by the nazis in order to extra pay the be both of europe, the the hello and welcome to cross software. all things are considered on peter lavelle while the by the ministration many of its close as allies continue to shield israel with diplomatic cover. the international criminal court and the international court of justice speak for much of the world. if there is to be justice, it must be applied to all the processing palestine. i'm joined by my guess, lionel in new york. he's a legal and media analyst in town. we have well, how much mirandi is

a professor at the university of threats and sorry of what we crossed to solve takahashi, he is a former deputy head of office of the un human rights agency in occupied pablo sign . alright gentlemen, cross side gross and effect. that means you can jump any time you want, and i always appreciated. mohammed's let me go to you 1st here. i mean, this is not the 1st time that we have talked about the i c, c. and usually on this program is in the midst of a terms, i don't have much liking for the i c c. because if it's to put city is how it's politicized. and then it does something like this and ask for indictments against the 2 leading is really officials. of course they had to balance it out with having 3 a mazda officials. for me. it's a very mixed bag. i have mixed feelings about it. they, they the very fact the justices people want to start approaching this in a more balanced way. applying the law to everyone, i suppose is a plus, but because it comes from the i, c, c. i just really don't know what to think about it. what do you think?

i i agree i don't think di c. c has much credibility if any credit ability at all. and no, do any of the international institutions that were created since the 2nd world war . they're all dominated by the west, more or less. some are worse, some or if it better, but this particular institution is very much under the influence of the united states. and its head is under very much under the influence of the united states. but it does show something on it just like the 3 european countries that are recognized palestine. it doesn't change anything, but it does show something. and that is the global public opinion. and western public opinion are putting pressure on these institutions on these regimes where they have to be seen as behaving differently. i, i'm sure that guy says he had no intention whatsoever of doing anything against is

where it is. but things have become so bad that if they don't take some slight steps, then they become completely discredited in the eyes of even the most naive of people. you know, so it's in a way, it's kind of a damned if you do damned if you don't. i mean, 7 months and they decide to do something like this. again, trying to create this false equivalency um, but nonetheless it is something that and i didn't really expect that when we 1st heard about this, we came out of tell a b and not from anywhere else, not from the hague. that's for sure. and then it's happened here, so i know i, i'm a cynic, i take victories where i can take them. i do take, this is a victory. but it, we don't even know if the icpc is gonna exist very much longer considering the, in the reaction of the americans and its allies go ahead. so as well. yeah, i mean like you, i think a, you know, of course there's certainly an element of both sides isn't in the fact that the i c

. c. not only indicted or not only is asking for indictments for the 2 is really leaders, but also for the 3 majors of how much. so that's something which i think is not, not nothing tastic but um you know, that having been said, i do think, you know, this is a pretty positive step. it's an important step and it could lead to some, you know, really positive change. but so now you know, we have to see, i mean, what's happening now for sure is biden, and the rest of the american administration is making phone calls, trying to strong arm of europeans and probably my government, the japanese into saying that they will ignore the ice and you kind devices, the indictment, maybe that they're trying to fracture them to do the funds of the i, c c. and like you say, to destroy it. let's hope it doesn't happen. i mean, you know, i spent most of my career, you know, a 1st lobbying for the creation of the i, c c. and then trying to convince people that you know, despite its faults. and despite the fact that it had only indicted african leaders

for the, for 20 years of it's like the average, the end, slobs, africans, and slobs. ok, well afterwards, yes. for the 1st 20 years. and then 20 years later, of course it was, you know, it was present food and then there were the russians in the dock and it was very interesting. the other day con, was interviewed. i think it was by cnn. and he said that he had been told point blank by a certain, quote, unquote, a certain western leader didn't say. who would have been interesting say they would have been interesting to hear room, but he was told point blank that, you know, the icpc is not to. it's ops to indict israel. it's, it's for africans and i think it was the sub, those like, put in, i think that was the quote, the, to the told. so you know that very much shows that hypocrisy and double standards. but, you know, here we are, and like you say, i mean the evidence against israel, the evidence of you know, he's real, committing then aside and committing the surrender. small crimes and crimes against humanity is so overwhelming that there's just no way that they could of gotten out

