above our military, industrial complex is as though we actually were at war with russia ourselves. jeremy's, going to increase production of artillery in ukraine it's weapons would make or ryan metal really is never had it so good at making hardware that can get the loan up. pretty much right on the battlefield, coming straight off the assembly line. so no need to even spend any money shipping it to where it can actually get blown up started there. it's a wonder that their weapons production facilities and ukraine are. you can still operational and haven't been blown up themselves of altogether. they call this discussion format with pulling france and germany, the raymar triangle, but it's more like it's on the verge of turning into a bermuda triangle for native weapons. and so the pole is prime minister this made up in her lane was also a great virtue signaling opportunity in spelling out the settings of this meeting. the atmosphere of it showed very clearly that some malicious rumors about the fact that europe in capitals are different from each other in

a few matters were widely exaggerated. today we spoke in one voice without any unnecessary waste or hesitation without any which is sometimes typical for market policy. we have decided that 8 for the green must be immediate. and as intensive as possible, we want to spend our money. we want to help in all possible ways the polish farmers and truckers protesting against the unfair advantage that their ukrainian counterparts are getting into european market right now. we really believe it's not absolutely thrilled to learn that their own government wants to spend their money on your trade desk. seems awfully concerned about the perception of divisions between these 3 countries. well, they all do actually, maybe they should be more informed about the very real and deep divisions between the people of their countries and the junkers, making these decisions with poles in germany and france and particular showing that the actual citizens of these countries really are not in sake, overwhelmingly with their leaders, when it comes to this idea of either ramping up the long range weapons or sending

their own troops to ukraine. michael said that the 3 nations are quote, united, determined and resolute to never let russia with sounds like you. how does the poli on it, you call them the hat on a bit too tight when practicing for this performance in the mirror? and that's pretty much what it is. it's a shows are the folks at home. while the realities on the ground are much more complicated, and these guys conveniently refuse to define for the folks at home, what russia really would even look like. but hey, if you don't put up a goal post, then you never really have to worry about moving them. and also west is because they getting to come to tubs is not only a probable ukrainian defeats the reality of its own. strategic failure is becoming clear of all the multiple a will takes on the rules based order and hedge funds, news controlled. the geopolitical blow back is looking fears about cost high for

more on the west of the stadium. that will go down to the history books of a historic devil called pedal, but it's all a t dot com. the doctor would argue it's an optional hold away for the latest condo russian presidential election and even much more. so you against the the most americans have complaints about corruption, whether at the local state or even the national levels. we don't have to live with corruption as an endemic part of our culture, like many other countries do. but it's still frustrating when one encounters it. and then what happens when the corruption, that one encounters is so agreed, so bold as to put a person's life in danger. what happens when green clouds,

the judgments of otherwise professional accomplished people? what happens when your own lawyer turns against you? and how about if your lawyer is working with rudy giuliani to do it? you go to court and you assumed that on john kerry onto welcome to the whistle blowers the . 2 2 2 2 2 is talk pleasant, it was born and raised in slovenia, a patriot, and a natural athlete. he decided to join his country's intelligence service, where he specialized in counter terrorist operations. he trained with the with secret service and the navy seals before deciding to emigrate to the united states in 2003 because of his athletic ability. he was actually drafted as a place kicker by an nfl team in 2004 and offered that he declined so that he

couldn't. instead work for a company under contract with the international criminal court. is talked to lead counter terrorist teams to retrieve evidence or to capture people around the world under indictment in the i c. c. it was during one of these operations in 2017. that is talk, and his team of operations officers entered a series of alleged terrorist safe houses in africa, in pursuit of terrorist suspects. they found their man, but they also found a stash of cash. these are houses with pallets of american currency, notably one with $6000000000.00 and another with $10000000000.00 in $100.00 bills. the source of the money is a mystery. it most likely belong to the government of former libyan leader, walmart. i'll cut daffy. it may have been a c, i is money. it could have been money hoarded by all tied up is talk, ordered that the cash be secured in warehouses and because he's a patriot, he sought to return it to the us treasury. he received permission to do just that

from the us department of the treasury. but when he went to africa to pick up the money, it did take it back to the us. the american embassy turned on him and he was arrested by local authorities, jailed, beaten, and eventually expelled. just weeks later, the american government officials who were supposed to help him, retired with new houses and new cars. sounds fishing, it doesn't, it were joined by bruce spine. he's a former associate deputy attorney general of the united states. he's one of the country's leading constitutional scholars. and he's the attorney representing is talk public in his suit against the us government and the officials who apparently turned on him. bruce, welcome to the show. you know, thank your for inviting me to bruce. let's start at the very beginning here. tell us about this money. where is it? why is it there? and how did is taught and go about getting permission to bring it back as well. the

