the, the, the hello and welcome to cross stock where all things are considered computer little bell, russian president vladimir putin, his late condition for ukraine, that he said would lead to an immediate cease fire and ultimately, and enter the conflict. unfortunately, the west is more interested in escalation in more war, rather than establishing peace to discuss these issues in more, i'm joined by my guess even guy each in bel rate. he is a research associate at build rates institute for european studies. and here in moscow we cross do dimitry, bobby cheese. a political analyst at spoke nick, international, regional named cross type roles in effect. that means you can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate it. all right,

let's start off with our guest in belgrade, which really quite curious as we speak. there is a so called peace conference going on in switzerland. it's been advertised for a long time. it's some kind of a silver bullet that there's a mile bull blueprint out there at all. we have to do is get directions through grade to it, which of course as far as that goal, actually, even mainstream media is cast a lot of doubt on what's very interesting to both of you. is that what am i putting again for the 2nd time and as many months have basically said, you know, what needs to be done to get to a least the ceasefire. the cessation of possibilities, and to just start negotiations. just to remind your audience, there are basically 4 elements to that cube a remains neutral, not enjoying any kind of military blocks, remains of remains non aligned. that's not clear. if that includes the you. that's open to question non nucular status, that is obviously clear in the lifting of sanctions. stephen,

this is this starting point. now in my mind and looking at how complex come to an end, you have a starting point like we had this then bull process ok. essentially there uh we have um seen this complet go on much longer than it needed to. again, we have a blueprint to start ending this conflict. they're talking about something completely different in switzerland right now. go ahead. yeah, exactly. i think the problem is that, uh, russia doesn't have a serious negotiator on the, on the other side. and what we see is that some kind of, i'd say, in front of the child pre meditated murders. because a while arming your brain, basically, sending more and more ukrainian boys to die. they are singing songs to all souls. and this, this reminds me, and they, there's a happy birthday to you, you know, not found g 7. now look at oldest campbells like it was by elizabeth is doing a on,

on every basically occasionally the piece present on this reminded me ill of an interview by a famous musician of frank zappa from 1987 he gave it to see. and as the girl got across fire, decide who after what do the song that you would like to to listen to. he said, we are the world. i said it's a really remarkable how she got the point because it, in 2015 on the meeting of the heads of us has a foreign ministers of nato. they were all thinking we are the world as they were preparing to escalate the conflict arming you. great. i mean let's remind everybody that the war actually starts in 2016. and then it's like a cold and childish diesel dial pre emptive re evaluated murder as well as the delay. what's really interesting, i've noticed that yeah,

i'll throw this the demo right now. i mean, news reports of come out as they were convening in switzerland and i, i thought i found this from multiple sources but just one. but it's essentially what they're really willing to negotiate is that i don't need a drum roll for this here. food in new killer safety. both are important. yep. i agree. a and prisoner exchange. this is what they're going to be talking about. so this is not a peace conference. it's essentially a way to isolate russia. i mean, what kind of have you ever heard of a, of a conference sending a conflict where one of the belligerence is not there. i mean, this is beyond absurd. it's instant tile is steven, is that go ahead demon? well, i agree with you. it seems some type of let's see, things in progress. ok, 3rd to a pro just to be settled. the fast is do viewing in complex. and this is what profit goes to just. this is actually importance of roll trade. now, he said that if we agree that full regents would, you're going to russia,

we will remain rush to including crime you. if we agree that you don't go in major, then we will resolve a bigger problem. the problem of the tension between russia in the west and human sanctions may be. ready or taking the long perspective, which one is not the youngest as the if there is a peace settlement, can you grant it? doesn't the means that us morse according to which sanctions but, and what was the last you will be better tomorrow. but again, uh, we're going to wants to view it in congress to the ukrainian edge. you is a big the name was the same, but the, with the minus sign like russia must be go all its forces. russia must be incorrect, the pitcher weight. uh, you know, a pro russian uh, citizen. so if you grange will be brought to justice, russian generals would be brought to justice. basically,

this is unrealistic. so it became clear to the greeting and send through their western sports us before the conference. no one who conquered such a one. i mean, even india is not interested in coming to appropriate guarantee when that will require rush detroit, you know, so they decided to narrow the age of the 2 issues that are important to you, but i'm sorry, they looked at you just, you know, they did to the demo can to talk about those issues over resume call as well. that's the problem. you know, this was the only way the landscape would persuade a neutral countries, you know, congress of the global south, some of them to come to this conference. ok, everyone is interested in your safety. that is important. yeah, but team didn't i don't, i don't think zelinski convinced anybody of anything. stephen, i think it was the u. s. basically intimidating. a smaller country,