of doing this. and let's, you know, let's see what happens when we're doing one of the interesting things. one of the interesting things about this indictment, they, i'm coming out of the i, c. c. is that there's more of a high, like on the they have pocket see of western institutions, not really on the merits, because as always just pointed out, i mean, this is over what it's fine that you're trying to convince people that the sun comes out in the day and it sets a night, i mean, the evidence is so overwhelming, but watching them dance around and twist themselves into pretzels. that is the spectacle where, you know, line or, you know, the, i looked at western media a mainstream media and it feels like treated as the 51st stage. i mean, there is no difference between israel and the united states. i find this truly bizarre. but if they want to go down the path, then blinking and biting, and sullivan, they're gonna end up in the dock using the same logic here. i guess that's what they're afraid of right line. oh, i don't know because i'm trying to try to explain to you gentlemen what it's like

to live. as i say in the fishbowl, i am living in the parallel universe. sometimes i have to look to see where there is evidence of change elsewhere to which just a while ago people were saying the i c, c is great. they don't know what the issue was. he thought it was a, perhaps it was a federal commission. so somebody called the international call cajun court and they were africans or whatever and they got poking and, and it's great. didn't make sense. what about nothing, yahoo and yeah. oh and i loved the way they never even mentioned the names of them . us and 3 other whatever, they don't even mention it. so all of us are, there's that way them, it doesn't make any sense. excuse me, be careful what you asked for. you said it was great. yeah, but, but wait a minute. now was a runaway court, but we didn't, but it wasn't before. the next thing that's interesting is and you're gonna laugh at me gentlemen. so let me apologize in advance of all of a sudden those people who, who idea of, of i guess news is people magazine or whatever. all ma clooney. george

clooney is wife. george clooney the, the high priest of the, of cabal, whatever you want to call the wolf left is his wife. not only is the is mr. conduct her mentor, but she research just now the left and the right. and we've talked about this better. they don't know what to do, and they're also saying, why do you think this came about? why do you think this came about, all of a sudden, what was it that changed everything in my lifetime? i've never seen anything like that. let me tell people are saying, you know, maybe these protests which are deriding is being stupid and ill conceived and manufactured by children try and tried to regroup with some healthy and days of the sixty's. maybe that did it, maybe the world to use a cloud swapped, or maybe this is the great reset, but nobody saw this company is a really, if

a spouse, it's a reset that the establishment wasn't prepared for. it's for sure. you know, how many do i mean one of, you know, and looking at thing, i mean, i get, i agree with kind of saul, you know, i, i, it's a moving the right direction from a very flawed institution. but even looking at the long description of what, what, how this process is going to move forward. you, the reader doesn't get the impression that palestine garza, the westbank, is under occupation, israel as the occupying power. it has responsibilities. i don't see that in the text. maybe i don't know enough about the lots to pick it up. go ahead mohammed. and it's not only does that. it's also the west banks to us yesterday. 11 palestinians were murdered in the west bank uh spoke. i think 2 school children, one surgeon and one teacher were among those were killed. they're split, it's of the, of the, of the children being shop on the streets lying down dying. but that doesn't

register anywhere. apparently. uh, as a is, of course of the scenes of guys that we can only find them online. we're not going to see them in the way mainstream. western media in western government officials are not going to say anything about it, and there's not going to be any kind of nation from any of the western embassies in tel aviv. but um, but i, but i agree that uh, with both of your guests there has been a sea change it i, the israel is about the 51st dates. i think it's that, that sort of like the district of columbia. but the guy with, well the, how about how many, if that is the case that it means it's is really occupied territory. keep going. it is, is rid of the occupied territories, but there is a see change. and i do think that not only is it the protests across the world, and the governments across the global south that are looking in the harm. but it is young people across the western world and in the united states in particular. and i

would stress young jewish america has and we have 2 issues or pins yet, that putting pressure on the political system. and that i think is what is forcing them to make some slight moves in order to decrease the pressure. yeah, but it's interesting, a slight mood can turn into of an avalanche and i think that's what we're seeing right now. you know, so, so you know, i'm not a psychologist. i know a lot of people go on tv and pretend to be one. they're also military experts in they're also experts on russia, etc, etc. but i get this ceiling vents, you know, uh someone like, um, uh. com is thinking about his legacy, how he is going to be remembered during these times. and i think a lot of people get meaning to realize that they're going to be judge, maybe not now, but history will judge them harshly. go ahead as well. i certainly think, i think so. you know, i don't know. i don't know, concepts like ology. so i can sort of, you know, speak for him, but i'm,

