the, well, only the fuse of the media were allowed to answer, as most schools said, that all of its input into the case has been ignored by the you, any of the ocean con. so it's, it's hard to make sense if not because the length of this pro you would think that trying to get to the bottom of things. you would want all possible information from all parties to this case. yes, of course. and also, it was clear and there was some settling images from the us. and they're one of these into the courts straight away, and they're all they will ever given, but maybe later wrong. so all these things, you know, and i'm russia was not allowed even to come to the cross sides, the international civil aviation organization itself. sonya, can you give us a sense perhaps of, of the sort of jurisdiction it holes and what, what can i do with this case? well, i think not much because, you know, if the case is now nearly 10 years old. so is every very strange case actually when

you think deeply about is i think at the law it's, yeah it's, it's like the us or international law all day. it's not the russia who was involved, but they want to put it this way that there is actually a is ingle. another is a rep from the r t international news room for now, but our programs, they're just kicking off. see what's showing wherever you are today. in moments goodbye the to take a fresh look around his life. kaleidoscopic isn't just a shepherd, reality distortion by power to division with no real live indians. fixtures, design to simplify will confuse really once a better wills,

and is it just as a chosen few fractured images presented to this, but can you see through their illusion going underground, can the hello and welcome to cross stock, where all things are considered on peter live. male, russian president vladimir putin, his late condition for ukraine, that he said would lead to an immediate cease fire and ultimately an end to the conflict. unfortunately, the west is more interested in escalation in more war, rather than establishing peace to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess even guy each in bel rate. he is a research associate at build rates institute for european studies. and here in

moscow, we cross do dmitri bobby cheese a political analyst at spoke nick, international regional named cross type roles. and the fact that means you can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate it grow. start off with our guest in belgrade, which really quite curious as we speak. there is a so called peace conference going on in switzerland. it's been advertised for a long time. it's some kind of a silver bullet that there's a mile bull blue print out there at all. we have to do is get directions to agree to it, which of course as far as that goal, actually, even mainstream media is cast a lot of doubt out at what's very interesting to both of you. is that what am i putting again for the 2nd time and as many months basically said, you know, what needs to be done to get to a lease, the cease fire, the cessation of hostilities, and to just start negotiations. just to remind our audience, there is basically 4 elements to that cube a remains neutral, not enjoying any kind of military blocks remains, remains non aligned,

but it's not clear if that includes the e u, that's open to question non nucular status. that is obviously clear in the lifting of sanctions. stephen, this is this starting point now in my mind and looking at how complex come to an end. so you have a starting point like we had the stem bull process. ok. essentially there. uh we have um seen this complet go on much longer than it needed to. again, we have a blueprint to start ending this conflict. they're talking about something completely different in switzerland right now. go ahead. yeah, exactly. i think the problem is that, uh, russia doesn't have a serious negotiator on the, on the other side. and what we see is that some kind of, i'd say, incident tile premeditated murders. because a while arming your brain, basically, sending more and more ukranian boys to die. they are singing songs to all of souls

. and this, this reminds me. and they, there's a happy birthday to you, you know, not found g 7. now look at all the scandals because buyer is the, is doing a on, on every, basically occasionally the piece present on this reminded me ill of an interview by a famous musician of frank zappa from 1987. he gave it to c. and as the girl, the crossfire decide what of the walk through the song that he would've liked her to listen to. he said we are the world. and i said, it's really a remarkable how she got the point because in 2015 on the meeting of the heads of us has a foreign ministers of nato. they were all singing, we are the world as they were preparing to escalate the conflict. i mean, you great, i mean let's remind everybody that the war actually started in 2016 and then it's

