the, the done best thing, central russia, forcing hundreds of people at the sleeve. it's danger zone in the state of emergency has been declared any expected region of our him. but the world central kitchen and organization says israel lacks any credibility to investigate the killing of its 7 workers in gauze, not south of the only the claims it sold. it was targeting, how much splendid no father of life and death decisions which impacted the side of sammy leaves, should be delegated to the cold calculations involved with artificial intelligence . but in very real consequences, the un secretary general can damage is well for a quote to be using a i to identify how must target and improve this results in thousands of civilian

casualties. cards bearing $33000.00 plus the lives was in the thousands take to the streets of to how name supports of those in palestine as a spill invest holdings, goal is the rose as the high end. well, those are your headlines. have it all to international. we will have a full breakdown of all those local news shortly. but for now, is that the, there's an old adage at least here in the united states, that there's no such thing as bad press. well, that's not the case. if you're boeing, the giant american aircraft manufacturer, boeing has been in the news a lot literally, and none of that news has been good. i'm not talking just about the companies

$737.00, max h, crashing and killing everybody on board. i'm talking about other issues in one case, part of the fuselage broke off a plane in mid flight creating a gaping hole in the side that nearly sucked out a 17 year old passenger. in another case, a tire fell off a boeing plane during take off destroying a car in the airport parking lot. and yet another, an external panel fell off a plane in mid flight and nobody even noticed it until the plane landed. and in the midst of all this, a boeing whistle blower, providing ongoing testimony on safety issues committed suicide. the . 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 boeing has long been the largest airplane manufacturer in the world . sure. it's not connect with air bus for years now, but boeing also has a massive military division, providing aircraft,

and aircraft parts to the us into allied military's. the company is worth a whopping $112000000000.00. boeing used to be one of those companies that literally, everybody knew and trusted. there was a time in the not too distant past when practically, every passenger plane in the united states was made by boeing. the company was the biggest employer in the us state of washington, and even the 2 senators from washington were known as the senators from boeing. but things have changed over the years. the company has faced increased competition from airbus, the european aircraft manufacturer and air buses successfully sold plains to us carriers along the sol domain of boeing. a few years ago the company moved much with operations to the southern us state of south carolina. because washington state is a union state and south carolina is not that way the company could pay lower wages to non union employees. things went downhill from their and it's still unclear if

what boeing is seeing is a breakdown and safety a break down in leadership. a break down in the manufacturing process or just plain bad luck. but whatever it is, the company is facing the prospect of billions of dollars in fines and lawsuits in the future. that is not at all bright. we're happy to be joined by jamie finch. he's the former director of government, public and family affairs, and of the communication center at the federal government's national transportation safety board. jamie, thanks so much for being with us. let me get out of me. i appreciate that, jamie, i'll admit that i didn't really start paying close attention to boeing until just several years ago when to boeing 737 max aids crashed and killed everybody on board . we learned that there was a problem with the software and try as they might. the pilots could not regain control of the aircraft as they, as they plunged to the ground. lawsuits against boeing are still pending because of those crashes. at 1st, the company blamed the pilots,

but they finally admitted that it was actually a software problem. i did the company then enact any policy changes to strength and safety, or did they consider the crashes a one off that didn't really need to be addressed? at least a comprehensive way. no, they actually took it very seriously because there are, this is 737 max. here it has been the fastest of, of, of pain blaine series of the boeing is ever had. is 737 has been a workhorse since the 1960s. but this new max uh $737.00 is a totally basically its always new plan. the budget is based off of the old plan for boeing. did i have to take serious matters? is i take this very seriously and take them out as in their own hands because they were, oh, there's a lot of money to run. she lives a lot of passions of clients in airlines. they're, they, they put in a new can be a new software system. they update the software system for the m guess they put in

