dated in 1963, but some individuals continued to commit acts of cetera. the last was arrested in 1954, almost 10 years of the victory. the the there was a time when i started to was abused to obtain flowers divided the continental line for the amounts themselves. it was divided as a hunting ground. if we do not unite the corner knives as we come out again, we know that they are those who want the mazda continental to stop and aid, but the mazda clinton, and never be stopped, because the mazda continent must be great. she will only be great. on the shore

does all of us sons and daughters on by the sun all day. so now click on the goodwill time slot, and let us confess about underground east to mazda upon the shoulders. let me shoot me an eclipse to do that, even if you will. story ok. scroll metal, the use of solutions stuff, which you see to shift that i need because each time she couldn't remember what collected ftp 2 photocopy slip to discuss the dizzy on this before they have to do is to make sure that you create, excuse that our name is which is 42 stories with disposable green. some the doors not say that the once it's done. it's conflicting the thoughts about pushing of

centuries ago. your forebears name, this country ukraine, or frontier because you're steps blank, europe and asia, the ukrainians, that become frontiersman of an others. so the people who don't will be able to send these will be some of those. whichever i measure them is always, you know, going to try to jump to the most goals they would have been there. but some of the heavily negligence common jo point on the post co case gift to 2nd the we'll have to. okay. and it depends on the, the,

[000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to cross ok. we're all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle, outgoing nato general secretary stilton bird claims, a russian victory in the ukraine. conflict is the biggest risk to the us led military blocks. this is all the more reason russia will achieve its goals in this proxy war, the crossing nato. i'm joined by my guess, ray mcgovern in raleigh. he is a former c. i a analyst in washington. we have wilmer leon. he is a political scientists author and radio talk show host, and in salt lake city,

we crossed to david pine. he is deputy director of national operations for the task force on national and homeland security. all right, gentlemen. crosstalk rules. in fact, that means you can jump any time you want, and i always appreciate re let me quote, the outgoing general general said try and make yourself and where he said a rushing victory and ukraine would change the global system. well, i actually agree with him and i think it wouldn't be a bad idea. go ahead, right. as well. i'm reminded that just 3 weeks ago to chain himself talked about starting back and said that, you know, he dealt with them when he were surprised at the doorway and at that point he showed no signs of dementia. this is the thing i remember about stone. burge, most of all, is his full pod grunt day before the d. u parliament. on let's say, of september 7 last year where he said, you know, the russian. so for the said deal. yeah. you know,

if you stop tries to get you crazy and so we will not in days so it was no room for and they go all way. well is a reset. oh is, and the store, they have a big got, the guy looked the kind of the bag, right? that it is you create a day. so this time we communicate is pretty much the same as last time. well, we all agree where the same to appropriately conditions are right. but the whole thing has to do with russian needing reassurance, right? that ukraine will be neutral and nobody seems willing to even enter chain that notion. so maybe stall bird is showing signs now of incipient, so it may be mid term dementia. well the, the well, but we, it's hard to say with him is an individual that i can clearly say of the as an organization, it's 75. okay. it started a little early in the case of nato, but there is certainly a demented point of view there, wilma, and one of the interesting things it was we had

a pending unofficial thing. nato is preparing for a prototype for a protracted wars. i thought it was a defensive alliance. so i mean they, they, they constantly blur or what their mission is here. i mean, well, if you're defensive alliance, why do you have to expand? no one's explained that to me. well, it's a defense is supposed to be a defense of alliance. i think the n a, a nato is a north atlantic. they are trying to expand into the pacific. they talk about championing human rights, but they somehow decided to invade libya. they can't seem to understand and what their mission truly is. and also it's important understand that really, their mission has their tenure, their mission has passed. and i think the leadership knows that the, that the jig is up. they know that their time is over,

but they're sitting in this vacuum talking to themselves and encouraging themselves so that they can reinforce their own insecurities. i mean, we see, for example, in the washington post, they say that they're trying to trump proof of nato. and in order to prevent trap from doing any damage to nato, or to prevent the elimination of nato itself. well, that right there tells you that they clearly understand that their time is wayne and final point. they talk about, they have to have victory in ukraine. the premise that they're using is because if russia, when they will take over europe, take over the world and then move on to the mon. no. what that demonstrates is that nato itself will collapse, and i don't know how that they can expand geographically, but they don't have any bullets because they're out of weaponry. so who are they