like i called him childish dial a pre emptive p inmate. that is murder because of that. well, you know, the really interesting of notice. yeah, i'll throw this the demo right now. i mean, news reports are come out as they were convening in switzerland and i, i thought i found this from multiple sources but just one. but it's essentially what they're really willing to negotiate is that i don't need a drum roll for this here. food in new killer safety. both are important. yep. i agree. a and prisoner exchange. this is what they're going to be talking about. so this is not a peace conference, it's essentially a way to isolate russia. i mean, what kind of have you ever heard of a, of a conference sending a conflict where one of the belligerents is not there? i mean, this is beyond absurd. it's instant tile is stephen and said go ahead demon and oh, i agree with you. it seems some type of let's see, things in progress. ok or to

a pro just to be settlement. the 1st is do viewing in complex, and this is what profit goes to just. this is actually importance approach right now. he said that if we agree that full regents with joint russia, we will remain rushed to including crime you. if we agree that you don't join nature, then we will resolve a bigger problem. the problem of the 10 friends between russia and the west and human sanctions may be well taking. the long perspective wondering does not need to understand that if there is a peace settlement, can you grant it doesn't the means that's us. morse, according to which sanctions bartonville was the last. you will be better tomorrow, but again, uh what it wants to view. it includes to that you graham's edge, you in the beginning was the same. but the, with the minus sign like russia must be, go all its forces. rush,

a must be in crack, the pitcher rate. uh, you know, a pro russian a citizen. so if you're grange will be brought to justice, russian generals will be brought to justice. basically, this is andrea, at least. so it became clear, do they agree in simple their western supports us before the conference? no one will come to such a one time. even india is not interested in coming to appropriate guarantee events that will require rush detroit, you know? so they decided to narrow the agenda to issues that are important to eva. and i'm sorry to deal with this the, to the demo can to talk about those issues over resume call as well. that's the problem. you know, this was the only way the landscape would persuade, uh, neutral countries, you know, congress of the global south, some of them to come to this conference. ok. everyone is interested in

u. s. safety that isn't for. yeah, but the team didn't i don't, i don't think zalinski convinced anybody of anything. stephen, i think it was the us basically intimidating. a smaller country, smaller powers. you better show up and they get a sense. i'm kind of deputy assistant and things like that. mean, this is what we've seen. this is even in western coverage of this, of this we're big non event. but, you know, steven the, the issue is here. it's again, you know, with all of this money, an arm is from the west being poured into ukraine. it still has nothing to do with ukraine. it's all about focusing on russia. defeating russia strategically knocking it off the uh, the pantheon of great powers and to isolated. none of these things are going to happen. this conference highlights that's failure more than anything else. exactly, but the problem with the west is that it lives in some kind of 1990 and

a 1000. so what they want, they want another federal republic of yugoslavia. they want the page say beautiful for putting and they all the generals and then they want to impact on their piece and the sense of justice board on quote. this is ridiculous, of course, the west is actually being isolated and not even to talk about you credit. ukraine is an object of international relations. it is not a subject is not deciding anything. it is being murdered by its friends. you know, there were friends of syria and we have friends of your grades and what they are doing is they are treating them as, as children, although they are behaving in from dial as, as we saw, all these conferences thinking of the song sounds. and at the same time, it seems that they kind of get over as i sat there drunk with the power that they have already lost. it is like a maybe it's comparable to

a junkie that only have the supply of valve drugs update, has a memory of how it was. and that's what the worst is constantly doing. i mean, russia is trying to make a strategic deal. it is not talking about your brain only it is talking about the bigger problem. and the bigger problem with the security in europe is the, you know, where nato borders are going to be. what the nature of what they did is only expand it expanded in southeast europe. uh with the several others. i like the golden banana republics in the balkans being basically added without any consent from their citizens without a referendum when they saw an individual possible there they did to freeland and, and sweden, i mean, nobody off the things or the sweets. i mean, there were polls, right. so we heard about the polls, but we never saw a democratic process where these countries joined me too. so i mesa and stevens, even if i said to you, i think you would agree with me these,

