yes, steve is continues at the the, the i'm action or it has to welcome back to going underground, broadcasting all around the world from the u. a. today a few years ago, german nazis after a peace treaty and then more declaration for britain began the deportation and mass murder of quarter of a 1000000 jews from the warsaw ghetto on holocaust trains to tripling in garza today. if you accept the estimates of the medical journal, the line, so it's the number of palestinians killed by u. k. u. s. you weapons maybe proportionately like wiping out 5 and a half 1000000, mostly women and children in britain or 27000000. mostly women and children in the usa. millions have been left to starve with no way to hide as hospital schools and

all sides of human civilization. are in i, elated by nature weaponry and google and amazon cloud computing systems. well, this is prison judging israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu prepared for wednesdays applause from the u. s. congress board and paid for by his riley lobbyist. today of the white house, he meets genocide, joe accused even by his own supporters of being demented. all that while presumed next year as president trump has appointed design. and so i will send that to j. d funds as his vice presidential nominee, joining me from jerusalem, his veteran is rarely negotiator and middle east director of the london based international communities organization and human rights advocacy group. i talked to gosh, on baskin talked about skin. thank you so much for coming on. let's just start with the weather you've seen is really, authorities fail so badly as they are now, despite the support of european union and the united states after israel is a,

well, it's become alienated from the whole of the world except those nato countries. and i think this is become recovery. individuals become alienated from large number of as really citizens who no longer want this government to hold us no longer what, nothing. y'all was our prime minister. it is a chilling introduction that you gave one this quite a study and it's just mold in reality that we're living here in israel and palestine. and any rational person has to in commute that it seems that israel has no coherent strategy, a facing the palestinians, facing the aggression that started by from us on october 7th. and nothing else call for the total victory is something which is certainly not achievable through any military means. there has never been a military solution to these when he published and in conflict, there still is no military solution to this conflict. there is only

a political diplomatic solution and nothing now has done everything possible since 2009 to avoid a diplomatic political solution to these already posted in conflict. i mean, it's easy to blame a israel occupancy for all of that. i'll go to the is there a, the population, but it's not just that yahoo is a, i mean it's blinking sullivan bite and they're the people visiting israel. and i mean that, and you know, to the team, you couldn't be doing any of this without the help of the united states. good. rather than just the thing is really little the to from the beginning of the war they way back 9 and a half months ago. the united states could have been the door in a week's time in 2 weeks time. simply by telling use of the supply you with any bones, any more to drop on gossip. and that would have put in to the war. but in the american administration of the british government and other european countries, other countries around the world have supported israel's 1st of all right. to

defend itself. and um, north one, some us no one wants of us to stay in power and go. so i'm just seeing, i think it was the ultimate opportunity to change the reality on the ground. i don't think that anyone could have imagined the amount of slaughter and the americans killing instruction that has taken place over the last 90 and a half months by the is really army with american and other weapons. and then 3, and this is certainly shown us and that this is not sustainable. this has to end this war that's been going on between israel and the palestinians for more than a 100 years. now this 4 has to be the last work done that actually what, why do you think those europeans as so states and the united states by them blinking side of why they doing that, then if they don't like then yahoo and so they say as well, it's not a matter of not to know. i really think it in your introduction, you talked about the, the, the holocaust in for is really jews. more jews were killed. one place, one time on october 7th. and at any time since the holocaust and your serial was

traumatized, not only had the, the incredible number of people killed in their homes, taken out of their boots, taking a hostage into casa a. but we also have the reality. the israel was supposed to be the same thing, is there was a place where we're protecting ourselves where the army protects us and on october 7th, and it wasn't there. and people were lifting their shelters in the homes and the keyboards and communities along. it also stood calling for help and no one came to assist them. and we hear that every day used to has not gone to october 8th yet is really still on october 7th. and i think it is origin, a very good job of transmitting that trauma to the united states and to other european countries. primarily that happens was back in terms of perhaps a sense of guilt. going back to the holocaust, we're nobody's there to predict the jews winters tried to escape and there was no country that would take them. i think there's a sense of guilty or i think that there was a time,

