spade reyes. at the end of august 1922, the third's army won a decisive victory over the invaders in the battle of doom. libby not and within a month liberated all asia minor from them. the impressive success of the 3rd case, the army, force the west, to make concessions in 1923. the loss on these treaty was signed turkey. one of the 1st countries in asia manage to defeat the colonial empires and defend its independence. becoming an example for millions of via press on the planet the many years ago i took a trip to northern argentina where i stayed in the hotel that had a view just over the father and river into both brazil and part of why i thought correctly as it turned out that this would probably be the only time in my life

when i could go to products. why? even if it was just for a day. so i paid a taxi driver to drive. we didn't even slow down when coming to the border. we just blew across it, but the sleeping board, a guard didn't seem to mind much. i don't remember very much about where i went that day in. so you got the state part of why. what i do remember is seeing what was more or less a parade of electronic equipment being smuggled into present. it was both raising and obvious. the question though was why, when i got back to my job at c, i a headquarters i mentioned what i'd seen to a colleague, he left and he said, that's how hezbollah makes its money. there's a huge lebanese community and through the state, they smuggle electronics to brazil, and then they send the prophets to his butler. it had never even occurred to me. i'm john kerry onto welcome to the whistle blowers the

. 2 2 2 2 2 2 the most in the media, in the think tanks and even in hollywood, focus on terrorist operations on capabilities and on strategy. where will the next attack be? how many rockets does a terrorist group have? can they build bonds where their cells located? can they get on to an airplane? not much thought that was normally given to something that is at least as important and that is terrorist financing. i'm not talking about the work of treasury, department, or finance, ministry, bureaucrats and accountants planning future sanctions. i'm talking about how terrorist groups around the world pay for their weapons, explosives, ammunition, training, housing, even their travel. i'm talking about how they raise and transfer money. money is the life blood of terrorist groups. it's money that allows them to launch everything from a tax to propaganda campaigns. the conventional wisdom is that in today's world,

it's extremely difficult to launder money or to pay cash for anything of any real value without it coming to the attention of a government. but it happens, it happens every single day assigned to been loaded, managed to assemble an entire army, mostly under the radar. has bella is one of the best financed and best armed to terrorist groups in the world. how does that happen? it takes a special person to develop expertise in terrorist financing. it takes the person who is not afraid to confront the details, and it takes the person who will be committed to the issue over the long haul. we are very fortunate to have that expert with us today. loretta napoli only holds a master's degree in philosophy and a master's degree in terrorism, studies from the london school of economics. she also has a ph. d. in the field. she was a full, bright scholar at the johns hopkins university school of advanced international studies in washington, dc. following career in banking,

loretta went into journalism, publishing her work in newspapers, all across europe. as she's now chairperson of the globe. they met the need. that's a group studying terrorist financing. she's the author of 11 books on the subject, including her latest called pet no capitalism, loretta and a pull a on a thank you so much for joining us. what thank you for inviting me, loretta. you have devoted much of your adult life to finding and to countering money laundering and terrorist financing. you've advised governments and heads of state from around the world. you've written about the subject and you've appeared on virtually every important news network in the world. can you explain to us why the measures that have been taken by world leaders and their governments have not been enough to stop terrorist financing? but i would say that the 1st reason is that this major a change from country to country. i mean, tell her is my, is a global phenomenon. in fact,

i think is one of the most globalized illegal activity is there was seen the st sooner, the 4 of the berlin wall and the policy that being put in play to come to tatters, financing, and also to mitigate terrorist and the impacts of terrace activity. or even to eradicate terrorism, of not being put in place everywhere or in the same way or with the same intensity . so there is um, an approach the global approach, which is not as strong as it does require. so this is the 1st, the reason the other reason is that you know, 10 or is, is very much, you know, parts all of our life, them as being with us. so right from the beginning and tell her it is believed that their freedom, pfizer says what they want to change existing regina. so they work