the european elections that we saw is a, it least in direct ask for mason that the people would like to have the say and the issues of peace and war we, people are exhausted as of these a leads and a what is more and more obvious is that the european, the so called and leaves. european governments are only vibes, all bots, of, of, of washington. i don't have any c, h, souls, they don't say a word about north stream being got bombed by the fact that states being destroyed . but she accept the birthday wishes. zillow, as if you're going to, i don't know if the, uh, get a happy meal or the, i mean, this is, this is so, it would have been extremely funny if we were not all home just of this situation. where, where do you can have a really dire consequences? well, in stephen and beam of the, the one of the most hawkish part of the political parties in europe is, is germany's greens and look at the electorate gave them an election. it's really

quite external. you know, you know, team of the, it, stevens absolutely right. they mean what's the most important issue here is not it, they call it a peace conference, but they're not talking about peace as a matter of fact. i mean, i know joe biden is a very busy man. i mean, he's got that from razor and i'm in california who admits that. okay, but i mean, this is brain child is people created this catastrophe, cheaper for ukraine and he to, if they can even deign to show up. ok, maybe he'll be looking for a chair. i don't know. but do you know demon this is not about trying to bring peace back to europe, stevens, absolute right. how you can text realize it is bringing peace back to the content and that's not what's an issue here in switzerland demo to the rate. uh, and i think uh you didn't chose this time for made the statement of course, in order to foreshadow show that in significance, all these confidence in switzerland because what, you know,

suggestions are very concrete. and, and they really thought you want issues that are, that are important, that interest every well, let me ask you had to go into details, you know, full euclid security. and you can have security talk was he has suggestions that's a little bit under at least the cannot deal bad when you play a power station to the green. yes, the fuser machine, which is moving, you know, cynthia is rush and she just left to the border which is that they can strategic focused jeep inside russia, which is the, presumably, even in fact the array just ation which was supposed to provide security, diggings, euclid. that's the even the nuclear power stations do any responsible review, of course that's spelled went to crap. but i agree with stephen. i really want to say more of the west is still just don't just about banking 9 just by the about 19 seventies. when g 7, the veteran g, the main you corner using the world. so they are speaking,

they're saying where of the world, leave any of the 7? well, you know, the game i have to jump in here. we have to go to a break, but you know, it's thinking we are the world when you think of the g 7, all the great western colonial powers. that's kind of an interesting comparison. gentleman, i'm going to jump in here. we're gonna go to a short break, and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on some illness. stay with archie. the the thing that would inform you to have with them for the gifts for the state of celia was because they did just wouldn't care to give the car through the new year . oh for g like each so i know for me, kitchen clip car scholars should thoughtful and you have to go to some go to west

valley approach you with that the for, she's more, it's a washing machine and then you must move them on the status of enforcement seamlessly putting them on big letters and boom, let me look into that. i will just, i did i as well as to the lowest, the unload. i did some of that. i'll study to the progressive rock and you say the shortest finish. this is just all just for good news. i can't, i'm a fraction of what do you come seem to do friday is a material ordering some of our people for the for sure, and shoot me an the temperature of intention to some of this. the welcome back to process. we're all things considered. i'm peter, let's remind you. we're discussing some real news. you know, steven, how you brought up? probably the most salient point of the, of this whole issue this about the non issue of this conference in switzerland. and

what vladimir putin is announced again, i mean it's all you have to go to the tucker carlson interview. i mean there's plenty of like go to the kremlin website. i mean there's play, it's, it's all, it's, it's very frustrating for me is, you know, what do the russians want, what do they just listen to what they have to say, and you can disagree with it, have. that's what i have no problem with that. but that, that their position is very, very clear, far more clear than ukraine's western allies. the point you brought up that i think is really important. visits. let's go back to december 2021. when russia said, look, we want to be sent to, you know, of an agreement, a draft treaty and ultimatum, whatever you want to call, it's fine with me to the united states and nato. what do you bet? bye friend, that's still the basis of how this conflict is going to be result in you, but it hasn't changed. go ahead. exactly. instead of actually negotiating

well on, the european leaders are doing is they are literally putting you are at risk data. i mean, it's going to be burned to land if this continues like that if they continue singing tyler songs and actually arming uh nothing automatically fueling the conflict because nothing but the police has changed apart from more man dying on both sides, particularly on the cranium side and this, it but, but the thing is that they still think that this is the same game that they can walk this from the distance. whereas russia has repeatedly said that, for instance, if an f 16 plane flies from an 8, the country that the, that the airfield will be bumped off or started at the same time. what we hear occurred from c knock from my throne is that, uh ukraine should even from, by that ukraine should be able to bomb ross up proper territory, right?