going to fight and what are they gonna fight way strategic stability for 30 years, 3 decades, count them. i was instrumental in that treaty. i was so chief of the soviet our policy bridge and we told kissinger and next and that the russians are really serious about those. they didn't want to spend themselves into oblivion and they were afraid. china was going to steal a march on them. we provided the a for all of her. i the the trust but verify. we provided the verification stuff and and that was in it in scott ritter as word. sort of my my life's work. no stays. okay. now you have scott ritter is life's work that neutral . we know it's a medium range nuclear forces treaty cop. put that last that 30 till years from get out of that. and now as you say, there's a special arrangement where new medium range,

ballistic missiles are going to go with the german or just like the pershing two's way back in the eighty's for god's sake were destroyed them in the eighty's. it surprised the hell out of me that we could agree with the rushers to destroy a whole class of nuclear missile, but we didn't. now we're back to square one or even worse. so i have some words to say about the f sixteens as well, but perhaps go ahead and go ahead and go ahead, go ahead, right, go ahead as well. you know, i was thinking back to when f sixteens or got came to the for a bargain was in japan, but most fell after losing hundreds of thousands of ukrainian troops. right. as a wind screen goes off to tokyo to the g. 7 we're biting is, is that where you last fight and turn, so sullivan says what we're gonna do and how about? yeah, let's give eps exchange. and that's when biden's in house here. so he's gonna let our allies give them metric state. now that's the kind of decision making. i mean, did they check with the pedagogy, the checklist?

but no, no, no, that's we need those up right away. now what's gonna happen when the eps experience get shut down? yep. and the, the other stuff puter is out. all these same people, there's a wellness, the pressure. yeah, we have this a low you blow your mind through the clear weapon. so maybe that's the only day we have now. well, i really was raised, you know, the to, i'll tell it says, well, i'm right. i mean, the, the only, the only way forward for nato visa, the ukraine, is escalation. and what's really, what's at stake, the very existence of ukraine. and as, as ray is pointed out, they entering into the realm of thinking about a new killer war. i mean, this is going into the realm of insanity. go ahead and watch it is. it is already in the realm of insanity in what re points out very, very clearly is there is no strategy here. there is when you just say we were losing, what do we do now? oh, let's give

a map. 16th. there's what is the desired outcome and results. and if the desired outcome end result is the, the do dissolving the russian federation. that's just not going. but right, but we all know that's the goal. we all know that that's, that's just and i want to walk to the moon. but i don't think that that's going to happen anytime soon. and what they're willing to do is risk nuclear annihilation in pursuit of a fantasy, so that the military industrial complex or the mickey met as re, likes to refer to it can generate more revenue now. okay, david, that's a good point in lieu of a strategy which just keep enriching the arms producers. okay. inside the beltway,

so they can buy another house in the hamptons. go ahead. yeah, i mean, the strategy, a big guy is for us to maintain its, uh, its iron grip on, on data, which is really just uh, you know, it's part of, uh, america's liberal empire and consist of, uh, imperial dependencies are being lighted. states, what we need to do here in the us is to transform us back to republic from empire and, and i think president trump is moving, you know, forward in that direction with the plan to restructure nato. hold us troops out of the eastern europe. perhaps even a hand over the david we're getting, we're approaching the bank here. a bit of tough trump is elected on that platform. don't you think they'll in peach him before and all your ration? well, it depends on whether there's, it's a, you know, it's a democrat control house. i mean, if he wins, we're going to, you know, republicans will keep the house. so i don't. okay, well i, i take, i was, i'm being kind of facetious. but i think that they would have someone, lindsey graham would lead, read me the charge, right, gentleman,