new pilot manuals. the training. ready pilots and a lot of other up some of the updates that were i essential and making sure that this did happen again. but these, these issues came from the fact that boeing tried to rush to the system and make the time get out faster they, they should have. i see, it seems like since the time of those, those 2 crashes now about 7 years ago, that safety is just gotten worse at boeing. i'm not talking about a simple software problem. i'm talking about overall safety. and indeed, the national transportation safety board issued a statement in january of this year saying that the onus was on the boeing not on the n t s b b a t. s b statement said very, very plainly, we are not bowing safety department. i can't imagine a clear signal to the company to get its act together of 5 what,

what happened next? well, i mean, it clearly there's an ongoing pro they, they do, they dropped off the head of some symbolic people including the ceo. but at the same time, don't feel sorry for him. he got this extraordinary good goal in paris you. i bet. so it wasn't like he was just based on this other wrote it, but some of the, in a few other people have not ever really seen or heard of anybody being taking any child accountable or trouble it if i add a seriously, how would you all that f, a, a at boeing, there shouldn't be more people, there should be more oversight. i think a lot of people, you know, into schuman nature, with, when you have time between is interaction. people just start to forget, it's not that they're not, they don't care or they're not. they don't want to pay attention, but they had to go about to wash them to get the work. they've got the big you move over your head 3 because all those kinds of things. and so this kind of goes into the back or the on the back burner of their mind until another incident happens

right now. um, unfortunately, well, unfortunately because of the pen demik, uh, a lot of this was put on or the back door of people's minds because they had so much of other things on the invite. and i think it's safe to say though, we're looking at where this is all coming from. it comes from the top down. i don't care who is saying that, you know, and who is actually doing the work on the board. the guys, i think the women on the floor of the factory, i got the ones who were making a decision. hey, listen, i get this finder was designed this thing some, some got differently or less to do a have crept job because they are put under a lot of pressure. but they're only following orders. they are, they're, they're, they're soldiers in this thing. they're not the leaders, right, you need to go out. you. ready leadership jimmy, just in the early part of 2024. we've seen more than a dozen safety incidents with boeing. everything from tires falling off 2 parts of

the fuselage, blowing off to electrical outages and even engine fires. am i incorrect in thinking that this looks like a systemic breakdown and maintenance, maintenance and safety even? how can something like this happen almost every day? and why is it happening to boeing and not to other manufacturers? right. you know, i have a 2 minus night my to my isn't this one. um, you can say that these are just horrible coincidences that have happened. and also a lot of these things that you've mentioned are more of an airline problem than they bought dry. we'll following, all right, the sort of balance, those things are maintenance issues and we have problems can happen whenever you have a human to validate situation. you have a human error and that's the number one cause of axes. and this is an incidence is and so that is where i would really concentrate on, on the sage of procedures in the true,

in the training that these people are getting. are they getting the proper training? are they being properly supervised? is their proper check of their work? i think that the airlines and others have tried to cut back and cut that cost because profit is much more important. now as i say that they want it cause a crash that they don't want to dressed as a truck, a, a crash is very expensive to them both as far as the monetary but it was a we monitor only as far as just cause of it that way, but also the cost of their reputation. so um, which boeing's, other part or i just think that the main problem is what is all going on is that they have it everybody's really focused like right now. i think these a lot of these things happen all the time anyway, but everybody's really, really focused on the and t s. b statement that it's not boeing, safety department in mind. what do you think happens next?

i can't imagine the government just trust boeing to do the right thing. what's the process of oversight that we should expect to see? well, you see it was this entire process and the way they think they've been doing it for the last decade or 2. maybe a little bit more, they've had this like this relationship where if he does not have the resources to be able to monitor everything, as you probably should, is really able to, excuse me, is really not able to, to do that. so that's, that's good creative. this deal with boeing, where they would share responsibility and going with self reports. yes. now this is completely when the 110 percent, depending on trust. and now there's that trust has been broken and it, and boeing is proven to be a bad player in this. so you have, uh, you know, this is backlash going on. now at the same job, boeing figure decided, but we've been getting away with murder because everybody has to be paying attention. you could also say that some of the people that are f a that were

