the, the, the swiss hosted ukraine peace conference was an abject failure. it failed because the issue of peace was not on the agenda. they did everything they could to escalate and prolonged the conflict seen while moscow has its own plans to see it in to the 5 the money into the, to attempt to collect at the exit amount. apache sat there for the show event. it will here job to left for the cause of a dish. uh excuse us is the complex to supplement the setup button and not to printer and i thought someone did you lose? it asked who i said. if i said the media, i loved people,

there's only 2 reasons. could you say was this if, if you need a vendor, each of us can be presented as for the money order work, you're done statements, the industry, is it or what's money? proof of concept really left. so should william farmer shops might give us who we have good cash door to door or decision they might not have it. what was that man was the ones that ridiculous friends, the best of them with one today and but the concept most of that for them is that something that i'm showing total suspect pretty sure can was i'm patient did it for she's kimball's, i'm best do what i mean there's a push out the, [000:00:00;00]

the, the hello and welcome to cross ok. we're all things are considered. i'm peter will about this with hosting ukraine. peace conference was an object failure. it failed because the issue of peace was not on the agenda. they did everything they could to escalate and prolong the complex. meanwhile, moscow has its own plans to cnn, to the fight, the cro sucking ukraine. i'm joined by my guest, make a live petro in kingston. he's a professor of political science at the university of rhode island in brussels. we have look relay. he is an independent journalist and in bows. when we cross the andre, do you wish and coke? he is a farmer, ukrainian diplomat. quite gentleman cross that goes in effect, that means you can jump any time you want, and i always appreciate nichol. i let me go to you 1st here because we have had a, a lot of events happening very, very quickly. let's take

a look at the end of last week when we had a president put in a dressing, rushes diplomats, and sending very clearly messages about how and negotiated and to this conflict could start at least the beginning of negotiations. we up to par, sat there, and then of course we have the media coverage of the swiss, a so called piece initiative by ukraine. and i think, you know, when i look at, i look at that all bits and in its entirety, it's the tower t. we had russia and yeah, and i can see how they do that with the you clayton's would disagree with what to put in there to say, but it least was a starting point. what we got over the weekend was no starting point at all. it was just more of a propaganda effort to put along the, the conflict and to give the appearance. but it had some kind of global consensus. so your thoughts over the last week or so go ahead and i think you're

right to call the designation of piece so mad into question. because again, how can you have a piece negotiation without want the major people involved in the conflict of so what it turns out to be is essentially a grouping to put a pressure on russia. and that is uh, in that, in that sense that it really didn't move the process forward any and, and then came pushing this talk to the international diplomats. and i think it'd be fair. but someone eclipsed this with summit because at the end of the russian as a result of what we can said, a 3 things happened to move the piece process forward. if that is the desired object to a piece of the desired objective rather than victory. right?

so one is both and clearly simplified the negotiating process. we went down from ukraine's 10 points to food use one point. and there is only one voice that became mandatory. that is an official statement that ukraine does not intend to join nato . the 2nd thing that is, initiative accomplished is to offer something that ukraine is not offering, and that is to end the blood shed now. and that is done simply by withdrawing the troops separating the troops. and i would highlight something that hasn't been typically highlighted that there are in butch's proposal, no initial concessions required is simply to get to the negotiating table. let's withdraw the troops stop the blood shed. we do, however, want this commitment on good faith to not to join nato. and i guess the 3rd

point, which is more of a public relations of cool, i would say for a bulletin is that he proposed by his proposal rather put the lie to the frequent western statements that rush it in. tends to conquer all of ukraine and from there, move on into europe. because in effect, russia has defined explicitly and its territorial objectives before occupied territories, which are the 4 occupied territories. well it, it's interesting locates a, uh, you know, and watching the coverage of the so called peace conference. it's a shelf life has been remarkably short. i mean, for the reasons as a nichol. i just presented to us because there's a fuller picture out there. and you know, i see it with every passing day. well another country takes their name off of the the, the communicate at the end of the conference here. and even you have the me, you create him for administer, say,

basically maybe next time we should invite the russians. i mean, the whole thing turned out to be a complete waste of time and it didn't help ukraine. you're good. oh, i don't see how would move the needle for ukraine whatsoever. so it was a real bus that way. and i agree with nikolai. i mean, if you look at the broader picture here, there is something to start negotiating. but the, it's not coming from the ukrainian slash nato side. go ahead. look, i found, i think, as you say that it's the beginning of the end for you brain on this cultural shows clearly that the support is dwindling on long b supposed partners. i mean my toll our eyes later, the summit and the left early bite. indeed, they even gone, etc, etc. at the same time on of there's an ascii one to the point of stock in berlin and to the esl bringing us to evaluate that is and there, there was nobody to listen to the whole family if you, the last and the right or totally absent. and the center, my goodness center, for example,

