[000:00:00;00] the the hello and welcome to cross like bullhorn sign peter a little here we discussed some real news, giving peace a chance and ukraine. why just taking this position in rage, members of the european union, also the u. k. labor party studying victory at the polls, or maybe it wasn't so stunning to discuss these issues and more. i'm joined by my guess george, send me while we in budapest, he is a pod cast where the goggle, which means on youtube and locals and, and mirror test we have martin j. hughes and award winning journalist and commentator. gentleman cross that goes in effect, that means you can jump anytime you want, and i always appreciate it. okay,

let's kick this off with george in budapest. um, the unspeakable apparently was done last week. the driver on the prime minister of you, of hungry, went and made a visit to co uh, gave his thoughts on what's going on. a new cray butler ukraine with the i don't know the interim or x or whatever. the title mr. zalinski has now and then he went in and visited moscow and that the european union, or many voices, almost identical voice is short circuited. you're not supposed to do that. you will have no right to do that. well, you're hungry is the president of the rotating presidency. but from what i can tell you, or ben went there as the prime minister of hungry and weighed in. and did he in a big way, george, your thoughts on the whole fiasco, at least from the western perspective. what do you think you're actually with the right the that it is quite extraordinary that we were living in this time when an

aspiration for peas. and this will be in the consistency name of or binds from the beginning from february 2022, which is this is the rule, but makes no sense. and in the to be brought to a land as swiftly as possible. so this the tend to them to act maybe as a mediator, maybe to facilitate some kinds of negotiation, some sort of a piece compress the this should arouse futile rate. that's the, basically this rate. i mean, it's all just simply saying, well, it isn't, you know, this, but with the time isn't quite right or whatever. it will be just in range then them so much. so that's from the german foreign minister on the you know, bad luck was scheduled to visit hunger a on monday as her visits has been cancelled hungry. a said we don't want to hit the middle, no major loss. so maybe like a wait and we don't want to listen to

a harangue from you because she made clear that she was going to be rate hunger easily. this and, and so now where we're coming in next week to this, a big need those 70 parents, the birthday party. and what's going to be said there is we are the usual belligerent. so we have to stick with ukraine. have to do more for you, brand. ukraine will be a member of nato, the same claptrap, but it's got the nato and the, and, and the, well nowhere but that, that's the program. so in any event, somebody who does that you're trying to do something they favor that there's a lot of that's just do everything that we've been doing before because it's been so successful. yeah, well i mean more than in the counter veiling trends that are going on here. we have this ridiculous far city in switzerland, the ukraine peace conference or whatever it was called a complete and fiasco we. then we have other bung going at the very least, the talk to both leaders. so it means that there's

a channel of communication. even that is up for and here in georgia is absolutely right. you know, with the upcoming nato concept 75th birthday and even things that are 75 years old, usually retire by then, but not nato. now, jo, i did so, and they're going to tell, you know, you claim a can join the alliance. so i mean one person, one adult in the room, stood up and said, how do we make sense of bliss and how can we move forward that gets them in a lot of trouble. martin, how do we make sense of it? um through dialogue and that's the very thing that a you claims that it likes to support the agrees to and very much encourages on the one condition that the dialogue is framed within the same. now to have, as his own idea is my deal is, you know, olden is broken rank. so i mean, normally 6 months, presidencies in brussels, you know, they are different money exercise. really. i mean, the country that has the presidency says with main meetings, whether is finance or this agricultural one about and the ministers are shipped. uh,

and they usually take advantage of that 6 month period to do some horse trading to sign a spotlight on some of the draw dropped directives which are being amended, which should be a meant to, to gina, to the needs and requirements. nothing like this is there a home before or been is really broken or rang, sees from the rule book um you know, out of the window and now is behaving really like a leader of a silver and country and put in his own country 1st. and to take this initiative, which he said is just told general is i think that no other country is in this position. you know, i'm probably the only one there. the hunger is in the country can do this. but to take the initiative to try and at least at least get a ceasefire, agreed and then see if we can move from the seas for to tools. you know that it should be in colorado, just a sensible thing to do. but um, nobody in the, in the war machine, you know, the corrupt westerly as long as this. and um, i have a feeling that he's gonna take advantage of the 6 month presidency. and do this on a weekly basis. i have