supposed to be watching them. and being oversight, have we're not doing their job properly because guess why they wouldn't find a job with boeing actually enough to have that believe if a so there's a lot of a chevy odds here that needs to be flushed out and get to the bottom of this because ultimately at the end of the day we're talking about we're talking about people's safety and their lives. ready number 2, we're talking about thousands and thousands of jobs across america. when people are around the world, without a doubt, jimmy finch, former national transportation safety board officials stay right there. the story gets darker, we're going to continue our conversation about safety at boeing right after a short break. you're going to want to stay tuned. 2 2 2 or the

the part of our executive, and i'm here to plan with you whatever you do. do not watch my new show. seriously . why watch something that's so different. whitelisted all opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to please, or do they have the state department, the c? i a weapons, bankers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead. i changed and whatever you do, don't want my shell stay main street because i'm probably going to make you

uncomfortable. my show is called direction, but again, you probably don't wanna watch it because it might just change the way you say. welcome back to the whistle blowers. i'm john to reaku. we're speaking with jamie finch. he's the former director of government, public and family affairs and of the communication center at the federal government's national transportation safety board. jamie, thanks again for being with us. a sure many of us were appalled when we learned of the death of boeing whistleblower john mitch barnett. he. busy saw a dozen safety inspectors at the boeing manufacturing plant in south carolina. boeing had moved production of the 787 dreamliner to south carolina. at least, he says, to get away from the machine is to union. the problem was that there weren't enough qualified machinist in south carolina, and barnett soon said that his job was

a nightmare. can you lay the groundwork for us here? what was the nature of the problem that barnett encountered early on as well? i mean it's just like i said, i mean they don't do it to me or personally, i don't blame boeing from. ready me to the state whether there was they was on union for they need to be more prepared for this because if they don't think they're going to have the employees down there and it should be able to do to properly may change or their factory and their quality of their product. that's a huge back mistake on their part. and that right there. i mean like i said, i don't have a problem with their moving and try to save money. but the same time they're trying to move. they save money at the cost of safety. um it is great for south carolina is great to see the jobs coming into the south. um, it is great to see uh the wells, make sure if you will, in other states, but at the same time you've got to have the resources, the tools, the people to,

to be able to support a brand. and most of this is very necessary to train them properly. i don't care how, what level is trained them properly. barnett said that in the washington manufacturing facility, each safety inspector was in charge of supervising 15 mechanics in south carolina. each safety inspector was supervising 50 mechanics and many of those mechanics he said, were working in restaurants a month earlier, can not possibly be true or, or was he exaggerating? is the root of the problem? here, as simple as the allegation of boeing did, choose profits over safety and didn't have enough qualified personnel. so i mean, i don't know, but the get the on the for the say it's true or not. i mean, i can't get the feeling in a basically we can't ask him out with, it's a, it's unfortunate with it's very sad situation, but he's also very suspect. our guys, i just really, really suspect. yeah. of these co is it, is that happen?

that's right. for boeing, um and uh, but after you imagine if you're going from 15, the mechanics that you said you supervising $250.00 crazy. i mean, that was, that's quite true. i mean, you know, because we haven't been doing all those. and so it's, it's, it's really irresponsible and surely to goodness they could have found somebody even if they had to go post somebody from airbus horse for the right fire embry or something from each other as well. i mean, we can, we can brand any buttons and definitely putting in the, the, going uh, going at the universities and school and, and, and bringing in these, these young people to train them to be, you know, who are engineers to begin with. but you proud to train them in the boeing way. we're just here with the boy way is now, but it was, it is something that of that we need to really get. they do really need to get back to because boeing was always an engineering company. i don't want to emphasize this