with the weapons provide. i mean, this is ridiculous. it i and, and i don't really see what is their point. do me, baby, they are some kind of a, i don't know if that, that it causes that once the destruction of the world, because i come find a normal, rational, a solution with, with the, let me, let me, let me propose this to you is something i've been pondering, okay. you in the west, in nato land, they have the vaunted article 5. that's like they're, they're, they're a secret sauce that's, they're, they're, they're a great already. you know, that's their shields, you know, and they go on and on and on about it because you brought it up, you know, what, let's say there's an air, a nato air field in romania and poland. okay. and f sixteens take off there. it's unclear what they're, what kind of munition they have here is a new killer tipped. we don't know. okay, there, i'm certainly not going to communicate that. but then, and then on the other side, is there any other issues this like? well, i mean article fives important to you, but i okay. well the way to say otherwise, but those planes in poland and romania they are killing our people. i mean,

you can talk about your article 5 all you want, but you know, we have, we have the right to self defense as well. and that is something that, you know, i don't know, stephen, this is what makes it so dangerous. are they really, they think they can bluff the russians. do think that they, they, they feel that, you know, after everything that's been said and done, absolute failure every step of the way of their calculation of this conflict here. they think they're going to bluff their way to victory stephen, i think they, they will try to and they've been trying to block their weight because they have this race. it's just the assumption that ross and somehow we'll see the white gauze in, in the west. and out of courtesy it won't respond. i think that there is a bit strange, a psychological game going over here. and actually, jeffrey sachs, you just mentioned uncle call. so because he had a really remarkable interview,

a disaster. and he said that he said that they thing that they will block their weight, but they don't get it. they don't get that. russia is a completely different society. they don't get that. they have actually awakes and i was in the balls of fire, the drops i have the they have a really, um, a way, couldn't indian, you know, even even many ways the and that the old mind games, the old tricks are never going to work. and these are the old colonial tricks. and the thing is that now we are in a problem because these people, they live in a completely separate reality. that as if they're come to their office the, that's the main problem. and the end, the main problem is that you don't rush are you sending the message, but i guess it is sending the message to 90 percent of the world actually that is listening to it. uh so that everybody knows what's going on. uh, we have a the ticket basic i'd say that made though is

a collective going to take that cold it citizens as hostages. and then the rest of the world is going to because what they can pro big and promote the damage. but they will never a certain global power, like this was in the, in the, in the ninety's. and that is the, that is the whole issue that we are facing now. you know, you know, do you may be a, always just reading some poll numbers. russians are afraid of the possibility of a 3rd world war, which would be obviously a new killer war. i don't see the same people asking um the hostages of stephen calls them in western europe the same question. but we do know with, you know, and i don't want to, you know, but the read too much into election result in the european union because, you know, there's so many other and there isn't regression going on. there's problems with the inflate. there's a lot of problems. okay. but there's also the issue of being very aggressive when it comes to russia talking about conscription. i thought of, i don't know any of your bands. they want to join the army and fight russians and

ukraine. i think that's delusional. here, but i mean, russian is take this very seriously and stephen's right, this country it and maybe you agree or disagree with me deem it, but it's changed in the last 2 and a half years. personally, i think for the better team. well, you are right. the congress changed and the entity, the world changed. id with steve, you know, of the absence of the piece moment. can you or is starting. and obviously these people do believe that these have sold the cargo caused by not going to shipped. uh, you know, the white boards, uh well you're right. you said that you sell them that these are formal one. your boss, do you in japan? where's the one who boss? okay. japan, be she in china and career 19. so it is like a colonial power, like a typical westdale, colonial power, you know, subjugated people, uh, cheated them,

