so, so that's it for you just so that way, you know, give them step is just a little bit slow. it's under control. so you have to remember the name on it. it's going to only is a visual of literature. and i do have to, if he's available in the middle of it, so frustrated with as much as you can get the praise i show you a different level may assist you more. um, when you do it on different shifts and which the color you can throwing up at the let's just sponsor, excuse me, just go out. i don't put it in my physical or either of course the just going to put in the see it is done with this, i think 0 and this was was the controller. so sort of the, the, [000:00:00;00]

the hello and welcome to cross talk. we're all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle . the north atlantic treaty organization is celebrating its 75th anniversary in washington. this week, for many in the west, nato is deemed to be the most successful military alliance in history. for others beyond the west, nato is the most serious security threat to humanity. today, the cross fucking nato, i'm joined by my guess. erin, good in philadelphia. he is a political scientist historian, as well as author of american exception empire in the deep states in san francisco . we have k, j. know he is a political analyst and journalist and in lisbon we cross alexander guerrero. he is an international legal analyst. gentleman comstock rose in effect. that means he

can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate, aaron, let me go to you 1st thing in philadelphia. um, um we have, we here over and over again. nato is the most successful military alliance in history is almost like getting f one on your computer. but you know, as they're celebrating their uh 75th anniversary in washington, what achievements have, do they have under their belt, other than surviving as an alliance? that's the only quote unquote achievement. i can think of go ahead or as well they tow served to keep alive western imperialism and to re brand it as a either under consolidated under the us band or as really of all of the colonial powers of the world. the united uh, basically the core of capitalism and imperialism for the proceeding surgeries. and they were able to re branded as a defense of freedom, this very powerful force or a that had

a lot of investing capital all around the world. the us police that and nato was the tip of the spear. they're in a sense, especially as it began to expand into these quote unquote peacekeeping missions and so on in the wake of the cold war of the aftermath of the cold war. and this led to it becoming something new, kind of different sort of a in force or for the, the, or global capitalism for the us, us empire, west and imperialism. and but going back to the cold war, i mean, if it's a successful lot regime in that it's did stay in power for so long, but it's also existed as a kind of dictatorship of europe in certain ways. i mean the gladiators, the gladto networks were called nato secret armies by some people. and they were there as a kind of dictatorship in the wings for any western european leader that got out of line that they could states falsified terror attacks. so it, it put the lie to democracy because you can't really have

a democracy when the state maintains a secret veto over the very lives of your heads of state. and can also engage in acts of policy like terrorism to move the population politically wherever they want them. so this is really a dark floors in global politics that i don't think will be fully recognized by large parts of the public until the afternoon. as with so many things of that we see in the last decades, especially the us empire, was such a denial of what is at the top of it at the corner of it. uh that i don't think we can deal with it until that power is, is decisively defeated. and perhaps when nato is dissolved, we'll start talking about, well, you know, yeah, okay. it's really interesting with their visa be the ukraine complex. nato has been able to devour as it were, the european union. i mean, it's, you know, you the, the, it's nato, the dictates the security ideas of,

of the entire union. the independence of states do not. so that is another on notch and nato has belt. i'm one of the interesting things as they always talk about themselves as a defense of alliance. i'm calling this program our fence of alliance. i wonder would people ins in serbia think about the term defense of alliance or libya and the failed mission in you in afghanistan? i mean, and also what they're doing in ukraine. i mean, they continue to say that they're not a party to the conflict with lisa, which is just laughable. go ahead. k j. yes, i've been, it's been the murderous on of us imperialism. and it's, as you said earlier, it's great. his success has been, it's branding, or it's mystification of what it's really doing. it's not defensive. it's never for a defensive war in it's lifetime claims to be a collection of democracies. but no, it's never been democratic from the beginning. it was