smaller powers. you better show up and that get a sense. i'm kind of deputy assistant and things like that. i mean, this is what we've seen. this is even in western coverage of this, of this. we're big non event. but you know, steven the, the issue is here. it's again, you know, with all of this money, an arm is from the west being poured into ukraine. it still has nothing to do with ukraine. it's all about focusing on russia. defeating russia strategically knocking it off the uh, the pantheon of great powers, and to isolate it, none of these things are going to happen, this conference highlights, that's failure more than anything else. exactly. uh, the problem with the west is that it lives in some kind of 1990 and a 1000. so what they want, they want another federal republic of yugoslavia, the ones uh, paid say beautiful for uh,

putting and then all the generals and then uh they want to uh, impact on their peace and the sense of justice board on quote. this is ridiculous, of course, the west is actually being isolated and not able to talk about your credit. ukraine is an object of international relations. it is not a subject, it is not deciding anything. it is being murdered by its friends. you know, there were friends of syria and all we have friends of your grade. and what they are doing is they are treating them as a, as children. how old are they are behaving in from dial as, as we saw, all these conferences thinking of the song, you know, songs. and at the same time it seems that they kind of get over. as i sat there drunk with the power that they have already lost, it is like a maybe it's comparable to a junkie that only have the supply of valve drugs update has a memory of how it was. and that's what the worst is probably doing. i mean, russia is trying to make a strategic deal. it's not talking about your brain,

only it is talking about the bigger problem. and the bigger problem with the security in europe is being, you know, where nato borders are going to be. what the nature of what they did this is only expand it expanded in southeast europe. uh with the several. is that like the golden banana republics in the balkans being basically added without any consent from their citizens without referendum when they saw it individual possible there they did it to freeland and, and sweden, i mean, nobody off the fence or the sweets. i mean, there were polls. right. so we heard about the polls, but we never saw a democratic process where these countries enjoyed made so. so the mesa and stephen cbs, i said to you, i think you would agree with me these the european elections that we size a at least in direct ask for mason that the people would like to have the say and the issues of peace and war, we people are exhausted as of these a leads and

a what is more and more obvious is that the european, the so called and leaves. european governments are only vibes out bots of, of, of washington. i don't have any say a solve. didn't say a word about north stream being got bombed by these types of states being destroyed . but he, except the birthday wishes zillow, as if you're going to, i don't know if the, uh, get a happy meal of the, as i mean, this is, this is so, it would have been extremely funny if we were not all home, which is of the situation where, where it is, can have a really dire consequences. well, in stephen and beam of the, the, the one of the most hawkish part of the political parties in europe is, is germany's greens and look with the electorate gave them an election night. that's really quite external. you know, the, you know, team of the stevens absolutely. right. they meet, you know, what's the most important issue here is not it, they call it a peace conference,

but they're not talking about peace. as matter of fact, i mean, i know the joe biden is a very busy man. i mean, he's got that from razor and i'm in california who admits that. okay, but i mean, this is brain child is people created this catastrophe, cheaper for ukraine and he to, if they can even deign to show up. ok, maybe he'll be looking for a chair. i don't know. but do you know demon this is not about trying to bring peace back to europe, stevens obviously. right. how you can text realize it is bringing peace back to the content and that's not what's an issue here in switzerland demo. oh yeah, absolutely. right. uh, and i think the agent chose this time to make the statement, of course, in order to foreshadow to show that in significance, all these confidence in switzerland. because what, you know, suggestions are very concrete. and, and they really thought you want issues that are, that are important, that interest every well, let's get hard to go into details, you know,

full euclid security. and you can have security talk was he has suggestions up, so we'll get at least the panel deal back when you play a power station to that you bring the user machine, which is boating. you know, cynthia is reference you just next to the border, which is i've taken strategic all just jeep inside russia, which is a, is, it are presumably, even in fact the array just ation, which was supposed to provide security, diggings, euclid. that's the even the nuclear power stations do any responsible regime. of course that's spelled went to crap. but i agree with stephen. i really want to say more of the west as much. they'll just go just about banking 9 just by the about 19 seventies. when g sir was a very g, the man you call him using the world. so they are speaking, they're saying where of the world, leave any of the 7? well, you know, the game i have to jump in here. we have to go to a break, but you know, it's thinking we are the world when you think of the g 7,

all the great western colonial powers. that's kind of an interesting comparison. gentleman, i'm going to jump in here. really go to a short break and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on some illness. stay with archie. the show. they just don't have to say about it comes to education and engagement trails. when so many find themselves will support. we choose to look for common ground, the the water is part of one of the

valuable posted isn't the deepest view of us and that in the word part is it something deeper, more complex might be present to that stop without collisions that stuff out of the as the russian states, never as one of the most sense community best can hold us, i'll send some of the same assistance to father speedy. what else? suppose question about this? even though we will ben in the european union, the kremlin media mission, the state on the rush of funding and split the ortiz full neck team and our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube. the said this was the question, did you say?