. that was their culture. that was their background. that was the nature of the company that they started out with from the beginning. but when they were quite or i'm sorry when they acquired mcdonald douglas in the 1990. for whatever reason, boeing to go on to mcdonald douglas calder, which was more about profit and bottom line. uh huh. i have no idea why they did this, but they and they did. and i think that money motivation people start seeing the money. certainly people making the making money and they're like, ok, well we'll stay with this small or that is better than our model was just costing is award. is me where is profitable before? um. i don't care what your profit is. if you're out here selling. i like tronic this transporting people at 35000 feet in the air going 600 miles an hour. you better have a dog on good black product. it's something that is going to be a safe and secure and something we can all feel good about getting into not trying to get our change our flights and enjoys are or travel plans to get off of that

plane. that's right. mich barnett was so appalled at the safety over sites at boeing that he became a with to blower. and he had been given testimony in this major civil suit against the company he had provided to depositions, but then earlier this year, just before he was scheduled to appear for a 3rd time to give a deposition, he killed himself in the parking lot of a hotel what kind of pressures do you think he must have been facing? do we know any of the details of his testimony in these depositions or what may have driven him to to make such a such a drastic move? 12, obviously there's issues if he's raising that were very important and very relevant to what's going on. um, now did you want to play devil's advocate? there's those who say, oh, this is somebody that was just got all the extra grind that was that i get into their job because they were having an affair which i have written somewhere. the one of the papers,

jessica shocker be hearing it. i just thought that these because what i was reading was, this is not, this is not actually what happens like in just a problem. these are distractions. yes. so he was having an affair. he was having, he was doing this was a lot of, i know too much stuff talking about that just get to the problem. stop trying to put to smoke string this image get to the problem. and um, you know, it's, it, it makes it very scary for people who want to be a whistle blower because you're always told, if you're was a blower and you're protected. mm hm. now let's, let's just say this. the shauna did have problems and issues like the in the we've all seen. so as, as having that come out of the blue. but dog kinds of things so suspicious. oh, i mean, it has, i thought so too. i have to say that of the timing of this doesn't make any kind of sense to me. if he decided be a whistleblower years ago. and by all accounts, he had an incredible memory and was able to recall very specific dates and events that took place on those dates related to safety related to inspections. if you've

already given to comprehensive depositions and you're preparing just a few days later to give a 3rd comprehensive deposition, then why? at that point, would you take your life? the timing just doesn't make any sense to me. you know, it doesn't make any sense. and then quite frankly, if you're going to do something like that within you were upset about something else. when you break something down as a, as a point of your life, just lead me to protect what you've done. i just, i root is just, it just smells so as far as, oh yeah, it just thinks the inappropriate behaviors. i couldn't agree more. and that actually leads to another question is he was the star witness. he was the one providing the most comprehensive information. so what happens to the civil suit when all of a sudden he's not there and not only is he not there,

but boeing is not going to be able to cross examine him in a court of law if this were to go to trial. now it's 5, i have no idea what the, what the, what the legal ramifications are and what the next steps are as not they're not being in for an attorney. but i can't imagine people just saying, oh, well, he's gone, we're not going to go any further into this world. gosh, you're going to look at this. somebody's gonna have to pick up the manual. and uh, you know, if you're having a company that is not doing what it needs to be doing it and is, is as its responsibility in doing, you have a company that is fighting against the n t s b and resisting during those things and, and all of a sudden they can't find the, the, the records where they, they fix the plug in the door and the, the repair records. i mean, on, i mean, just as all this adds up, it's almost like a, a bad novel australia to

a john grisham. quite honestly, yeah. but not what it was good was that is it is, it was a um, it, they just got somebody. somebody has to pick up the black metal and i imagine it has to be congress. you know, it is somebody was a real authority to do my. ready happy, i couldn't agree more. i couldn't agree more and a, you know, this is an ongoing problem all over government is it really is up to congress to provide the appropriate oversight. but then even congress as loaded as many of us, you know, tend to think that it is, they don't have the staff for comprehensive oversight. and so it's this, this cycle that just keeps rotating. really a bit, let me make one more opposite version of congress. i'm glad you brought that up, is because he said the don't have enough staff to angela. they don't with the same job. they were more countries run by children. i never did. and it seems like it's 12 years old. and,