a lied with special states like for 2 goals and delete it was integral in ensuring the success of fascism around europe. and it even had lose one time chief of stock adults purchasing got a he went from the chief of the nazi military command to the chief of the nasal military for not. and did you know of ports to uphold human rights and rule of law . but actually destroyed human rights, it destroys human lives. it destroys a quote. and i think the way that the countries around on the walls had largely seen through it. see what it is under the rest on us imperialism bein sports. the goons on you, it looks well, it's alexander, you know, they, they call themselves the defense of alliance. but if you look at the security architecture of europe, nato is an instrument in which europe and security is decided not only without russia but against russia,

and that's why we have the situation we have in ukraine. go ahead and lisbon. right here we are saying here in europe where we say the best defense is just that. and basically this is the, the, the, the, the topic that inspires the model that lease nato on east actions towards any other countries. we must not forget the notary itself. it was created in lake nothing for specially to check colt and to block. the government isn't as well as the most of the union all over europe. so the start to do have any direction to fight russia. what do these russia after the buckle are all the full of the whole things? the chief jim drastically because they have and crumbling back them. a president that was all in favor of the west of useless. but suddenly, when the russians decided to have their own identities to make their own way by themselves, then again,

russia rise as being understood here in the west as being anatomy. and as long as we have this kind of understanding to look at russia as anatomy and not as an alarm, we will keep only speeding social the rest. the serial in the ras innovation is like actually that's everything that marks and that's the main brand of natal all over the world. so what we have knowing you bring this is not a surprise if we take a look above how the united states worked so hard along with you'd be you and you can solve a democratically elected president. and it's right to be plus the political situation in the brain and to go, we are missing now, underneath those lives. this is understood as being a challenge on the life of their we, we as nate or we is where we have to defeat the independence. russia as well as multiple or is this you saw things understood and mean? yeah,

this is how nature always works is by spreading more and more locally fig news, but also to share and to provide a lot of weaponry the brain. because the dream is not to say the brain. he's not the revenue dependent to bring the bowl. the main goal is only to target russia and other russia equal also can china, the 2 major powers into world war independently work independently from western needs and quote, you know, area and wait, wait, we heard from lloyd austin, the secretary of defense early on in this complex, or this part of the complex, i should say, because it started in 2014 not in 20. 22. is that the goal was to weaken russia, and of course not only to weaken russia, but to break it up. we have their officials in the european union now, but say that openly go ahead. aaron, the right that's clearly was the whole might onto was about. and it's more and more obvious that this is the case and it's the it, the whole episode highlights the real crisis at the top of the us regime because

it should have been easy to game out that the, you, that the, the ukrainians, we're not gonna be able to defeat russia that russell viewed this as a extremely important existential even battle for themselves. and that they would, they would not be able to defeat them, defeat russia in ukraine without provoking a response that would likely leads and go to nuclear war. then russia has been very methodical about treating the ukrainian military. that is essentially a know military a week after week after week. and when you, we were talking before about how you people predicted that this conflict put it in pretty quickly, and it absolutely should have been did very quickly. it was about to end in april. right. so that's why it's negotiations. and it's a truism and international relations and political science that you can't achieve anything at the negotiating table that you cannot achieve on the battlefield. but this wasn't really true for ukraine. ukraine could actually walk away with

a much better deal than it ever could achieve on the battlefield as we are seeing now. and was always obvious. and the, the war itself had the effect of imposing upon russia. the imperative that they had to engage in import substitute industrialization because of all the sanctions and everything else. but the us actually in the west, the liberal west of the early cold war, used to actually advocate this for countries, the head balance of payments pro, problems and so on. as a way to shore up their economic systems. and this is how the us became an economic power was through import substitute industrialization, taxing tariffs and taxing in parts, and building infrastructure. that was how the us became and with power. that's all right. so we basically force pressure to do things that were very beneficial for russia economically and industrially. and we hasten the end of the dollar regime. and we have wasted a massive amounts of money,