even closer to the welcome back across like were all things are considered. i'm peter a little to remind you. we're discussing some real news. you know, steven, how you brought up? probably the most salient point of the, of this whole issue this about the non issue of this conference in switzerland. and what vladimir putin is announced again, i mean it's all you have to go to the tucker carlson interview. i mean, there's plenty of place go to the kremlin website. i mean there's play, it's,

it's all, it's, it's very frustrating for me is, you know, what to the russians want, what do they just listen to what they have to say and you can disagree with it, have, that's not, i have no problem with that. but that their position is very, very clear, far more clear than ukraine's western allies. the point you brought up that i think is really important. is it? let's go back to december 2021. and when russia said, look, we want to send to, you know, an agreement, a draft treaty and ultimatum, whatever you want to call, it's fine with me to the united states and to nato. what do you bet, bye friend, that's still the basis of how this conflict is going to be result in your brain. it hasn't changed. go ahead. exactly. instead of actually negotiating well ok, you're being leaders are doing is they are literally putting you are up at risk they, i mean it's going to be burned to land if this continues like that. if they continue singing tyler songs and actually arming realty phenomena,

think viewing the conflict because nothing's deeply has changed. apart from more man dying on both sides, particularly i'm doing great inside and this it but, but the thing is that they still think that this is a safe game that they can walk this from the distance. whereas russia has repeatedly said that, for instance, if an f 16 plane flies from an 8 to country that the, the, the airfield will be bumped for started at the same time. what we hear occurred from soon, ok from a thrown is that the ukraine should even provide that ukraine should be able to bomb ross or proper territory, right. with the weapons provide. i mean, this is ridiculous. it i and, and i don't really see what is their point. do me, baby, they are some kind of a, i don't know if that, that it causes that once the destruction of the world, because i come find

a normal, rational, a solution with, with the, let me, let me, let me propose this to you is something i've been pondering, okay. you in the west, in nato land, they have the vaunted article 5. that's like they're, they're, they're a secret sauce that's, they're, they're, they're a great already. you know, that's their shields, you know, and they go on and on and on about it because you brought it up, you know, what, let's say there's an air, a nato air field in romania and poland. okay? and f sixteens take off their it's unclear what their, what kind of an munition they have here is a new killer tipped. we don't know, okay, there, i'm certainly not going to communicate that. but then and then on the other side, is there any other issues as like well i mean article five's important to you but i okay. well who we to say otherwise but those planes in poland and romania they are killing our people. i mean, you can talk about your article 5 all you want, but you know, we have, we have the right to self defense as well. and that is something that, you know, i don't know, stephen, this is what makes it so dangerous. but they really,

they think they can bluff the russians. do think that they, they, they feel that, you know, after everything that's been said and done, absolute failure every step of the way of their calculation of this conflict here. they think they're going to bluff their way to victory stephen, i think they, they will try to and they've been trying to block their weight because they have this race is just the assumption that russians somehow will see the white gauze in, in the west and out of courtesy it won't respond. i think that there is a bit strange, a psychological game going over here. and actually jeffrey sachs, you just mentioned back a call. so because you had a really remarkable interview, a disaster. and he said that he said that they think that they will block their weight, but they don't get it. they don't get that. russia is a completely different society. they don't guess that they have actually awake. and i would say that they're both afraid of the drops. i have the they have a really,

um, a way could it's indian, you know, even even many ways and that the old mind games, the old tricks, are never going to work. and these are the old colonial tricks. and the thing is that we're in a problem because these people, they live in a completely separate reality that as if they're compared autistic, that's the main problem. and the end, the main problem is that, you know, roughly sending the message, but i guess it is sending the message to 90 percent of the world actually that is listening to it. uh so that everybody knows what's going on. uh, we have a, the basic, i'd say they've made the, is a collective going to take that cold it citizens as hostages. and then the rest of the world is going to because what they can pro big and promote damage. but they will never a certain global power, like this was in the,