together with clement organization and cleaning organization of the deep, a deep rooted in the any society. so it is a problem that i'm afraid we will never solve completely. now we can meet the gauge so we can reduce the impact, but dreaming of a solution to terrorism. i'm afraid that it's a dream that will never come to how much of an actual problem is this on a global scale, with the post $911.00 changes in place in the international finance? is it possible for terrorist groups to finance their operations on a grand scale to okay, so $911.00 was then i would say it was one alpha. meaning that was an event that took place at certain point in history because of

a series of circumstances. so if you think about that, the hijackers were funded with trans federal money taking place to norma. back to norma banking got channels. so they, they obtained a visa to enter the united states. most of them not to saudi arabia on is the, the procedure right now, all of that to, to place at the time in which nobody could have predicted or would have expected. and events like that. not to take place that think about getting on a plane without being checked. i mean, this is impossible. it's never going to happen again. but that doesn't mean that terrorism that's not pose at the same kind of threat that's needed with 911. i mean the look what, what happened with the 7 of october at the top by

a months in israel. i mean did retaliation know from israel is very similar to what the united states as done after 911. now that is so generally what the slates uh people support therapy with the support the people that sympathize with certain codes. so we will see the consequences in the years to come. so from that point of view, i would say that is still possible to create the same kind of that care. so at global level, or at least at international level. and also does possible through these kind of event exceptional if and just to convince people to join in the fight. because the illusion that these kind of attacks project is that it

is possible to achieve the goal of terrorism. and so in the case of a kind, i swear, all know, was the distraction of the united states that as an economic superpower. so the top 2 towards of the far away enemy in order to stop the far away enemy from financing and supporting. and then your enemy, which way you know, the corrupted regina of the various countries from where, you know, the members of archive that's came from to the same think we can then say, hey, could up. and now after you know, of tober, the 7 know course it is an illusion because no. right now we don't have any prove that the in history, these kind of event of really change an existing regina. so unless of quotes that followed by an uprising, which is a public uprising?

no, we have not seen this happening in the our award after 9 who have been, who are now going to see that happening in the rewards after october 7. but never the less, you know, there is this idea is this new job now. and that is what we should really be concentrating on if we want really to meet you gauge and also to reduce the power of errors. again, it's ations. i read recently that virtually the only way left to launder money on a large scale is through the purchase of real estate, fine art and resources. i don't fully understand that. can you explain? well, yes, of course, that's what we've seen a many cases in recent years. so people buying uh, for example of property in the, in spain, the, in the south in the, on the,

on the beach is around your shore. so of spain, portugal. 2 also, you know, the 1000 lead to lead and the use these kind of activity to load their money. now you, you may ask, how is this possible? because i mean, you can, people are actually, you know, carry suitcases and therefore cash and some of the accept them. well actually yes. i mean most of the money laundering them, they staking place today as it was in the past. by the way, it was in the past takes place and in cash and takes place with bach shipment that because you know, we're talking about large amount of money. i mean i, i gave you an example. i actually came across a situation like this in june. tina is a people in the united states want to buy property in one of cyrus because you know,

they want to have a place to go during the summer months. so or, you know, whatever, you know, but they can't really bring the money in so easily, you know that then to take them out because there are no one entire section. so what did they do? they arrange for people that they know to do the exchange. so let's say, you know, you are in a resident of the cyrus, you are a professional and you want to send your children to school in the united states and you have to pay the fees in us dollars. so instead of doing the transfer of money, which of course it will be tax and also regulated, at least you know, until recently, where you do is you, you get into an arrangement with somebody in the united states. and you will provide the money in the website is to buy an apartment uh for

this person and the next change, this person will pay the fees. all your children are going to university know this is a very, very, i would say, middle class level, any happens all the time. now, do people know that by doing that they may get involved with money laundering? got me. i think you lots of people don't, but this is, this is very, very easy way to overcome restriction the on both side. so through this kind of connection. so yeah, i'll do you stop something like that. you see in order to stop something like that, where you need is to educate people, to teach them that by doing that, by behaving in this way. that actually, you know, breaking the role. but also they are supporting got any legal

