deduction, i is this worth procrastination, which in the case of gaza has been the prevailing attitude in denying the palestinians the long promised staying. but over the last 6 months. it's also been the way of tripping down over the most basic human rights of all the the right to leave. and i want to start by asking, what do you think makes it possible for israel to carry out his policies and for the rest of us to be sick and alteration, but to little or no avail? well, i mean, the problem, of course, is the decades and decades of impunity that the state of israel has been enjoyed. i mean from really, from the beginning, the early zionist, they sold a bridge and then later on the united states on the idea of creating a jewish state. um, you know, in the land of palestine basically uh saying that they were going to act as an outpost of western imperialism. and so the britain did the british and the later

and we see the united states, of course, you know, they basically they, they bought it, they basically agreed to act as the protector and, and, uh, you know, to basically, to, to, um, facilitate and allow and to be complicit and anything and everything is real good. so, so that's basically what we're seeing. i mean that it's, you know, this is where we are. i mean, it's been going on really for, really for over a 100 years in actual fact. absolutely. but in one of your articles here also some johnston, this carnage and gaza, may mark the end of this western allowed world order western imperialism based on the rules that are compulsory uh for the most but known binding for the west itself . now this is not the 1st time we've encountered the definitely consequences of western policy and western patronage. as in the case with israel. what makes the current situation and gaza so much different from what we saw before. and i've gotten a son in iraq in this area and lived in many other places. well, i mean,

like you say west or is it block receives hardly new and these kind of double standards have been really, really blatant. i mean, certainly, you know, ever since, since in ukraine as well, i mean, it's been so so blatant and so in your face that it really has been getting. uh, you know, uh, it's been getting intolerable. i think, to the, to the people of the world. but i think what's happened now is really just, you know, the skills have tipped basically, i mean it's a cumulative effect. but what's happening now in gaza is so outrages. and so clearly a genocide, it's a textbook case of genocide is one of my former colleagues and many scholars have called it. and yet we see, you know, full throttle support by the united states. and by many of the european countries, for israel it's only, it's only very, very recently since and after so huge amounts of public outreach. and after the killing of a, of a few european aid workers, it's only now is that finally we're getting to see just

a little bit tiny bit of maybe there's a little bit of pushback from the united states and basically your opinions. but most people in the world have basically had enough, and that's what we've been saying. we've been seeing this huge outpouring of support for the posting and people solidarity. and of course in response to clamped or an attempted clamp down on the part of a lot of european countries to try to prohibit showing the solidarity for palestine to, you know, outlaw band these protests. i mean, it's been really outrages, but it's just the thing is it's impossible to hide these kind of thing to anybody with the phone though. can see it can see what's going on. they can, you know, they're, they're, they're been faced with these video clips of, you know, this genocide of the knowing about abuses and being able to do something about those. um pieces are 2 very different things i heard the same . the western attitude has truly been rules for the north, for me,

and i think you're truly speaking here about the entrenched west. and the leads who been singing di populations fables about how glorious and democratic systems are. yes, without actually giving the people any ability to influence foreign policy decisions . and yet we are in a major electro here in both in the united states. i mean, the european union. do you think this time around ordinary europeans will be able to a fact the situation in any way through the votes? well, i think they already are, i mean the europeans and if you know, in particular, the americans, you know, we look and see what's the, basically, the main reason the biden is slowly and slightly, had been changing his too, because he's seeing that the, you know, his full throttle, supportive is really genocide is losing him. votes it could potentially, it could potentially means that he could potentially, i mean, i would,

i would argue it's pretty clear that he's going to lose the presidency. and that's the, that's the reason that he's been changing his doing just a little bit and same. you know, same thing we see, and you're like you very right. and you say it's the politically is the elite in these countries. that is, it has been supporting is real and is, you know, full was the lock, stock and barrel with what's been going on. but really the people are sick of it. the people have had it and they've, you know, they're sitting there, they've been, they've been sending this message to the political lead that they've had enough. and i think it really is going to change. but professor took a hash again to blame the devil's advocate. here we have seen over the last couple of years in the united states and to some extent in europe that people may elect a candidate and that the leads to despise. but then billy, to have that candidate to actually change the policy is very, very limited. and there was a, with a support, these are alone just to rhetorically that and huge invested in just involved. i

