be that, that chat price, you know, double treatment tripled following 911 because of the prospect of subsequent was. and so, i mean it's quite the very least they relapse happened on purpose. i mean, i have my own series which are just out. that's the reason i try not to deal in, in speculation, particularly in my wife. but i mean so for example, if you think about like the a top from the pens again, right? like this was the, the, the, the, the re, the, um, the hijacker. it was thats the individual county handle um who was according to his family not possess the big stream is used and was extremely sort of self facing and good hearted and was a highly unlikely suspect for carrying out of a major terrorist attack in a foreign country. um, but uh yeah,

in fact he hijacked the slide 77 and it, it took, makes it right in front of me. remarkable. and just quite extraordinary. 300. and so i teach degree just sending, quote, free time from around 7, the 1000 seats in the apple travelling as aside from a 100 miles per hour, did it become perfectly level with the pedestrian road leading up to the pen. so good, like flying so low that it's like nothing like the alarm post. and before it crashes into the department defense h q. and this would be a remarkable performance for military jet like the passengers yet, but nobody that has the jewel and this has been reported on by the mainstream media was considered one of the was, if not the worst people's they'd ever seen. you know, a flight school, they told that he presented a risk and he was ever in the he couldn't control the thing he lodge, and cessna. and he, he was, she said yes, like

a safety hazard. he would take hours to complete quite a exam questions that typically took about the 50 minutes of my students. so i mean quite how he pos and he pulled off like one of the most daring. um, you know, mid a revised robust times in recorded history is space is nothing short remarkable. and then as well obviously a total lack of cctv from, from anywhere like around 10 skin which actually shows a plane facing the building. but i mean it. so maybe it was even more kind of incredible, right. and that the building had like 20000 people in it and then by the casualties were about 150 and it was not know what senior was home. but as it was mainly like builders and construction workers, because the deposit depends gonna hit was, was basically just used to under refurbishment. so i mean we have a house, so like a bunch of covers instances. i mean, oh, maybe the saudis was just finding something full, maximum visual impact,

well limiting casualties. i mean the, you know, the planes hit the towers, they hit very high, often before 9. and before most people were at what i'm actually when it's between 1000, i was about 12 they are, they were as you probably be. well, no, john and you're upright cities. and if that it's like bicycle cities, with your tens of thousands of people watching the attraction, tens of thousands of towards the day, it would be the hotels that have like hundreds of rooms. and then the desktop was actually in the very like, thousands it was initially thought because of because they were so vast that the, the, that told was it was like maybe 25000 people live in hundreds rest homes and drugs valve. as at the time on that before he mysteriously committed suicide. but yeah, i mean, this is all very saw and the, you know, if it, if it was a few hours later and a few floors lower, you would have tens of thousands of people who are walking out. so i know maybe it's a lot of co incidence. i'm not sure i've never had confidence in the work of the 911 commission for reasons that have never been explained. they did not cooperate

with a wide variety of governmental organizations that were trying to get to the bottom of how an attack like 911 could occur in your article. you talk about the commission's chief of staff being uncooperative. can you tell us a little more about that? yeah, sure. i mean, well, i mean, i don't, i don't to use the phrase on cooperative, but like, i mean, yeah, i, like i said i, i know that like there were several m s. b, i officials who, who talked to, trying to, they were told to, to, uh, uh, to get to lawyer to official investigate investigation. i get a sense that there was some, you know, there was some good people within the bureau who like what really angry about what happened and wants to get to the truth of that. i'm sure the same is the true true the see i as well, i mean the alex, the the, the descriptions of alex station and, and various people working within 5 within it. uh,

they seem to be behaving very suspiciously. i mean, it's very odd that people who uh, affect to be on the list would be using code names for each of the. i'm trying to recreate the assets within, i'll call you to ritual. i mean, that's not, you know, the way, cuz as honest as you well know, you of the but, so i mean, not, not in itself is quite suspects. and then there's all sorts of other peculiar at, besides, like when they met with the f. b, i an a pair to the thames, it's deliberately mislead them about the identities of pennsburg to people in inside toys they presented, one of whom was, was of it was what a bizarre. uh huh. oh yeah, it's a story they um, they showed pictures of that has me in mid oregon and plains and don't know who they why, which is very strange. one of the lingering mysteries is the failure. the refusal really of the c i a and the f b i to cooperate with one another. the result of course, was the $911.00 attack. these 2 organizations hated each other,

and that hatred went all the way back to the creation of the c. i a and 1947. how much did that hatred and refusal to cooperate result in 911 or would the attacks have happened any way? well, i mean, the, the, the, every, every life is but, right. i think that's the, the phrase is used. i mean, there were all sorts of, i mean the, the us was a highly impenetrable. you know, i have the time i like that was i, i remember right watching, but as a long time ago you that was the that was the style with millennium paul. where and i'll call you do it for tape attempted to drive a, a cost of explosive in from canada. and it was a really, by chunks that they got stopped because they're a little that where at that time, an enormous number, the unmanned border crossings with which we could have just slipped past with, with some of these. um, the interagency beef between the n s i n c i a has also been distributed for to