money really can't be located any more specifically then somewhere in africa and part for security concerns. uh, i think that uh, where did it come from? uh, the most likely place is uh, from uh, colonel cut off these uh coffers did choose amounts of cash. that were probably like his weapons of conventional weapons that were scattered throughout africa when he was over the throne. now this is not a case where there was any reluctance of by his stock to be secretive. it was all transparent. he took the initial samples of the cash to the us department of justice. had them interrogate him free hours, test the cash to make certain it was authentic. it wasn't counterfeit. and that's

not an example of someone who you think is doing something wrong. i mean, we didn't have briggs instance al capone's visit j edgar hoover before just gang sleggs. so after he had obtained this bidding and clearance from the department of justice, he proceeded with his a port, a purported attorney who turned against them to the treasury department. and asked for letters authorizing the repatriation of $6000000000.00. first could be as much as 10000000000 additional into the treasury department. and he was given to letters and instructions as to how the wire transfer might be done. then he proceeded to travel to ivory coast where the 6000000000 was being held and it was available for transfer. uh once he had the approval of the us embassy. he was told by his lawyer. yes, she with a mr. billington,

who will be the man in charge of the embassy and he will do everything necessary to have the money repaid tree. lo and behold, when the stock arrives with a letter from the treasury department in which is lawyers knowledge that he had been completely vetted and approved by the justice department. mister billington, screams and yells and gives him of criminality, that he and others are all going to be going to prison. he ordered him to be detained by marines at the embassy he left and departed. he had a mister club, nick, arrested, imprisoned with hardened criminals, where his life was in danger for hours after that duration of the money that had been stored in a nearby police office was disappeared. i don't think it takes much speculation to

know what likely happened to it. uh, it was a french lawyer who is close to his dock, who was able since ivory coast is a french speaking country, a former french colony to intercede. vouch for mister plastics. integrity, in fact, was capturing terrorist, he wasn't the terrorist himself and he was able to be released after being really under enormous stress. how much living in torture conditions do hotel, and then return the united states. but then his lawyer abandoned him. a lawsuit erupted because the, uh, the suspicion was, as you mentioned in your opening, this sudden surge of wells uh, in persons who are working for the government, which doesn't pay the e laws must style salary indicative of they had unexplained the ability to buy

very palatial houses and vehicles which know the cases now on appeal, but at least as we speak, there's been no disputing. the factual narrative that has been related on your program. and you have to ask, why would a country it's got a $34.00 trillion dollar national debt. it's running annual budget deficits of $1.00 to $2.00 or more trillion dollars. turn away billions of dollars cost free and repatriated money. it doesn't make any sense unless there's some old tier motors, right? so the government officials that were involved in the whole ultimately beef indicate but i think what this shows in some sense, john, i think you experience at the see a and after $911.00, it almost became routine for the government to throw money anywhere under any name

of anti terrorism, helping someone, remember we were giving cut off the money in part because he, a band of w. m d. there is no congressional oversight. no tracking money goes everywhere. mm hm. and i think this is an effort to try to retrieve the money, keep it out of the hands of terrorists. be a good samaritan, right? to the extent there's money, pay pay taxes on it all goes into the ditch. and it's really very uncomplimentary to the federal government and it one underscore then it was under both the trump invited administrations. that's right. not a part of it. so growth has happened. so it is talk is trying to do the right thing . he goes to the treasury department to get permission. he walks out of the treasury department with a signed letter authorizing him to return the money that he found to the us treasury. as you said, he flies to africa. he goes to the us embassy to meet with the officials there.

this meeting came after a meeting in washington with a judge, eugene sullivan, and with representatives of the state department and the justice department. and then what happened? well, what happened was when he arrived and was told to go to the embassy instead of being received amicably and enthusiastically with his treasury letters. it was may be challenged, though with statements with the treasury letters are focused and you know, they're not often. and when is talk said, well, they are authentic. there's on the letterhead, there was nothing fishy about them. he could call on the treasury, gave them phone numbers that he can call back in washington dc. this, after all is the digital age. you don't have to sail across the atlantic ocean to get a response that was not done. it was simply a dogmatic steep no, i don't believe this is right. i think that you're not who you are, that this is fraud. all come through his re statements that he had him detained

with machine guns pointed at him right for hours. and then suddenly, as you can imagine, all the billions of dollars disappear, disappeared, additional $10000000000.00 nearby also disappeared as well. so the whole thing makes no sense at all if you're a truly bona fi, uh uh, an embassy official. and someone is coming with the letter saying i'm trying to repatriate $6000000000.00 to the us treasury. here's the money here. the letters you initially would say, okay, well that's wonderful. i'll make a phone call, let me just i, i want to have it verified. and that's where you can do in this day and age you pick up a phone is what's that. there are ways to communicate you can communicate by email . that's right, but that wasn't done. it was just a contrived excuse to prevent the repatriation of money. and you would think that the department of treasury, department of justice would be furious. what is the money was going to come in at