with very scarce of all that it was some for any scares bolton's and don't that crate in. and of course the prince did not accept the branding of the conclusion something lensky. so what was the purpose of this thing? if it doesn't work, mr. savanski, you know, andre, one of the thing, you know, i look at a lot of commentary and to be honest with you commentary that i tend to agree with . okay. so it, but they talk about the beginning of the end of ukraine. i don't want to see the end of ukraine at all. i want to see the end of this senseless war. and so what does it take, and i've always wanted to ask you, you are you cleaning and diplomat, you know, they, they use the phrase that you, ukraine, is a victim. but if you look at zalinski and the people that as he is surrounded and so they volunteered for this, why do they have the right to keep volunteering, young, ukrainian men to go into a meat grinder and today? sure, you're totally correct. there's a nice to came into this,

but when he became ready for president, i was on a piece deal, but he's going to make peace with the devil himself. there was a plan. i worked for july 16 while he was also president 6. there was a fine for the last 2 to come to don't boss and make a speech 2 weeks later after this migration was up to the people that don't boss together with the russian federation. knowledge that these are you bringing people and we should get the minister courts on track. it was grant inside that house piece, any grain and kind of autonomy for the eastern part of the crating and have you bring back together without the civil war. but all when a parent, when it's when basically your arms do, you went under those article section really and, and in the west. and the agreed to this for his, me to this for 2 years before the war even started. she was prepared for this war, monday was so everything was be prepared. the most report from the side. we remember that process when the russian negotiated this whole issue to both peace, ford and i as

a premium. i spoke about peace for years and years before even this war was happening. while there was civil war 8 on boss. nobody listen. we had the position channels pro that spoke about peace. we had people who spoke about peace putting on to the list. so we to kill you crazy. this is what was the last you are seeing. any crane government went into today, i believe was the graham. so those are the, is not all different president on the article one or 3 isn't their lower general government spray. and until this time, with the early brain needs to change, if you green wants, peace, doesn't need to go for that matter. well, the warmongers in washington in london, it needs to do research, but it's on have a sovereign decision. let's say look, 1st of all as to, for example, what his regime, we will wait, we will, sorry, been 3 months we're moving away. we're having, you don't really pray and have the premiums decide what they want. we're going to want a piece government or a war and government. i believe you. the grands on the ground. well, what would work for peace guys were more and more you trainers today are looking

for a peace deal with russia. they understand that there's no way out putting in a really as losing loss. so before leaving the work together, i mean exactly neighborhood is a date and they made it was determined on the 1st day, nikolai, i mean, looking again at um, putting in speech to the diplomatic community, which gets so little coverage in the west. they do. it's really, it's really appalling considering the stakes and i don't see, i don't see any more real patients. this are changing patients that we've seen over the last 2 and a half years. and i think the, the russian authorities know that there, there is no good faith in the west. this conference proved it, and that they may start pushing a lot harder. and again, we're given the environment, the or nato is say, is going to have half a 1000000 men, then it'll be around more radiating and we're talking about activating new killer, a strategies and all about this is get to get very ugly,

very quickly. i'm very worried about that nikolai. well, the diplomacy involves a lot of pastry and then the pastoring is exaggerated by the media. you know, there's an old uh, austria insane with that. um, how do war start? politicians lie to journalists right then, believe what they read in the newspapers back. that was gotten so much worse now with the internet. it's literally impossible to know what is true and what is not because respectable figure or people that we are told they are informed and respectable. so absolutely contradictory things. so that leaves me as an observer to suspect that if anything is going to happen is going to happen outside of the public eye. and here we can simply speculate. i

do think it is likely that there are all sorts of private contacts between ukrainian military officials and russian military officials. you know, of course, to work out the details about the present or exchanges and things like that. but, you know, discussion, go on. one thing leads to another, they try to feel each other out. so there's all sorts of the discussions among the diplomatic community, some of which gets leak to the proud. yeah. but nickel, really quite, i agree with you, but we're rapidly rapidly company in the break, but do they have enough agency to make decisions? i guess, you know, this seems like, you know, this is mia grey and project run out of london, brussels and washington. they do if they want to. and what is interesting about the recent spate of re arrested firings of senior political