a feeling he's gonna really hijacked the entire you at least machine and for his own purposes. and we'll see where that goes. i mean, the night, so the say, patty, what do we want to call it? is already looking like a fiasco. yeah. um, because we have question marks, we have a with a bite and is gonna make it to um, to the it, to his own presidency. and now we got a new labor government in the u. k which, which is ordered a hopping on about not respecting the previous agreement of 2.5 percent g d, p for defense spending. that's going to be a real fly. and the only meant for, for nato lead is, what are they going to celebrate? so, you know, you know, but charge, i mean, again i, i, it's very few places. so this is one place that we talk about peace, how do we get to piece that that, that discourse is non existent. ok. and, and, and again, we had a president vladimir putin. he presented

a starting point for negotiations. it wasn't the end point is we can start from this position. we don't go, we need to go through all the points right now. well i, i'm just completely bewildered why nato slash edu slash by the administration and say, okay, we can, well, we'll pony up. this is where we want to start going. okay. they won't even do that . they just go back to this r k, a 10 point plan that apparently is zalinski is i'm sure it was written in, in london or washington. um, you know, they, this is this, this defying any kind of attempt to resolve this. i mean, and we're all to that, went through the elections we had with the, in the, within the european union, we just hear talk of mobilization, more economy. these are all craven choices, or hey, you get episode or anything either because um, the position of the you a nate. so the united states risk is an absolute as well. and i mean that position is, uh,

richard onto the pre 1991 borders. but how are they going to achieve this? i mean, that means it will forever. i mean, either it is just a total forever. and that was the tool from my crown. and now those are and the germans and the british to attend to that is of conscription and, and so sending more and more web and rate the ukraine low as you're planning to for this, for the next decade or so. and it's quite remarkable how when it comes to this, really, when you guys are with a sincerely, you'll know they will talk about c spy. what we need to see is what we have that was seized by a we have a slightly over a few minutes earlier and reasons that haven't achieved it. and you can doesn't wonder whether they've been necessary about it. but at least they say we need, we need to cease fire, we need some, you know, a negotiate that outcome to save the solution, whatever. here it's just an absolute display, which is regular. we need, you need to keep this war going, no matter how destructive is businesses. and so, you know, it's just some vague, you know, aspiration that, sold them,

but declare has a news conferences just to show well made. there was a p 0. well, the more we weapons we send to you grand in the fall, so we get to the piece of storks if you don't totally know empirical bases whatsoever. and then once you're safe or bottom is also up with an op ed in news. we in which he has said may though he is a will machine though, is it? well we joined it because we thought it was a piece of drug defense and so on. so, but it is now a goal making machine. we get them, we have, we have numbers, other will making machine and that, and that is exactly of the night when and at this birthday party. that's what the major is going to be celebrating. that's, you know, we're, we're going to keep as we're going in, but to a day the respect to those that you need to be don't, you're right, judge, you made a, you know, with the latest reason why you claim won't be given. membership is, it's,

the country is to corrupt as if they suddenly realize that, okay, i mean, way, before all of this the, the, the levels of corruption were legendary as the buying family. they know a lot about that. okay. so, but, you know, it's the martin, this is like a birthday party celebrating somebody, an intensive care. okay. and there's no lifting that her glasses, you know, you know, we don't want to have the patient to die, but we're not going to do it. we're not going to do any kind of intervention to save it. it's really quite pathetic. and again, why the training and leadership goes along with is the only reason i can explain is that they're lining their pockets. and i'm too cynical martin, as to think you're right, it's going to be right. that's the only logical reason, you know, in the last week missing reports. now those incidents whose wives spending, what was it $5000000.00 and they've got to, you know, i mean, these kind of reports that come through, just keep on a firm and unassuming level as money. and a lot of this equipment is going missing. and honestly, what's the latest now or even denying this anymore? you know, i think they've basically, except to this is,