i have to jump in here. we're gonna go to a hard break amounts about hard breaks. we'll continue. our discussion on nato was 75 years old. stay with our the welcome back across stock were all things are considered on peter level. to remind you, we're discussing nato at 75 years old. the ok, let's go back to re, obviously, nato is not in the mood. maybe it's incapable of compromise, even if in its own best interest, it's unwilling to compromise. but you know, as they're celebrating in washington, what comes to mind for me or broken promises? and let me in right here,

not one step in east. remember that's 1st one ukrainian neutrality, another lie indivisibility of security. i've already mentioned that on this program here. and of course we all remember the mens process here. so, um, even if there were miraculously a piece feler, why would the russians believe anything coming out of the current administration, particularly considering who is in the, in the oval office? right. those are russian were new for me. uh, those are the initials this most certainly. okay. incapable of reaching an agreement. okay, that's what they use now for the us. and in addition to the 3 you mentioned, i would simply say that not many people know that biden told to chain directly in person on the telephone, on the 30th of december. yes, that's the us, we're not deployed offensive strike muscles and ukraine

a 3 weeks later and you're neva, love with us approach blinker nature. what about that? we're talking about that now. i'm like, yeah, that's that. but forget about that. we have the right to put the opposite side process and you agree, and maybe we're talking about how many would play but so there was another one. and last but not least, of course, most the, there's a lot of the agreement that was made out there in uh, in an east campbell uh, in march, april of 2022, where the initials were on those agreements and bodies. johnson came in from the u . k. and so no. and no agreement when any of these damn russians, we're gonna bite on by it on and we'll give you everything i need to provide. yeah . well, it's all in so you made it very poor choice. but now we see the results of all as well. i mean, i'm, but i'm sure his bank account is uh, benefited enormously and the people around him. i mean,

he's not even the legal president. okay. he's head of the cube regime. well, and what are the interesting things that i've been watching over the years? is you know, we, even at this summit to in washington they're talking about expansion. ok. i it continuing to do so in the balkans a and then going into central asia. i, if i'm not mistaken, an official from armenia was invited to the, to the conference so, but it seems to me that ne toes ambitions are not just as we see it right now. but they want to replace the united nations. we have, there's a rules based order. they have their own sense of, of legality is against international law. it's against international institutions. and this is, this is kind of nato's a, it's a vehicle for the united states maintain, had gemini, go ahead and washington. and as we know with the rise of the shanghai cooperation organization and the operative word,

there is cooperation with the rise of bricks with the rise of the organization of the state health states. the time for this imperialist expansion has ended the folks at nato. they just haven't gotten the memo yet. and because now the ship nato is a militaristic organization. and when you look at the s e o, when you look at bricks, when you look at the shanghai, when you look at the health states, they are operating collectively from an economic perspective. and this takes me quickly back to what i'm one of my favorite films, the godfather, when uh, when, when virgil, the church, the lots on says and tom, he says look, i don't like violence, i'm a business man. blood is expensive. and the united states wants to, and especially things to lindsey graham, spread all the ukrainian blood he can get his hands on. while these other countries are moving beyond that,

starting their own currencies so that they can engage in the best evidence of that is that on the way out of that is just this should ministration is on the way out. and they decide that they'll pick china. now is the bit know why as the enable or as they say a and as the you know, as the blame for all this stuff. and if you look at china and they've already, as david said, called it out as hypocritical. but if you also look very closely at how the world is divided now and india, just having come from a hot summer with food chain, and you'll look at the nato phone. so did anyone notice anything this? think about all those nato folks, all 32 of them. they're all white. you're all like the rest of us. ok. they're all white, right? well, in and many of them are from countries that were the great colonial powers. same

thing. that's exactly right. so the whole world sees that and how we have isolated russia. gimme a break, we have isolated ourselves, and that's is very clear by moti shows that the mosque was very clear by, by this last gash. now as far as data is concerned, and nothing is going to happen in ukraine until after november, when in the us election, it takes place. but then data, it's got a really worry about its longevity and whether it's so has any useful usefulness at all. it might be quite well more. i mean, this is the thing, this is a craving choice that they, that nato is made. you know, it's almost like do or die. it's as ex, essential, but it's a choice. they don't have to make this choice. they can say, well, you know, we should have a new security arrangement that's, that's what needs to be done. that's what russia offered before this all happened, but they can't do it as well. you put it in the context of do or die. i would put it in the context of do or suicide because the,