look at history, japanese themselves, noted. but the point is that uh, everything is done in such a way that there would be no weight. but i mean, like, uh, just both of the general check. your major was saying natal congress are obliged to buy f 35 smartjets and make them capable of carrying nuclear weapons. what other means? it means that f sixteens, which will be replaced by f 35 can be given to grant, so we make sure there will be a disaster. there will be no wait back door, a large ones. yeah, i don't know g, but i mean steven, of 35, not a military expert, but i, i know it f 35 is a better, more modern plane in the f. 16 of 16. so i came into service when i was in high school. everyone was by the time, and that was a long time ago. hey, hang on, do you mind i, you know, these f a 35 steven, they'll burn like any other western nato plane. okay. and i and i,

and i think that's one of the hesitations. you know, they, they, the united states, you know, doesn't export many interesting things anymore outside of arms and watch those burning over this guy. so it'd be a crane, i don't think so. i think it's again, a lot of blustering bluff. go ahead. oh yeah, they will be the big ball as a fire. as jerry lewis, the one suspect about it. but the problem is you just mentioned the, the, the european elections. what i see is the back to fussy ization of europe. so instead of getting, let's say, solver list of parties who have, we used to have a completely different attitude towards russia. what we see is melanie's ation the process of you know, what georgia bologna initially did because at the beginning she was, you could even argue that she was pro russian in a sense. and now she's a champion of, of nato. she went to kia, giving supports, constantly and so on. so at the same time,

it seems that the americans are letting do you know, the kind of elusive, whatever it starts with a new crane, but now it's spreading through europe. yeah. but instead of these, uh, barbies a being a guess they to and actually afford deliberation of european countries from the talking for washington's occupation. what is happening is they're a, they're letting them have the same ideology. but with the different content related to say, is like a genetically modified by system that they gain or function gain a function, especially on whether whether europeans rectified the war, maybe not at this point. but i think that's what the, the, what the americans want is not the americans, the military industrial complex, not even like what i would say. but really the, the, the, the, the industry they want to do to, you know, uh, fashion size europe, to brutalize europe. so that it can and get the words you know,

that the point is here. it's really interesting is what you listening to these failing european leaders and just about everybody, every single one of them was crushed out electoral in the last election here. but demons, it's, it's very interesting, you know, stilton burgers, you know, he's general a secretary of nato. i mean, it basically formally a bureaucratic job. but now he's talking a like a bunch of land. i mean, he's like somebody of, of power. he's never been elected by anyone in the european union and that by nato countries. ok. but what, what is being pushed right now? because neo liberalism is utterly failing all across the western world is you need a war economy. they say the russians are on the work. well, no rush, it is a not a war economy, but they want to do that. it crushes the sent, it picks political and financial winners. okay. and, and what do you can do is you can start a closing down any kind of open discussion about what policy should be. you know, cobra was kind of an interesting prototype of this. go ahead demo. uh well,

i will say something that will make a lot of west the end. the no, but i think we have to say, uh, you know, no one played a big role in rehabilitation of style in russia than the west of dell and that's been charting fall without you know, spawning goal, german social democrats, social, fascist, i'm saying because they also stop with on the paper and, and it was a mistake. but when i looked at the social democrats today, you know, these people who signed the weapons to the key of the g. uh, who will say absolutely awful things about russia and china, by the way. these are social pressures and any plan what type of smell s g was absolutely right. we have and you edit you to sophie fashion bodies in your instead of fighting them, i am turned over to get to m d minor side with them. just do it with the system. i

run out of time, but i'm going to have a compromise with both what you just said. it's called the you creating is ation of the west. that's what was that gentleman. i want to thank my guest in belgrade and here in moscow. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here to our dc and next time remember, prospect rolls. the, the, what is part of the, the employee would post good. isn't the defense you of us and building the word? or is it something deeper, more complex might be present good. let's stop without cases. let's go out of

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