911 and it go or lot of information sharing or lot or a refusal to yeah, cool. like true. all right. and the situation in which the agencies didn't what each of the new and i mean that the, there is the aspects of it. i mean, it does, it does strike me that, that what that, what very deliberate attempts by elements of outlook stations to prevent the f, b i from finding out about the presence it has to be in on the middle in the us. like i said, i mentioned not to 2001 meeting where they presented size of the hijackers, but then refused to say for you they weren't even went to the extent of falsely claiming one of the individuals picture. it was filed out 2 sided who was a suspect and development of the u. s. s. cole, and it hit by one of the f. b, i opted cited in in the dining canister are,

is that the testimony is noticed by the size of cs 12 and a cs 12 recalls how he confronted i am an, an f b s. b. i analyst, known as being a coffee and to mon dates that she provide information on a has me and middle and, and she refused. and he explicitly states it off to the side who with the like someone who's going to die unless mid or is pursued criminally. and then like, because obviously there are 2 types of investigation. there is, there is a criminal, amended intelligence investigation into people unlike it, when a criminal investigation is a, is a serious thing. indeed had they had the f b, i know that it has me and middle over in the us they could have launched a criminal investigation, found them within days, did clock who is the head,

who was the players and is heads had to come to terms of terrorism operations of the white house, who was pretty much immediately demoted when the bush administration times power has said very much the same thing that they could have been quote, is more information. we said the obvious question is whether it was deliberately with how it's a nice thing is that it's quite clear that it was um whether that was to allow the attack to go ahead with or not. is another question to give us your gut reaction to all of this information after all these years. what ends still need to be tied up and will the likes of omar o by you me. and so i had to somebody ever see justice. i think what we really need to do is not that needs to be a genuine independent investigation into 911, but that it's not subject to, i mean the, the rich, the original 911 commission that commissioner set that they were, they were set top to fail and deliberately, from the funded and i knew it was other stuff. um yeah. but we need like a serious investigation with subpoena power with the uh,

perhaps being involved with like the year now rather rather embarrassing mute or investigation with like sweeping powers. but to interview witnesses, subpoena residents and get people on ice and punish them if they are found to be lying and specifically austin. why? if it's the case, if it is the case that the c, i had a relationship with it with at least 2 more of the hijackers. why was that concise? it tends to conceal this. what you bought was, what was the purpose because there was clearly some, uh, some wider objective that was being served by. but by that, by that to see by that consumer and so on. i mean, i've seen no indications of anything like this coming of the materializing. it is abundantly clear to the entire media just wants to move on and pretend it didn't happen. like, why is the this the i am yeah,

the i seems to be rather silent. and then yes, about the, the release of this uh, this declaration. i mean a, but it does appear that some officials, a lease in my home country, britain was paying close attention because when i was stopped in may on the account to tell her of how does the us it's brenda to come in and whether it's the details of 5 hours against my well well my and progressive be questions on the threats of arresting persecution for not talking which is you know, so i did fax you it on and they use indicator of fascism compelled speech. and i like they specifically obviously what, what, what, so i feel it's about $911.00 and $4.00. awesome. you will manner of questions about my investigation. so, british intelligence might be a, might have been a been concerned about about my ex place a, but again, we can also yourselves, you know, why this would be and why you specifically saw fit to use valuable time in interrogation

in a windowless room and back of an apple which yeah, that allowed me the about me to well i still what about $911.00 and so yes. like what's now held in data bases around the world around the wells by the date, allied security and intelligence and agencies. um yeah, well quite disturbing. john. thank you. take claire and bird for joining us today. some stories are so tragic and so complicated that many people think it's better to just move on. i hear that all the time about the assassinations of john f. kennedy . robert f. kennedy and martin luther king. i hear you fully often about the 911 attacks, but that's wrong. the american people deserve the truth. they deserve to know if the organizations charged with protecting them are incompetent. they deserve to know if they're in danger. 5 for one and grateful for journalists like kit, claire and birth to even years after the facts are still in pursuit of the truth.

thanks for joining us for another episode of the whistle blowers. i'm john kerry onto we'll see you next time the. 2 the, the, the today in the united states, all foreign policy establishment on national security establishment is a weapon option to pursue. it becomes a cloak for our own aggression. it becomes so a way of flushing other countries on the back sort of our record shows that we're not really that much of the democracy that we have on those 3 of interfering in other countries when they produce democratic outcomes. we don't like the

was a major issue, you will probably be doing it by giving me the condition of insurance will apply me appreciate the code and because the issue simply went through cuz you will get to the subject yourself. okay, so should the cases i chose, customer care them and then i just need somebody to spell the name. she goes to the doctor on the plaza road. lemme gene, you know what that was. returning your past, due to the invite, some of the was congested is the one. this is sort of you, but you're starting successful. you want to build some of the chairs are still good . i still don't know if i'm forward to for, for more from the 2 main drain. when the

2 by way expels us a admission, according to the state department, the move comes up to america in post most functions on the confused government officials. a humanitarian at a job kills 5 in gauze and city up to a power she fails to open this semester as a result of israel's blockade of border crossings. also, one thing was quite clear though, president finding chess hasn't got it, he's out of touch us of public and lawmakers from joe biden, states of the union address, which he keeps off by focusing on ukraine instead of burning issues on the home from the.