for a time seeing his guests discuss the masters committed by israel and gaza and the ongoing rhetoric and propaganda from the us and is the hello and welcome to the cross stuff boulevard. here we discussed some real in the i'm action or science. you're welcome back to going underground rule cussing all around the world from the middle east, where in gaza, tens of thousands of men, women and children have been massacred by

u. s. u k. u armed israel. the survivors of direct attacks and suffering from disease. the dodge and medical treatment and or risk dying from starvation and with hundreds of thousands of schools, universities, mosques, churches, hospitals, and houses destroyed. they have no way to go. joining me now from chicago is ali. i'm the name of the founder and director of the electronic intifada. he's the author of the battle for justice in palestine. i'll be thanks so much for coming on going underground. you know, the electronic intifada is being such a resource. just so many people for and need a quarter of a century. just gimme a reaction to a nato's media propaganda campaign, celebrating israel saving a full captives from gaza. recently, i understand the british propaganda network, the bbc founded 9022, celebrating it with you know, it was an end tab like rescue and people were dancing in the streets. thank you so much. have sion? well it, it's awfully grotesque, of course,

because they're all down playing just the sheer atrocities. israel committed a, murdering almost 300 palestinians, injuring almost twice as many and in fact, killing according to the palestinian resistance. 3 of the is rarely captives in the process. so this blog boss should really underscores country to what the b, b, c, these really government might want us to believe that the only way to get this really present as a fallback is uh to end the war to end the genocide, to israel, to agree to what the americans insist is its own cease fire proposal and to address all the other root causes of this uh, horrifying and escalating file its something that they want to tell me. what did it

go through these? the circle drawn lists uh minds when they hear by them saying its in is really proposal for peace. and then clearly blinking is saying things like, uh, well, we have to, israel has accepted it. how much does the distance it says kind of in what he actually says and then blaming him us for coming back late on that. and i mean was that how much is it the hamas resolution resolutions at the security council? 2735 more or less the united states is promoting. i mean, to cut through this, i think what's happening uh, is that to the so called is rarely proposal presented by the americans. is actually a watered down version of the proposal presented by the americans to mass and early may, which i'm us accepted, but it's been watered down to make it vague and to remove

the questionnaire as a permanent ceasefire. something that how mass insists is its bottom line and stop going to back off from that. but um, ultimately your, if you crossed your mind back to the beginning of this genocide option for both the united states and this really said a cease fire means how much has won an israel has been defeated. so which is true because remember, as we all went in saying, we're going to destroy some estimate of terribly and politically and in every other way. and here they are negotiating with him as appealing to em, us to accept the proposals. so in order to try to spend as something other than it is ready to fade, they have to pretend this is a magnanimous proposal from israel and make it look as if it's israel. so

initiative rather than as a defeat, being imposed on israel by the resistance. so that's what all of these american contortions are about. in the best case. do the americans really want a cease fire? i think they do, if it's on his rarely terms. if not, they're willing to let the genocide go on and on. and then all those, these diplomatic shenanigans and pretends that the, you know, this is an is ready proposal is simply a survey to try to cover and absolve both israel and the united states for continuing this genocide and to blame. how much asked for the failure to end it? i mean, there is no free pressing nato nations gaily, are they doing the jobs then? well, the new york times washington, both the cnn, all these different groupings in terms of trying to cloud this issue so that people don't hear what you just told me. yes, of course,

they're largely propaganda. they offer, i operate is extensions. if the governments and the establishment with a veneer of criticism in the field or a veneer of you know, adversarial and this at times to try to maintain the image that they are somehow a free press holding a power to account. but they only do that at the margins and on in consequential things. and for the most part, they loaned the lies and propaganda of the governments. we've seen that, you know, glaringly in the case of gaza, but also in the case of ukraine and russia as well. yeah, some say that they want to, to finish with this guys the situation, the by the ministration, jake sullivan and the rest of them because they want to get on to this had targeting of russia, that samples and one and the one that gets support because the unprovoked russian

aggression even has that narrative, even as the support of the biden's base, so much as the lives being about the grand conflict. i'm not sure that to the if it does have the support of bite in space. you know, they, they were successful in manufacturing consent for the, the proxy war against russia, which thanks to the united states as cost hundreds of thousands of ukrainian lives in a futile attempt to destroy all cut tale russia. but i think in both cases of ukraine and gaza, these have been, you know, yet mall horrific american driven american lead catastrophes. human catastrophes and political catastrophes just like the catastrophes in iraq and afghanistan. and so they see, you know, these, the people in charge,

