the, the time action or that said, welcome back to going underground rule got single around the world from the you a, the world stands on the brink of nuclear war of to genocide. jo permitted us weapons to directly target russia. know certainly the largest country in the world, but the country with the largest number of nuclear weapons. meanwhile, people are rising up in native nations against genocide today in the capital of empire, i believe good biden's house is being surrounded by a symbolic red line just signal to the world. the u. s. political causes betrayal of all humanity in gaza and jerusalem. west asia and superpower savvy arabia, fall from the lies coming from the us state department. about normalization with israel has denounced israel for quote, continuous genocidal mass. it goes against palestinians. here the res,

deepening military collaboration with china midst unfulfilled us promises and escalating is really aerial bombardment of syria, of lebanon and of him. and joining me now from one trail canada is moving rabbani who worked with you in, in syria, as we now co edits to delia magazine created as the arab spring. thank you so much . i'm waiting for coming on, i going to say in west and you are being nations. the genocide is going to opposable genocide has gone a bit quiet. they have more important things of the vessel states as they being called is what do you make then the bible to see means of rehabs. he's a ceasefire plan if anything, and insisting it's in his rate the plan while supplying the munition in the bones to be had children in god who bizarre for words. what you have is the us president joe biden publicly announcing what he stated was

in his early ceasefire proposals. so the 1st question is, why is the us rather than israel making this public? subsequently, these really is denied. it was their proposal. then the americans insisted that they basically put out precisely what they received from these rallies. then these relays tell the americans or lead to the press, that there were additional details that were not included. now the israelis are asking for us to guarantees that they can re resume their genocide a law slot once the deal is implemented. and in the meantime, as might well be expected, the americans are insisting the onus is on from us to accept this rather than 1st, ensuring that is real accept what by all accounts is its own proposal that can then be put to the other party. it's really to, to bizarre for words and it demonstrates once again what many um,

or at least what i've always concluded that often in these situations the us is more pro is real than israel itself. and less pro americans. i'm. so i might say, i mean very little news. we're hearing about these reports of us as eyes in the how this $670000000.00 northrop grumman, nick, rav carrier having to retreat to jetta because of force that because of resistance forces in the red sea. i mean, is it a, you've got any update on, on that the attacks on the us us eyes now is not, not on that specific attack, but i think it's worth putting this in larger context, which is that one t issue driving us diplomacy is, is that it seems to be stuck in a contradiction. on the one hand, it is thoroughly embraced as real as genocide. a war against the posting is in the gaza strip. at the same time, it also appears determined to avoid further re regional escalation. the

obvious way to avoid for the regional escalation is to end the genocide. but instead of doing that, the u. s. has been threatening, has been on bubbling on, has been sending it some naval task force to the red sea to seek to unsuccessfully. i might add, as you've just indicated, put an end to the whole seats missile attacks on shipping going through bob and manda. and we've even had direct confrontation for the 1st time since 1979 between israel and the ron. so the us on the one hand wants to prevent further escalation, but at the same time is driving further escalation and at the same time is getting directly involved in this escalation itself. and of course, rose real. the biggest surprise would be a direct confrontation between the united states and a wrong which has appeared at some points. increasingly likely,

i think is now less likely, but does remain plausible and less than until this genocide ends. yeah, i don't know whether we can believe anything the american say, but they say the us as eyes now wasn't struck. but what did happen definitely in the past few days, as the britain in the united states and really bombarded famine, hit a human, which is, which is so sanctioned. most americans, though, i mean, regardless of whether this deal is to do with pleasing a base before november's election and was not most americans of the usa, according to polls are against israel. now, it's uh, today, the anniversary of the 1949 publication of georgia was 1984. how is it, do you think, speaking of the way or, and kind of direction that the nato propaganda machine has not worked? i know this, i'm say the take talk man was in pots and threats to banner, but in part because of the youth using social media to discover what the lies were

told that i told to them about the genocide. why is it not what, why there's so many people demonstrating today outside the white house and then across western europe in london for instance, as a many of them. so all of the pictures the cnn and comcast guy, news and the rest and not going to show of children headed by nature weapons. or i think there's multiple explanations for this. um, the obvious one is that you can only hide the sun with your finger for so long before you get sunburned. and israel's case, i think it's fair to say that is really propaganda has how that too good for too long and has simply become lazy and complacent. and as a result, increasingly effective, for example, this week, the new york times revealed that is real, was running a corporate influence operation using social media against members of congress with

a specific emphasis on african american democrats in congress. but if you look at who it's main targets were not only was a preaching to the converted, but it was setting a box, for example, with male names, but female pictures um and all the so completely ineffective. i think another aspect of course is, is that people, particularly younger people, are no longer solely reliant on main street media. whether i'm television or prints or digital and have access to accurate information, very disturbing information in real time. and then there's the additional facts are the israel as a state, and as a society has moved so far to the right, and in many cases to the lunatic fringe, is that it is simply incapable of generating the kind of propaganda that it did.

