the, the, i'm out sooner, tennessee, and welcome back to a brand new season of going underground broadcast to go around the world from the u . a. 276 years ago this week, the french painted naveed was born. his depiction of the royalist honey drop as, as a nation. would you? unless you want bull mirage would make him immortal this week. a front accused of being run back. king macro is at the center of global outrage up to friends captured and imprisoned. 5 older of the russian you, a billionaire see of the messaging up telegram is if to get ahead of things you as billionaire, all the golf facebook create a mock sucker bug responded revealing his company method had been a defective item of u. s. government censorship. he claims the bite and harris administration ordered them to conceal information on public health and the home to buy them. laptops

story we covered on this show with form, a new york mayor, rudy giuliani, back in 2020, both russia with shelters. and this a whistleblower edward snowden, and the u. a. are seeking information about the citizen bureau of joining me now from new jersey is the co publisher, the twitter files, which exposed mass united states cove and censorship award winning during this matter. i. e. b is the best selling author a book, so just hate think why today's media makes us despise one and icons brief. he's a full that contributing as a rolling stone and current co host. the wreckage news bought cost america this week. matt, thanks so much for. finally, coming back on going on, be great, it's been so long. i heard you on your podcast actually saying you are frightened to being on our team. this begins to be on a t, it's an independent production. you can criticize restoral, you like it goes out on the right. i understand it, and i'm not sure everyone here would make that distinction. but i totally understand that distinction. you know, they might have a lot of like number one,

anything like homepage. so he wouldn't. so i think there are a lot of people who wouldn't understand there's a lot of not understanding that's, that's in vogue now in america. let's go, let's get on to misunderstandings. i mean, one minute we're celebrating the release of julian, assign job to use of torture by the british. the next we have met a zack, a bug, claiming that the bible harris administration pressured facebook to break what the 1st amendment gives me. and then the french and what defective kidnapped telegrams 5 l dura visa on bail or something. now, i mean, i things worse now. then when you would, documenting the censorship in the twitter files is often yeah, no, this moment in time, especially the, the arrest and the attention of durham is a paradigm shifting moment. and i think the history is kind of free expression in the west. uh, you know that there been rumors and threats and there been,

there's been a lot of saber rattling in the direction and people like you on musk ever since the passage of the digital services act in europe to the effect of you must comply or else there will be crippling penalties, but the tension aspect of it is something that's completely new coupled with threats by former national security executives like alex under vin here in the states after dresser as reminders who vin mean is actually i think he tweeted out or something just on the news, the dural verbena, the captured by french security forces. a yes. so he's a for a white house official, a former national security council member, former and diplomat. he kind of rose to prominence during the 1st impeachment of donald trump. as a witness against a trump uh in that affair has been uh, you know, permanently involved with the ukraine drama. but she tweeted after door of the rest

of that, you are much better take care essentially that you know, you better watch out after this news because there is a growing appetite for accountability around the world. and you know that, that suggests that it's not just in europe that he's talking about and the bed is what's eye opening. i mean, many people commenting on the fact that western europe is appeared to be suicide. the limits attempt to support washington policy on the proxy war through ukraine. is this the united states behind the scenes of acting to attract the juror of a head of a us election in november? and how would we find that out? it would be very difficult to find out. i've heard so many theories about what actually happened and you know, in the last 3 or 4 days, there are a lot of people who believe that it's specifically connected to the war and ukraine

. that there are issues that the united states military are made or has with communications on telegram. but in the bigger picture, it really doesn't matter. there's a perception issue here, which is that whether he was, you know, arrested because of local french violations, which is what the french government claims. whether it was for following the file, the dsa, as some european officials hinted at before his arrest or whether it was something else. all the exec tech executives have been generally on notice for a while now that they are going to be held accountable in one way or another for the behavior of their own customers. and this is just the, it's a symbolic moment where somebody is clearly being held accountable for things that she didn't do. but that probably almost certainly is,

is going on inside his platform and your colleagues, should i use that? would i go to? there's no longer a monk, steve's journalists don't seem to, i mean the salzburg are families new york times your papers know treating it a bit like a joke. it says 13 years. they did drugs anti establishment streak, so it appears to have gotten them into a fresh round of trouble. and i mean, it's even companion, talked about snowden being and most go up to disclosing classified information. i mean, why do they think it's some kind of joke in the united states that a postman basically cuz that's was drove running telegram. he's like a postman or a post office being detained for what people use the post of his 4 is not incredibly serious. i know i've said i'm, i'm really at the end of my rope trying to explain the total indifference of the national news media here in america and abroad, frankly. i mean, but we,