a moral imperative to help the jewish people establish a safe staging for themselves. and that's not the case today in and say, i think we are seeing changes. we're seeing changes in the united states, maybe not at the level of the restriction, but i'm gonna charge you for americans today. i think support the cause for palestine have independence and freedom. we're seeing that across europe and civil society all around the world is that israel's between isolated and israel's being brought to the international court of justice in the international criminal court. and the space in this world for is really is the cost of our government is going to get smaller and smaller. uh, yeah, i mean, clearly, uh, the uh, october, the 7th the massacres have changed to a character. i've been on this show. we've talked about it, we had a former justice minister these really government honda to didn't accept what was being said back then gray zone electronic intifada mondo eyes have been talking

about what permits is now exposed. it wasn't from us that killed all those people as you say, the worst atrocities into the holocaust in terms of numbers of debts. it was the israeli government that killed all those people on october, the 7th i read going. so i was just saying that, so really don't need the evidence really points in that direction. you're one or 2 cases where we know that it has really training fire to the home where there were hostages being held by from us terrorist. there were a couple of cases, but what did you make of the read? i mean, this is the, is there any media? i mean, in the media or of country? supposing sending the weapons, we don't get any of that kind of information. but these railey media clearly saying the hannibal doctrine was involved on october the 7th. we think so far as investigation of what happened on october 7th, or prior to october 7th. there is the demand by the people of israel to create a national commission of inquiry heavy by supreme court judge that not in your reviews is to create but i think that there is no denial but 3000 palestinians

across the border from gaza into israel on october 7th, and committed atrocities went through and opened the air and use it to dance festival and murder. $340.00 people burned people in their homes, a large children in front of the apparently some parents in front of joe 3 up at the end of the evidence of the front of the young girls with riches invited on this show will invite them on for work, so this is really paper i read, i mean your particularly interesting to speak to because of your past as regards negotiation to piece. because i think that is a big mistake to try and cover over the atrocities committed by unless we have the most cross maureen red lines on october 7th. it should never be crossed. just as israel has been crossing more, we learned we need to, we need to see the inquiry that you were calling for the net and the i was not allowing to, but you were involved in a piece deal to really is getting ad should lead. so there is homes with us, it was a hostage reduce the only exaggerated between so you would be,

the idea of was discrete, joe, do you know think that there is some, is riley, it's a we in the, is really staying through. so the number of a palestinian prisoners were released as part of the deal that should never happen to a game. and that's why the hannibal directive was used on october the 7th to mass kill . so many is rarely used by the israeli army on by britain united to another be in union. i can, there were isolated cases that we know of that are documented weird because really barley ended up doing is readings. on october 7th, the overwhelming majority of the more than 1200 people were killed on that day, were killed by her last one. you know that it's interesting you say that because we know the discredited zach of movements, logistics. we know that the un looked into, for instance, this actual crimes that were of talked about widely in the media or in the united states and european union. they would discredited shortly off to view it while they

were last. we see you when reports view and by report issues clearly says there's no evidence for one of those claims. well, no, yeah, i read the report. it definitely says the about products here in the specs can be brought in, shown that this is not correct. this is not the heart of the matter. so it's in your thing and i'm not, you know, i'm us, you talked about last people. you're saying that like animals, they were just trying to kill themselves and political violence, a much kind of moves. i said that they committed atrocities on october. so if it would show me the point was to copy it all stages for the hostage. nobody oceans, there may have been the initial plan and people and from us told me that we sent 1500 of our fighters into israel. on october 7th. we expected a 1000 of them to be killed, but it's really our lead. we expected to capture all the bases, antique soldiers as hostages, but they didn't find is really only they're protecting the border and they didn't go to army basis. they went to civilian communities. they went to, people say they went to most of the and they want to stay wrote dental,

