pushes up to that stuff, 16, the bottom that of course this will lead to also a, b, c dot shot. remember the bilateral relationship between both the countries, the business relationship, the economic relationship between both the company's has been growing. and the last couple of years we can talk about different sectors from oil to space, to trade that we've seen in numbers only go also remember the, the indian president, the indian prime minister, the incomes environment and stuff he does do for the general elections. and the next couple of months, the 4th of july is when the indian election results would be announced and automatically been in fact, we stopped put locks to settings a movie for that. and there's some sort of predictability this time. when you look at the numbers, all the opinion full is that pointing towards a detection, which is that. so i'm going to send that into the more the split, the good body mark. each one of the bossy is something that has more leverage over

the other boxes in india. so it will be interesting. it's an election. you also to see russia, those us as india. uh so it would be interesting to say it's been a few months time. so now we see a lot of them there. we've been congratulating mean to muddy and interesting and they are to correspond that runjun charmaya origin. thank you to all right, that's gonna do it for me for now, but to stay with us, my colleague, karen will be in next in about half an hour with some more of the day. so please, sorry about the, [000:00:00;00] the, [000:00:00;00] the

hello and welcome to cross talk. we're all things are considered. i'm peter live out. big talk empty words. how else to interpret the contradictory pronouncements coming out of european capitals on the subject of ukraine. bluster and threats are not a coherent policy. in fact, it is an indication of panic. meanwhile, remember russia does not bluff. it asked the cross talking ukraine. i'm joined by my guest, anthony webber in word think he is an independent political commentator in belgrade . we go to stephen gaiety. he is a research associate at bell grades institute of european studies, and in lisbon we cross alexander guerrero. he is an international legal analyst. right. gentleman cross talk roles and the fact that means you can jump in any time you want. and i always appreciate a steve, and let me go to you 1st. and in belgrade as an outside observer,

like i am of all of this going on in europe a who's speaking for whom. and what is the message when it comes to ukraine? steven, that is a very good question because we see a lot of move walkers here who are sending different messages. and i think that is because they are in between the maple agenda, which is escalade story. and if the situation to ukraine and with there are really 3 industries, we're going better, they would probably even be more aggressive. and on the other side, they have their own people who have no idea why the, how are their armies already involved when it comes to sending aid and perhaps people. and they are especially not happy about the possibility of direct a war between these respective countries. in the rush, so that is why the politicians are jumping on on this hot rocks and trying to somehow navigate between between the agenda that they all have and,

and their own population. so that is why we hear shots say one thing or on the other as well. look around this name is been mentioned already, anthony, let me go to the only thing with chrome and, and napoleon have in common as they were both small men. other than that, there is no similarity here. why is the crown mousing off the way he does? remember at the beginning of all this, he was the dog. now he's turning around and calling anyone that disagrees with them, a coward. what's the evolution of a crowd near as well he's, he's bullied back to the topics on multi site because he's downsizing from something that's the key piece. this is the role with the piece yet. encouraging. uh, the escalation is somehow encouraging piece, which is absolutely ridiculous. but some business, right, but not quite installed certain very job in the past and started the pro is not

super clear. um i will try to unify but the mail that's a um are you got paper like nights i saturday general site and what you'd probably needs is, i mean ition. i'm not swear the quotes of dates, hunter, i should because they, the reality is throughout europe there's actually no unification. that's all that we're speaking with different voices. you called the president trying to cite the united states when they are actually knots. and we've got a situation here where the guys have to face the fact that the client is actually been losing this conflict for some considerable time and how they actually going to deal with that. but the added problem is there's a loss of elections in the countries to see it. yeah. and the key points