a psychopaths, they have no human feeling, no empathy, no ability to relate to others. they view this entirely through the lens of the own political and misconceived strategic interests. so i think what it is, is they want to manage it for public relations purposes and for like a total purposes. so in the case of gaza, if they can get to cease fire on is really in american terms. so be it. if not that happy to let the slow to continue, but then they want to shift the blame for that to him as an for political and electrical reasons. gets it off genocide, jo by them. and then when, when it comes to ukraine, they know that they're not going to defeat russia, but they want to so to keep it going, avoid the total collapse at least until after the election. and they just don't

count how many ukrainians have to be kidnapped off the streets and sent to the front to dive for jake sullivan and joe biden. so in berlington standing next to the guitar, a counterpart, and of course guitar. he stayed tv and been doing such amazing work from gaza that john lives in, in there are illuminating things. and yet, the guitar you vision is a key cheerleader of us policy, the proxy war against russia through ukraine, against venezuela or against the booking of fans aligned against china. but lincoln standing next to the guitar, a kind of depart saying in grim tones, he knows the pain of the ballast in it's you see that there's model outside golf as a yeah, i mean he cost he's, he's largely responsible for lots of the pain. remember that and to me blink can possibly has signed wavers bypassing congress in order to speed up the

weapons deliveries to israel, so that it can have enough of these babies, shred the all baby bus to bombs, to carry out these massacres. so if he knows the payments because he's largely responsible for it and of course his folks, people saying that's actually a normal process, those waivers. he's not doing anything unusual. back to electronic intifada. i mean, he, you know, all these people who think the war started on october and last year you've been covering it as i say for, you know, more than 2 decades of a quarter century. regarding this risk, you a full captives and as you said, i mean to be as far as we know it, a 1000 killed or wounded pilot palestinians. what do you information are you getting as regards um, any american involvement, the pe and humanitarian pierre, whether they were american soldiers, american enabling, i mean this sense doesn't matter, because obviously the weapons the is riley's use to be had the children are uh,

american and british anyway, but any, any information i sent to the pentagon very quick, i should just say, just say we, we have nothing to do with this. yes, i mean, just to say there's a lots of sort of swelling supposition or theories and very level firm evidence. i mean, the military experts i've talked to, including the electronic a default as john elma say that that would be no real tactical advantage to using the peer. it's this, rick is the thing that keeps floating away and it's not as if you can land heavy weapons on it. you can't put a tank on it. for example, it would $6070.00 put that on tank. and why would the as early as need to do that because the p a is at the end of something called the necessary car adult, which is this large swath of gaza that israel has occupied and tried to turn into

a permanent security. so dividing causative from north to south. and israel has several large military bases in the next room card or so why would they come off the p a when they have these military bases that they can just drive in from israel, which is what, in fact they do. and then we hugged reports that the i'm verified or, and verifiable of us forces taking place. and i think that, you know, hopefully time will tell. we'd be able to get some more fun information that we have now. but i think what you put to me in the 2nd part of your question is really more the point. is that regardless of these tactical details of american involvement? and clearly that was an american involvement in terms of, um you know, perhaps intelligence or planning. they've had needed that much, but yeah,

they've admitted that takes all of it. all right, national security via we are helping israel retrieve the captives. correct. so there's probably intelligence planning, other sorts of information. but the bigger picture is that israel is that the united states, rather, excuse me, is the godfather, this genocide. so regardless of whether the appear was involved, or whether uh, you know, us army ranges or whatever the called were involved, which again, we have no firm evidence of the americans of the dr. visit this genocide and that must not be ever of football. how do you, i believe i'll stop you that more from the founder, director of the electronic intifada dropped in his break. the

lease of the russian states never as tight as one of the most sense community best most all sense of the speed, the one else holes. question about this, even though we will fan in the european union, the kremlin machine, the state on the russians to day and split the smooth net keeping our video agency roughly all the band on youtube tv services. for the question, did you say steven twist, which is the the, [000:00:00;00]

the, the welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with the founder and director of the electronic intifada. holly ebony with oh, you were actually mentioning info one your colleague john, who just recently understood the detailed report about the fact that it was these reilly's killing their own people on october the 7th you just put