14. these are towns on the border where they went in the village and they killed and they break them. they did a truck, there's no evidence of rain whatsoever. no evidence or re whatever, according to that, there's a you in lots of them. i mean, i don't want to think about, i don't want to argue about this and i really don't. you either it's, it's a very sensitive, oh no of. okay. you said a moment to go to me to be, you want an inquiry. why then? or is there any authorities not having an inquiry that would prove your allegation, you know, making these allegations which are so far and substantiate. it's not about october 17, for the i want to let them know implemented a policy since 2009 that sought to divide the palestinians to create a delivery device, palestinian authority, and the boss of his head, and to empower a weekend from us and gaza. in order to stay to the world, we have no parking for peace, nothing out of everything in his power to prevent the 2 state solution from emerging. and this is why i believe there needs to be a commission of inquiry. it's not just about what happened after october, 7th,

and every day since in the last 9 and a half months. but also what happened during the world of years prior. when can sort of refuse to negotiate a 2 state solution with palestinians for 32 states understand there were published indians a majority of post and into advocated to spec solution. but we have the government to israel, which was committed to never allowing an independent published on to be established . and that's why we need a commission of inquiry not just to figure out what happened on october 7th. we also need to know why the army wasn't there. well, i guess where the army was defending settlers in the occupied westberg and they weren't defending israel's borders. how in the last 2 decades, the israel defense force, the idea became and is really occupation police force not doing the job for which it was established and which, which we serve in send our children disturbing. but israel's army has the color of protection, foresters, really surplus. i want to know why they weren't on the border on october 7th, when you think about it. if there had been a dozen times and 3 attack helicopters in the air on october 7th,

early in the morning, october 7th wouldn't have happened. that's all it would have taken to prevent that massive atrocity read on the state of israel that morning. got sort of asking, i'll stop you the more from the middle east director of the international communities organization after this break, the

lease of the russian states. never. i've side as i'm one of the most sense community invest, not getting all sense of the same assistance as being the one else holes. question about this, even though we will fan in the european union the kremlin mission, the state on the rush has proved inc. s r t support that keeping our video agency roughly all the band on youtube tv services. for what question did you say you requested the

welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with veteran is really negotiate that don't to go show and basket started basking. we were talking about the assemblies we had talking about the, the, you know, most the evidence about what happened on that day. but as you said, we've seen the, the repeated breaking of a whole un security council resolutions and who knows what else as regards human rights against the palestinians for, for decades and for years, just remind us of how close you got to a peace deal back in the 2012 uh you actually mentioned the backing of from us buying that them, yahoo, it was a rock is really defense minister on this program who actually will die when i was talking to him about that because he was associated with the back. if i'm us back, then just remind us of how close you came to a security establishment proposal and why it white broke down your agreement. the agreement with them ask you a negotiate to review. recall in october of 2011,

the deal for the release of his release altered you'll actually it was completed with the release of 1027 college student prisoners from israel. amongst them there were more than 300 palestinian prisoners were serving life sentences for killing his relatives. unless it was your sister who are, who is the leader from us and gossip in shortly after the success of the secret back channel, which i have established and was running for the entire time that you left. you wouldn't think of giving me more than 5 years. and i started talking with my from us counterpart interlocutor as a comment about trying to establish a long term ceasefire. who's today? this week's present problems. sorry. who is today the spokes buzzing time us or one of the supposed to be police, a member of the public bureau, the member of the shore account. so he's one of the from us leaders. he's a outside of god. so he did he left sky. so before the war and what's the primary spokesperson of the war from the root at the time. it's just aren't able to anymore

any, any way. and obviously some of you know, i began negotiating a long term expire. she was in it talking directly to the job really, who was the head of the military wing from us. and because at the time, the man who really built the military might of some us at that time, certainly the person who was responsible for objecting and holding it actually. um we went through 4 or 5 verse story to drop anything at that time. they were being bankrolled by the israeli government as well as you just don't know. nobody's these really go, we're never funded from us. the use of the government allows us to be funded from us as a new piece, a, a financial empire is not only $30000000.00 that nothing you know, allowed to come with the gods. every month it brought in the suitcases and then later trousers. how about has built a financial level partners and bitcoin and other crypto currencies and businesses around the world and companies that they own and not just the money. and of course, the whole tunnel enterprise they've worked in government for years. that enrichment