about all of this is not one uh, trunk tray. perhaps a pop. i've been also opinion. so i don't know if these policies are gates, russia. i'm supporting the current governments in the price of any mind i will set that up and that's very key. i'm going to talk about democracy. there's no democracy, there's always more money. oh, this huge expenditure public money without any overall. and so you, for this, this isn't supposed stomach is or not light in particular ball or in the united kingdom is spent 12000000000, sorry, the fall, cho, built in, which is solely need to develop. i is not the same. so i'm assumptions are getting frustrated, rebounded the cases are the so type, huge rises and the costs of energy and the costs of living. and it's a disaster situation. i bought the pump that can also allow me to have an opinion on this is a big uh, there's

a lot said about the fact that people in russia doesn't have an opinion which allowed say, golf fords in the u. k. e. uh the, the media's some controlled, but you call another well you, you could have an opinion, it'll just be censored. okay, that is, that's their method that alexandra, you know, we had the lot being president in the i refer to the ball to republic says the baltic chihuahuas on this program. he said he was quartered in saying russia must be destroyed. well, isn't that nice coming from a little country like lafayette and also we have other baltic republic saying that the u. k. should return conscription. so how do you react to that? it's nice that another country banks, another country, should have conscription. what is a lot, be a good to throw into the, into the mix here. i mean, how many you halls, full of weapons do they have alexander? it's easier for them to say this, the i kind of catching the wave and the reminded me that plastic case of the

younger brother who trusted deezen bully, everyone because he knows that he has an older brother that can go to his rescue in case of trouble so he seems to me that the 3 residents from the baltic states are on the heads of the argument. they're behaving this way because they know that they have someone on their back that will try and please not only to follow what they are saying, but at the same time to protect them and to, to confirm these words. however, lucky and not only has nothing but we have only a also see weeks ago that for example, denmark promised to send all the material artillery. they had the support to bring . and then you realize it's only 14 how beach this so it's not much, but the police are the finally called yes. what they're trying to say is that we are giving whatever we have a speaking of prescription, for example. i speak for him knowing the situation in menu opinion and countries is easier to say for granting is to keep fighting until the last 2 brain. but when it comes up to the,

to the situation where our own citizens should be deployed to the metal ground to the battlefield, that's a whole different story. that's kind of solution. usually most the majority of the people did not support. we don't want to send our signs, our grandchildren to the war, but we won't be other support for us. because if you see, even from france's, press the press for french residents words. what she says usually is we are pointing to the boy as some of the lead gary, in some way, are you great? and she wasn't. she was too vague. but at the same time, she is not saying that she's going to confront the russia because she knows how unpopular such words would be understood by the french or from what i understand alexander's a, it's 6768 percent of french people. paul, do not want french soldiers going to ukraine. again, this is an elite agenda, you know, stephen, one of the things, you know, when i look at these european leaders and i don't know, my, i guess i'm a chrome,

this has an inferior already complex or he's competing with sergeant schultz or something like that. anyway, we don't need political science, we need psychologist, i suppose, to understand these people, but you know, the moral ization rusher must not be allowed to wait. and what does that mean stephen? that means that they have a problem with the numbers and reading what is going on on the ground, but it is also a very dangerous spot because these words can eventually turn it into into moves which will cause escalation. the scenario, the possible scenario that i see is that uh at the beginning you would have made the forces over to enter west virginia and practically police a occupied to be quite blunt. uh, they would privately be occupation forces in ukraine in central advice, and you're trained perhaps you have to, but they're the point of them being there. a would be to release old,

the police man, all the national guard and honor security forces of ukraine to go to the me drive or in the east. and that is how i call a slow escalation and slow. and i think involvement that can actually become a lot of i was even stephen easy. you bring up an interesting point here. so if you are ukranian, cells are being sent to the meat grinder and there's some french guy sitting in a cafe in care. but what do you think he's gonna think my life is worth less than the french guys? steven? exactly. i think they are, they, i mean, this was done from the beginning, but i think now they're starting to realize that on the front you see that the people are doing everything to try to not end up in the mead rides or people are driving the local uh, maybe 3 authorities, they're trying to rescue themselves by running away on the border and they're being