mean, we are talking about and many, many, and billions of dollars and huge of how are you know that people do not, and departs with slightly to be cynical about it, regardless of this out the range. and regardless of the sort of subtle rhetorical changes in the american policy, why would the powers that be in the west change anything about their behavior when they still have the largest world military under their control, as well as the library sofa international financial system wasn't the answer to us here. what's the motivation button here for them to do anything about it? yeah, look, there's little question about the political system of, you know, pretty much all of these countries and i'm including my own japan. the political system, you know, does not allow for the voice of the people really to be reflected. i mean, we've seen this time and time again, but um, you know, i am a, is it, it is the glass half full, or is it less of empty?

i tend to look at his have full and i'm a human rights guy and i, i think, you know, just as well when india and i do believe that. but, and, you know, it's to say that things can never change is not really true either. i mean, things can change, things do change and they can change and very, very suddenly in particular, in a place like the united states. so, you know, whether it's gonna take 20 years, whether it's going to take 10 years, whether it could even happen next year. you know, i don't know, but for sure the writing is on the wall. i mean things are changing for sure. now it's not just this latest assault on a gas and, but i think the entire historical situation around the enclave that serves as the play to me all 5 of the current international system which for decades let's face it institutionalized. they'll just impunity, but supremacy of uh, yeah, might override and i think to be fair, it's not just the west and the leads who have maintained and benefit from it. it's also the rest of the world that pretty much went along with it for whatever reasons

. i asked you before about the western waters. but i also want to ask you about people in other known western countries. do you think they may uh, stop sitting on the wall and um, you know, demand or a fax on change? it is not when the people of guys have done that lease form for their own sake. sure. well, i mean, i think many of them already have, i mean, we've seen, you know, great outpourings of solidarity with palestine. you know, clean slew of countries and not just predominantly in muslim countries either. so, you know, people have been, you know, in, in this just didn't most of the countries which we live in, you know, it's very, very difficult for the voice of the people to be reflected in actual policy. and certainly it doesn't happen immediately either. but definitely, you know, the thing is, you know, we look at even, you know, even the worst sort of dictate, are ships, you know, around the world. and the fact of the matter is, you know, even the most, the tutorial leader cannot call the shots without,

you know, completely over did they did, they can completely override the will of the people, you know, they do know that, you know, the people have to have a say, and when you have everybody with pitchforks outside, you know, trying to over through was trying to, you know, over through the government or at least, you know, so in expressing their displeasure with what's going on. you know, they do actually have to you, they do actually have to have to change, they have to change their tune. and we've seen that over and over. just assess if they have the caution you mentioned in most outrages dictators. and i think that's the tricky part. of this constitution because it's easy to sort of, uh, uh, put all the blame on the so called the 3rd chair and government says many western leaders have been on to sort of pro jack the negative behavior. then they themselves practice on to somebody else. but the, in this particular case we have uh, you know, supposedly, uh, one of the strongest democracies in the middle east supported by one of the strong

as democracy is in the west and the other produced as a very also project. if not to tell a tiring outcome, do you think it may actually or perhaps change the way we think about those matters? because i mean, i have, you know, my own agenda here, but i'm personally sick and don't so you know, this cliche and use of democracy versus a talkers. and because i think those terms have lost how long the original meaning they do not actually reflect the political realities rather than being used as a square labels for geo political manipulation. i completely agree with you, and i think the way, the whole way that we look at governance and the whole way that, i mean, and obviously i'm an international lawyer. so in particular, i'm looking at international governments. but the whole way, we look at governance and how the will of the people is reflected in the way things are run. you know, this really has to change and you know, i'm very confident we'll change in what way you know, we have to see and we have to, you know, we have to be vigilant and have to make sure that it's, it's changed in