from us. it was many, many hundreds of millions of dollars. if not a lot more. anyway, we were negotiating long term ceasefire a on the day. that is the job to receive the latest version of the test. after i had consulted with these reading the district defensive brock, i consulted with united nations representative with the secretary general and other people about the contents of the of the draft that we were working on. on the morning that the jeopardy received the latest version in arabic, later that afternoon, because real assessing aged him in g was, is seen by israel, is a, is a portable enemy. well deserved to die of israel decided to kill him. it was not connected. invite you to learn negotiations that we were conducting. i'm not sure that anyone in the is really military, really knew that didn't go stations we were conducting were ongoing, and even that chances of scripts success, but after job was assassinated, that was the end of those negotiations. and that was in november of 2012. we have

no way of independently verifying that information about how much funds. but do you think they were people in the as rarely state and most sides and the other elements of the secret said, who are unhappy with the deal to do help negotiate because they didn't want the 1200 to palestinian prisoners captains open of indian hostages out i'm going back to what i'm saying earlier the, the policy on october 7th of taking us to just because you are dealing created the president that no, because he not blaming you for the address of the president. there were deals that happened before the one that idea that you've been released more palestinian prisoners to do with us major pre a back in the eighty's. and there were other presidents where you recognize the hannibal doctrine by some in the israeli deep state, trying to avoid look at the time of the deal was made. it was estimated that 80 percent of these really public supported $26.00 members of the is where the government voted for the deal. 3 members, lou louis as voted against it. nothing else supported the head of the most out. they had edition, but the chief of police,

the chief of the is where the army to steps the army and the most officer in charge of the file or recommend usually go, went to vote for it the day. the deal actually was brought home on october 18th, in 2011, was the day of celebration in this kind of. okay, so what's happened now? because of the polls show that the is really is, i mean, you've already said, then you always deeply unpopular insure might be going to jail. as soon as this, a risk to conflict is over, the genocide is over. what's happened that now they don't uh, apart from those demonstrating for their relatives who are still kept hostage in guys a most israelis not protesting against the opposed to the genocide we're seeing on our phones every few seconds of most the women and children being slaughtered by the british american, into your weapons. now, i think there are 2 things to take into account what is the most, as well as don't seem to hear military disaster, the piece where the army is created in casa, we see the physical damage. all these are the media on these early television. they

have shape talk, we still most sorry they have take talk. they have social media now, but it's really don't watch the same tick, tock, channels that you do and they're not on from us till the ground. more palestinian telegram, they sees really media and they trust is really media and they don't seem to humanitarian suffering. but they're also reliving the trauma of october 7th, every single day. and for most is really is what's happening and garza is revenge. and that's how they relate to it. we don't have a, a rational society which is looking coherently and logically what's being done because we don't see it. now people like me, i get phone calls from friends and goes to every day just yesterday, a young woman, while i hope to support her university tuition and bought her a laptop computer last year with other friends who didn't called me yesterday from the hospital. she was wounded, her mother was wounded, or cousins were wounded with her. the 10th that she was living in your when you

miss was destroyed all over property over blogs. this is a human story. i know this woman. i know her name. i've spoken to her. i've seen her on, on what's a video at most just really is don't have those kind of contacts where they actually know human beings getting closer to the mindset, like with a genocide next door, which they are perpetrating all we it with the weapons from britain to you as long as you exist, i mean should, should have country like that exist on the face of the earth, i totally by those, the estimates from the nonsense thing, which we equate to $27000000.00, wiped out mostly women and children in the united states. that's what we're talking about. if you killed 27000000 people in the united states, i don't think the question of whether another country should exist as a legitimate question. i think the question is whether or not this conflict has a legitimate reason to continue and ship them to parties be sitting down with the help of our allies in the region and around the world to resolve this conflict. we've been killing each other over our right to exist for a 100 years. when i say right to exist, my name is really simple. simians,