i'm pretty sure that, you know, a lot of people are looking around and saying, seeing that they are on the wrong side of history. and the way the want to get on the right side of history, unfortunately, of us present buyers and doesn't seem to have done that yet. but you know, one of the things about this whole, you know, the whole discourse about, you know, what the eyes see has done and what you want to talk you about about gaza. and of course, because it's not just because it's also the west bank and west bank also includes east jerusalem. and all this is, you know, this is extremely important as well. but it's also important not to lose sight of the fact that he's real isn't a part i'd state. and this is not just about nathan, yahoo and you know, just a couple of handful of is really politicians. no, i mean each and every point is really politician from at least $67.00 if i saw from solve solve all that and thought i have to go to a hard break. and after that hard break will continue our discussion on palestine. stay with the

the, the job early her, my little sister store. okay. the model girl to i got you. no problem seem to them out of the know nothing 30 minutes us out of the drive i showed my brother through . he was cited to help people for a lot. all right, so now i never looked at searches as being the same. well,

i guess i lost my list. that's the outcome of chicago. police. it'd be gang chicago is like, you get for the police, you lose your life as another crime, say another could have been a doctor or nurse could have been the next president. we can't keep losing people out here. the welcome back across cycle. are all things are considered on peter roosevelt remind you were discussing palestine. the ok, let's go back to saw it before we went to the break. you're talking about how much further culpability there is. if you're going to be in dining, the prime minister of israel, and the for a and the defense minister,

these are not actor. these are actors that have enormous amount of power. and we all know to, and i think this is what it is. so a stomach churning is that this is a genocide that is being actively um, shown on line we have is really sold. there is a pricing there, there crimes on, you know, into the camera. i mean, we all can see it. okay. i mean, the one, the most glaring one for me was watching the they were blowing up the university. i mean, the whole building. and it was, it was very well staged. i have to say, and he's standing there grinning. i don't understand of a hebrew, but i mean, he was really happy that he was part of the destruction of something that is one of the basis of civil society in palestine. and so, i mean how much for this go. i mean, if you're going to bring these 2 guys to trial, you're going to have to bring a whole lot more. go ahead so well, that's exactly my point. i mean it's not just a handful of as really politicians that are no problem. maddox here and that's,

you know, the problem with the whole sort of the most extreme right wing government in israel narrative that we see a lot of, you know, we've got to look at also what's been happening within the borders of israel, of 40 the 48 palestinian territories and you know, all this, the whole story narrative about the 2 state solution. the 2 state solution is the only way for the to say solution is the only way that people ever come to say solution is the only feasible, blah, blah, blah. i've heard this, you know, ad nauseam from all of our so called leaders over and over and over. but the fact of the matter is the 2 state solution, you know, is, comes from this partition resolution that the un general assembly adopted in 1947. now, 1947, there were 55, maybe was 56 member states in the united nations is completely dominated by the west and it's ours. so that's how we have this, you know, quote of a 2 state solution. the only reason that we're even talk to you about this and this and somehow become a default option is because it goes back to 1947. and basically the, you know, the western dominated united nations coming to the pulse. and people who think,

well, why don't you give half of your country over to these western colonized? boy, that sounds like a great idea. and we've got to look at the, you know, sheer injustice. and upon receipt of that to what, you know, and mohammed the, the argument, you know, you hear all the time, i'm in my entire life, you know, israel has the right to exist. israel has the right to self defend. those are the favorite ones. oh, and the 3rd one is it's complicated. okay, that's that, that's kind of the, the, the, the design is propaganda that we're all side bed all the time. but i mean, if you look at that, we have a 143 countries in the world. recognize palestine as a state. okay. and uh, tony blinking says, we don't want to do anything unilaterally. well, a 143 countries that's not unilateral. that's kind of like the vast majority of the world. what we're getting down to is that the question should be, you know, should does, what is real, have the right to exist, but it is desirable for it to exist as a zine estate mohammed. well peter, i think over the years we've,

