a silver shock this quarter of a phone is less than do they push you up with somebody who does she owns? well, yeah. is that audio still the one with the doctor for one of those little and so forth. us national, move the images on. so squared amount from that's why little do you much really watch the words the which isn't going to the same with me as one of the windshield and what else don't you just send them a thumbs down if they'll box them you will have in here when you push up the issue of the, of them but will not move up is to move the mysterious and when you go ahead and finish the deal is make up the bell. i don't yeah. post the by the other was like

if i use the yeah, i was thinking and then use wasted on me 50 ago. maybe cause it please go ahead and i'll just communicate to me through a couple of national minds, but it just those we have them. we have such all push mojitos to ya. you're losing a deal in space, but i don't think he will definitely stays for little in the tub. the but your move in would you spend is pretty big news. the i'm saying is that, but let me just throw in and this is the one and then the other will be missing via guns. thing is, um, unless of course the little boost is throw it in and not old on the side of the senior slot that is up with that sort of the and i would rate my studios and fuck cosign as a perhaps the most exciting period of my career i went to the soviet union when i came back it was collapsed into 15 bucks. so some of my friends often holding me

responsible for breaking into foreign policy needs to be named. sometimes you may need to make the point gently, sometimes, forcefully somewhere on perhaps 2008. then the us you need for the moment ended in a was where you don't have a global policeman telling you what to do. some countries comes to get the phone conversations on issues india, which has to be on the high table. india is an important voice. it cannot be the hello and welcome my name is on. if i'm case they come to my shoulder for the next oven. odd. we will discuss all these in the potter with a very special guest is a prominent diplomat and has subbed in various capacities, including as the high commission of to 5 years time and canada. they come, i decided to do. thank you very much. i hope of the great to be here. joy bossard

area is a former indian diplomats with a career spending over 3 decades. he holds a bachelor's degree in economics from the university of delhi and earned an m. b, a in calcutta. he later got his 2nd master's and public policy from princeton. his 1st posting was in moscow in 1988. mister resario has served as india as ambassador to poland. unless you amy, yet, he's also served as the high commissioner to canada. and as india is last high commissioner to pakistan with his tenure overseeing a particularly challenging period of relations between new delhi on this loan, about a job, a sorry, a speak several languages is an avid yogi. his 1st book was published earlier this year for you already wanting to be a diplomat. right. but 1st of all, great to be here. i've seen you in the movies so great to see you in person may have admired the movies and i often feel that the diplomats should learn acting because often you need to act in the global states. i think they all did do

a good job. yeah. you know, i, i had it at the back of my mind the, i, because my father was in the government. so i wanted to explore being in the government. i did do an m b. i explored possibly doing either could it is. but then what attracted me to government and the ford service was to be part of the, in the story and to work on a logic canvas. because i had a sense even early in my twenties that you know, the india story is going to be a good one. and it would be exciting to be part of india is join in a more direct way by being part of government your 1st posted in the, in investing most good back in 1988. and since then you have an impressive could you? how is it like being that i believe you speak russian, i do, i do speak some russian and i in fact vent to my 1st posting in the phone service b r o blaze. it's mandatory to learn

a foreign language and mine was russian. so i went to my school university for the year. my job was to learn the language, which i did not. you know, how much time did you learn language? it's an emotion course that we did. so in about 8 or 9 months my, i acquired a good deal of fluency and then below and off the streets. so you know, you're in most in that background. so i did speak the language fairly read. so it was again, a very interesting time because i was posted in most cool, in my formative years in diplomacy from 1988 to 91. how many millions were you there in law school? so i was the 3, you see, one of which i spent learning the language and the other 2, you know, looking at the embassy and the political being and the konami coming. and i went to the soviet union. when i came back, it was collapsed into 15 bucks, and so some of my friends often hold me responsible for breaking it up. i believe

you bought incident, i will do the story behind it. i guess i just joys my parents when they happened to be in seen a good when i was born. so it was my father was a no transferable job and i was born in she no good because he was managing all india radio and as an engineer and, and she now goes. so i was born there. and it so happened that i moved from there to mom, but at the age of 3, okay. i had no memories of or seen or got and catch me, but i did go dad much later and i was already in service. so i couldn't go that to the terrorism is only in this century. i got an opportunity to revisit the place of my birth and the opinions before that. but a and p partition inbox or spam. no, it, it so happened that my mother as a child of rent and state and little hard because my grandfather was posted there