in the ninety's. and that is the, that is the whole issue that we are facing now. you know, you know, do you may be a, always just reading some poll numbers. russians are afraid of the possibility of a 3rd world war, which would be obviously a new killer war. i don't see the same people asking um the hostages of stephen calls them in western europe the same question. but we do know with, you know, and i don't want to, you know, but the read too much into election resulted in the european union because, you know, there's so many other and there's immigration going on, there's problems with the inflate. there's a lot of problems. okay. but there's also the issue of being very aggressive when it comes to russia talking about conscription. i thought of, i don't know any of your bands. i want to join the army and fight russians in ukraine. i think that's delusion over here. but i mean, russian is take this very seriously and stephen's right, this country it and maybe you agree or disagree with me deem it, but it's changed in the last 2 and a half years. personally,

i think for the better team a well, your right the congress changed and the entity for the world change. i agree with steve, you know, of the absence of the peace movement in europe is starting and always knew these people do believe that these have sold the cargo called but i'm not going to shipped uh, you know, the white boards. uh well, you're right. you said that you sell them to these out for like a one your boss. do you in japan? where's the one who also get your best be she in china and career? you may do so. it is like a colonial power. like a typical westdale colonial power, you know, subjugated people, uh, cheating them. it was history deputies themselves noted. but the point is that uh, everything is dial in such a way that there would be no weight. but i mean, like, uh, just both of birth, the general check. your major was saying,

natal covers are obliged to buy f 35 spy to get and make them capable of getting you the weapons. what other means, it means that f sixteens, which will be replaced by f 35, can be given to great. so we make sure there will be a disaster. there will be no wait back door, a large the pro plans. yeah, i don't know. do you by mean steven, of 35, not a military expert, but i, i know it f 35 is a better, more modern plane in the f. 16 f sixteens. i came into service when i was in high school, everyone. and that was on time, and that was a long time ago. hey, hang on, do you mind i, you know, these are about 35 stephen. they'll burn like any other western nato plane. okay. and i and i, and i think that's one of the hesitations. you know, they, they, the united states, you know, doesn't export many interesting things anymore outside of arms and watch those burning over this guy. so the crane, i don't think so. i think it's again, a lot of a blustering bluff. go ahead. oh yeah, they will be the big ball,

the fire as jerry lewis, the one suspect about it. but the problem is you just mentioned the, the, the european elections. what i see is the back to fussy ization of europe. so instead of getting, let's say, solve ernest parties who have because we used to have a completely different attitude towards russia. what we see is melanie's ation the process of it, or what georgia bologna initially did. because at the beginning she was, you could even argue that she was pro russian in a sense. and now she's a champion of, of nato. she went to kia, giving supports, constantly and so on. so at the same time, it seems that the americans are living, do you know, the kind of elusive, whatever it started a new crane, but now expanding to europe. yeah, but instead of these, uh, barbies a being a guest fade so and actually afford deliberation of european countries from the

doctor for washington's occupation. what is happening is there a, they're letting them have the same ideology, but with the different content related to say, is like a genetically modified by system that they gain or function. dana function, the national weather, whether europeans rectified the war, maybe not at this point, but i think that's what the, what the americans want is not the americans, the military industrial complex. not even like what i would say. but really the, the, the, the, the industry they want to do to, you know, uh, fashion size, europe, to brutalize europe. so that it can and get the words you know, that the point is here. it's really interesting is what are you listening to these failing european leaders and just about everybody, every single one of them was crushed out electronically and the last election here but deem it it's, it's very interesting. you know stilton berg is, you know,

he's general uh, secretary of nato. i mean, it basically formerly a bureaucratic job, but now he's talking a like a bunch of land. i mean, he's like somebody of, of power. he's never been elected by anyone in the european union and that by nato countries. ok. but what, what is being pushed right now? because neo liberalism is utterly failing all across the western world is you need a war economy. they say the russians are on the war, a couple of no rush, it is a not a war economy, but they want to do that. it crushes dissent. it picks political and financial winners. okay. and, and what do you can do is you can start a closing down any kind of open discussion about what policies should be, you know, cobra, it was kind of an interesting prototype of this. go ahead demo as well. and i will say something that will make a lot of west the end. the no, but i think we have to say, uh, you know, no one played a bigger role in rehabilitation of style in russia than the west of governments

which are invalid. now, you know, spot in goals, governments, social democrats, social, fascist, i'm saying because they also stop with on the paper and, and it was a mistake. but when i looked at the social democrats today, you know, these people who signed the weapons to do with the key or the g. uh, who will say absolutely awful things about russia and china by the way. these are social effects and implant what type of now s g was absolutely right. we have and you edit you to sophie fascist bodies in your instead of fighting them, i am turned over to get to understand the amount of time with them just do it with the system. i run out of time, but i'm going to have a compromise with both what you just said. it's called the crating is ation of the west. that's what we're saying. gentlemen. i want to thank my guest in belgrade and here in moscow. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here to our dc and next time remember,

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