cost and then sense to the mean grinder. i mean, this is the dire situation of man in ukraine is really something that should be uh, called a humanitarian catastrophe. but it is not, i mean, this is against, uh, uh, the, the, the war war. this is against any kind of, uh, so let's say ethics of war, but that is exactly what we're seeing. well, i'm glad i'm glad saving you brought up the word ethics here. let me go to anthony . now, i mean lindsey graham oh, pines again. you know he's complaining of the conscripting age is too high. they need to lower. we need to get these younger guys here. i mean, it's just amazing to see how western politicians are willing to do using ukrainians as cannon fodder. and the always that, you know, american troops. i mean, what a ghoulish way to approach things, anthony. yeah, yes, it's terrible. the loss of the psycho breast and read is not are actually has the amount of tree experience themselves. sites are quite happy for other people to

type type the races, but not them are not very uh, sons endorsers and a such as i said to try to find the situation because of the printing casualties. saint paul, a 1400000 pets died weight and did this again, not shit and watch it on the on to suddenly the washington casualties about 288000 equivalent. so the situation is understandable from the crime point of view . and it's probably much like the starting grace of nazi germany where people were starting to surrender up to the old mass. but there were a few die off people around. but it's concerning a bit of as some people, particularly in the united states, and indeed in the country who will be happy for the ukrainian

bio population. but states are be wipes out just to satisfy that, right? so the, it's a blood glass. last is what it is here, gentlemen. right here, we're approaching a hard break and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on you can stay with our team. the look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings accept. we're such orders at conflict with the 1st law show alignment of the patient. we should be very careful about our personal intelligence. the point obviously, is to makes a trust rather than to the various jobs. i mean with artificial intelligence, we have somebody in the

robot most protects this phone. existence was on the we are in north of cities in the congress has mountains where beautiful people have been coming together to celebrate the ancient traditions. since the beginning of time itself, where everything has a special symbolic meaning. i'm so i'm thomas, this isn't my vision. and today we're discovering of the world of a subject culture, the the, what is part of the, the employee would post that isn't the,

the 1st 2 of us in that, in the world. but is it something deeper, more complex, might the present good? let's stop without pages. let's go products. as the welcome act across ok, we're all things are considered a computer without your mind you were discussing. you create the ok. let's go to alexander in listen, let's keep with this, this theme of a true, a nato troops being sent to central ukraine, western ukraine as an exemplary for sort of something like that. we train, wow, i don't know. um, but you know, is that is, is there a built in assumption on the part of nato think or is if that's not a contradiction in terms of that the russians wouldn't dare to touch those troops.

that's a pretty big assumption to have. alexander. yes, decent the next step. of course, the russians, i can see the russians having to, we're logging dash to hit nato's troops wherever they are, regardless if they are in a so terry 3 story they are in your brain, west of eastern, west and central, whatever. but at the same time, we have just before present to the to see what's, what will be the mission of these nathan troops are, where are they going to be deployed as are only the french spots are obese, posted by the french? or are they going to be at the grey sponsors by nature of this will be a decisive factor in order to decide and when the stand talking, the russians deal with these forces at the same time. because we have seen so far that there are a lot of military stocks from the 2 countries. a great not only gather huge board meetings, not only for the technical purposes,

but they have been there and many of them have been dying in the battlefield. the problem is to see if they are going to attempt to bring new troops in certain areas, or if they are going to start any kind of look at the action in order to force rupture to a deck and then use rest. yes, all addictions 1st in 1st place, but i don't see any kind of being fashion from nato countries or even by france alone. you start any kind of contact, ultimately contact our cameras, but i would render if they're in the battle field, they're in the battle space. what differences a make, i don't think, you know, if these forces, whatever they're doing with their aiding and abetting a military to kill rush themselves or so they are the enemy as well. how could it be different? yes, the problem is it's like basically it means that they are on the ground wireless police through the present time to have never admitted that. they weren't the battle wrong. they weren't the battlefield. they were not the only friends. they're not only german, the police, but also from the united states. they have b u,