we've seen a lot and those things are now very different from the past. the last 78 months has really changed the world. i never thought i'd see that things are key or the things that i'm seeing and hearing today, the world has turned against this regime. and there's a lot of awareness about what sign is. i'm actually means what at most departments has them in apartheid is. and they can't hide this anymore, and it's really changing everything by the way. even now, western media, they for the last 3 days since president rest raised the passed away in the helicopter accident. they've been saying that the right hands are celebrating and then online and social media. we see millions of people in the different funerals impact, ron, and right now and mass side and elsewhere. and no one believes the west anymore. no

one believes israel anymore. no one believes the united states anymore, they've destroyed themselves and they're, they're destroyed their credibility, their soft power. and so now people across the world are saying that there's really wishing does not have moral legitimacy. and that the only real solution is for a single state where all people have equal rights and people when they hear that, they say yes, that makes sense. make sense? yes, it makes sense. they're all human beings equal human beings. they should all be able to live together and they see as you point out that the is not this, not just the palestinians who are showing a footage of daily slaughter. and the massacre is happening 24 hours a day. they are seeing this really is i just as you pointed out, carrying a atrocities and laughing about it and in doing what they're doing and none of them being punish and none of them big. why? because that's the regime itself backs this sort of behavior. so vampire has no

clothes, and i think that that is going to have enormous consequences in the years to come in a line or it's the uh it's, it's well known, the iron clad support the, the united states has for israel. but it's always funded, really mystifying and truly disappointing is that if you could put it into the american contexts, who today defense jim crow, who, who defends that kind of a part, tied like system that the united states had. we mean, how, you know, hollywood goes to the bank every, every single year, you know, you need to, you know, right, so i, where i grew up on road. so i remember watching it as a child. okay. i mean, why can't that kind of explanation, be honestly displayed to people saying if you support israel and what it's doing, the new support, what they did in the south. and jim crow, i have a friend of mine who is a, who's a bigger discount, a movie fan and said,

remember movie jango. i see. yeah. is it, what is that about? is it what does that about? that's about a slave who basically comes back and utilize that, didn't you do things. thank god for an unfettered social media. thank god for twitter. i have there are some size i don't wanna mention now. all of depths of absolute. and i'm a former prosecutor, i've seen murders, i have seen it all. and the thing that i, i try to tell my friends are people who are the unenlightened. i said, look, i'm not trying to explain one way the other. just look at what's going on. tell me what this is about. to look at the looks in the face of these people who are going through and picking up bodies look into look they, they have almost like they're just the 1000 yard stare there. they have. they've been doing this for too long the other day there was a quote, comedian, i'm not going to mention his name, who decided he's going to address the crazy left young people. and i've got to tell you gentlemen what he said, which is to me. exam exemplifies the fact that people don't know what they're talking about and you said, you know, people in gaza would find it

a lot better and a lot easier to live if they could go to tell a beep. especially if you're gay or the, or whatever the particular phrase was, it'd be great if they could go to tell that be and the, and the whole said, that's the idea. that's what we're talking about. so what occurred to me, we're talking about basically a rudimentary absolute basic misunderstanding using trumps and means that ideas 30 years ago, 40 years ago. and this is an idea of these, of this new kind of a. ok. we're going to look at this again. no. the best way to expose the truth is to let this load se prevail and just listen to one and say, i don't have to correct anything. this is self correcting. just listen to this. i don't know what they're talking about. forget talking about zion isn't, will that just look at this? ask this question. do you want this to continue? as somebody helped me here, or they don't use the word genocide to say, okay, how about massacre? you're like that? is it okay maybe, and i'm like, god, you prefer that?