a way which really you know, which really forwards true democracy and not you know, democracy that is for sale, which is really what we see in most of the so called democracy. and i would add that the people are in a true democracy, needs to be not only reflect in, but actually followed vickers, i think, especially in the western system. you, you, people, are people, people's concerns. i'm being heard in the pre electoral campaign. them being exploited. sometimes, but taking them and transforming them or putting them into an actual policies. that's a whole new endeavor altogether. and i'm not sure it's actually even feasible within the current, you know, western governing systems. but let's talk about it some other time for the time being. we have to take a very short break. we will be back in just a few moments, stay tuned. the,

the russian states never d as tight as i'm one of the most sense community best ingles, all sense and up the speed, the one else holes. question about this, even though we will ben in the european union, the kremlin machine, the state on russia to day and split the smooth neck, even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube. the question, did you say stephen twist, which is the

the, what is a part of the, the employee would post that isn't the deepest view of us and bidding the word part is it something deeper, more complex might be present there? let's stop without cases. let's go part of as the, [000:00:00;00]

the welcome back to the fort smith, sol took a high shape professor of human rights and piece site is at a soccer joe la quinta university in japan. now professor took a how she, i, you've been writing a lot about the current international system which despite all its rhetorical um, plat plan, just to equality and international law grew out of the explicitly on a quote on the predatory colonial system. and i think we both agree that the creation of israel as a zine est with this 70 plus a year explicit denial of the promise state to the palestinians is a, you know, it is very typical outcome of that system. it's not an exception. it's actually being the intended outcome. and i know it's a, it's a question for a noble piece. what price lorio, but i'm going to ask it any way. how do you think this institutionalized injustice could not be?

it's not the result. the priest reformed practically reformed in many ways. palestine is really the, the is really the mirror. i mean, it is really the embodiment of all the injustices of the international system. i know, you know, you hear you have a situation where you had, you know, you had people living in a land in their country and uh, you know, the international, the so called international community at the time. and keep in mind, of course, this is 1948 when you know, the united nations is still very new and still very dominated by the western countries because most of their economies are not yet uh, becoming dependent to the haven't get one their independence. but yeah, the, so you have the, so you have the situation and, and the so called international community of the time they sort of, they, they, they walk over and, and basically order the policies people to give over half of their country to these european calling us and it's the problem is that they will get down on state. and i

think at the time when this was being done, most nations actually, well, if at least including the soviet union, most organizations believe that the international community is going to fall on the problem is rather than uh, you know, procrastinating for several decades. well, almost a century now. yeah. well, i mean, presumably, presumably that's what the, the thought but, you know, look at it from the, from the get go. i mean, certainly i would argue that the whole mantra of the 2 state solution is based on the you know, this is based on the partition resolution. 1947, and basically this is, you know, a funded, this is the fundamental injustice still so called international community trots over and says, well, we got a great idea. why don't you give over half of your country do these european colonizers just just because we said so, you know, the whole sort of 2 state solution mantra that you hear over and over and over repeated ad nauseum by international. you know, our so called leaders, you know,

all of this is based on a fundamental injustice a and you know, and, and that's above and beyond the point the, the, the point, the fact that these really government has basically refused to, to, you know, contemplate any kind of sort of solution that was kind of to say solution. and in any case, you know, the fact that was impossible. anyway, the whole of the westbank is colonized with these real cause really calling these colon colonies died over all over the loan. so it was impossible any way. i mean, i really don't, i certainly don't know. i don't see that happening above and beyond the fact that it's a completely in just solution. i mean, is there a is no longer suggesting that is going after they had to stay and solution? what testing israel's primary motive at this time? i mean, i understand that you can get a sort of a to see through the online, but that looking at di policy is from the outside. what do you think they're trying to achieve? well, what israel has been trying to achieve what design is to have been trying to achieve

since 1947 as always been clear. i mean, there's never been any doubt about this. it's been, it's been, you know, we want all still foot. we want to drive out all the palestinians failing that. we're going to kill them all until we manage to do that. we're going to maintain in apartheid system which maintains the dominance of the jewish people over the palestinian. and that's always been the case. and you know, some scholars have called this a slow moving genocide. you know that the objective has always been genocide. the objective has always been to drive the palestinians out. you see all this kind of talk about, you know, this is the most right wing is really government is in history and, you know, nothing yahoo and all this sort of political shenanigans and surrounding himself with sasha. so yeah, all of this is true. but, you know, the fact of the matter is it is really, leaders have been doing this since 1948. nothing has changed. and if the, you know, we're the international, the system of international criminal justice, you know,