during confrontations. the problem is that people look funny. now that they are assuming you'd be bodily, then they want to start to use it as being some kind of rigor in order to go to create any kind of tension, a possibility with russia. okay, talking about triggers. well then stephen, let's, let's think about it logically, i know western leaders, they'll do this, okay. but, you know, then, you know, we have the article 5 come into into play here, okay? i mean, if, if they're going to go into the battle space, okay, and there is a exchange, there are casualties, then they're in a stage of war. but then nato cannot invoke the article 5 because they've already violated article one, that they would not go into a military conflict here. so i mean they're, they're shredding their own logic and their own law. go ahead, stephen. we're going into a philosophical discussion now because what nato has been doing for the last 2

years, if not much longer, is to get involved as much as possible into the war box for the rest of the world. the thing that nato is not into words so phrase us treasury policy has made its coalition for munitions. and so they are gathering thank rather than deployed 800165 millimeter cells from they, they claim they bought it in, in the south korea and other countries and other major companies are involved in this kind of wherever they are presenting a digital committee the, this is a, some kind of call issue of the willing, remembered the phrase from 2003 when bush a back to iraq. so it wasn't made, so it was called vision of the willing. so what they're doing now is executive, that may 12th, all right, well see what i can up the anti here. adeline. a better bach? what 1? 80 degrees? better boxy wants to have somehow german missiles are sold to the british so the british can send them to ukraine. i don't know what kind of food was gonna be

raised to them. and by the way, it would see for some reason not the defense minister would be able to control coordinates. i'd be a, this is getting insane and somebody react to that. well, the, it is insight and we've costs are pretty insane. the on the defense, i prefer i dropped start, sees likely to, to get along with that. but there are consequences for the congress rate, which um, i'll get started, hopefully involved in helping uh, pricing eco, russian soldiers and in the u. k. do you guys just lost the major fishing agreement with brochure um, which is to do, but it's the, it's the staple dogs and maybe people in the united kingdom, official objects and go back out to see a scar or to increase in the price of fish in the united kingdom because that's the thing we're talking about. i think ross is actually being for moderates and it's

a reaction to various european country. so the anthony, let me this on this special issue here. so the british public will be denied fish, but the russian public will be able to eat fish. yeah. how is that a sanction as well? just the, i'm sorry, go ahead. well, well, they've already found it again. see if i can get them like the looks of it. consequences of having such a policy because the, the due date. so i can sure exactly work, but if we guys thought, so the subject said people killed is only the b, 5900. the 62 on soldiers killed in, in the ukraine. a good proportion of visor in the united kingdom. and uh, it's been a bit of a cover all how much longer of the percentage public goods be denied the

information because they're supposed to be you guys have delta dental of intelligence to help with the training to make sure re 5 ohms is all i all right, but in reality that helping directs offensive operations again, instruction forces. i'm not so now i'm not a rule of this. they know paul meant show a pharmacy in the united kingdom. and so you can talk to more like actions against russia and already the united kingdom and government. so maybe i'll take out the events all trucking a very fine line with volt battery. well i, i suppose this is one of the applications of the rules based order that we keep hearing about. ok, you break all the rules because we want to control that determine what is order. this is ridiculous here. alexander you, we have speaker johnson in the united states is. 4 asking about

a stand alone bill for more a ukraine. i thought he'd come to his senses, but he hasn't. of course. um, an interestingly enough for republican house control, there's going to give bite in the political, wind, and election year. explain that to me here, but it's not going to make any difference. anyone that knows. i've listen to a lot of military experts and this was just way, okay, of course companies in the united states, they will of a benefit, but this is not going to benefit ukraine. to be honest, i think that the, even speaker johnson doesn't know what kind of a stand alone they tech is. will this be because he's proposal still presents very vague tires. we both know yet how is it even going to be submitted on the formal way, but at least appears that she will try to boost for some kind of single and autonomous proposal disconnected from a barrel of concessions that the 2 other political masses sought by democrats and by rebuttal, alexander it's been mentioned here, um, a new land lease. i don't even think the majority of congressmen even know with