least cut the deficit $6000000000.00. that's not pocket change. nothing. anything. they've been hospital this stuff, nor efforts. i've sent letters to the new general counsel, the treasury department under by no response whatsoever. no interest in any of this . and the fact is, this, these billions are not just the ceiling and they are the floor. and for reasons known, perhaps best of the intelligence community. there are a lot of us dollars all over africa, right? maybe informants band and the money, maybe c i a, they don't, they're, they're attacked. and so they have to band and we're caches. if you work in africa, you readily understand that caches the cooling of the realm if you will. and that's how you get things done. so in lots of yes, that's how you threw in friends and the enemies very quickly and enemies into french very quickly. so there could be huge amounts there. and especially because

congress does know, oversight. and c, i a can span without any auditing whatsoever. you can imagine money being printed in going everywhere, right. we, we used to say as a c i o and we have to say to you that intelligence is a, is a cash business. busy there is no oversight, there is no one to keep the honest people honest. but bruce hold that thought we're going to take a short commercial break. and when we come back, we're going to speak with bruce fine. a little bit more about taking to the courts . what happens when an individual takes on the lady american government stay tuned . 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 the. 2 the

acceptance, and i'm here to plan with you whatever you do, you do not watch my new shells. seriously. why watch something that's so different . whitelisted opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to please or do have the state department to see i a weapons bankers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead. change and whatever you do. don't want marshall stay main street because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called stretching time, but again, you probably don't want to watch it because it might just change the way you the welcome back to the list of lawyers.

i'm john kerry onto were speaking with attorney bruce fine about a nightmarish experience that his client is talking plus, nick has had in trying to return as much as $16000000000.00 in cash to the us treasury cash. he found in what was apparently a safe house in africa. bruce, good to have you with us. thanks again. thank you, bruce that you filed the federal lawsuit in washington, dc on is tech plastics behalf. tell us about that. so what exactly does it say? well, the suit charges a common law fraud, basically uh the narrative is that his lawyer promised falsely to represent is tax best interest in assisting him to repatriate the money . but in fact, going buying is types back. he never intended to represent is stock. but to

plot with associates, his son and 3 federal defendants, to sabotage the repatriation and take the money all or in part for himself and his compatriot. hm. there were 3 federal defendants involved and plus his lawyer in the lawyer, son. now what we had here is there's congress and actually what's called the westfall act many years ago. the purpose was to try to relieve the anxiety of federal officials and thought, well, you know, if we're sue and then it puts a strain on our finances, it's going to make us less aggressive in discharging our do. so the westfall act enables the government to substitute the united states for federal defender in cases where the federal defender in part is acting arguably to benefit in some way in the united states itself. our argument was with regard to these 3 defendants.

you can't possibly be benefiting united states. you're trying to block the repatriation of billions of dollars. rush by definition. i mean, that's not, that's not a hard site. and since that is a prerequisite to claiming the benefit to the best womack we said, no, these individuals have to defend themselves. rather, the judge, i thought, of the roadies decision said in some sense they were trying to help united states because they were acting in their official capacities when the wrongs occurred. well, that's true enough. they were acting in their official capacities, but not to benefit the united states. they're explaining their official capacities to sabotage the united states, to use it to enrich themselves, not the united states. mm hm. um. so that was one issue that we rejected. and then when it came to the judge common law fraud, we made a very simple fraud quite namely, it's, you're a state of mind. someone state of mind is a fact. under the law,

you represent that you're going to be faithful and honest and representing a client at the time you intend to just honor the client's interest to sabotage the client you've misrepresented your state of mind. that's fraud is common law for all is similar in a case where you have a contract where you sign a contract knowing at the time you sign, you do not intend to fulfill your just tricking the other side to go along. and the judge issued a ruling saying, well, we could sue the lawyers for malpractice negligence but not very strong. i don't, i still can't understand that reasoning at all. i just flatly wrong and we have a case now. it's on appeal to you as court of appeals for the district of columbia circuit to where never, where i'm optimistic they, we can prevailed here. one of the things that is interesting to me, and i've read this lawsuit and i've read the responses, of course, is that the sullivan's this former judge, eugene sullivan,

and his son against whom the lawsuit is still pending. it's that the sullivans never dispute your allegations of fraud. they never say and their response, we didn't steal the money. what should we take from that as well? you take the inference is that they're trying to escape on technicalities any the justice. so otherwise, even the allegations you know, when they're unrequited and you obviously have a chance to put that in your replies and judge sullivan has submitted documents and memoranda but is memorized and never says i didn't do any of this. that i was his lawyer all alone. i represented them fairly. there's a that is all around the edges. my own view as a lawyer in court regularly is that there's an issue of docket, congestion, and judges often times look for excuses to get rid of cases that they don't think