activity. this is just one of the many example, and then of course, you also have, you know, the, are towards the same to be, it can be applied to the art ward you, you, if you are buying something good, which is very expensive. if you're buying a castle or you know, in a row, that's going to be very difficult. but if you buy, let's say in middle to lower side, ok this uh, which is not very well. no, no, it is in you. it doesn't require a lot of money then. yes, you, you can easily do something like that and it is a, well, i'll do the law under millions, millions, hundreds of millions. by doing that, it just repeat the same old variation over and over again. and or there's plenty of

people who are willing to get into this kind of activity to loretta and apply on it internationally recognized expert on terrorist financing. thank you for speaking with us, but don't go away. we're going to take a short break. and when we come back, we'll continue our conversation and ask her about the methods by which terrace are prevented from financing and how they must constantly change. stay tuned. 2 2 2 job items, whitehouse continues to insist it as little as branch over the israeli government to bring the whole to the fighting and goes on more or less. this is obviously an absurd claim. at the same time, it appears the u. s. has resigned to a wider conflict that includes 11 on and beyond known in vietnam as the american war, the vietnam war lost it for almost 2 decades and dragged in numerous countries.

not any terms with nouns, but then you can just say now why did all i'm empty. hundreds of thousands of american troops who was sent to the country to bag the south vietnamese on a boat that not but american soldiers. miller did resist as most of the snake burned down entire villages and spread dangerous chemicals. and lee. by all right, did the americans ever fully acknowledge what they did on the vietnamese veterans ready to forgive you? yes, that's the way to the

welcome back to the list of letters. i'm john here. yahoo! were speaking with author, journalist and terrorist financing expert loretta nipple. a on a. loretta thanks again for being with us. thank you. loretta. i spent 15 years in the c. i a working on counterterrorism, followed by 2 years as the chief investigator at the senate foreign relations committee. i remember very well how complicated tracking terrorist money was. and i remember how so many big important international banks found themselves involved. it was probably inadvertent, but there was also an element of bank leaders being blinded by greed. that's would cause them to look the other way for far too long. has this been your experience and if so has that changed? oh yes, absolutely. um uh s being uh my experience also um things have changed. um see,

i would say significantly after 911 because of the banking regulation. it is not as easy as it was in the past, but this is still take place. i'm afraid. yes. this is an element because as come into the equation and recent to you and this is creep to conferences. so now i, a beast calling is very much a core and say that is tracked every single step. now initially, bitcoin was use the bi claim and organization on the dock and that it was also used for money laundering. but that as stopped because now it is clear that you can track of every single step of the beads calling the bulk chain. and eventually, when you go and exchange the beat, the beat calling for in real money,

which can be any quarter and says, this is when the mechanism out of the investigation actually can block you. we have several cases was seen in recent here where, you know, people where long getting billions and there was a hand discover that actually was the f b i that they did the 1st major but break through with big coins. but these calling is just one of the many, many, many, crypt accordance is some some of these crypt mclawrence is like monopoly money. uh huh. just being created out of, you know, with the success of, of search or organization which of pulled up, you know, web page is or that they sell service and kind of services on the internet. so through that kind of a crypto car and see if it is possible to long throwing their money because

there is no control because you know, there is no, it's impossible to patrol every single transaction without the the block chain which includes this typical only of the beads calling them now the banking system, a dozen deal openly in bates calling audio. now beach cooling is part of the financial industry, let's say in the, in the united states. so technically speaking, you could to beach can still do this kind of activity, although, you know, it's, i don't think i haven't seen it anyway. i mean, claiming organization i'm not relying on on beach call in. and then you know that there are many other ways um, there is a formal banking system for example, known as a, sorry only there while

a but also the informal banking system which is use in, in china. i mean, the chinese do land each other money to a new form of banking system. and often the system is based upon in a large family. so if you really want to money loaned me to uh channels which are either the banking and the system, the, or you know, the informa banking system. you can still do it. but you have to be more careful than you are before. i actually wanted to ask you about that. specifically, i did an investigation more than a decade ago for john kerry when he was the chairman of the senate foreign relations committee. i went to the middle east and i was able to transfer just as a test, $50.00 to myself, through something called while i went to a small shop in abu dhabi. i gave him in $50.00. he gave me