where this working in any way shape or form then is really political lead. it is not just net in yahoo and not you know, these fascist now, but it's really political leaders, you know, since at the very least since 1967 would all be in the dock because they have paul further more crimes and crimes against humanity. none of this is none of this is, you know, a secret all of this is out of the open. absolutely. i and i'm sure we both agreed that this level of impunity and empowerment on the part of israel, of what would have been impossible without the use military aid and is diplomatic fielding. but at the same time, you mentioned that uh earlier washington at this point of time loses more than a gains from israel. because back in the 40s into 8, his israel could afford to do that because the united states needed it as a, as an outpost in the region. nowadays, the joe politics has shifted and i wonder if you see any potentiality or for

washington, either living israel to its own devices or perhaps turning against that. well, certainly i see that possibility. i mean, i think that's a very real possibility. and you know, it's hard to imagine now when you like you say, when you look and see what's, what's happening in washington. but the fact of the matter is, you know, he's real and, and another 1st person to say this, you know, israel is not a strategic asset to the united states. i'm not even sure it ever was, you know, but right now he's real is a strategic liability and that's, you know, that's very, very clear. you know, people say, oh yeah, uh, you know, is real is are only the americans pro is really american. so i always realize are only ally in the least. well, the united states didn't have any enemies in them, at least until, until is real d as rallies and design this organizations approaches really, organizations and it supports and it has, you know, it has this network with in the united states. and then a lot of the european countries, the things they see the writing on the wall. that's why they are reacting in such

a violent way. they will not argue, i'm not even talking about the violence of massacres and gosh, i'm talking about, you know, within these western countries. you know, if you look at this, this furthering of the, of, of this, of this notion that, you know, any kind of criticism of the state of israel is anti semitic and therefore must be stamped out. must be prohibited and outlawed that. any kind of, you know, joining of the boy cod of this, of israel is anti semitic and should be, you know, against the law. you know, there's a, they've been going crazy with this, you know, over the past years and they do this because they see the writing on the wall. you know, i, i what, as a, what i was the young when i was younger. i lived in the united states as, as, of course, obvious from my assets. and, you know, when i was growing up the notion that in american university there would be anti, you know, is really a par tied week. and there would be an easy demonstrations against ignited cit, the american ally of is, are doing just inconceivable. and now they have this,

you know, they have these demonstrations that have these, they have these events, you know, all throughout the united states. and that's why these relays had been reacting so violently. that's why the zionist organizations have been, you know, threatening to cut the funding to these universities and all these kind of things. so they see, you know, that's why they, that's why they've been reacting in this way. because they see that they're losing the but now i don't want to do railer and discussion too much. so i, i'm going to both only one question about it, but uh, you mentioned to ukraine before. and when we look at how the ukrainian uh, problem sort of was created, i think there are lots of similarities with israel, the patronage system and the ukraine. sort of reaching out for military aid. you know the far right or fascist attitudes, de d and the united states would have an outpost that it can fully control in the, in

a strategic part of the world as well as this outcome of the strategic alice post. now trying to sort of rack the dog. if you understand what i mean, do you see any similarities here? do you think in strategy terms, it's a similar scenario of reaching out for, you know, for the patronage off of the greatest power of the greatest policeman in the world, and then trying to manipulate it to its own ins. well, i think, you know, i think pretty much all governments try to manipulate the stronger the stronger governments. and of course, the americans are the ones that are most open to manipulation. but certainly there's a lot of imperial overreach on the part of the united states. and certainly that's, you know, that's part and parcel of all these problems. and, you know, that includes the ukraine. of course that includes what's going on in palestine and all throughout, you know, all throughout the world. basically, you know, we have this country which has military bases, military presences. and last i checked with them with