the fact that we have failed to negotiate a deal that would enable august to live in peace and security and dignity is the fault of both sides of the complex here in the international community that has allowed us to go on with this complex for so long without forcing us to reach a solution. ok, the weather is realize the right to exist as a cause because i know you the yellow is really politicians. how mosque they also for the 2 state solution. but you know that many increasing numbers. suppose the ones that its solution is it now time to look at a one state solution. instead, all the time was before october, 7th, october somethings prove that the one state solution is totally not viable. i actually thought for here's the for october 7. there's the 2 state solution was dead and we need to find out the solutions. and i was talking to the large number of israelis and palestinians, and sitting room tables and trying to come up with all kinds of ideas of veneration in confederation in the hybrid models. but one of the big surprises of this war is

that the 2 state solution is back in front of us. and countries that have been talking about a 2 state solution for 30 years, but only recognized israel or beginning to turn around, but also recognize the state of palestine. and that needs to happen and well, the recognition of palestine doesn't have the occupation. it does remove the veto from israel on the question, the palestinian statehood. there is an equation here that's perhaps simplistic, but the equation is that the posting is, will not have freedom and dignity is, will, doesn't have security. and this really won't have security in boston even stronger freedom and dignity. that's not to say that the palestinians, and these are, these all don't deserve freedom, dignity and security. they do. but there's an equation that we're talking about between the jordan river and the mediterranean sea. there are 7000000 is where the jews and 7000000 posted in arrows. and no one is going anywhere. and the possibility of their living together under one democratic circular state. there's no real well they said that in south africa famously and the perfect can get some

of the danger already, but it's not the same situation is here. we're not talking about a small minority that controlled a large majority that didn't have any political rights here. you're talking about 2 people's on people numbers that both claim a territory of their home claimant. they give their identity. okay, well just search on your identities you, demographically, that's changing, and lots of his writings have left until october, the 7th. i'll give you a go know how many are we using and we know that 22000 of arrived in israel is neuberger. and since i saw i saw the figure, but we know how, how many uh, left the same way we do. uh, but demographically, we know where the population is headed. view your disability, demographic question here. it's not a battle of the mean. it's the fact that there are 2 people here in a territorial claim. we just their own and boat, people's need to continue to live here in both people's need to find a window was the housing the right to live here. okay. just riley between the river

and the c. one sentence, everyone living between the river and the sea must have the same right to the same rights. that's the basis of an in 2 separate 2 separate nation. are you doing state prevent dates. okay. well just finally being critical of what is relas done? of the icpc investigating the genocide, do you see any prospect from your a bug style hiring for genocide? so there is a better idea of what's happening and gaza. look, the question of genocide is one that the international court of justice has moved. israel is in violation of the convention of genocide and then if you look at the convention in the breaches of the convention that have been done by israel. and so that we're talking about genocide to your according to the convention, there's spring, massive chilling in gaza. but there is no jet assigned, there was total destruction. there is the intent of israel to come, not attempt this realistic, seated and destroying all garza. but there are more than 2000000 people living in costs, and we don't have gas chambers in the ovens burning,

but these and israel is not dropping an atomic bomb. and god of israel is not going in and plowing people with machine guns in pits that they make them dig like the nazis did to the jews in europe. this is not an actual genocide. it is a breach of the genocide convention. but let's be real here. if this were wanting to commit genocide, we would have a 1000000 dead palestinians, not 40000 did publish standards, and that's way too much and there's no justification for it. i mean, it is a word, private. israel has been committed and also i wanted to be clear about that. we have trust merrill red lines and israel's committing wordpress, gaza, but it's not really a genocide showing baskin. thank you. thank you. and that's it for the show. i'll continue condolences to those bereaved by what many believe is a u. k u s a u of genocide will be back with a brand new episode on saturday until then keep in touch while i social media results. that's a new country and had to a channel going underground tv on the com to watching, you know the episodes i'm going underground society.

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