dying from starvation and with hundreds of thousands of schools, universities, mosques, churches, hospitals, and houses destroyed. they have no way to go. joining me now from chicago is ali. i'm the name of the founder and director of the electronic intifada. he's the author of the battle for justice in palestine. ali thank so much for coming on going underground. you know, the electronic intifada is being such a resource. just so many people find nearly quarter of a century. just gimme a reaction to a nato's media propaganda campaign, celebrating israel saving a full captives from gaza recently. and i understand the british propaganda network, the bbc founded 9022, celebrating it with you know, it was an in tab like rescue and people were dancing in the streets. thank you so much. have sion while it, it's awfully grotesque, of course because they're all down playing just the sheer atrocities. israel committed a murdering almost 300 palestinians injuring almost

twice as many had in fact killing according to the palestinian resistance. 3 other is rarely captives in the process. so this blog bos, it should really underscores country to what the bbc, these really government might want us to believe. that the only way to get this really present as a fallback is uh to end the war to end the genocide, to israel, to agree to what the americans insist as its own ceasefire proposal. and to address all the other root causes of this uh, horrifying, an escalating file, its something that they want to tell me. what did it go through these areas? so called durham lists minds when they hear by them saying it's in, is really proposal for peace. and then clearly blinking is saying things

like a, well, we have to, israel has accepted it. how much does the distance it's, it's kind of in what he actually says and then blaming him us for coming back late on it. and i mean, was it that how much is it? how mouth resolution resolution at the security council? 2735 more or less the united states is promoting. i mean, to cut through this, i think what's happening uh, is that to the so called is rarely proposal presented by the americans. is actually a watered down version of the proposal presented by the americans to mass and early may, which him us accepted. but this being warranted down to make it vague and to remove the question, if i as

a permanent sees 5 something that how mass insists is its bottom line and stop going to back off from that. but um, ultimately your, if you crossed your mind back to the beginning of this genocide option for both the united states and this really said a cease fire means how much has won an israel has been defeated. so which is true because remember, as we all went in saying, we're going to destroy some estimate of terribly and politically and in every other way. and here they are negotiating with him as appealing to em, us to accept their proposals. so in order to try to spend as something other than it is ready to fade, they have to pretend this is a magnanimous proposal from israel and make it look as if it's israel. so initiative rather than as a defeat, being imposed on israel by the resistance. so that's what all of these american

contortions are about. in the best case. do the americans really want a seas 5? i think they do, if it's on his rarely terms. if not, they're willing to let the genocide go on and on. and then all those, these diplomatic shenanigans and pretends that the, you know, this is an is ready proposal is simply a survey to try to cover and absolve both israel and the united states for continuing this genocide and to blame. how much asked for the failure to end it? i mean, there is no free pressing nato nation, scaly. are they doing that jobs then? well, the new york times washington, both the cnn, all these different groupings in terms of trying to cloud this issue so that people don't hear what you just told me. yes, of course, they're largely propaganda. they offer right operators, extensions,

if the governments and the establishment with a veneer of criticism in the field or a veneer of you know, adversarial. and this at times to try to maintain the image that they are somehow a free press, holding a power to account. but they only do that at the margins and on in consequential things. and for the most part, they loaned the lies and propaganda of the governments. we've seen that, you know, glaringly in the case of gaza, but also in the case of ukraine and russia as well. yeah, some say that they want to, to finish with this guys situation the by the ministration, jake sullivan and the rest of them because they want to get on to this had targeting of russia that sample one. and the one that gets support because the unprovoked russian aggression even has that narrative,

even as the support of the biden's base, so much as the lives being about the grand conflict. i'm not sure that the diva does have the support of bite in space. you know, they, they were successful in manufacturing consent for the, the proxy war against russia, which thanks to the united states as cost hundreds of thousands of ukrainian lives in a futile attempt to destroy all cut tale russia. but i think in both cases of ukraine and gaza, these have been, you know, yet mall horrific american driven american lead catastrophes. human catastrophes and political catastrophes just like the catastrophes in iraq and afghanistan. and so they see, you know, these, the people in charge, a psychopaths, they have no human feeling, no empathy,

no ability to relate to others. they view this entirely through the lens of the own political and misconceived strategic interests. so i think what it is, is they want to manage it for public relations purposes and for elect oral purposes . so in the case of gaza, if they can get to cease fire on is really in american terms. so be it. if not that happy to let the slow to continue, but then they want to shift the blame for that to him as an for political and electrical reasons, gets it off genocide, jo by them. and then when, when it comes to ukraine, they know that they're not going to defeat russia, but they want to so to keep it going, avoid the total collapse at least until after the election. and they just don't count how many ukrainians have to be kidnapped off the streets and sent to the front to dive for jake sullivan and joe biden. so when berlington standing next to