especially in the united states or we have a very specific free speech tradition. but it's, you know, the most powerful protections for journalists that, that any countries ever had. and it's a core value in the american system. journalists have been raised to protect those values at all costs, even if it's, you know, the rights of somebody, they vehemently disagree with. um, you know, our, our infringed upon, they've always come to that person's defense until donald trump got elected. and suddenly there's, there's been a sea change, even in the business. i grew up in them in the mainstream media. i worked a rolling stone for 15 years. i've written for countless publications here in the states. and there's been just this amazing shift in the way people look at free speech. they, they, they seem to think it's not going to ever, you know,

come to their door. these problems wouldn't actually jernace journalists historically are going to be the 1st in line to encounter problems when you know the hammer finally comes down. and they just don't seem to get and you single out in your latest subs deck and p r politico, the bbc state or in bbc which is already at the center of students, the sexual allegations against children actually. but it was really is when it goes to the bbc as rolling their eyes up allegations that now turn out to be true. because zocker with a method of old people appears to be frightened. as frightened as the boss of rumble off to durham detention in front. yeah. and and the significance of sucker burges letter and there are a lot of people who been here heavily critical of mark soccer bird for a variety of reasons over the years. but uh, on monday he put out a letter, it was

a letter to the judiciary committee chairman a jim jordan here in the states, essentially saying 2 big things. number one, i was pressure to sensor by the, by the administration, use that word sensor and number 2, uh the f b i let us lead facebook and mehta to believe that a story involving hunter biden and briggs. my was russians this information and essentially the, the, the company avoided or demoted that story as a result of that with the crucial part of that letter, which is use of the word sensor. because you know, i, and this is, this goes back to reporting that i've done from the twitter files. i kept using that word because in my mind, whenever the, the government is working with a media, distributers distributor, to suppress information, as they did in the case of a 100, by the story that censorship,

one fact checked after another and kept saying that was false. this was not censorship, this was just communication between the government and private pro private companies exercising their free 1st amendment rights to free speech. uh, even after e mail surface, where the white house was saying things to meadow like we would like you to get moving on removing of a post by our kid junior asap. they still wouldn't use the word. now they must use the word i think they have to because you know, somebody like sucker bird, it's clear that he at least perceived this activity as, as pressure sensor. and so what else could it possibly be and to be paid? the significance of this is the us constitution says the government cannot planned on free speech so well. facebook is allowed to collab down and free speech cons if it becomes entwined with the government. so how quickly can something be moved to

indict the biden harris administration and the previous trump administration, presumably as regards the violation of the 1st amendment to the us constitution as well, it would have would have to be legislation for 1st. i mean, well, you wouldn't need legislation that would need to be a court case or needs to be assumed. it would probably have to be resolved civilly . there is one that's on the already in existence and will probably work its way back to the supreme court. it's called mercy. the missouri, one of the primary plaintiffs is robert f. kennedy junior. who is the person that mark sucker read was referring to when i was one of the people when he was talked about being pressure to sensor. um, you know, we obviously do have the 1st amendment which has a very different conception speech rights than europe. those are ideas that speech rights are inherent. people are born with them and the government's role is to

protect those rights to prevent other people from infringing on them. it does not have a role in cleaning up the information of landscape. it does not have a role in policing misinformation. that is not how things are designed to under the us constitution. in europe, for instance, they have hate speech was the, the concept is the rights flow from the government. we see it another way. it would be interesting to see a legal challenge. now that is dr. burke has made the admission because it's just such a powerful word to use and what i think it would change, public perception about and case that goes forward. which is why you said it was good news, no matter how bad it is for dura, presumably are you on musk visiting west in your any time? soon? does it also show how different the world we live in is venezuela cooling, producer of to be released? russia currently blocking rumble upon which the id channel of this program goes out

and on rumble at the same time as the rusher in the u. a desperately trying to ask about the citizen and talking about free speech is a whole thing in flux with western europe, just this black black coat area globally as the place. no one should go to right now. oh, yes. so i would say so. absolutely. because historically, no matter what went on in the rest of the world, and in terms of free speech, the united states was always more or less of a fierce protector of those rights. at least at least nominally. and in pressured, the europeans to at least pay lip service or, or to the idea of free expression. its laws were never as powerful. the protections were never as powerful in western european countries as they are in the states. but

at least there was the perception that people could say more or less, whatever they wanted. as long as it was within reason. if the united states goes the way of other autocracies around the world, you know what i was in russia when the speech landscape changed significantly from me. you know, early nineties to the 2, thousands one, those changes happened. they, they very seldom go back. i mean, that's one of the things that people that appreciate map. we'll get back to this about the abl supper you the more from the award winning journalist co publisher, the to the files and fullness contributing editor, rolling stone after his break, the, [000:00:00;00]