for a couple of years around 1942. so that was just her experience in going to school in the heart. and but the family belonged very much during the day, but from what the dish will do, the story they use to get your feet and the bins partition off. fuck this time just so my mother had some very interesting stories to tell me. 1942 is her clear memory of the quick didn't get a moment. let me see, would see the processions of part of total. and she never heard about. the bucket stopped me because you know, the focused on the holidays. lucian had been boss and 1940, but it wasn't a big thing. so in the forty's, in, in her stories she hadn't really heard of this concept of focused on base. she had gone to right load india and her happiest memories was, were offered trip. the family to do money. mm. the hidden station and they ran to

up to bob and traveled all over. so i often say that in, in the forty's, this was the most integrated region in the world. you could travel from run going to all the way to the shower vape, no visas and a bay, but so it is about the family members that they could travel over this westland and then you became the commissioner of in progress time. and then the most trouble with the times. in fact, that has been no, i commissioned enough to your daniel to how well you're dealing with it. yes. you know, so i would rate my to use in fucking sign of the. but that's the most exciting period of my career because, you know, working in a conflict environment is always a challenge and, but it's also very exciting and 3 is as many diplomatic possibilities. i was then a 2 years. and one of the better docs is a funding for an individual night and focused on me is that during the day there is

a fairly low facility, but in the afternoon you could meet be meeting with diplomatic colleagues and then there's a good deal of friendship. and in the evening of glasses of wine or risky, you are very friendly, right? with the common people or people who haven't got nothing to do with government. so that is a better dogs that did as a such a good deal of posterity. but also such a good deal of friendliness and this go to the affinity of speaking the same language, liking the same food and so on. so i think this, that adults defines a diplomat's role in focused on. i also went to a tough and hostile period. and i think that as bad as some degree of creative diplomacy is required because even at a time when the host of government is very against your opinions government,

you, some doors are open, do have quite conversations in quiet diplomacy and to understand what is happening, what do you think is the basic problem of focused on with india? if you asked me to name one fact to me, i would say it's focused on identity crisis. that while india, uh at, but very rapidly developed an identity, develop the constitution within 3 years of independence and had the benefit of leaders. but some continued to focus fund did not have the same good fortune. it's early leaders passed away and you know, died in 1940 the aid, cut the lucon, the 1st 5 minutes to bust away. 1951 and focused on could not develop a constitution for, it says too much later. so even it developed the constitution in 1956, but that was abrogated by 58. when are you a condo military dictator? to go? so the centered problem became the capture of pakistan by the

elite, in this case, the army leaks who have captured the country and continued to rule it for all these tickets and have distorted what buck hassan could have become in my view. so i think this is a fundamental structural problem that focused on face that it became an abnormal country run by an army lead, which was intent on promoting its own interest rather than the interest of the beep . and yet i would say that in the last few years, it has been no media that is at tech and the last 10 years to be very precise. what has changed your be for us, you know, you would record from the ninety's. terrorism became a major issue less impact on the eighty's for us than been job the ninety's and crush me from the 2 thousands all the way and then we never had a very good on. so for it, we would, you know,

not react perhaps with force. and even after going nuclear in 1998 to it, even in 2008. india did not react strongly to the moment later. what has changed now is that we have a different bus show of active defense. there's certainly an effort to, to strengthen ourselves from within which means have strong counter infiltration. counterterrorism grades within your move in cost me for instance, to prevent service from coming in. but also a pro active or active defense support to which means you are willing to take the battle across the borders in hot pursuit of the status in 2016. the reacting to really, it was reinforced in 2019 when after the pl walmart deck, the biological a, strikes took place. so now, here was in india, that is, was setting up

a strategic deterrence or the governance against it, or is it the message was that if there was incidents or for a certain scale, big place in deal with, again across the board to india. so for the focus on army, the policy of mounting terrorism, which was a low cost policy now became an expensive business, because now it was clear that if you launch in a deck, the retaliation should be, would be such that you, you could go to water. you could, would have to react, so they were the 2nd cost. and that's certainly spot of the reason that there's been a dramatic drop in cross border terrorism. it's not been eliminated. it's taken on different funds, but there has been a significant drop. and i think that is an achievement of government results to address this question in a clear headed. why do you think the governments were not interesting and

advocating article to 70 when i think um, certainly for the beach it be, it was on the manifesto. it was on the cards and it was certainly a goal to be achieved. but even the b, b a n b, a government could not achieve it in the early of the us and a bunch of these guys because it was in india, a government that was a coalition government. that was a coalition common minimum program of the india, and this was not a priority, but i think that was clarity even in watched by his mind. and uh, and in other lead his mind that once the it would be a majority, it gave the opportunity to have optical, $370.00 a aggregated. and i think it was a decision that was waiting for the moment that a party had a clear majority. and a clear strategy, i think integrating your mortgage mean was a very important move. and more than that,