the guitar, a counterpart and a those guitar estate tv, i've been doing such amazing work from gaza that john list in, in there are illuminating things and yet guitar you television is uh, key chain leader of us policy. the proxy war against russia through ukraine, against venezuela or against booking. the fact is aligned against china. but lincoln standing next to the guitar, a counterpart saying in grim tones, he knows the pain of the palestinians. you see that there's model or side golf as a yeah, i mean he cost he's, he's largely responsible for lots of the pain. remember that, anton, a blink can possibly has signed wavers bypassing congress in order to speed up the weapons deliveries to israel. so that it can have enough of these babies, shred the all baby bus to bombs,

to carry out these massacres. so if he knows the payments because he's largely responsible for it. and of course he's spokes. people saying that's actually a normal process. those waivers, he's not doing anything unusual. back to electronic intifada. i mean, you know, all these people who think the war started on october and last year you've been covering it as i say for 2, you know, more than 2 decades of a quarter century. regarding this rescue, a full captives and as you said, i mean we, as far as we know it, a 1000 killed a wounded pilot palestinians. what are you information, are you getting as regards um, any american involvement, the pe and humanitarian pierre, whether they were american soldiers, american enabling, i mean this sense doesn't matter, because obviously the weapons the is riley's use to be had the children are uh, american and british anyway, but any, any information i think because it depends, it can very quick. i should just say,

just say we, we have nothing to do with this. yes, i mean, just to say there's a lots of sort of swelling supposition or theories and very level firm evidence. i mean, the military experts i've talked to, including the electronic it to father's john elma, say that that would be no real tactical advantage to using the peer. it's this, rick, it's the thing that keeps floating away and it's not as if you can land heavy weapons on it. you can't put a tank on it. for example, it would, uh $6070.00 put that on tank. and why would the as early as need to do that because the p a is at the end of something called a net serene car adult, which is this lots, lots of gaza that israel has occupied and tried to turn into a permanent security. so dividing causative from north to south,

and israel has several large military bases in the next room card or so why would they come off the p a when they have these military bases that they can just drive in from israel, which is what, in fact they do and then we hugged reports that i'm verified or, and verifiable of us forces taking place. and i think that, you know, hopefully time will tell. we'd be able to get some more fun information that we have now. but i think what you put to me in the 2nd part of your question is really more of the point is that as regardless as these tactical details of american involvement. and clearly that was an american involvement in terms of you know, perhaps intelligence or planning. they've admitted that much, but yeah, they've admitted that takes all of it. all right, national security. but we are helping israel retrieve the captives. correct. so

there's probably intelligence planning, other sorts of information, but the bigger picture is that israel is that the united states, rather, excuse me, is the godfather, this genocide. so regardless of whether the appear was involved, or whether uh, you know, us army ranges or whatever the called were involved, which again, we have no firm evidence of the americans other dr. visit this genocide and that must not be have a football. how do you, i believe i'll stop you that more from the founder, director of the electronic intifada dropped in his break. the the

the hi, i'm acceptable and i'm here to plan with you. whatever you do. do not watch my new show. seriously. why watch something that's so different whitelisted opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to please. i do have the state department, the c i a weapons makers, multi $1000000000.00 corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead, change and whatever you do. don't want my show stay main street because i'm

probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called stretching time, but again, it's not. we don't want to watch it because it might just change the way and say welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with the founder and director of the electronic intifada. holly ebony with oh, you were actually mentioning about one your colleague, john, who just recently understood the detailed report about the fact that it was these reilly's killing their own people. on october, the 7th, you just put a briefly recap, some of that people can watch that on line. i actually got that report. i think you're referring to his by my colleague david shane and david chance hope a sub yes. since october 7th, we've done extensive reporting on what happened on october 7th. and again, using las vegas really sources which show the country to the official narrative and

the one spread by western media propaganda. israel killed many, if not most of its own people. on october 7th, using you know, under something called the high level directed, which is this one secret now, widely known as rarely order that allows the military to use overwhelming. forced to stop is riley is being taken captive, even if that means killing those as rarely as in the process. and the hannibal procedure was applied widely on october 7th, and ordered from the top. that's something we've documented, again, from mr. energy sources. and in addition to that, there was just indiscriminate fire, panic, and chaos as the as rarely ami subdivision collapsed under the sophisticated and well planned military attack by the palestinian resistance. and what we've also