the on the wrong one, i would show same wrong just don't

you have to shape house because after kids and engagement equals the trail, when so many find themselves world support, we choose to look for common ground, the the welcome back to going on the right. now i'm still here with the award winning trying lisco publisher the to the files and because of america this week met you be math and you up did you when you were talking about russian censorship and things not going back go on. because if people i know to know that you spend so much time in russian and that you speak russian and you, uh, you know, about rush or the evil evil rush or is, is known and nato countries that you know, i don't know but evil. i mean, i, i but i did live in russia for 11 years, this big russian, i still follow the news russian. i read russian news. um and you know, i was friends with a lot of russian reporters in the ninety's of some, you know,

some great reporters who taught me a lot of how to do this job. and it's not just there, but really anywhere around the world when the speech landscape changes, it's just very difficult to get those rights back. a, it almost seems to virginia never really goes off what back in the bottle it's so i think people in america don't appreciate that because we've never really had this situation, at least not in the memory of you know, currently living americans. if you go back to the say, the palmer raids and the twenties and some, you know, the l. e and, and so the manufacturing consent, how much would the palace hotel it, terry? and uh, idea then, uh, the, the vin followed the palmer raids and mccarthy is right, but we didn't, we didn't have the kind of direct control over media distribution and content that the, they're able to do. now, it was much more subtle even, you know,

we were so subtle that people who worked in the media their whole lives like um, you know, my father myself. i mean, we didn't see it. for the most part, we understood that it was there, but it wasn't like people were coming in with a red pencil telling you not to write this or that it was just if you were the wrong kind of person, you didn't get promoted. but yes, it's what's going on now is just is much more insidious and much more threatening to the long term outlook for free expression. and i do want to get to the twitter files and remind people about that. but what is it exactly? they want to sense and most abiding, there's administration. i mean, people talked about tech talk because of what it was revealing about the gods of genocide. they're obviously in west, in your mess, censorship of anything on ukraine. i mean, that's why rumble what bands in france way back and or to you of course, was banned because west and your ukraine. very important have gone as

a very important what other issues is it about the stepping trump from winning the presidency? or certainly i think stopping from from winning the presidency is one of the reasons well, i think this started this movement towards censorship in the states really began with rex it in the election of donald trump. that's when we started to see new organizations like the global engagement center, which is the wing of the state department devoted to counter messaging. these are government institutions that are looking at the media landscape here in the states and worrying about the impact of it worldwide. so where we're used to do counter messaging against isis, now we do it against populace movements here at home. so clearly they are very worried about the ukraine news. i mean, you can't get any news about you crime. most americans have no idea what's going on

with that more because there's no reliable source of news is real clearly they, they're not loving the fact that there are so many images coming out of regardless strip. but they were able to successfully suppress. most of the protests that happened at the democratic national convention last week, even though you can see in my line they weren't on television. that's for sure. so, um, i think it's a combination of those things. it's foreign policy initiatives, but clearly also they, they do not. they want to be able to shape domestic political opinion about a variety of things from elections to cove. it to other things. i'm sure it was a dismay of trump and bricks it because i mean, truly in the southern she was on this program to hear about google and to the obama administration in the close ties with silicon valley. back then, just before trump. oh god absolutely look. even before, even before, were 2 weeks appeared, there were close ties between the national security apparatus here and in the

states. um, and all these tech platforms. uh, you know, tens of thousands of national security letters going out, getting information about the users of tech platforms, intelligence about what their media habits are. but there was a new stage in the evolution of some of these government programs. and this is part of what we covered, and that's what our files, where they, they started to build drop receives in the state department in the f, b i a and in the pentagon that they start to shift them. they had once been kind of counter terrorist organizations. and now we're being focused in word on domestic speech in a, in a very blunt and direct way that is new that, that may have been going on just to a degree with the a sergeant student, but that was kind of isolated. this is now an organized major part of

the, you know, sort of military contracting world. they're building out this, this keep this capacity and it's not just for a couple of actors. so if trump wins and this time around and actually drain some of the swamp rather than um, creating a more swamp life with our f k junior enjoys he gathered me all the rest of them. uh, does that mean something new or bugs? the whole trial will be required for all these officials with the, i mean you just mentioned so many agencies just homeland security ca pentagon, and a say there must be these low level personnel and all of them a cooperating and violations of the us constitution. yes, i would say um, there are an awful lot of people who are violating at least the spirit if not the letter of law. i mean that's why we're, we're beginning to see more the whistle blowers come forward from the national

