right after it finally gained independence, the netherlands wage war on its former largest colony with help from the west, a totally different approach team from the soviet union that used to influence in the when to back in an issues but power recognition. so i'm not up to date but came up for 4 years from 1945 to 1949. it was a process where indonesia had declared each independence, but international recognition hadn't been obtained. there was only later after left, his group strengthened in indonesia that the western world started to pay attention . so americans started to enter because after the reconstruction in europe was over the underway, the finally shifted to the far east. and then to indonesia, they saw that potentially indonesia could cancel the service orbit and they didn't one that the stadium right behind me go lower level and kind of know is a greatly reminder of the important role, the soviet union slate. and what so gotten stated as nation building with most goal

stepping in to give a fever of a loan for the stadiums construction. and so i think it's engineers to jakarta, helping indonesia achieve its dream. the friendship between the 2 countries grew even stronger. route closer to so the leader, me get that crew chef regardless of the 2 nations when united by a special on their love for freedom, a number of mutual visits piece. do we for further cooperation with the u. s. s. our supply and in asia with much needed military equipment. in 1962, we opened the zip codes for solid 0 in the news in so via the us and see somebody in symbols, the state uh and so that you know that no one, no for the so somebody in the district didn't deliver it to him that he didn't have them for us in 19 the 69 for the whole, the bustle part, the sort of as humans,

sarah, by the end of the car and his presidency, put upon us through the fast growing ties. but the $99.00 piece brought a whole new chapter to the deepening historic partnership. today in asia is the largest economy in southeast asia and has an increasingly louder voice on the world stage. throughout the years, its relations with russia has been strong, recently reflected by the words off the president to get like, but i'll boil so beyond all who called moscow, a great friend, celebrating it's 17 9th year of independence. any shot is looking to a bright new future, but never forgetting those who stood by it in the past. they got up at the bull reporting from jakarta for our t is always good to have you with us on all the international legs. don't carry out, give us the latest episode of the, with the lowest possible news updates. thanks we need to, in is again to the top of the, the,

the car acceptance. and i'm here to plan with you whatever you do. do not watch my new show seriously. why watch something that's so different whitelisted opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to please or do you have the state department, the c i a weapons makers,

multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead. change and whatever you do. don't want marshall stay main street because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called stretching time. but again, we don't want to watch it because it might just change the way you think. the sometimes it's easy to be a good citizen. you go to work every day, you will pay the law, you vote and elections, you pay your taxes. that's easy enough, right? so what about when you are working for the government? and you are asked to do something that is clearly illegal for the constitutes waste fraud or abuse. well, we would hope that you would blow the whistle, but at the same time, you know that the consequences are serious. the states are high and then you do it any way you're in for a fight, but at least you have the law on your side. now buckle up to the rice. i'm going to

reaku. welcome to the list of lower the . 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 the media focus so much on the senior, most levels of government, that's where many of the most consequential decisions are made that impact our lives. that's where foreign policy and military policy are determined. that's where monetary policy is decided. and it's these policies and other high level government actions that, for the most part, give us the countries that we have. but what most people don't realize or perhaps don't think about is that much of what makes the country run day to day is done at the local and regional levels. think about the local governmental entities that handle food assistance that protect children and the elderly, or that process, retirement assistance or housing subsidies, maybe health care,

even drug treatment programs. those are the people who actually make the government run without them. everything would just grind to a halt is what happens then when a supervisor tells an employee to do something that he or she is not licensed or qualified to do. what happens when the request itself is illegal? really? there's only one answer here. you blow the whistle and if you have to take to the courts, our next guest is in the midst of just such a fight. deanna ratliff was an employee of the alleghany covington, department of social services in the us state of virginia. according to a lawsuit that she recently filed with the allegheny county circuit court, deanna was wrong. we fired from her job and not once, but twice. the 1st time she was fired was for refusing to violate the law by performing work that she was not certified or license to do. she was reinstated by

the state. but then she was fired again in retaliation for her original whistle blowing. so she did exactly what she should have done. she sued. we're very happy that deanna joins us today along with her attorney tommy stroke. thank you both so much for being on the show. thank you for having me. deanna as background for our viewers give us an idea of the kind of work that you were doing for the county and for the state of virginia and tell us what it was that your supervisor wanted you to do. that was so inappropriate. i was the supervisor of virginia department of social services, allegheny county department, and i was a supervisor over benefits, which is the benefits for snap medicaid. and tana, um, when it happened is ard, cps,