some of which went to actually buy weapons and probably pay soldiers. but a lot of it was just embezzled by ukrainians. who are they're taking all of this money and just sacrificing their own countrymen for this doomed effort. that is really only made russia considerably stronger us and nato a weaker and destroyed ukraine. yeah, i mean k of the, the, the whole effort to turn the, the, the, the rubel into rubble is actually boomerang very, very strongly against the west. i mean, if you, if you're not a lift you live in russian, you don't follow the news. you wouldn't even though the country is sanctioned. go ahead take a real quick before we go to the break. absolutely, and most countries have not gone along with those sanctions. it's the vast majority of countries, except for the e. u and some western european vassals, those are the only countries that have gone along with these unilateral illegal sanctions, most of the world has voted with their feet and they said,

we are not with the united states. we're not with nature. and so very clearly, as you point out in russia, you know, the sanctions on felt rushes. economy is doing fine. it's like it's doing much more . well, i mean, i'll surprise a lot of viewers. i like the sanctions. i like them or get away from the toxic a financial system of the west because it doesn't have a future gentleman. i have to jump in here. we're going to go to wish a short break. and after that break, we'll continue our discussion on nato state with our to the the

the a hi, i'm rick sanchez and i'm here to plan with you whatever you can do, do not watch my new show. seriously. why watch something that's so different. little opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to please or do the have the state department c i a weapons, bankers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your facts for you. go ahead. change and whatever you do. don't want my shelf to stay main street because i'm probably going to make you comfortable. my show is called stretching time. but again, you probably don't want to watch it,

because it might just change the way and say well, can make the prospect where all things are considered on people about your mind. you were discussing nato. the alton roy started out this program by asking air. and what the achieve, what nato was achieved on at 75th birthday here. but i, i found, you know, broken promises to be honest with you. and let's go through 4 of them real quick, one right after another. not one in east talking about german unification. ok, they lied about that ukrainian neutrality. they lied about that indivisibility of security. they lied about that. and the whole mens process they proven to move themselves to be deceitful, liars, so i don't know what they're celebrating, but i think the, the, the dishonesty into publicity of this alliance has to be highlighted. that's why

i'm making this program. alexander a yes, basically they're celebrating all those countries that they help to fuel and rest. they also help to these member, and i think about you was live, you're probably on their neighbors perspective. this is a reason to celebrate a, specially for the present to present the secretary general. do not the nations who back them was primary source, portugal and she supported fully. then they do it. the ration daniels love it now sees a feeling and to try to call for it or be in, in, in your brain. but basically what you bring has been given guys what nato has been giving us all over this time. was only the early speak agenda. only then will solution that they want to gather more and more countries on the under the perspective of a boarding seer. rather than that, they will give any kind of depressive perspective. for example, you bring,

they have the expectations to join nato. so wish we allow, it's highly unlikely. normally it will never happen. never bought. i bought the st possible, but it's technically it's highly unlikely, but i believe that they keep would keep pressure on the secretary general natal to last accept down at the same time, i believe that this is not queasiness. there literally this we took the blue we far above these events on the be the building here. yeah. the way it was discussed in the base over west and meet with the media. yep. and how this could be used in order to justify more and more weaponry support from day to to you break. we never heard. we have never heard and zoom out and not only natal officials but also being an individual's speaking about these about jews never have about that. we only hear

the say kind of model which is destroying and defeats russia. we have to think rush it re, douglas, what did they fix? they will produce all you bring and i have to west. what do you guys have to bring? will we have in the next one to 2 years? we'll back even be you great. what is this the project alternate to is? this is next. well, you know, alexander, i don't think the nato under the leadership of the united states gives a hoot about what happens to ukraine personally. okay. i mean, i suppose of the, is the lensky resume as illegitimate as it is right now, they will always strive for nato membership as long as they get paid. okay. i don't know. do these people send their kids to the front? i tend to doubt it. you know, aaron, there's a, i mentioned my, my 3rd broken promise lie here. and i don't want to sound really nerdy, but you know, the indivisibility of security. this was what made your opinion security work. you can not enhance your security at the expense of another country. everybody agreed