a 160 countries. something really regents the same time, not providing its own. uh, women with maternity leave, states paid maternity leave it say yeah. or you or your health care. i mean, you know, in the fact of the matter is, you know, most americans use the vast majority of americans and people who are not, you know, independently wealthy. we're not 1000000000. here's the fact of the matters americans live in, or they live in fear of losing their job because the workers have no rights whatsoever. and you can be fired at the, you know, the, the, we move your boss um and they, they live in fear of losing their health care when the 2 are connected. of course, because if you lose your job, you lose your healthcare. this is a disaster. and they're afraid of being, you know, we're going shopping and being shot at by some crushes, i'm crazy. lunatic with a gun. so, you know, this is, this is, you know, this is the situation in united states and the thing is, many, many americans see this now they see, you know, they see that their tax dollars are going to the military industrial complex.

they're going to, you know, their, their proxy states like israel, at the expense of the american people, they can not only see what actually still is in their own lives. the few you brought on this issue of necessities, of origin in real life and respecting those necessities because that's what i was preparing for this interview. i discovered to my big surprise to, of the being a human rights lawyer is actually a very practical profession that it's not just about, you know, condemning some are still retiring the reasonings. it's actually about thinking through and advocating, negotiating dignified lives for the people who cannot do that on the, on their behalf. if you were representing the palestinians before, i don't know what some high authority, what kind of questions would your race, what kind of, you know, origin or real life issues that needs to be addressed for the palestinians to get

there. and you to have the basic human rights to be respective and also for peace to have a lasting chance. because i think these 2 are also very insignificant related. sure, sure. no, they are. they are, they're basically 2 sides of the same coin. you know, despite the fact that all these, you know, all the international policy makers tried to disconnect the fact of his really apartheid and the fact that there's really a pressure and then do we get a constant relations policy and rights with the prospect of the political solution just shows how, how high bankrupting the whole system is. and fortunately, i mean, look, you know, i mean, shoot me a nice lawyer and every is pretty much, every single internationally recognized human right is, is of the past and people are violated. you know, a systematic basis every single day impulse that's, that's, that's what it is. that's the situation. but 1st and foremost, you know, we have to look, i've got the right of self determination. this is the 1st, the 1st, right, the right it, that's the rated. and the 1st article of the 2 international companies sent human

rights. it is the what's called sort of the platform, right? it is the right of all right, just the right to have rights to sort of, you know, paraphrase are. and it's, it's, you know, without self determination, without the ability of a people to decide on their own political system and their own political future and to manage their own resources. then you know that any other kind of discussion of human rights is, this is going to be futile because there's just no way before and occupier for and colonizer is going to respect any human rights. this is not going to happen. so, you know, really, the main point here i think is the right of self determination. and, you know, from, you know, like i mentioned from 1947 at least, you know, many, most of the injured so called international community, or at least the ones in power have acted like there's an exception to self determination of palestinian exception. self determination, if there's any kind of good to ever going to be any kind of less than piece, you know, this really, you know, she was human rights protection,

particularly the protection of self determination. this really has to be at the core because otherwise, you know, we're just going to see the same thing over and over. professor, take a hash or we have to live in there and spend amazing talking to you. thank you very much for this conversation and thank you very much. thank you very much for sending off for those who cannot send up for themselves. well, thank you. thank you very much for holding and thank you for watching cold sarah. yeah, honey, was a part of the

as a result online, it was can be started by line, please can be satisfied for the importance of we can never be over stations. that transparency is extraordinary. john mystic patrice then just succeeded in finding documents that existed in making them available to the world public. i mean, what could be more than that by publishing information and sharing information with the public. he was exercising the right to free speech. he did so in the public interest was to so long realized, tends to me, uh, engulfing endlessly, to relate continuously. i know why advice may assume that no one who is the guy that illegals anymore wisely bought. adjustments for to be on

box weighing a $175.00 used to go to a death sentence. are we going to let that stay the this is like a reading wall, and i mean, this is a declaration of world is real time just being falls down on your part, thoughts as a draft to respond to sunday nights in fact, by iraq, the in the night sky is over israel with live, i'm fine on moder, of drones and missiles find by iran. and what it said was a tally is tory attack. while what's the latest real quick to launch their own? solve a criticism, it's around brochure and other countries cold, but the escalation and

a diplomatic solution. the