are high profile and no right. at least this gets off my doc and then the court of appeals can take care of. right. and i think that's what happened in this particular case. i still cannot conceive because it's just a very, very elementary principal of common law fraud. going back 80 years, at least this representing your state of mind can be fraudulent if you intend to violate a representation where you say, o honor. and that's exactly what we allege in the complaint. when the judge sullivan said i will be your attorney to start class next signed up at the same time he was planning. that's really not what i'm going to do. i'm not going to represent him. i'm going to sabotage him to my benefits. now that's obviously something that we have to prove at trial if this went forward and goes forward. but surely it states the common law fraud claim. the judge said no, you, you all,

you have the legs, just negligence or malpractice, which seems to be quite a bit. sure. one of the things that i've learned from you is in cases like this, the defendant has to specifically rebut the accusations that the plaintive, yeah, is making. and frankly, i was surprised when elements of this were were denied because. 2 rather than to say, no, i didn't do it. the response was no, you shouldn't be allowed to assume me. well, that's right. i mean in it, when you file an answer in a complaint, you have 2 of you, either a firm or deny or a firm. you know, all the factual allegations here at the defendants ran away from there to didn't even put a cow over any of the details that were set forth in that to me speaks volumes. and even though there is what you call, you know,

litigation privilege, you can make statements that are rather critical of other people and litigation, not incurred defamation. but the other side is a chance to say, by the way, none of this is true and they have ample opportunity to do that. and nothing that has happened in the lawsuit outside the lawsuit suggest that any of the narrative that we set forth is wrong. and unfortunately, justice is ledford more than mercury foot, i think will prevail, but it's not going to happen. ok. well that's actually my next question for you. bruce is, is what's next? how long do you expect this to take? and do you expect that justice is attainable? finally for is not pleasant. i do think that's true. i think we'll probably have, you know, an argument in the us court of appeals, i believe probably sometimes in june,

july sometime in the summer. i don't think it's all that difficult. the case is probably from now, you know, 6 months before we get an opinion, i hope it reversed and it goes back at that time. there might be some kind of settlement. i don't know. uh uh, because the money involved is very, very large. uh, but who knows? i mean, what the landscapes gonna look like, and we, for the case ends, we may have a new administration, may not be buying that it may not be true. i hope a new administration would look more favorably at what we're trying to do here. as we'd be working with them. just say with, there's more money there, we're repatriate. why are you trying this away? that's right. but it's, it's really quite scandalous that congress has no oversight which with, you know, they're investigating all this other stuff. it's, you know, dribble and here's something that could really put a dent in the budget deficit. think good care list, bruce fine,

thank you so much for joining us. well, thank you for inviting me, john. thank you. why is it sometimes so hard to do the right thing? why do governments so often stand in the way of the greater good? we can probably all agree that it's more important to do the right thing then to do things right. mark twain, the author said, quote, you're never wrong for doing the right thing on quote. but i would add that doing the right thing often takes great courage and integrity, like the courage and integrity displayed by his talk plus next. thank you to bruce fine for joining us today. and thanks to our viewers for being with us for another episode of the whistle blowers and john kerry onto we'll see you next. 2 2 2 2 2 on the

water is a part of the the employee would posted isn't the defense you of us and bidding the word or is it something deep but more complex might be present there? let's stop without cases. let's go out of as the motion of the nuclear envelope, she needs a little muscle. if you look on the initial, do want to clump significant dealer post on zillow while it be almost getting used

to put value. where do you do oil change but you also still this is done the newest frame on the belief systems to good you do what i see these the buses. the little gear limitation says this tutorial on both of the as, as your country they want to possess your you around noon they want to possess your gas. they want to at least share why you know, to, and was good for them because he was just opening all the doors. but the problem with them is they do not understand that the connectivity, 6 of people who they are dealing with as much as you press the bear, bear will come out. the problem will be how to put the bear back to his face. the

russian forces repel another attempt by ukrainian troops to infiltrate the border region of belgrade. for a 2 civilians were killed by shelving area of this saturday with upholding stations, and now only left open for one more hour to 48 p. m. close that it is nearing near the end of day 2 of voting and the 2024 russian. the presidential election. it as being a turnout so far. the numbers off the postings, 51 percent without guests and correspondents, tiny bites to stick around. we're going to be live with you just above the region. the 2nd part of the electorate is one of the country's most strategic solvent cities. the box, the pole in front of me at which were you and i did with last year i had decade ago

. it's the 2nd.