r a. p as have left, the facility has been resign one. so our new director came to the agency and because of that we had no cps or a p s workers. and she had asked to supervisors to start filling in where they had no one. so she had asked for me to do all the intake cause i had to go out on 2 different occasions to do 2 different families. and what i did not feel comfortable doing that because i was not trained or certified in to be a cps, or a p s worker. i had several employees under me as her supervisor, and they were all brand new employees. they were still in training to be the benefit workers. and in order to be a full eligible benefit worker,

you have to be certified through the state of virginia. and none of my workers except for 3, were trained and certified the director had asked that i put the new people on to these cases right away. and i had advised her that i could not do that. and she had continually requested that i do that, and as i was terminated, there's been some press coverage of your suit in the local media. and one thing that struck me is that this has to do with 2 very important governmental entities, child protective services, and adult protective services. so we're talking about literally the most vulnerable members of our society, your alleging in your lawsuit that your supervisor repeatedly ordered you to perform services that required certification and training for specific regulations

. you didn't have that certification or training, and the supervisor also routinely directed you to assign newly hired staff members to process benefit applications with no certification training. local investigative journalists have confirmed your version of the story. so you objected to these orders internally and then what were you ignore? what happened next? um, what happened next was it was on a matter of a few weeks where um i was, i was put back on a back burner. um i was taken out of the roles um why wasn't taken out of the role of a supervisor? i was just told that all my employees under me would no longer be under me. so i was still supervisor, but i had no one to supervise um and then it came to everybody was making up things to put against me to give me terminated.

um i had spoke with the director several times asking for a meeting. she refused to give me a meeting. i was brought into her office re before i was terminated, as you tried to write me up on. false accusations do different times on the 3rd time. that's when she fired me. i, as i was in the office with her and the assistant director when she did fire me and the reasons why she fired me are still to this day. i really don't understand why i was terminated. we frequently hear that the life of a whistle blower is a solitary one. and as soon as things become controversial, co workers, friends, sometimes even family members, distance themselves. what's the reaction been to your whistle blowing among your colleagues and also in the broader community prior to the new director coming into

the agency, we had a very close knit family there at the agency. we were all very close. we were all confidence with each other and we had no issues amongst anybody in the facility until the new director came in after that. um several things that have happened um, i've lost friends, i've lost some mentors that i've met along the way. and i've also, it came to a point where i got so depressed once that i was terminated, that i had to be put on medication because of the medication. the doctor put me on, i almost lost my marriage over this. i um they, we had to basically move from the state of virginia just so i could find employment

again. oh wow. well, thank you dan and tony. we're going to take a short break and when we come back, we're going to talk about what a whistle blower can do, not only to protect himself or herself. but what the whistle blower can do to change the entire system. stay to the. 2 2 2 2 ukraine never transitioned out of the ninety's kind of try out the politics of the not discontinued or the old away for the. yeah. and of course, to go see the crime that i never had, a patient tries to come and some stability is the power all site the is no better place to be. is the village in the some those beautiful

features is purely anarchist. in the sense that there are no authorities within the city. everyone is their own citizens. half the people are here because of them the rest to go and the other half here because they loved the place and there's nowhere else they rather be than here. but i don't, it's hard wonder, explain, you just have to experience labs. and by doing that, you have to live here. the dish i have right here in lagrange. this is one of the dining halls. it was a mess all for you know, soldiers boot place. you know, several 100 people have passed through here, either under way, somewhere else or provide safe space to abuse women, to elderly people, to mention the people's who, addicts to children. you know, some cardboard checks, you know, but cardboard shack and broke up for you. you just been sleeping on the dirt. what are the basic rules? isn't sylvia and it keeps ground. you'll find out there's

no end in sight over how you're going to continue to destroy the earth is the case for the madness of the people. i tried to go to the gym, but i'm certainly not ready to fight russia. this is also of soon. this is the 3rd world lunacy re washing press for so the funder line likes to say we have the tools while we just start with stability and business deal. some of the living will not have very close propaganda. you know, a price here in new york. i think we don't know the aftermath any time that you're not allowed to ask questions, you should ask all of the questions. the more questions ask a better. the answer is will be the