documented since october 7th, through very meticulous reporting. again, based largely, almost entirely on his resources is how to cover up this massive failure and this massive killing of its own citizens. israel including is riley, see me a post, a military offices like a general by rochester. um and kind of will go out and find who we, who our colleague, david seen reports on a detail manufactured across the details, including details of fund babies. uh, from uh you know, children being tied to get there in set on fire families being but i did at the dinner table and of course, that the claims of mass sexual violence on october 7th, the evidence is clear. none of this ever happened. it simply didn't happen and we documented that, but you won't find it to be on the bbc or cnn or the new york times. so instead,

continue to perpetrate an advanced these hoaxes. in the case of bar up here, um this is ready general. he actually ordered it is rarely times to open fire on a house in cuba. it's berry on october 7th, where 15 the civilians is really a civilians are being helped telling almost all of them the only 2 survivors who live to tell the tale. and it's, thanks to them, this is ready to survive as yes mean power, right. and how does the gun that we know that the come most fighters were not abusing or harming the civilians in that house that everyone was killed not by the have as fighters bought by the is really tank fire. and then off to that mass unable attack the mass killing of his riley's by the is ready army general bar up here. um, went out and lied and told this of this completely made up story

about how all these people were killed. and we know that these sorts of things happened up across the region across as what they call southern israel on october 7th. but uh, this being very little truce telling about it. and that needs to be a full international independent investigation which unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be a lot of support for an issue at all. so u a u n is m one and um, i'd say ad and does your venture was on this shows that they seen videos. there's other that i've seen videos padded babies born baby, and then no, but we have a problem or is really just as smooth as through who walked out of the interview here when we talked to him about this a sexual violence which was a key intro by no, the electronic intifada is documented the sexual violence by israelis against palestinians over over a many years in fantasy,

even the at all times has been actively i said that these rape claims a systematic rape claims with false a whole whole newspapers. but of course, by time the eliza route in the public imagination, they are out of britain. the p and union successfully instituted continental censorship over not season zalinski and ukraine. people are banned. it's illegal in britain to, i think even repeats a bbc previous reporting about nazis. as well now, i suppose the funded by nature of nations. what are they going to do to people like you, electronic intifada, and other groups that are exposing on a daily basis and have been to stop them from showing that these narrative is being spread from israel and they write back the election, manipulated the american politicians are all lies as well. they're already doing it,

not just to us specifically, but all across the so called collective west, where we see a brutal sense to ship and repression. i'll just give you one example. i'm familiar with personally in april i was invited to speak at the conference in berlin, organized by the palestinian community that along with jewish allies in solidarity with palestine. and i was all it to be invited to speak alongside dr. a sign up was sent to the british palestinian surgeon and director of glasgow university who spent the fort 1st 43 days of this genocide in gaza, tracing people on witnessing atrocities. and what did the german government do? they banned him. a british citizen from entering germany, they banned him from most of europe, the so called shak good uh, visa, free travel area. and they even banned him from speaking online to anyone in

germany. uh they, they, the conference itself, i was suppose to speak remotely from the united states. at last at less than an hour before german police dogs rated it all tough. the electricity of drove everyone out. and the german press report to the pipe may well be under travel by and i don't know if i am because i didn't attempt to travel to germany or the shaking area. but we see this across a hi, this is a search and who is saving lives? in guys a yes and who's gone to speak about witnessing genocide, you know, in a germany which claims to have loved the lessons from industry. instead, what they're doing is binding a doctor who is a witness to genocide from bearing witness to what he saw on in the united states. we still have 1st amendment protections, so the government can't be quite as blatant as the german government and simply

binding people and ranging conferences. but instead, what you have is this mccarthy at which funds by congress and by university administration. so again, students and professors, and journalists and others being fired for the jobs fall. uh, speaking out of covering this, this out story to honestly, yeah, there was one from the, the hill. uh, i noticed uh earlier but then um, if there are reasons for optimism actually because a generation of elite students and then we're going to forget this maybe unless their student loans being paid back, mean they have to forget it. what kind of revenge can we expect from those children who are surviving beyond slowed a british american to you bombing in gaza in jerusalem as we speak? now? i don't think it's the question of revenge. i think that the palestinian people like other colonized peoples, have shown remarkable patience and magnanimity towards their oppressive ad.