a briefly recap. some of that people can watch that on line the actually that the that report um, i think you're referring to is by my colleague david shane and david chance hope a sabbath. yes. since october 7th we've done extensive reporting on what happened on october 7th. and again, using las vegas rarely sources which show the country to the official narrative and the one spread by western media propaganda. israel killed many, if not most of its own people on october 7th, using, you know, under something called the hannibal directed, which is this one secret now, widely known as rarely order that allows the military to use overwhelming. forced to stop is riley is being taken captive, even if that means killing those as rarely as in the process. and the hannibal procedure was applied widely on october 7th,

an order from the top. that's something we've documented. again for mr. randy sources. and in addition to that, there was just indiscriminate fire, panic and chaos as the as really ami subdivision collapsed under the sophisticated and well planned military attack by the palestinian resistance. and what we've also documented since october 7th, through very meticulous reporting. again, based largely, almost entirely on his ready sources is how to cover up this massive failure and this massive killing of its own citizens. israel including is riley, see me, a post, a military offices like a general bar up here. um and kind of will go out and find who we, who our colleague, david seen reports on a detail manufactured atrocity tells, including details of fund babies. uh from uh you know,

children being tied to get there and set on fire families being but i did it, they didn't. and then a table of cost that the claims of mass sexual violence on october 7th, the evidence is clear. none of this ever happened. it simply didn't happen and we document that, but you won't find it to be on the bbc or cnn or the new york times. so instead, continue to perpetrate an advanced these hoaxes. in the case of bar up here, um this is ready general. he actually ordered it is rarely times to open fire on a house in keyboards. barry on october 7th, where 15 the civilians is really civilians are being help telling almost all of them. the only 2 survivors who live to tell the tale and it's thanks to them. this is ready to survive as yes, mean par rights. and how does the gun that we know that the come as fighters were

not abusing or harming the civilians in that house? and that everyone was killed not by the him as fighters, but by the is really tank fire. and then off to that mass unable attack the mass killing of his riley's by the is ready army general bar up here. um went out to lied and told this of this uh, completely made up story about how all these people were killed. and we know that these sorts of things happened up across the region across as what they call southern history out on october 7th. but uh, this being very little truce telling about it, and that needs to be a full international independent investigation, which unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be a lot of support for the israel. so you a you and is them one. and i'd say i didn't go through it to is on this shows that

they seen videos. there's other that i've seen videos headed babies born baby, and then no, no, but we have a problem or is really just as submitted through who walked out of the interview here when we talked to him about this a sexual violence which was a keen trope, i know the electronic into fighters, documented the sexual violence by israelis against palestinians over over many years. in fantasies, even the adult times has been actively. i said that these rape claims a systematic rape claims with false, a whole, a whole new space pets. but of course, bye time the for lies around uh, in the public imagination. they are out of britain uh, the europe in union successfully instituted continental censorship over not season zalinski and ukraine. people are banned its illegal in britain to i think even repeats a bbc previous reporting about nazis. right now. i suppose it's funded by

the nature of nations. what are they going to do to people like you, electronic intifada, and other groups that are exposing on a daily basis and have been to stop them from showing that these narrative is being spread from israel and they write back a election manipulated the american politicians are all lies as well. they're already doing it, not just to us specifically, but all across the so called collective west, where we see a brutal sense to ship and repression. i'll just give you one example. i'm familiar with personally in april i was invited to speak at the conference in berlin, organized by the palestinian community that along with jewish allies in solidarity with palestine. and i was all it to be invited to speak alongside dr. a sign up was sent to the british palestinian surgeon and director of glasgow university who

spent the fort 1st 43 days of this genocide in gaza, tracing people on witnessing atrocities. and what did the german government do? they banned him. a british citizen from entering germany, they banned him from most of europe, the so called shun. good uh, visa, free travel area. and they even banned him from speaking online to anyone in germany. uh they, they, the conference itself. i was suppose to speak remotely from the united states. at last, at less than an hour before german police dogs rated, it puts off the electricity of drove everyone out. and the german press report to the pipe may well be under travel by and i don't know if i am because i didn't attempt to travel to germany or the shogun area. but we see this across a had, this is a search and who is saving lives in guys?