we, we, we are sold from totally as over specific definitions, missing the entire point that we as a specie to say this has got to stop. we'll talk about the other stuff later. but this is got to start having, not, you know, why don't we, you know, the people that support the, the slaughter in, in, in gaza and in the assaults on the west bank they, they want us all to lose our humanity, like they have lost their humanity but i refuse to do that. i refuse to close my heart because i feel that i am comfortable if i don't talk with the way i'm talking right now a soul is israel's worst enemy itself, or i guess you can say that. yeah, i mean, definitely i look positive change is never going to come from within is really society. i mean it's just not going to happen. it has to be forced upon them. and really it's united states and the europeans,

but more than anybody do another system, this really has to happen. you know, you mentioned before, this is really starting into the 51st state and i think somebody so there's actually the, you know, it's, it's the, it's the district of columbia. and you know, we used to jokes out to washington dc was the a tunnel and divided capitol of israel. and just a, a just a few days ago i read the to republican congressman introduced a bill which if it were passed, it would mean that the us funds would go to american citizens who had served in the is really military. so they would get like equivalent benefits as american veterans who had served in the american military. this was just insane. i mean, never in the history of i, i, you know, me the, i don't know, but i certainly never heard of anything like this in the history of mankind or taxpayer funds would go to reward people who had served in for an army. yet this is complete, a sign here. yeah. but yet, and it's like, oh what, what does it make? it makes it even worse. i agree with you there. it's a form of a mercenaries, but what makes it worse is that the tax payers would be finding the same people to

commit crimes. that's what makes it even worse. keep going. well, exactly. i like you say, i mean is real is as we're sending me in a way, but it's out of control. i mean is really, society is completely out of control. and you know, i saw of course, i live at 0 in palestine for 5 years. and i, i interacted with menus rarely as, of course. and i saw how they were socialist into believing that the whole world was against them. and you know, the next whole, the cost of just around the corner and they've got the, you know, they've got to give before somebody. yeah. but so let me, let me becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. i'll get the last minute to mohammed should be because of what they do. the world is touring against them. it's a self fulfilling prophecy mohammed. yes, they are their own worst sending me because they hum us and hezbollah and, and sought out on the others. and you run with them have defeated these really vision militarily. but is really, really the feet is the fact that the israelis have destroyed their image in the

eyes of the world by committing these atrocities that defeat is far greater than anything else. and people won't forget that, that's what happened during the 2nd world war to the nazis and others. and there's ran, these are the worst anti semites themselves because they are doing all of this in the name of judaism. and that's why that the, the courage of these young american and european jews is so important because they are paid moving to and they're, and what they're saying is that they have their own self determination. and because they have their own, they want to see others have it as well gentlemen, that's all the time we have one of the things i guess in new york, sorry about and into that. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here. at ortiz, the next time, remember, trust, the the,

[000:00:00;00] the water is a part of it that the employee

would pose good. isn't the defense you of us and that in the word part, is it something deeper, more complex might be present? good. let's stop without glitches. let's go out of the many of us across the united states have been captivated by college and university protests and demonstrations in support of palestinian human rights. the movement begin at new york's prestigious columbia university and quickly spread all across the country from major universities to small colleges. and they continue to spread to universities around the world. it is present to be the biggest american campus political movements since the height of the vietnam war. these demonstrations grew quickly and remained peaceful. so why did university administrators at almost every one of these institutions use campus

and local police departments to break them up with violence? why were students arrested for allegedly trespassing on their own campuses? and why did universities not even attempt to engage the students in a conversation about palestine about human rights and about the investment from israel? i'm john to reaku. welcome to the whistle blowers the . 2 2 2 2 2 since the start of the war on guys, on october 7th, 2023. many people around the world have been appalled by these rarely response. yes . october 7th saw the depths of more than $1200.00 innocent israeli civilians. it was the worst terrorist attack in his really history. but israel's response has been heavy handed. and in the words of the united nations genocidal. more than

35000 palestinians had been killed by his really forces so far in the conflict. and most of them had been women and children. there is no end in sight to the conflict . here in the united states, the initial shock in sympathy for israeli civilians quickly dissipated with the fast rise and civilian debts. thousands of students set up and camp minutes on university grounds, calling for peace and for the universities to divest from investments in israel. the logical next step would have been for university leaders to engage the students in a conversation and perhaps to consider their demands. but instead, the protests which had been almost entirely peaceful, were met with violence police arrest and students by the hundreds. they fired tear gas and rubber bullets, and they forcibly uploaded the 10th encampments, destroyed them and threw them away. even worse, many of the universities led by columbia had the students charged with crimes