security apparatus you just mentioned. but tulsa gabbert, uh, it just came out a couple of weeks ago that uh, she's been put on what they call the quiet skies list here in the states. uh, and uh, selected for what they call special mission coverage. so she had trios of air marshals following her on every flight that she took a and even after that story got out, they continue doing it. so i think that's illegal if and when there are here ends about that there, there are probably going to be consequences for whoever made those decisions. but there's just a whole speed of things that since the beginning of since 911, really the, you know, from drone assassination, to domestic surveillance. a lot of these programs are just not legal, but they exist in this space that the government is chosen to say exist beyond the reach of domestic law. and you know, it will be, i think we will need to have some kind of a nor

a bridge style commission to go through it all. but it's good if we ever get to that point. but it will take a long time. but some i'd say to us the gap is the backing of the guys a genocide to make her own and put her on a no flies list. actually, what happened to you after read off to you testified in congress to jim jordan next week. i think it was the guy who to talk about except the lesson to this week. the . i understand you were targeted, but you're not on a no fly list. you can you can visit us and do by no, no, no, no, no fly list. um, you know, there might be other lists that i'm on or not. who knows, who knows you in a while and was testifying to the hospitalization of government committee. mean it's all around it. i'm testifying to the house weapon ization of government committee as i was doing that the iris visit in my house in new jersey. and i don't have tax problems actually, the government owes me money. and so i came home after testifying and there was

a note that have been left to my door and subsequently they investigated that there was actually a policy change as a result, as a result of that incident. but i thought it was supposed our gauge what the c i a then is a kind of go to the iris to harass people. the treasury department agreed to drastically reduce they say the number of home visits that the, that ira i r s agents will conduct going forward. so i guess that's a good thing, but um, you know, it, it certainly felt a little intimidating after one and who knows how many of those things are going on . you know, we're going undergraduate degree like, 1000000000 is so it's all good here. i am. sure, he made how terrible it is and defending 5 elder of you said, and here i am, i have had to defend you unless you worked with you said must cause prove to be very disappointing on free speech. why would you say that about the person who has

liberated the world after what you revealed intuitive files is madison to ship? you know, you know, unless it is done. so, i mean, obviously there is some things on palestine. he's been accused of particularly in his friendship and netanyahu, but he's being the great all the goc fuel overload, as me as well. look at one of the reasons i've been relatively muted in, you know, speaking about your mosque is because i'm always going to be grateful to, to him for doing, taking the unprecedented step of opening up twitters internal files to journalists . i mean, it could have been, me, could have been any report or that was something that's never happened in american history. and we learned a lot about all sorts of sorted things that were going on that we would never have done without that move of his. so that's the most in my mind um, but at the same time he elected to a sort of the amplified any links from the sites that i happen to use,

which is concepts deck. so even as i was doing the twitter files i was being de amplified on twitter and i'm still being be able to buy on twitter. so i can't exactly see you know that. oh yeah i do. i do know that for sure. yeah, yeah, i mean they, they told me i was at the beginning, they may deny it now. but if you just look at the traffic numbers it's, it's nowhere near the same. but i haven't, i'm not particularly worried about that. i think in the, in the larger scheme of things, you know, call them up as a re amplifier. i mean, as i'm dead because of because i, i sided with sub stacking this dispute of is was of stuck. so you know, if you look, it's unfortunate. i, i actually think it's a misunderstanding. i wish we could sit down and talk because i don't think he understands my position on the whole thing. but you know, he's a private owner. it's his company. he can do what he wants. and i still thinking

the larger scheme of things, even if he is, you know, todd going the levels of a, you know, attention for this issue over that issue. that's still a very different thing than what was going on under the predecessor organization. which was, you know, this active, intense constant interaction with the d h s the a, b i. and you know, the, the state department not you know that as a whole new different level of censorship that davey. thank you. thank so much from . yeah, that's it for the show. continued condolences to those very by uga. you as you on genocide here in west asia will be devoting mondays program to it when we challenge israel's former investor to the usa, down the island until then keep in touch with my social media. if it's so expensive in your country and how do i channel going on? the run tv on rumbled dot com to let you know the episodes of going underground team under

the the the,

[000:00:00;00] the headlines right now if you want to take at least 5 civilians are killed and many more wounded in the russian border region of belt or p f shells, residential buildings with plus the bottoms this confirmed by the local government . the law moscow says it as a cut off key ukrainian supply route in its own boss as washington down plays russian and strategic advance protocol. as being in peace activist is arrested at her home by british police reportedly over content she posted online. we discussed the issue with british parliamentarian george down to print and he is not yet