and they're big over to her left to right all the time. yes. and so it should be the only thing that they don't pay a least for a relationship like, you know, i was a young kid once i'm working in washington. i know it works. you go to the hill, you work the hill and then you find a contact and you go get everything jobs or that's right, that's how it works. that's right. but this because, you know, since you've had to do it to the staff, the staff on congress thing through capitol hill in congress have, have rotated in at least 3 times. and now there's a few. but the overwhelming majority is all these people have no corporate knowledge in memory of what is going on. yeah, so true. is there any momentum now for safety changes at boeing? jamie, do you think that company has finally hit bottom and can begin repairing itself and, and will the government ensure that improvements actually are implemented? i think that delay, you're going to see improvements with boeing and, and in getting them to do stuff in the bottom line. is money that has the

airlines, if the airlines are buying a product and guess what? you've got a problem that you are going to be losing billions and billions of dollars and, and let's. ready remember that, as you mentioned early on in the beginning of the interview, boeing has a huge presence in defense of that huge, really huge and, and that's where their bread and butter really is now. right. but their reputation part is more on in the commercial air space. area because not a lot of people don't know what they do in, in defense of space. those types of things. is there a really involved? yeah. and so it's not just about aviation, you know, planes, course of large commercial aircraft is also about the defense issues to be a huge, huge contracts. and, you know, they've got to get to the point where they are stopping the bleeding of money.

and that's what there's going to drain them dry so they don't get into a controller. that's right. jamie finch is a former national transportation safety board official. thank you for your take on the boeing and on the death of mitch barnett. so ryan appleton, a british safety advisor, one said safety is not an intellectual exercise to keep us in work. it is a matter of life and death. it is the sum of our contributions to safety management that determines whether the people we work with live or die. he was right, of course. now we'll see if boeing can live by those words. i want to thank our guest, jamie finch for helping us to understand this complex problem. and thanks to our viewers to for joining us for another episode with the whistle blowers, i'm john kerry onto we'll see you next time. 2 the

take a fresh look around his life kaleidoscopic isn't just a shifted reality distortion by power to division with no real opinions. fixtures designed to simplify will confuse who really wants a better wills, and is it just as a chosen for you, fractured images, present it is, but can you see through their illusion going underground? can the, what is a part of the, the employee would post that isn't the deepest, do you of us and bidding the word,

or is it something deep but more complex might be present good. let's stop without cases. let's go to the product of the page, just a little reminder, once again, as we get started here, we post a show now every day used to be a weekly. now we're doing this daily. we've gotten a great response from so many of you because we hold no punches, so look for it to pump. number one, it looks like a huge israel may have killed chef hole say on dressers, volunteers with a precision guided missile, a precision guided missile. what does that say to file number 2?

us military officials are now saying no way to the floating peer off of the gods the coast idea. i'll tell you why they're saying that. truthful i'm number 3. the white house press secretary loses her mind when asked about the president's dementia. i'm going to play it for you so you can hear it. i'm rick sanchez. this is direct impact. the ok, so as we begin today, i want you to look at the photos of the vans that were bombed by israel. let's put them up so folks can see him. thanks. tie. there it is. that is one of the vans that carried the volunteers who were trying to help feed starving palestinians to see that whole. they were part of the world central kitchen run by the famous chef jose andreas. see that whole? it's right there on the top of the van, right?

you know what that says, the military hardware, experts, it tells them and they have been telling others. but that's the work of a precision guided missile. that leaves that impression and what does that mean? it means the people who fired it chose their target. specifically. in other words, it's not a case of oh, wrong place, wrong time, collateral damage that kind of thing. i mean, when you look at the van, it's mark clearly with the logo or the well known relief group. everyone including the id f, knew that they were there. and the big yellow colors and signs, and by the way, isn't in israel considered among the most technologically advanced countries in the entire world. so how does this happen? and how does it happen again? and again, of course, israel is going to say, well, we're going to investigate the united states is going to say, okay, and if it's anything like all the other atrocities that have occurred, they're not.