that term historical term is how is that work? i mean, ukraine is couldn't pay the united states back after all of this. i mean, the either they, they don't know anything about history or they're just finding a new way to live the people. alexander, it was kind of that, that for example, president former president trump this weekend and just call for that kind of alone, lowering least that this is simply just does not exist in practice, for example, even in the union, we have exactly the same aspect. we keep funding, we are way to find your brain and you granary, lowly start to pay back up to 10 years within 10 years. so i did, but no one knows. and everyone at the same time knows how will you brain going is going to pay for? well, i think there, there's a, there's a way that no one's thought about as they should tax ukraine's oligarchy. because they are the ones that are making so much money off of this work. i mean, the basement side and personal, you know, loan, you know, that, you know, they're going to pay it back. of course, it's nonsense,

that's not going to happen here. we're rapidly running out of time, steven. i think this is a, we're the kind of a turning point here. i think there's so much panic and desperation in the air that we have discussed on this program. um, where's and what's the next step? where are we going? the one thing that the west is the only advantage again being the desperate because of both, instead of just to drink his victory speech that russia does, it does not want a fake piece which will last for a year and a half or 2 years. so that the, uh, you know, uh, military industrial complex uh, in the western countries uh, gets uh ahead of the game so that they can send enough weapons to the front line. so russia was a political solution, and i think the political solution with the parents leads in the west and with the

current a government in ukraine or even ukraine as such, is possible. that is why i expect, uh, russia to secure its borders. i'm putting, again said that there should be a buffered so that the cities in, in russia are safe and secure. yeah, i mean there's, you know, do we have on this program? we have talked about this quite a bit. and my only concern is, is that i want an end to this conflict immediately. ok. however, in russia does not want to be put into a position where ukraine re arms for 5 years, and they start all over again. that is the problem. that's the problem. keep go, go ahead. that is why west wanted the career scenario. the more i would create north korea, north, south korea situation in the middle of europe. and russia doesn't want that. it doesn't want to have a constant threat on its borders, but it wants to have a, a sustainable security architecture in european content. and it is,

this is exactly what it was proposing some 1015 years ago, and what it was continuously proposing during the meetings based agreements and uh, even until today. but they are not going to be willing to go for another fake agreement, which will only buy time for uh, for a 2nd. uh, if they punch that, russia, i should, uh, should guess from the west. uh so that is why i think it's more inflict as much damage as it can and it will probably uh solve this uh in military. yeah. so what it must in worst security is guaranteed for all i don't know how we do that, but that's how it must and or, oh this will happen again gentlemen. that's all the time we have a one to think, my guessing where they build. right. and, and elizabeth, and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at

r t c. and next time, remember across our girls, the of the thing that would inform you to have with them for the gifts, but the sort of celia was missed because they did just wouldn't care to get the car through the new year. oh for g like teach. so i know from the kitchen the scholars should thoughtful and you've cheated us. i'm going to last, i look forward to you with that the for, she's in the ocean by cheap. and when you move, move them on the stairs from the 1st month and most of the amount of water to move many. so what the competing animal just i get i as well as to the lowest quality, i'm all of that. so i'm going to, i'll study to the progressive rock, i use it a shot finish. this is just all just for good news. i'm a section and for them to come seem to do friday is the material ordering some of

our people from the for sure. interesting. and the temperature of the intention to some of this, the sky warns powers that his troops will be legitimate targets in ukraine as well as foreign intelligence chief phase, 2000 and french. so just like daring up to deploy the powers with posted, lee joins wolf thorn calling to limit the impulse of ukrainian grain. and they just placing protests by farmers across the us from an in northern gauze imminent, according to an independent analysis on the new n food programs that's, it is well continues to book the left for ease a few monetary and 8 to the end today. plus we heard from a defendant of