this is bulk of the course. you know, you have to accept the good part of this, this, this, this bounty is gonna end up in the pockets of, of the, of the cabal of, of us. let's use people on himself. so i think, uh, you know, in that respect, nothing changes but, you know, the idea is the ukraine company, a girl into that drawings and membership of late. so, because it's too corrupt is, it reminds you of that scene in casablanca, you know, where the police chief is closing down the hotel. and as it, as always, chaos is going on behind him. you know, a, he says to rick, this disgraceful, you know, to temper and going home, you know, and then somebody comes up to him and gives them a lot of cash is bungie, you know? and it sits on the same saying, isn't it, you know, you're, you're to corrupt drawing nights. so by the way, here's another $100000000000.00 to carry on. you know, it is a lot of confused mixed messages. and really, as i said earlier to you a few, a couple of months ago, you know, when we talked about the nature, but they brought to, you know, a lot of a lot of

b s. and let us take notice now is going to be presented to in shroud this into a subset. but you know, where do we go? where does this will this leading it? oh, i think i'm, i'm george. i'm looking forward to biden's. um, um, um speech at the, at the account. uh. com. fab go ahead. george spent 40 seconds before you go to the right. well, yes. done. but interesting. the, the, this is the issue that, well, we can't um bring the ukraine in. uh, just at this moment, because then he raises an expression. well, when he few comes, then why don't you just bring this war to an end? i mean, if you call and if you ask, what is it saying that you call and realize your condition? who will talk about, you know, the road to nato membership is oakland, then bring it to an end. what is the point of continuing along with it? well i, i just showed out, well, what we part of ukraine will eventually get into that a to, because of it's just, it's dissolving in front of our eyes and they're watching it. and obviously the boss of, of, of soldiers is the risk big gentleman,

i'm going to jump in and here in a way to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion of some real new stay with our to the the his policy is the king has been a big fabian and not just in the crane and the bus and but in israel garza unit, the relationship of china is getting any pets, it goes to a unit named me a phone policy challenge when things go based on the deadline that they think the bills name is

the the what is part of the the employee would post that isn't the, the place you of us in that in the word or is it something deeper, more complex might be present there? let's stop without cases. let's go products. as the welcome minister across the boulevard in time peter little here. we just have some real is really change gears. a more we had a, an election in the u. k. it was widely expected that labor would do very well. it

did very well. but if you scratched just a little bit into the numbers here, it's not the kind evict free. but um, obviously labor is claiming, and of course, the other center of a sudden you're of and the united sega, this is the way it's gotta be done. okay. but if you go to the 2nd, 3rd, 4th layers of the numbers, it's not the victory that it appears to be, pardon is no, and that's because we have this outdated, draconian, and frankly, a weird voting system in the u. k which we cool for us post the post. and this particular system allows label to win by quite a huge majority, but actually only took 34 percent of the entire vote. so um, you know, it, it, it's, it's outdated, it hasn't worked for a long time, but it creates these cooks. so in this particular time i come and i get a kiss, thomas, sorry, got them actually less loose. and jeremy cool button in 2017, which is good,

quite remarkable. and we were hoping that it would open the floodgates for number of smaller policies. um, i think the live dentist did incredibly well. but in terms of french parties, you know, federal, but he's got 5 seats. this is very, very low number of seats, but it's a critical amount of votes, a shed, some light, 14 percent, which the new kinds of government is basically forced to work with him. now, so you know, the timeline now really is to look 5 years ahead. unexpected coalition between so i'll just box the on the conservative, a new conservative bobsy in the meantime. really, we can't really expect so much change you've, you know, you've got that. the policies between these 2 policies were really not that def. and when we looked at a bigger scale, international stories, you know, sort of policy, in many ways, the cigarette paper between the 2 of them, you know, perhaps some, i might be forced into reducing defense spending. i'm putting back on ukraine simply because it's going to over spend on just about everything else, meals,

what labor governments do. they get into power in the 1st 100 days. they just spend and spend to spend them, you know, like lunatics without and yeah, but i mean, one of the things i mean from a far here george to mean what is so conservative about the tories these days and what it is. so i'm left about labor in the u. k. i mean, if i don't see the ideological okay, you can have, you know, um, um the uh, woke element and, and all of that with, with labor and all of that. but they, me, but even then we have the tories, you, we had, you know, boy scouts and kind of channeling his inner femininity. i don't remember the exact phrase, but i mean, something like that. and the unified completely on foreign policy. what is the difference? i mean, this is what i think voters are very i discuss it with because like i discuss it with the personalities of the, of the, of the conservative party. and they were, they were, you know, mean was almost like a, you know, high school cafeteria and, and i don't, you know, but when the, when labor is coming in, you know,