the united states via nato started the conflict with russia via ukraine. the united states is trying, it's best to start a fight with china. the tie one there, you know, there's an adage on the corner, don't start and nothing won't be met. and they don't seem to understand that. so if you just stop trying to punch the, the adversary in the eye and sit down and have some conversations. maybe we can find them avenue to piece, but as gills got here and says, ask them why they're fighting for, and they'll never tell you the economics of war. it was a david, even though there's a lot of bluster, you know, when you think about what, what military capacity to be. don't we take uh, off the table on nucular capacity, the military's in, in, in nato. we're not that particularly strong, but they're not really well funded. turkey has the biggest army,

they're not getting involved in this at all here. i mean, it's a lot of a bureaucrats in my mind that have really pushed jobs. and you know, they're threatening the global war, but this, but they, they don't really have capacity other than a new killer capacity. go ahead, david. yeah, this absolutely true. i mean, uh the, uh, britain, france and germany each can pro, deploy up to one brigade in eastern europe. yeah. whereas, you know, the us can provide more than that. of course, maybe a couple $100000.00 troops if we, if we were to search. but you know, rusher has uh, 12 combined arms arbys. uh they might have more. yeah that's, that's how much they start out with. and a by triple the size of their, of their ground forces a double this, you know, they increase their military by 50 percent. they increase the military spending by, by a double in their, they're now at a cold war level, so of spending in the sizes of their armed forces. so, you know,

the us in data or are much weaker than it than have been presented in, in a, in a conventional or even just the conventional. and i had a cyber war. i think russian would be victories. i wouldn't, you know, wouldn't think that they, you know, russian troops would drive to the, to the lives channel, but certainly they could take that all the eastern europe without a whole lot of difficulty re we got one minute left here. how will history remember this guy and con, tab and washington this week, as well? hopefully they'll get paid up below the headlines. hopefully they'll know that there's adequate proof. that rusher does not intend to go beyond ukraine, so to speak, the accords in each stumble. in march, april 2022 showed that 13 did stop and then it was double crossed. our case stopped before it took all right or ukraine. so why is it going to go to fall into the english channel? so seldom has there been a case where some,

some serious as so been adequately debunk beforehand. for god's sake, russia did stop. it's not going to stop now. well, the gentlemen were brought out of time, nato doesn't want to stop. that's the problem. i want to take my guess in raleigh, washington in, in salt lake city. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at our d. so you next time remember prospect the the, the eclipse without doing a free pd. what's the story? ok. school level, the use of solutions stuff which i see to shifting. it's because she couldn't. miller well collected,

ftp 2 for could be susceptible to discredit the dizzy on this before they have to do the feature of the theme you create, excuse that are new splits historical stories with disposable cleaning. some the doors not say that the which is done. conflicting the thoughts about the shooting of centuries ago. your forebears name this country ukraine, or frontier because you're steps blank, europe and asia, the ukrainians, that become frontiersman of another story. the people who done will be able to sing useful. this one is which of a high measure them is always, you know, going to jump to the most goals and would have been that much. a lot of the heavily

coleman joe played on the post co pays gift to suck you the crazy stuff on the, the, the united states try new sanctions on russia. that's the best thing. the that's kind of happened to russia because the sanctions on russia, against agriculture, against the other items to o, made russia fetus hurting samsung. so as soon as the culture and now, so the major great export are no longer dependent on the united states and europe, the, the, the,

the in the headlines thrown off the international, the french president and manual background denies personal involvement in the case against telegrams co founder says it's simply a legal not. however, moscow branch at a breach of freedom of speech. the american john liked to expose washington's censorship a wish to speak to. 4 about the prosecution of the telegram theo by paris saying he's being charged for what he has nothing to do. it is a symbolic moment where somebody is clearly being held accountable for things that he didn't do. but that almost certainly is that is going on inside his