having the strategy of counterterrorism content information to ensure that off to that optical, 370 moves, they would know blood shit on a large scale. because as you would recall, there was a conversation that if i had to go 370 would be to move, they would be live as a black and english me. but none of that happens because it was well planned well executed. and i think the, by the benefit of hindsight of the last 5 years, certainly a successful policy both in terms of stabilizing the state to jim when crush me. and in terms of giving a clear answer to cross border terrorism. yeah, because i come from the same area and i feel that it has beneficial to the people of crush me. the business is i'm climbing into the infrastructure as has been yet, when are they going to 70 was able to, in the parliament, there was a total opposition from southern section of 50. i think it was

a political conversation and that was a political move because article 370 was more of the move and it was more than just a political move. it was also linked to security foreign policy. and i think it served all those interest me when we finally got it done. and i think now there is a reasonable consensus in the country that it was a good move. and that now we move to the next stage, perhaps of the healing touch. and you're moving crush me to rapidly moving towards stability and normal seat. so that brings me to the next or so after this done parameter. similarly, with the 2nd longest serving pm, a friend is this continued to good for india on the phone and policy point. certainly is, we are now living in an age of a very turbulent were much is changing into, well that is, that are conflicts that are, you know, i'm moving towards

a multi polarity and therefore foreign policy needs to be named. so i think this government has been successful in very nimbly negotiating the world and improving india is have the end stature by mr. more the has the external affairs minister, jason good, who understands the game and plays it very well. and the personal chemistry that the prime minister himself enjoys with discontinued the that's a cut all of the advantage of it that you'll develop. but still chemistry and personal relationships with well leaders and that helps who is with annotated step . now he's representing a 4 trillion dollars economy with a huge kind of pest in the world, in economic terms. so for this as an example, the rest issue relationships in, in what is called the middle east, but the, you, we, but the vid. so there may be, those are some new innovations in,

in policy that the closeness of that relationship pets in the, in multiple moves. and you've said that in diplomats are more confident and the more the why do you feel that they represent the country that is more confident that they represent the country where the leadership is consistent and giving us a message to the, to the world, to the people and they have clear instructions and, and it helps that, you know, and goes on. baba is growing india's half to such that india is voice is heard on the a. hi, dave boots globally by the you're talking about climate or trade, or the global order or the g 20. so i think oh that hands for a clear message to go to the diplomats to act with confidence and to be able to uh, you know, represent the name to that is more confident in one of your opinion. pieces you

wrote about a multiple of what and do you have one thing to be on the board? how much is for them an association good already done that for that was and i think he has and i think good india has because you know, this process has gone on. i would argue, since the ninety's, because 90 is after the soviet union collapsed to be moved from a bipolar world to a uni polar world for the in the us was the on the act and down and somewhere on perhaps 2008. then the us, you need for the moment ended and we are moving towards a new order which might be multiple. and bingo is making the point that in the future as an aspiring power, we would like to be a potent. we wouldn't like a word of it, which slaps his back into being a bipolar what with china and russia outlined against the wrist? or uh, you know, a word bad in his voice is not good. and so i think we have been very active in

terms of it taking the g 20 as an example. that is an organized a is a body which tries to speak for the world in which economics matter, the economic major economies matter and essentially make the point that uh in, in this, uh, uh, well, the way it is going in the future. the major economies like india, need to have a strong se, uh, in the direction in which it as well. so how important are 4 months like big send this to you for the multiple of like, i think they are important. and i think what has happened in this by the people what is that you have new will formulation like big says seal and as i but so before those like i do, you do in, in rest issue and so on the board. so these are on a show based coalition, so they come together in a world where you don't have

a global policemen telling you what to do. some countries come together and if it's the, you know, from conversations on issues breaks, for instance, them together for a conversation on economic issues for the middle of the bible stuff. i mean, it applies that it represented. so i think that is the kind of, uh, what would be the move to uh, the uh, countries will have issue based alliances. some of them the space, some of them will for you to be. and we will question this will order, which is presided over by the united nations, which be field hasn't delivered enough in terms of providing peace since it go to the, to the world. so or done, it is really much, but we don't know which way it's hated. except that we know that india shouldn't have us in the bottom, in this direction. good. now conducts or knowledge. so uh, open about his point of view is which makes us proud of. we never used to have

somebody who would say, who we call a we call them out. is that a deliberate attempt to do that? or it's a personality trait off of uh for them this, this i think, i think it's a boat, it certainly represents the new india which is making its point. yeah. to the world . and it's a confident new india, and therefore he is the voice often of that new india. and therefore he has to make the point about the india as views and it's very difficult about it. absolutely. so sometimes you may need to make the point gently, sometimes, forcefully, sometimes in behind closed doors, sometimes publicly. so i think the, the point needs to be made and the broad, the point that is emerging is that india, which has to be on the high table india, is an important voice. it cannot be not. so the show is called, let's talk about it. where do you see in the, in the next decade?