officials in queue is that some people in the west are interpreting that as a way for the landscape to try to give himself a little more maneuverability by all right. all right, hold that thought nikolai, because that's fascinating. we have to go to a hard break gentlemen, and after that hard break will continue our discussion on ukraine. stay with our team, the the, what is a part of the, the employee would post good. isn't the defense you of us and bidding the word part? is it something deeper, more complex might be present? good. let's stop without kasia is less competitive as

a when i went to the wrong just on the safe house to come to the after care and engagement trails. when so many find themselves worlds of parts, we choose to look for common ground the the welcome at the prospect were all things are considered. i'm peter isabel, to remind you were discussing. you create the look um, uh, over the weekend we, we had a foreign minister loved or off a speaking to the media and he did it this time in english. and, and he brought up, you know, i'm paraphrasing here,

how this is an a lead project in the west this ukraine project. and what about the democratic processes in, in europe, in the united states? i mean, is you, well now you've been where europe and elections here and um, the issue of ukraine. if it was mentioned at all, it was not a vote getter. it was a vote loser. we have uh the governments of france and germany and a tail spin because of the election outcome. even though the u. k is no longer part of the european union. they're having to pay the cost as well for their, um, um, interest uh over the ukraine over their own people. how does this play into it? we have this car, sickle peace conference, and we have, you know, europe in result you in results. go ahead, look. the problem for the moments in europe. is that every party on the last or people, right? especially on the right, that substances don't rush out the whole day at the same future as russia for many

options, all, all the ceasefire. they keep silent because down afraid of the, the global moved into west. and we all bombarded by a trice, which is really supporting you train permanently and full length to pull the patients involved, calling the elite law supporting the government of savanski. they cannot turn back any more. and so of the people were really wearing apples and ukraine was not really a topic during the european directions, not much. everybody tried to avoid, you know, and to tip toe out of the room. if anybody talked about training, what is the thing sure for the coming months and years is the fact that it's probably the replacement all reduce that bought it out of the high representative of europe for, for on the phase will be replaced by kaiser. come to us the strong and prime and i stuck. oh,

great on the washer. you will still not. i am for you. right. wonderful. the is the danger you know this woman good create bring it will have of india. they've been commission with her if you, well, i mean, of course, you know, you, they, they talk a lot about ukraine, but it doesn't really help you create andre, who, you know, way as this conflict goes forward here. how much do people in ukraine have an input in this here? because i am very cynical about this whole project because i can, i think, any realistic person thinking realistically that this conflict is going to end this lot, gonna end in ukraine saver. but those in you, in care of and they love a power is and then have power. they just want to keep this going. i mean, it's very profitable for them. i mean, how many of the already have homes in miami and, and tell of the even bank accounts, you know, i'm not, i, i think my cynicism is warranted because that is one reason to keep the complet going. of course, joe biden doesn't want to admit it. was a mistake,

but joseph burrell doesn't want to admit it was a mistake. nobody in the european union empower, wants to admit this. so it's kind of a nurse. so going on, the money just keeps flowing fund today. yeah, we use it for these people, our whole owns the last is owned by the washington london. wash in london is owned by the most investor complex. and with each state, there's no solver and leave there. and all these problems, even the, all the g 7, and if you need to rapidly, all those meters are all controls. when washington are wondering to the only solver meter, now this is the frame is to the, was talking about peace from his own perspective. and you, craig, and the situation is somebody out of the perspective of washington. unfortunately, i just have to say there's no sovereignty brain. there's oh, no independence after the dual sporty she pray and told her was like she was holding onto power a for as long as possible cuz he understands there's going to be a change in might be a change soon because of functions of the people in which you have any brain or

grow, they are basically the government that you're not talking about a public at their site. but the he, the government, the move terminates the government. so the west will make a change between what tenants they don't really you pray for one of their homes for the portion you go to the emitter and see if there's an existing business. what we're gonna look forward to. so low and tensions of the people are we trained so they will come with pitchforks on their home or try to top of the government issues as something somebody independent. the was the need this to happen at all. and that's what people are looking forward to. now looking forward to a leader who to they can trust to make a piece for them or to get out of this for in the best one relationship where you crane as possible. i can tell you that the promoter score and the brain spastic is presented with different labs that all of the state abroad. nobody came back to the print, 60 percent of the matter form the rates as lost. the diplomacy, cordova is taking all these people lakes is not even asking them to come back because they are not looking for the policy. well,