with their agenda and all that, i don't see it a whole lot of different the that really isn't any really, it's under different so there isn't any difference. and, and that's why i think the label is going to run into a lot of trouble very quickly. because as monday and pointed out, the numbers suggest that there was no in susie as i'm whatsoever for labor. i mean because it's not just the labor one few of votes, then they want me a 2019 that that 2019 election would lead to the of the else the of um, jeremy pool then um and um and then so this book is because this lack of popularity and he let me alone. kiss tom as own constituency. 2019. and yeah, the majority of 28000. that's gone down to 7000 subjects. 128-002-7000 majority. these are, imagine a try on when the lead to marching his troops into 10000 states and he gets this

massive a vote against them. he and his own constituents, if so what's really happened is that, that uh, you know, the so going right and, well, the bar is johnson putting on this fake populace conservatism and 29 c. and he broke through, you know, all of us, of the traditional labor areas and these are all, this is a new kind of populace conservatism in terms of because boston and all the way. but in those constituencies, reform is now the same to late, but and so that's something where we all ready for ours is clever and skilful. that's where he should the focus of the is the be very important here because of those, those, the voters who voted for breakfast. i'm not going to be happy with labor as blind to cozy up and make nice with the babble. and, you know, to push all the, the agenda that 0 basically getting, you know, thinking of

a liberal stance on, on the immigration, then i'm going to go for it for a birthday. then they go to turn and that's what reform should come man. so that's what that's about a $105.00 constituents is that's a, that's a $105.00 that the reform should win. and so next time around could result would be a very significant up. that's the most important number to add of the entire election is the number of times the reform party came in. second, mario is the new prime minister of the u. k. um. so remember, when i hear his name, i think of how he was part of the disgraceful campaign against julian a size um and and uh we had uh, stabbed uh, jeremy carmen in the back. and now he's just a deep stave. operative okay. do you? oh, and he's like human rights to advocate, you know, really, really well are actually actually, he's the, he's the, let's is the center left new version of course johnson, and he is a prolific lyle. he actually goes back on almost everything to be says just as well

as johnson does, did. so i think we're going to have to get used to that. but the 1st on today's and office, and he was gonna be a massive anticlimax. and in britain you said, who is, who is this guy? he's many things so many people, but what worries me is his proximity. it's there as well. you know, he's really a puppet of design, is regime and we're going to see a lot of people proceed on his route. we're going to need, they've already wheeled out to david, allow me possibly the most stupid man in british politics for a long time. who is in the day and stuff and that's said somebody who is prep us done. i'm why is it been wheeled out? because i think that's going to be a must have a delusion solution here. we're going to pretend to be gunning for a cease for an, an, a 2 state solution. but in reality we're going to be doing just as bind did, is supporting designers even more to carry on with the, to, to work in the, in the genocide. so it's going to be a false, it's going to be a lot of fake news and people are going to be, i'm going to the believing that this is new. tell me which cares about. the other

thing is when it doesn't a tool, but i think the economy is not going to be boosted simply by a goodwill fact. you know, a good, a good feeling and button that we've got to change coming into people in person won't change, but they didn't really know what kind of change they wanted. and so you had a protest vote. a big participate was people not voting. a tool lot of people stayed at home, another protest, but it was the low tories to vote labor just to send a message to their employees that you've got 5 years to shape up, you know? but i mean, how long can stomach and keep the sign on this, you know, i imagine not much longer than the 1st year in office when the policies start failing and labor results to it's tried and tested method in short to stay in office politics, which is the high taxes, and that's what we're going to see in the okay. you know, we're gonna, we're going to be overtime. so going to be like an e u member stay like from so geometry. right. and i taxes. and this will put more pressure for change to come about. it won't bring in and basically raising taxes

that just destroys business. you know, if people have got less money to spend an ice feed that to, to, to us, for an investors, you know, basically our economy is, is heading towards the best george. i mean, again, we the, we don't really see it that the policy alternatives are getting more and more narrow. eva, even tory governments player. you know, what, there's breaks it, you know, that was bell basically because of mostly because of immigration. but since breaks immigration has just been crazy. so, i mean, you know, it doesn't matter who you're getting quoting power, you get the same government that you do. and that's why the tories were rejected. so resoundingly, and, and of course, believe it has no plan for immigration. i mean, to me, to research the sort of the biggest issue in the u. k. off or obviously the economy and we've done, it's just terrible because you know, the conditions are really,