a very long number by which to later claim the money. and when i got home to washington, i went to an arrow bakery. i gave the man there my number and i got my $50.00 back . this was very small stakes, of course, but are these while as used to finance terrorist groups and if so, what can be done to regulate them? of course there is there was issues for terrace finance and i mean it's not. so we just know the deal wallace system is controlled by terrace organization. i'm sorry, not, but the wallet system is so you, jack and it's all over toward is, you know, it's a super global system or is, um, is actually very cheap in comparison to other systems. so transfer like, you know, west and you know, for example, ice very quick. you can do, i mean, you,

you must have experienced that. so it's, um, it's also link to the goal. and so the, the reserves of their while a, are actually in goal to see it. so you can even transfer that goal instead of you know, transferring money, if it is possible to do that to. and that's, it may be actually a good way to avoid the controls because, i mean golda is yes, this tangible but it's difficult to face it. so, um there, while i was there, the advantage of the wireless is that it goes everywhere so, so you can find it in a while, a door to somebody that can transfer the money and gave you the money everywhere in the ward. so, you know, you could, you can be up in the mountains, in pakistan and,

and use the water. you know, the, of the use of the wall, i would say in terms of the terrace financing is at micro level is the either small donations for example. so we're not seeing and saudi arabia, for example. i mean, anybody was phone sitting go armed or canyons. ation for inside. there is no going to use there while it's going to use either x to you either means a bulk shipment of cash being the most uh the most use and the preferable one. but a global level, the sympathizer, the people in the depths, well actually look at that group, but that arms organization that they believe that is fighting for the freedom of the region. no space. if i that the freedom of the region,

because most of the people that actually are sponsoring in the, in this way, people that have no idea what to tell who was good information is they really do believe that the group that they're funding, that is a group was finding that's not for the freedom of their own people. so these kind of individual all over towards, you know, use the walla to find the various organization as they use the wallet. also do fun . charge is they do a good job in, in that range. what's the next financing battlefield, loretta? do government still have to worry about the banks? can money still be transferred on a large scale and how much strategies change in order to keep up with the terrorist to? i think we're already in the, in the next show, the fields or the new frontier is actually cyber saturdays. well,

this is very little. is reported about not so many, many companies. so do not report that they have been hacked by organization that require payment to run some run. some is today around some of us. it is also a button, particularly i would say run some of the cyber attacks is one of the most important source of tanner is financing. and we know very little about that. so imagine a big organization in b corporation that gets hacked and they withdrawn somewhere and they ask for payment of a tool to 100000000 and stuff like that organization will pay as quickly as you possibly can. so that nobody would know that is being hacked because you know, if you, if the news that you're being hacked comes out to, then there's

a few taishan of this organization is going to be damage. and there is no way there is no way that you can protect and present yourself from these kind of back attacks. so hacking is the new frontier. and perhaps this is why we haven't seen a lot of financial activity for tatters financing canada. feels because the old takes place in the documents of the internet to loretta. that was absolutely brilliant. thank you so much for coming on the show. well, thank you john. know nature as all of us have been infected by terrorist and then one way or another, whether it's americans arriving for a normal day's work on the morning of september, 11th, 2001 russians gathering in the theater to listen to some music earlier this year.

or anybody else in any of the world's countries. terrorism, of course, can never be accepted, never under any circumstances. it's up to us to fight together with methods that do not compromise our respect for the rule of law and for human rights. that's why we owe such a debt of gratitude to people like loretta napoleonic. i know that i for 1 am indebted thanks for joining us for another episode, but with the blowers. i'm john carry onto please follow me on subsets at john kerry onto. we'll see you next time the. 2 the

look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings accept. we're so shorter to conflict with the 1st law show your mind, anticipation. we should be very careful about our personal intelligence at the point, obviously is to great trust, rather than fit the various things with artificial intelligence. with my name is damon, the robot must protect this phone. existence was alexis

the the hello and welcome across stock were all things are considered. i'm peter level job items. whitehouse continues to insist it has little leverage over the israeli government to bring a halt to the fighting and gaza or live in on. this is obviously an absurd claim at the same time, it appears to us has resigned to a wider conflict that includes webinar and beyond the .