they're looking for what we have, what's more, because that's what the west wants them to be, because that's my how the state and power. nobody's thinking about the cleaning and on the ground, they're just pushing them to, to the blood shed and to the graveyard. that's more than 700000. the prayer of them died for 400 major job this process. you know, nikolai, what do i worry about? i already made reference to it, but you know, we had this uh, quote unquote peace conference. they didn't result in much. i mean, even even look at the find them you can, can you communicate was really watered down. it really didn't address the is a lensky piece proposal. but there is no willingness on the part of the west to, to relent here. there, they won't even go. and go into negotiations when they, with the russian government repeatedly say, you know, well, you know, make my day to test out. so, you know, we want to negotiate, they won't even negotiate here. what, what's all the alternative is, is just to escalate and i, i, i'm, i'm very,

very worried that we're going to continue up the escalation lighter than you know, what rush it keeps following them up. that's no problem with the escalation. um, i have had some very so real conversations with american diplomats supporting ukraine. they are now retired. but um, is the impression that i get from talking to them is a certain calm about the prospect of putting going beyond a certain level of threat. or they don't think any nuclear weapons or, or any serious incursion into nato is at all likely. although there's no, no, no, no nichol, i, i have to stop you there and you know, serious. and so what's a less than serious meaning what? well, i mean for, and, for example, they've gone to the 60 ins. everyone's talk all about, well,

they're not going to ukraine is lock at a station. those uh, the that aircraft inside of ukraine. okay. number one, the maintenance is, is enormous. the, the runways are very sophisticated. these planes need to be for a landing, you know, on uh, basically an ice skating rink. it has to be really, really flat. so they're gonna say should have been romania and poland. why would russia refrain from destroying those airfields? because of a reluctance of russia to escalate the matter which turns basically the give the initiative over to nato. i think what we're likely to see is a number of air skirmishes over ukraine. and if those should, for some reason not go well for russia, then i think of the military options expand. but i suspect that at least

initially russia expects to do well in these conflicts. and again, we have historical precedent. we have a fighter jets from russia in the north korean war and china and in vietnam. so again, there is historical precedent and we don't need to expect always the worst standard real i visited really i, i find it really astounding. i mean, i think you should, to, is it, there, there is, there is a hypothetical. well, we might get into error skirmishes. we, you know, with that leads that goes to greater escalation. i mean, nobody says, oh, we won't. if you use plain sir that wasn't a good nobody know we have to be more planes and we have to escalate even more. the problem is the past that we're on right now, and they, there's only one track. it's the award track in the west right now. what we need use to activate a diplomacy track, but the forces in the west,

the political forces are not strong enough to do so. and therefore, probably the, the global south west bank is, it's now called needs to become much more insistent on promoting diplomacy as a solution. but well, look, i mean, how many young men in the european union want to put on a uniform and go fight in the ukraine? i think i would say nobody, i would say nobody to, to add the baltics. probably you would find people in poland. the politics to believe what walks on nature of the same, but for the rest, young men don't long to go to war on the ukrainian issue. absolutely not nowhere from spring to, to august. sweet and all spring not even fed up. nobody lost the of the war with the, with russia that's been the feeling soft and people really, you know, and be for the golf months. when they say, for example, belcher man, i'm in brussels now, you belts, and they said, we gotta give o r f. 16,

they wouldn't give to by the end of this year, and the rest clinical probably closer to 2028, one by then the conflict, but be furnished, of course, and they know it. so they just put the brake on the whole issue. they tried to find some money to send the grain to pay it full. they're all right, and on the side liquid glue, rapidly running out of time. and then when they get the last minute of the program to um that i go ahead. andre, here today we have to talk about witnessing the war and i agree with everybody here . there has to be the west has to make a call. it has to be a call from the white house, from the, by the ministration from originally solves to food. and you say, well, let's start to go cheap. and then this is the cost of putting on the train. uninstalled will not be able to the euro has other, in the ability to do this, only watch them the ones who started this warranty owing this for free, free to enter the software by calling to do an image. but here's what i'll do that because the electrons are coming to somebody will do this before you actually, he's done,

it's over for him. so they're going to wake out with children elections then good morning training and rush lives into the ground. you know, you know, that's, that, i think what it's a really important to remember, it gives people, you know, we've had disobey ukraine's going to the west ukraine saying, and the he's ukraine is right where it is. and it isn't going anywhere. and we should save that country and as many people as possible, that should be an end, the war. pursue peace or a gentleman that's all the time we have on a think, my guessing kingston basil and in brussels. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r t c. and next time and remember across doubles the the, the

russian states. never as one of the most sense community best. most all sense set up the same assistance must be the one else calls question about this, even though we will then in the european union, the kremlin machine. the state on the rush has proved, inc, and split the ortiz footnote keeping our video agency roughly all the band on youtube, the fitness center. for what question did you say stephen twist,

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