you know, uh, the price of grosses and everything else. but this is a huge issue, and i believe it has absolutely no idea what, what they going to do about it. and so that's why they're going to run into enormous problems immediately. and then money comes to ukraine. let me look at how many times, just in the 1st 24 hours of the victory of style, and then baby allow me to bring up ukraine. why? why they took my degree and it just me a general election year. you were saying, you know, you want to use the spelling of what are the top 5 things we're going to be doing for the british people. and it said that talking about the rent i agree with when my hot and david allow me is a very, very stupid man and he is going to be the front man. i mean that that's, that's what i think a james cleverly because his breed assessor as part of the secretary, like you basically put them forward. they don't, they don't people have any power that they're essentially to show. well, we're really committed, you know, to diversity. you know, we, we want to have such a wide range of people in the district. so

a wonderful british life is and anybody can make it to the top. but basically, um sama given his wife given. he is a, his own background is going to be a very, very pro zion, as a prime minister and, and they go to pursue this, you credit policy, which is very, i'm kind of pillar and it is going to be immediate. i'm going to be the 1st by election in under the sky. the government is going to be a huge rejection of style. and so he really doesn't have any real agend. i mean, you call him as no. nothing like totally blair in 197 or anything like that. there's no mandate there. and so it's just a rejection. and of the tories? well, i mean, combine one of the, one of the thing, good things that came out of the electra, the entire, almost the entire front bench of the tories are gone up. the young people i've known for years, you know, um i don't know how to contact them and say, sorry, you know that just sitting in front of that tv's now watching um dates on

television, what do they want to do with their lives but powerful big people people who really to make decisions and, and what game changes you know, they, it's, but i think the public enough to reinvent it. so i think, but i think, i think to pick up george's point about reform reform is certainly a punches a could grow very quickly. in the next 5 years and it could be something huge and, and in the next, in the next election and the, it's inevitable when these policies start to fail on sale of foster pace. that for right votes increased dramatically. and as george says, this storm has got no policy, a tool for integration, thousands of people across the channel from, from seeing these boats. well, i mean, george, for the a, the martin from the outside looking in the only thing i keep hearing about is ukraine. but that's it. well, i think i've jumped on the, the media. so trick of you know, deflecting john was away from the game. it may be because they're impacting their bags to go to the nato summit. okay, gentleman,

that's all the time we have one to think, my guess in budapest, in america. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here. all righty. so you next time. remember across apples, the, on the,

on the see the silver. so the move up to somebody how can it be that um the shipped to the middle east from a country whose top officials constantly complain about shortages of munitions and military equipments through a little bit of bus locally. and the one uses them with below grade level nominal facility or some of those other slash we i'm about to the easiest to to not. and it was so wonderful. yeah, well, i'm an easy somebody remember, but uh sure, well, nice to have to kind of the piece that have gone on now. well, why are weapons from ukraine spreading over the world to, to this country and to a major arms hub, will continue to bolster ukraine's and forces by rushing them occasionally use that they need to defend their country. the everyone knows very well that we don't sell but known as pineapples or any kind of children's toys. we sell weapons. yes,

we're also known in the world as items dealers that we must not be ashamed of them . the of the hello and welcome to was a part one victim that studying history teaches you is that everything works until a dozen the friday, the golden age, the dark, or maybe it's aftermath, especially when somebody tries to avoid the inevitable. will delete this elections in the west more and more vividly demonstrating the voters disenchantment with

bateman date. of course. what do i have for the west and for the rest world to discuss it. i'm now joined by m filed a former british diplomat and also roles and miss fit in moscow. how british diplomacy in russia failed as a proud, as great to see you again. thank you very much for your time. nice to get on some of the things to invite some you by. now the last time we chatted, it was primarily about the case for and po assistance. he's a russia which borrowing from the title of your book sale. but to them, more interested in taking a look at the domestic politics across the west and also in the united kingdom. because we have had a number of major political events like elections in your own country or in france, the essential debate in the united states. and i think in all of those, the political establishment is looking rather clumsily. i wonder if you see that as just, you know, related sequence of,