and in previous decades where it could at least pretend to appear reasonable, pretend to be genuinely interested in a peaceful resolution of the rep is really conflict and the question of palestine, because in today's is really environment. anyone who puts forth such propagate and about being reasonable of warranty peace and having genuine respect for others is basically committing political suicide. and so is really propaganda is increasingly too extreme to be palatable to western audiences. and i think um, uh, that's another factor. well, of course, the propaganda continues in american so called mainstream press. one to lie is 1st published even though new york times is always bugging families. newspaper can apologize about the allies told about october 7th and the fake sex crimes. but by

then too many people know about it, did you hear about the great zone being targeted by the amazon washington post the other day? i know the grades on was the people can, which are interviewed next blumenthal in the studio here. the editor of grades and who, who is done so much to expose the lives coming from israel and propaganda outlets in nato countries. did it surprise you that uh they were directly by the washington post. and i'm, frankly, i'm unaware of, of, of this specific issue, but on the whole, no, i'm, i'm not just, i'm not surprised. i mean, the, the mainstream press has a history of normally suppressing alternate alternative view points and suppressing descent. but also on attacking the sensors. i mean we, we need on the look out, for example, the us invasion of iraq in 2003 where it was the new york times and other

leading newspapers and television stations that lead the charge. that completely inflated these false allegations about the new rock and weapons program and w, m d, and so on. and, and, you know, it's new york times. this is not known as american products for nothing. it performs a very similar role perhaps using different means. but it performs the same role of confirming state policy, elite opinion and all the rest of that. what noam chomsky i think quite up actually referred to as manufacturing consent. the problem now on uh for the state and for these leading media corporations is that people have direct access to credible information in real time through alternative mechanisms. and so fewer and fewer people are relying on these agencies. and of those that to

there appears to be also greater skepticism about the news that they bring out. then there have been and in previous decade i should ask you actually, given the, as you said, we know congress and they've been targeted. we know of international criminal lawyers, it'd be targeted and all sorts of a roofing code which opperation is going on. have you ever been targeted julia, your magazine, the institute for the things that you say not, not that i'm aware of, and i think more importantly, it wouldn't have made a difference as well. and having said all of this, net and you know, as accepted the invitation to address congress, despite to this, into natural arrest, warrant being sold against him would make him speaking more pick on grass, addressing the more than churchill woods. what do you think about him? i mean, i should say biden, this says they will be in polio for the g 7. so i don't know. what do you think

about him addressing congress while the american people stand, seemingly with palestine including samples as well. i think it's primarily a message to the us administration. i'm sending a clear message that congress will act in israel's interest rather than the american interest. should it come to any policy class between washington and israel, going back to the cease fire a proposal that we were discussing at the outset. one motivation for biden was really to go over this really prime minister netanyahu has had and appealed directly to these early political class and is really become public opinion. this is nothing yahoo is response. you think you can go over my head? no, it is. i who will go over your head by showing that i have congress in my pocket.

it's not in your pocket. and by making a direct appeal to us, the leads in the us political class to basically 2 sides. and as we know, particularly in the increasingly polarized us political system and now it also being an election year and so on. and i suspect that it will be an attorney of them rather than bided. who will come out on top winner by me. i'll stop you there more from the co editor of jelia and for you and syria advisor after this break the car acceptance. and i'm going to plan with you whatever you do. do not watch my new show. seriously. why watch something that's so different. little opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to please or do have the state department c. i a weapons, bankers, multi $1000000000.00 corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead. i changed and

whatever you do, don't my show state main street because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called stretching. but again, you probably don't wanna watch it because it might just change the way you the welcome back to getting on the ground. i'm still here with moving rabbani co editor

off each other. yeah. when you were talking about the biden's tribulations and his not being in power, then you know, being in power arguably as regards the facile states that as sending in the weapons and ammunition to they had babies in casa, what do you make of their behavior? because the g says i'm just the g 7, sam for genocide is that with the g stands for when they meet in fully every naturally on thursday as well that's, that's certainly very good characterization. i would however, like to take issue with your description of, of the united states as israel's vassal state. i think it's very much the other way around. i think israel derives its strength from the support it gets from the us because of washington sees it as a reliable and dependable and powerful best in of western interest in the middle east. and if there's real was, was not believes to be performing this function and basically it would not get the