welcome back to the whistle blowers. i'm john kerry onto were speaking with deanna ratliff for whistleblower in the us state of virginia and with her attorney. tommy stroker. thanks again for being with us. thank you for having me that you. i'd like to go through the modalities of your whistle blowing. i know from personal experience that a lot of thought goes into these decisions. what was your process? you couldn't really go through your chain of command because it was your chain of command that was the problem. so what did you do? how did you actually blow the whistle? i still follow procedures and went through the chain of command. i went to the board, i went to the regional consultants. i went to the state when i was fired in october, and i called the state and let the state know exactly what was going on. they rehired me. they re hire me and put me on administrative pay and to up on

investigation was fail. and what happened is, i think it was a week to 2 weeks later i got a phone call from one of the people that does our health insurance. and she had told me the, i'm really sorry to do this. i'm going to go ahead and pay the money back into your account for being it taken out of your health insurance. and i said, what are you talking about? and that's when i was informed that i was fired. the 2nd time, the department of social services never told me the 2nd time that i was terminated, i found out through an outside employee that was terminated. so i went through the state, i went through regional consultants, i sent emails, i told them everything that was going on inside the business and you know, i was to terminate it again. so let's talk about that. you are fired and then

you're reinstated. how long were you back at work then before you were fired again and is that when you decided to go to court when they fired you for the 2nd time? yes, when i was fired the 2nd time, that's when i. 2 needed to get legal representation i believe it was in a week to 2 weeks that i was fired a 2nd time. so that happened very quickly. let's, let's talk about the law. do you feel like the law as it stands in virginia right now, affords you a chance at what really is a redress of grievances? of course, there's a whistle blower protection law at the federal level. what statutory support do you have at the state level and what kind of a timeline are you operating under until your students heard and frankly, tommy, you may want to weigh in on this to as an attorney, the laws that we're using is

a whistle blower law that is allowed for local governments and for public employees . however, for ginia is rather well known as not having very many robust laws. the with a fraud and abuse whistleblower protection act allows employees like the inner ratliff to claim retaliation which he has done. but it's only been on the books for a few number of years. the private industry employees just became protected in virginia in july of 2020, under a new state law. and there are just other states that are more concerned, seemingly with the plaintiffs in west of lowers the federal whistle. blowing regimen really regards whether or not federal tax dollars are being wasted in this matter, seemingly regarded

a lot of state tax dollars being wasted. and along with other violations of state law. so there are not, truthfully, there are not a lot of whistle blowers in the state of virginia. there just aren't the laws are not as robust as the other states. but hopefully that can change. and it's people like miss ratliff to make this ripple effects happen. yeah. do you want to comment on that? well, he is right. um. i just felt that the reason why i seek legal representation is because the director that's there now is abusing the system. she um is not following policy procedures and it weighed on me not knowing if our children were safe or if the adults in our community were say, having her in that role. and she did not the same procedure to the point where we lost everybody in adult protective services and child protective services

. they all left the facility because of her and because there was no one there, it did make our community volleyball because she was the director. i'd like to get both of you to comment on this last one. did a beginning with you. what advice would you give somebody considering blowing the whistle on waste, fraud, abuse or illegality? and is there anything that you would do differently? i would not do anything differently. i knew something was going to happen. that's why i made sure i printed off all my text messages between myself and those and higher up with me or email. i protected myself because i knew what she was doing was that right? i would say to anybody out there that wants to be a whistle blower. you may be the only one to do it. you're going to stand alone. if you have a good support system like i do have um,

that's what you need. but if you are the only person standing and you know what you're doing is 100 percent. right. stand alone and tell me from a legal perspective, what advice would you give would be whistle blowers stand by a principal. a lot of times there are laws that also mirror that stands. in other words, if you raise your hand at the workplace, because you're concerned about something that you consider to be unlawful. in most states, in most situations, unemployment, you are protected from retaliation. ms. radcliffe was protected from retaliation. and that's where lossy to know. what can the average person do to encourage our elected officials to enact legislation, or even our regulatory officials at the state and local level to enact new regulations that would protects whistle blowing and truth telling. especially in

light of the fact that what we're talking about here is clearly in the public good . i had a $0.02 on that. one thing is that a just a awareness of who we serve lowered is my experience of doing this for closely 20 years. whistle blowers are not out for a buck. quick one or slow one. not out for that. the reasons that they pursue the matters is because of a wrong and they were harm. and they're not there to try to get rich. whistle blowers want some lights on a situation that was a great concern to them because they felt that the situation was either breaking the law or otherwise harmed others. there's something that needs to be encouraged. now, frown upon. and no time should anyone consider whistle blowers be individuals who are trying to gain the system or cheve some things that they didn't, or they come to the table having been armed. that's what i'd like to say. thank you