well, i think the india is moving in a positive direction. this dated the objective of india is to bring prosperity to its people, right? the the want to be a big part of the, developed by that a developing debt by 2047. and what does that mean? that essentially means we need growth. be ongoing at 6 to 8 percent be possibly want to grow and a light bought the 8 to 10 percent and bring prosperity for our people. and our photo policy will be oriented towards leveraging the will. to facilitate this phase of freedom, it will be a peaceful and benign race in asia, as compared to the belligerent today's of china, see me, but it will be something that would be good for the world. and i think good therefore endeavor to get more more partnerships, deeper partnerships, endeavor,

engage, and a might be aligned, we with russia with the best and follows with the board and maximize the economic benefits for itself. but also a bill for sports debility in the world. great, so what are your future plans? well, i've just written one book and i've been talking about it in different florida, and this is the book which included an angry man. and that's right. it's called anger management, and it's been released this year. and it's, it's, it's essentially a story of the india focused on relationship and in a sense, any hostile relationship. but due to the prism of diplomacy or from the eyes of diplomats, not just my experience isn't focused on but also of my 24 produces who uh, high commission. those are investors from india to pakistan from 1947 to 2017. when ever and i hope the right to another, and i'm working as a corporate consultant that move to the private sector. so i'm having

a lot of fun done with that. i'm did it take take you did i did book. well, i to me, i would say about 2 was a day for 4 years and because i'd be to take the book, it's $540.00 pages and it's the amount of movies that i've done in for the i read frontier. exactly. i see. i see you with your, your uh over is much more impressive because you know, each more we would have had a lot of, uh, lots for it and this is going into it. so, but you know, i, i enjoyed the process of writing this book and researching it. of it multiple foot notes, i hope to write another one. and i'm also a distinguished fellow at the observer research foundation. so doing some research in trying to understand as well. now that i'm out of government, i'm at a distance, so it's good to look at the word from

a distance and comment on it. the active list. thank you. and it's the thank you very much, 0 my here and a thank you for watching. joining me next week as we uncover newly in yet another debate and let's talk about it. i'm on if i'm kid would by the there was a time when i started to was abused do obtained flowers divided the continental langford amongst themselves. it was divided as a hunting ground. if we do not unite the corner knives as we come out again, we know that they are those who want the mazda continent to stop and 8, but the mazda clinton, and never be stopped. because the mazda continent must be great, she will only be great on the shore,

does all of us sons and daughters on via the set. all right, so now click on the console, and let, as confessed about, underground east, the mazda, upon the, the russian states. never as one of the most sense community best to him then i'll send, send up the speed the one else calls question about this. even though we will ben in the european union, the kremlin, the media machine, the state on russia scooting and split the ortiz full neck, even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube, the student services for the question,

did you say they requested the just know better place to be is the village in the some most beautiful features. there's a purely anarchist in the sense that there are no authorities within the city. everyone is their own citizen. half the people are here because they have no risk to go. and the other half here because they loved the face and there's nowhere else they'd rather be than here. but i don't, it's are going to explain. you just have to experience last. and by doing that, you have to live here. the dish i have right here in lagrange, this is one of the dining halls. it was a mess all for the other soldiers boot place. you know,

several 100 people have passed through here, either under way, somewhere else or provide safe space to abuse, mean to elderly people, to mentally ill peoples who addicts to children. you know, some cardboard checks, you know, but the cardboard shack is broke up for you. if you just been sleeping under one of the basic rules isn't sylvia. and if you ground, they'll find out you cry and never transition to now of the ninety's. kind of try out the politics of the not just continued all the way all the way for the and of course to go see the crime that i never had a breach and tries to come. and some stability is the power all site the

the nation redundancy and welcome to the season finale of going underground will cost to go around the world from the u. a. by the end of time, he's ready for the year of natal. i'm genocide, almost half the world's population will have had a chance to vote in elections meant to signal they live in democracies, perhaps fullness or vote, as will be the economy. it may no longer be the largest economy by pvp, but crucial for the future. the world will be elections in the usa in november, home to most of the worlds 1000000000 is with over 10 percent of its population to begin poverty. the federal reserve is insisting it's doing a good job. joining me now from.