support of either the us or the united kingdom or the european union. and i think one problem that israel is now going to experience in the months and years to come . is it supposed to be this omnipotent, omniscient, you know, all powerful emissary of western interest, sebastian of western interest in the middle east. but in the better part of the year, it couldn't even cross a 2nd daughter. melissa, i'm us in a miniature postage stamp sized territory meeting the 365 square kilometers at the gaza strip. and i'll be very interested to learn in years to come whether and i believe it will, whether this will affect the position of israel and western geo political and strategic thinking or against what you said about. i mean, clearly dental useful in terms of american, the security because they in danger,

american security, very existence but the $100000000.00 from a pac uh, this election cycle coming through now. why they spending so much money buying and election manipulating in the united states. the as well, but i think the question that needs to be asked is why does a pack think it needs to spend all this money to maintain a sufficient congressional as a way american democracy works? circle democracy? well, that's the way american photography works. i'm not sure democracy is the appropriate term here. but um, uh, you know, i, if you look back over the past few decades, i think it's fair to say that israel's primary strategic assets. far on the way, i think more important than the arms deliveries and all the rest of it hasn't been the solid bipartisan us political support for israel and for its policies. and it's

worth recalling the, the, the main stay of support for israel and congress. and among the us, political leads used to be among liberal democrats, rather than conservative, evangelical, and french republicans. that's, of course changed. but the more interesting developments in my view is that israel has become an increasingly partisan issue. and, and us politics and the democratic party, for example, is increasingly divided over the issue of us policy to northern congress, as well as even, even in congress. i mean, you have the so called squad, you have certain prominence senators, demanding that, that their own government observe us domestic legislation with respect to arms, exports and so on. yeah, i never see the, you know, this scored the talking much isn't i never see the squad talking on tv about

genocide, they're using the g word well in that of so some do some don't. but i think more importantly is, is these are people who are now openly and publicly dissenting from the us consensus online support for israel to slow process. it's not going to result in policy changes, but certainly not this week. but it shows, i think, the beginnings of a fracture and the solid bi partisan us support. that is real, has always enjoyed, obviously, cartwright for the, for that in, in gaza. course today course i want to get on to the kind of punishment, meet it out on any country or any region that is to defy this. um, a pact is railey is ram lo be uh, this is the sign as the cyclops. uh, what did you make about britain in the us? a bombing gammon in the past few days been,

is getting so of course not reports worthless. i think what's, what's happening here is abundantly clear of washington and london stood before a choice. they could either call a halt to israel's genocide launcelot on the palestinians and the gaza strip. as a result of which these attacks on shipping from young men would come to an end. or they could engage in the bombing and killings and young men in order to ensure that israel would be able to continue with this genocide of lots, lots in the gaza strip. and quite clearly, washington and london have decided that enabling israel's genocide and the gaza strip is more important and then keeping the shipping lines in the red sea open. i'm sure lots of businesses watching this will wonder what they're doing in that case. meanwhile, jake sullivan,

national security advisor and i to the blinking contain you to talk about saudi arabia normalization with israel. i mean, you might be up to tell me why not they do that when we had saudi arabia quotes, say, in the strongest terms, calling and condemning the continuous close of genocidal mass because by his radio basic was meanwhile and us television. they keep talking about normalization. the thing is, can they not reactivate isis day actually now kind of forces like they used in serious can they don't do this again and attack the countries likes out here. i mean, here the u. a. um, as being the saying that it's not going to be f $35.00 when the abrahamic origin is looking to increase cooperation with china. what punishment is going to be needed out to the arab countries that are not supporting enough the us genocide, as they're in mind, this is the same jake sullivan who published an article immediately before october 7th,

saying things have never been better in the middle east of the region hasn't been disquieting into decades and then sought to have his article, he replied to that criticism, sorry to interrupt. you did reply to that criticism and said, well, they were before goodness, i'm ignoring, except that they weren't and you know, it didn't take a degree and rocket science to see a crisis coming. what you would expect, at least, that someone who has, has assumed the post of national security adviser, the most power from the state and history would have at least an inkling. i mean, the problem here is that, that we're not talking about saudi is really a normalization. what we're really talking about is a tripartite. saudi is really us to deal with from washington. his perspective and certainly from is real, israel's, as well as intended not to promote is really passed in, in peace,