to that. everybody, if it was called the helsinki process. okay. and now nato, as if that doesn't exist. we'll rush adults, aaron, or right, and we're seeing now with the position of that israel finds itself in that it really is a huge security issue to have hostile military powers right on your doorstep. israel has been in this position where it should have tried to make peace with the people in the region, but it was so hell bent on an x pro, creating what the palestinians had left, that they've antagonized all of their neighbors. and they find themselves surrounded by people who have missiles that can be aimed at them. and there's really no defense against that. ukraine armed with hypersonic missiles. what's the us will one day be able to produce, you know, more efficiently in the near future. that would have been a disaster for rest. so they would have been minutes away from the nuclear range of

nato. moscow would have been, so it really was a tremendous thread and, and, and the legitimate threat. this wasn't an imperialistic land grab by a vladimir, put in the way that it's depicted in the west. brussel has lots of land and lots of resources. it really was motivated by a fear of security, that is part that is existence. so because it's the same logic that the us applied to cuba in the cuban missile crisis. and you can't really stop ballistic missiles that are very close to you as israel is finding out, you can just overwhelm all missile defense systems. and that's why this is, it was deemed it's such a huge threat in part, in the fact that it would have taken away their access to a warm water port which is essential for russia, which i think is part of the motivation for it. i think rushes, the backing of syria made the you couldn't the neo cons that, that run us for a policy for the last 30 years. it made them go kinds of insane that because they really, i think that there are people who are

a large part of them are dedicated 1st and foremost to the idea of greater israel and syria stands in the way of the final solution is of the postilion and since the rest of health, syria, as well, the rest of it had to be destroyed. i think that that might be the thing that best explains why they were not so greedy because that's what we expect from western imperialism. but really in single minded, it was stupid way to confront russia in a stupid well english. and so, i mean, why they didn't, they, they know very little about history because let's just go back to the cold war 2 major new killer powers. don't go toe to toe, it's not a good idea. you know why? because one might lose or both might lose. go back to the 19th century. great powers try to stay away from, from fighting each other because you could lose. okay, look what happened in 1918 major powers finding each other one empire after another collapse. it's not a good idea to do it. and now we have new killer weapons. okay. that that's what makes these people or fools and very,

very dangerous k j. let me go to you. i mean i, i promised myself i wouldn't make a program about biden's dementia, but the biden's, the mentor is inter interfering with our program. okay. we all know about the disastrous debate checks that's done. but then with the a b c, news interview with stephanopoulos, the biden was talking about his achievements. i expand nato, didn't to just do americans really give a hoot about expansion of nato? i mean, considering house the country is for the debt that is there. be like so many people feel for their livelihood here. and you have this man saying, but i expanded nato. i mean, these people are really out of touch. you know, it's, it's up. so i mean, clearly by doing is no longer capable of, you know, exercising even minimal cognitive function. i think just the other day he said that he was the 1st of july of price it on uh, uh, sized for is that, yeah,

yeah. as vice president. so i think that, you know, in the united states, all you have to do is look around, you, people are starving, they're homeless. that hysterical. the neg kid that's suffering, you know, 50 percent of the us population does not have $600.00 to its name. and for joe biden, to go up in an interview and say that is great. accomplishment is expanding nato. i mean, i think all of us look around and say, you know which planet is this person living on? it's just an absolute and total upset. well, you know, but alexander, explain to us why nato won't negotiate an end to this conflict in ukraine. by my account. russia is proposed 5 different times. and, and as aaron pointed out, when the stem bull process and weeks after the complex started in february of 2022, there was a,