remarkably little revenge who they had yet to my diary, it has gonna be said, i used to be a nelson mandela in dubai once. and i wonder why he was giving away so much to a liberal forces after fighting so long against abide there a yeah. for a fire point and process cities have never sought revenge. certainly not the way that israel is now carrying out a revenge genocide of you know, just unspeakable atrocities. just out of, almost for the sheer joy we see is ready. so i'll just post the videos of the selves, celebrating this unspeakable violent. it is not revenge. that they will get from the palestinians, but it is resistance. they will get resistance until palestinians deliberated. and resistance is a right. resistance is something that an oppressor, like israel unexpected. every thing israel has done to the policy and people now

for a decade has only strengthened the resistance and, and i, i have no doubt that that will continue. yeah, those atrocity videos posted by israeli occupation forces. i mean, these are just all of a kind. i mean, we saw a british and american soldiers use of torture in afghanistan and iraq right now as the detaining thousands of palestinians, while the gaza genocide continues. is it like abu ghraib, what's going onto these palestinians behind the scenes of even, is there any soldiers on posting? it certainly sounds like it do, you know, some of the reports of sexual torture and filings coming out of this is the 10 man torture camp. this concentration camp where israel is holding thousands of policies, incommunicado, a very reminiscent of the perfect torture carried out by the american tortures that upgrade present in iraq. now,

20 years ago. it seems unbelievable to me that it's that long. and i think the difference now is up also many people site that this is the 1st live stream genocide, and that's right. the technology and the availability of, you know, the, the ubiquity of, of cameras and video of every way, even in gaza. it means that these atrocities are being seen in a way that they might not have been seen even 10 years ago and certainly not 20 years ago. but that said, there is an openness to the glee and celebration of, of genocidal violence that is throughout the i think goes beyond anything we saw during the iraq war during the saw. you know, apartheid in south africa. that does seem to be on the hinge of extremism among the is ready, public and leadership,

which i think stems from largely from the impunity and immunity they've enjoyed. because of the support from the united states, the european union, and the west in general have sent the message to them for a decade after decade. you can do no wrong, no matter what you do to the products, students will back, you will protect, you will support you will. um you have these various have gotten the message, frankly the with us remember just fine. the yeah, we must remember it's of course, the british to europe in union and united states enabling any mental illness. national we just finally we're starting to get inklings of people suddenly starting to understand what the electronic intifada has been saying for you is that the 2 state solution is all the way forward. i would you say now advocating a 2 state solution as it came to supporting genocide almost. i mean, always out of this to state solution whereas that they had to try to get divider has said for so many years. is it just

a way of white bushing genocide and um and uh the breaking of international law and convention, since 1945 yes, nobody believes it. um and you know, it's just a talking point avoid reality. and the reality is that israel is the genocide or regime that has to go, that has no interest in co existing with the people whose rights it has use up for you know, more than a 2 years. and that the last to admit that will be the so called political leaders and the late. but as you say, the realization is now broader than ever among wealth public's including and especially in the west, where just a gap between leaders and public is wider than ever on so many friends. and that will continue to what and this will grow. how do you have an email? thank you. thank you option. and that's ever the show continued condolences to

those very by uga. you as you and genocide will be back with a brand new episode on saturday until then keep in touch by the social media. if it's not sensitive, you'll country that to our channel going underground tv all normal. they'll come to us new and old episodes of going undergrad, 2 sides of the hello and welcome defrost of full force. here we discuss the wheel in the money into the to attempt to collect at the exit amount. apache sat there for the show event. it will be a job to lovely cause of

a dish. uh, excuse us, use the contacts for separately for the setup button, and not to mention that that's a month 50 lives. you'd ask that if i said the media, i love you focused on you to reason, could you say, would you say the new country tempe, me show us the deals for the money order work you're done. stimulus the industry is it'll, what's money will funnel says really left? so should william farmer shots might give us who we have got cash door to go? what decision did my name and what was that? that was, what was that ridiculous on the what is the best one today and, but you also also split up what it is that you want to set. i'm showing total set british on june was on fish and did it for she's getting those are the best do what i mean? there's a, there's accomplish half the

the nato considers putting it's nuclear are still in the states of called him body readiness, citing a threat from russia and china, while most of the labels that moved further escalation of tension was coming up in the program. the is really prime minister does all of his 6 person work happening after a coalition for politics with that's us. protestors the mom, the government resigned an opposition party, something even mentioned. yes. suddenly nothing remain or there will be no square names. no schools, there will be no palms enough benjamin it's difficult to describe the emotion, anticipation of and often every good and honest the russian.