but to promote this really unilateralism to enable further is really unilateral doesn't visa view the past indians and to completely crush and marginalize the pulse to dance washington's problem is that for saudi arabia, the real prize and such an agreement is not anything that would get from is real. but what it would get from the united states and all indications are, is that the by didn't ministration, would not be able to obtain congressional approval for either a formal security guaranteed for the saudi arabia or a civilian nuclear program that it would provide to salary. right. so my view disagreement was, was never really going to materialize anyway. and as, as you may recall, a month or 2 ago, the saudis voicing that are increasing frustration with israel is, and israel's intransigence suggested to put these rarely components of this deal on ice. and proceed with the bi lateral us saudi components of the and the us of

course said, well, if there is nothing in it for us, we'll, we're not interested even though the bi lateral us savvy deal would have great advantages for the us. a strategic position in the region by new ministration, not so interested then in in us the interest is appears. meanwhile, on monday, there's a brick foreign ministers meeting. and the farm is if you, a and saudi are in, in russia. and the king of bahrain was in moscow the other, the other day. i mean, what do you think removal of us basis from this region of people discussing that? i bid the russians and the chinese do what, how does cost a host a how mouse and the biggest, one of the biggest us bases holiday base and run out to 0. and i'm, and by rain have a huge us base head increasingly be tied to countries that are critical to the

agendas as well. i think what we've been seeing and many of these g, c, c states and, and also other states in the region like, um, uh, egypt. uh, for example, certainly during the past decade is it's not so much a, a rupture and their relations with their traditional patron and washington and finding new ones and brush over china. but rather what i would call a process of strategic diversification. in other words, for many of the states, their primary strategic relationship remains with the united states. they continue to look to washington is equal to mac guarantor of their security. but at the same time, they are also developing increasingly close economic security. and you've been strategic relations with the russians and with the chinese of both as an insurance policy and in order to also reduce what had previously been

a complete dependence on washington. so there's a process of, of diversification going on, rather than, let's say, changing one patron for another. you know, i just find the matthew miller that state department spokes person that is press conferences that he hadn't seen the picture of the big headed baby off to the massacre in a rough i, in the past few days, is only the anniversary. the publication of all worlds. 1984. it's 52 years since the famous photo of a 9 year old friend b came for a bun by us chemical weapons, w. m. d. in vietnam. why is it despite all the money? maybe it's in a tunnel question about the lead classes. these congressmen and women and all these members of parliament in west european capitals say in germany, which is a bang, so much of the weaponry that's raining down regardless why they know it. as a bold,

as the world was from seeing what the united states were doing to the babies and children of vietnam, has they, as we are seeing to the arabs of palestine as well. matthew miller, of course, is a personification of, of see no evil hear. no evil speak, know even when it comes to is real and that some genocidal policies. uh, i mean even even by the standards of, of upper upticks whose role it is to make up logia for the government's policies. easy is really in a, in a, in a class of his own. and that is on a colleagues. but regarding your question, i think maybe you want to leave avenue to be out of it. sorry. yeah. cool. no, uh, no, i definitely don't leave kirby out of it. he's. he's right up there with millard. but getting back to your question, i think we need to get away from this view which looks at western politicians as somehow being bought buy these relays were being blackmailed by these families

are being threatened by these rallies and blindly embracing israel against their better judgment or against their will. and perhaps we should start looking at these people as doing precisely what they want to do. as, as people who are fundamentally racist. who feel that is real, is entitled to do whatever it pleases with the past and in people with the or ups and with the region for that matter. and these are people who are almost congenitally have been conditioned to view palestinians and arrowheads as irrelevant. an expendable human scum. so it's not that they don't see these uh images, but that these and images make absolutely no impression on that. they couldn't care

. less between rabbani thank you. thank you. that's it for the show. i'll continue condolences to those very by you k us and you, i'm genocide will be back on monday to focus on the new 3 around i in bricks which just have elections with home advisor to india is national security council until then keep in touch with i realized social media, if it's not sensitive, knew a country and had to our child going on, you're going to be on level dot com to let you know the episodes of going underground to monday. the the

the americans have no right to this. as do, you must do the medical that's the same bob way in terms of the scaling review of washington's approach to relations with his country. just part of the leaders, exclusive interview with our team. ukrainian strikes killed $22.00 people in residential areas of the harris on region just hours after another deadly attack on the city of lou guns. pressure points to take her at the west for disregarding 2000000 lives in ukraine and russia. there is no doubt that the western delegations that convened un security council meetings truly do not care about the humanitarian situation in ukraine or the suffering of civilians in the country.