. and you deanna. i would, i would agree to what, what he has said i, a lot of people don't think that was, the blowers are harmed, i was, i was mentally armed. i was, i was embarrassed. the day that they terminated me. the 1st time when i opened up the door, i had a police officer standing there to meet me to ask for me out of the building. um, this was the cause, embarrassment to me in front of all my workers. and so it was um, it was a very bad experience and i loved my community. i loved working with my clients and knowing that i was taken out of that, i became a, i went into

a very bad depression. tell me, is there anything from a legal perspective that you would like to cover that we haven't covered? um, sure. so um, let's talk about retaliation. most whistle blowers who are able to pursue anything . pursuit on the basis of retaliation. what is retaliation? retaliation is when you are harm for engaging and what is known as a protected activity. now there are federal statute that say, hey, these things over here. if you do these at the workplace, these are protected. usually these things are subject matters that you can talk about. for instance, the things that you can, i like to say, raise your hand at the workplace. subjects that you're allowed to talk about by raising your hand at the workplace with the chain of command above you with management, with leadership, and not receive any harm or otherwise be retaliated against for doing that. so virtually every statute that protects whistle blowers is a retaliation statute,

meaning that it lists things that are protected at the workplace. that is a employee in gauges in those protective things. but then as subsequently related, they have a claim for this that you it's wrong doing is the protected activity. miss ratliff engaged in the protected activity of reporting wrong doing at the workplace wrongdoings defined by the statute as various violations of law. i think our viewers ought to remember too that there is a generally agreed upon legal definition of whistle blowing and forgive me for sounding like a broken record. but it is bringing to light any evidence of waste, fraud, abuse, illegality, or threats to the public health or public safety whistle blowing is done in the public interest regardless of the high cost. and that is something that,

at every level of government and not just of government, but in society, we should be promoting. thank you, dan and tommy, for shedding light on this case. thank you. i sure think the silver, the interest indicates the kind of integrity and transparency exhibited indiana right. let's fight against illegality has to be a part of our culture. integrity and transparency has to be taught as fundamental values without whistle blowers. impunity becomes the very foundation upon which systems of corruption are built and if that impunity is not demolished all efforts to bring an end to this kind of corruption are in vain. i'd like to thank our guests deanna ratliff and her attorney for being with us today. and thank you to our viewers for joining us for another episode of the whistle blowers i'm john to reactive. please follow me on subsets at john kerry, yahoo! we'll see you next time the. 2 2

the, to take a fresh look around as a life kaleidoscopic, isn't just a shifted reality. distortion by power to division with no real opinions. fixtures designed to simplify will confuse who really wants a better world. and is it just as a chosen few fractured images presented to this 1st? can you see through their illusions, going underground can cause i don't know, it's not this fuzzy face interest you i, you see for under the

guise of evacuation about 50000 people were transported the, the main purpose of this concentration camp in bella rose was doing think prisoners was time for us and use them as a human shield against the advancing. so it'd be it on a given mind from inside the home. but really in coupon you put them in the sky when it was in love with like you can pick the ship your stuff up and stuff like that, but don't want to bring your name here. i'm so sorry i missed cuz that an extra 262 people decided that the nazis use people as biological weapons, leaving them to perish without food. was a motion to the door of small it there for me, if i did think so could if they knew who lives, i knew you should be smart to the can you click the exchange commission waiting there. so that's a huge issue. we a ship for them to move the cam gloucester 10 days or what else made it drastically

defense from of accounts of the 3rd rice watch on t the most go say is ukrainian preparations for when i tap on the coast. can you see a power plants are in full swing of the reports of kias tons, nuclear publication, and the the voice of the global self summit is a platform where we're giving voice to the needs contest duration. so those who has been acknowledged to now have a 100 space take fonts and the 3rd online voice, typical level staff summit with new delhi, this health market. the parents are looking to address a wide array of level challenges and discuss ways to build a sustainable feature. this is where it fall came true for indonesia. on august 17th, 1945 freedom from the dodge colony of rule.