a sticker document that had been essentially initial. why can't nato negotiate an end to this? because when, when this comes to an end, make us go to look very bad, it may be, its very existence will be at stake. it has a choice. go ahead. well, are mostly, i honestly believe that natal steel holes that there is a liking the end of the tunnel that will allow them to actually well exaggerate. you know, i liked the matter for the light at the end of the tunnel, but you know what, that light at the end of the tunnel is a train coming out to keep going to exist. exactly that and that's pretty much what we'll, what will happen. yeah, because they have the expectation that they will be say, then that they will be able to get off of this conflict in a clean way. we'd all take at least 2, but need they need to face their own folders and say, well, we have to do a lot of this. we have to achieve an agreement. but at least this was the best solution for everyone, because presently there is no best solution for natal. there's no good solution

natal. simply these continue and trying to use your brain as a weapon against the russian and until the moments that they will not be able to continue to do so on that moment. natal, one to any kind of excuse to go into your parking for this, possibly, like yourself, their work, at least 5 attempts made by russia to achieve reach a peace deal. the 1st one, it was not because you bring this even want to be, it was because the brand names were forced to buy in west. we have decided to say this many, many other funds and not to believe that this was the dance. there were several others, i don't believe that you gradients are pretty comfortable on, continue fighting against the rest yet and every day. listening to the news and watching it with the and reading at the same time that another village another. another place has full and at the same time,

dozens or hundreds of you bringing the gary personnel has died. i don't believe that they actually accept that to continue if i think is a solution. well, i'm it. but there, and if you, if you know, if you're in the zalinski gang, i don't know how they cut up the spoils here. but i mean, it's an amazing griffith. i mean, well keep it going as long as they possibly can. i'm sure they've got planes on the tarmac to fly them to miami or tell a v, okay, or wherever they're going to go. i mean, this is at the end of the day that's a gripped and, and, and it, we have people like hunt, like hunter biting video was the spear of it all. go ahead aaron. yeah, it will be very interesting to see how this plays out. the in the game here with these people because it's going to become clear to the training is if it's not already that they have been robbed and sold down the river by these people. i think that this is the carrot and the stick. far zalinski is that he can, you know, steal and embezzle, you know,

millions and millions of dollars from the money that the us gives you train. but he also faces that potentially happy you tries to reverse course. i think that the knob i the is own people by his own people. a. yeah, he has a nazi contingency that believes that this is some sort of eschatological conflict for them internet and saying, you know, an area and back and waterways, but i don't even understand when it's the end of the day. a lot of people are going to leave and are going to be counting their money and no one will be held accountable for this catastrophe that never should have happened, gentlemen. that's all the time we have. i want to thank my guess in lisbon, felt philadelphia and in san francisco. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at ortiz. see you next time. and remember across across

the water is part of the blog post that isn't the deepest view of us in that in the word part. is it something deeper, more complex might be present? let's stop without keisha's desktop, part of and everything had changed with our daughter. she was completely when they came back and they told jamie, your daughter is having a diabetic ketoacidosis, i was miserable. i just felt sick and nauseous. hardest cancer diabetic per on her

. obviously that affects every part inventory and assist in the american diabetes association. american diabetes association fee has been bought off by the millions of dollars that the pharmacy to corp see. and then every year i wasn't given a specific diet, just told to inject and test. so i wish i could go back and change the governing bodies, put these recommendations out, forces physicians to live within those guidelines for fear of reprisals. people have not been told the full truth on how to manage the diabetes and what, what the consequences are funding low carbohydrate diet. there was a multiple $1000000000.00. they found the corporations that were go bankrupt

the nato. it was 75th oller versus re summit in washington, kicks off with a quote, historic donation to ukraine on the block continues to pope china. 75 is the most successful, the festival g. so this way, what it does puts the world in regents at high security with risk but firmly reject nato's notification implants. shifting i always say that piece is essential for the bright future of our next generations, which is why we emphasize that dialogue is necessary. indian prime minister in their render loading calls for