a yes. and who's gone to speak about witnessing genocide, you know, in a germany which claims to have loved the lessons from industry. instead, what they're doing is banning a doctor who is a witness to genocide from bearing witness to what he saw on in the united states. we still have 1st amendment protections, so the government called the quite as a blatant as the german government and simply binding people and ranging conferences. but instead, what you have is this mccarthy at which funds by congress and by university administrations against students and professors, and journalists and others being fired for the jobs fall. uh, speaking out of covering this, this out story to honestly yeah, there was one from the, the hill. uh, i know just uh yeah, but then um, if there are reasons were optimism actually is a generation of elite students. and then we're going to forget this maybe, unless their student loans being paid back,

mean they have to forget it. what kind of revenge can we expect from those children who are surviving beyond slowed a british american to you bombing in gaza in jerusalem as we speak? now? i don't think it's the question of revenge. i think that the palestinian people like other colonized peoples, have shown remarkable patience and magnanimity towards their oppressive ad. remarkably little revenge who they had yet to my diary, it has gonna be said, i used to be a nelson mandela in dubai once. and i wonder why he was giving away so much to a liberal forces after fighting so long against the pods i there a yeah, for a say a point i'm proud of cities have never sought revenge. certainly not in the way that israel is now carrying out a revenge genocide, a, you know, just unspeakable atrocities. just out of, almost for the sheer joy we see is ready. so i'll just post the videos of the selves,

celebrating this unspeakable violence. it is not revenge that they will get from the palestinians, but it is resistance. they will get resistance until palestinians the liberated and resistance is a right. resistance is something that an oppressor, like israel can expect to. every thing israel has done to the palestinian people. now for a decade has only strengthened the resistance and i have no doubt that that will continue. yeah, those atrocity videos posted by israeli occupation forces. i mean, these are just all of our kind. i mean, we saw a british and american soldiers use of torture in afghanistan and iraq right now as the detaining thousands of palestinians, while the gaza genocide continues. is it like abu ghraib, what's going onto these palestinians behind the scenes of even, is there any soldiers on posting? it certainly sounds like it do, you know,

some of the reports of sexual torture and filings coming out of this is the 10 man torture camp. this concentration camp where israel is holding thousands of policies, incommunicado, a very reminiscent of the terrific torture carried out by the american tortures that upgrade present in iraq. now, 20 years ago. it seems unbelievable to me that it's that long. and i think the difference now is up also many people site that this is the 1st live stream genocide, and that's right. the technology and the availability of you know, the, the ubiquity of, of cameras and video of every where even in gaza. it means that these atrocities are being seen in a way that they might not have been seen even 10 years ago and certainly not 20 years ago. but that said,

there is an openness to the glee and celebration of, of genocidal violence. it is route that i think goes beyond anything that we saw during the iraq war during so you know, apartheid in south africa that does seem to be on the hinge of extremism among the is ready, public and leadership. which i think stems from largely, from the impunity and immunity they've enjoyed because of this support from the united states, the european union and the west in general have sent the message to them for a decade after decade. you can do no wrong, no matter what you do to the products, things will back you will protect, you will support you will. i'm you and these various have gotten the message, frankly, the thing with us, remember just fine. the yeah, we must remember. it's, of course, the british to europe in union and united states enabling any mental illness

national we just finally we're starting to get inklings of people suddenly starting to understand what the electronic intifada has been saying for you is that the 2 state solution is all the way forward i would you say now advocating a 2 state solution is again, does a boating genocide almost. i mean, always out of this to state solution whereas the electronic intifada or has said for so many years, is it just a way of white bushing genocide and um and uh the breaking of international law and convention since 1945 yes, nobody believes it. um, you know, it, it's just a talking point to avoid reality. and the reality is that israel is a genocide or regime that has to go, that has no interest in co existing with the people whose rights it has use up for, you know, more than a 2 years. and that the last to admit that will be the so called political leaders

and the late. but as you say, the realization is now broader than among world publics, including, and especially in the west, where just the gap between leaders and public is wider than ever on so many fronts . and that will continue the way and this will grow. how do you have an email? thank you. thank you option. and that's ever the show continued condolences to those very by uga. you as you and genocide will be back with a brand new episode on saturday to angel. then keep in touch by will i social media? if it's not sensitive, knew a country that to our child going underground tv all normal, they'll come to us. new and old episodes of going undergrad, 2 sides of the

hello and welcome defrost the full board. here we discuss the wheel in the critical process. we need the precious participation gonna request the absence of the lesson for the reasons. our top story is a head on our 214 countries refuse to sign off on the final declarations from the so called ukrainian p summit in switzerland. the vast majority are from the global south. we are very poor that between russia and ukraine's heart of region. these are the positions of russians you a, the pilots as the russian army advances to the heart coverage. and you are the operators from the o'clock battalion like