the, the, i'm actually in or tennessee, and welcome back to a brand new season of going underground broke us to go around the world from the u . a 276 years ago this week, the french painted, the beat was born. his depiction of the royalist honey drop is as a nation of john. let's jump on. the raj would make him immortal this week. a frantic, used to being run by king macro is at the center of global outrage up to friends captured and imprisoned. 5 elder of the russian, you a billionaire sea of the messaging up telegram as if to get ahead of things you as millionaire all the golf, facebook create a mock sucker bug responded by revealing his company. meta had been a defective of u. s. government censorship. he claims the biden harris administration ordered him

to conceal information on public health and the home to abide. laptops story we covered on this show would form a new york mayor, rudy giuliani, back in 2020, both russia with shelters and this a whistleblower edward snowden. and the you a, are seeking information about the citizen bureau of joining me now from new jersey is the co publisher, the truth of files which exposed mess united states. cobra tends to ship award winning during this month. i. e. b is the best selling author of books, so just hate think why today's media makes us despise one and icons brief. he's a full that contributing as a rolling stone and current co host for the record and use both cost america this week. now thanks so much for finally coming back on going underground. it's been so long. i heard you on your board costs actually saying you are frightened to being on a t. this happens to be on the dates of independent production. you can criticize restoral, you like it goes out on the right. i understand it and that i'm not sure everyone

here would make that distinction. but i totally understand that distinction. you know, they might have a lot of like number one that you think mike pompeo, who wouldn't i think there are a lot of people who wouldn't understand there's a lot of not understanding that's, that's in vogue now in america. let's go, let's get on to misunderstandings. i mean, one minute we're celebrating the release of julian, assign job to years of torture by the british. the next we have met a zach, a bug claiming that the bible harris administration pressured facebook to break what the 1st amendment gives me. and then the friendship. what defective kidnapped telegrams 5 l dura visa on bail or something. now, i mean things worse now. then when you would documenting the censorship in the twitter files. yeah. as of today. yeah, know this moment in time, especially the, the arrest and the attention of durham is a paradigm shifting moment. and i think the history is kind of free expression in

the west. uh, you know that there been rumors and threats and there were been there's been a lot of saber rattling in the direction and people like you on musk ever since the passage of the digital services act in europe to the effect of you must comply or else there will be crippling penalties, but the detention aspect of it is something that's completely new coupled with threats by former national security executives like alexander vin, here in the states, after dresser as reminders who vin is actually i think he tweeted out or something just on the news, the durham of it being captured by french security forces a yes, so he's a for a white house official, a former national security council member of former diplomat. he kind of rose to prominence during the 1st impeachment of donald trump as a witness against a trump. uh in that affair has been uh, you know,

permanently involved with the ukraine drama. what she tweeted after door of the arrest that you are most better take care essentially that the, you know, you better watch out a after this news because there is a growing appetite for accountability around the world. and, you know, that suggests that it's not just in europe that he's talking about and the bed is what's eye opening. i mean, many people commenting on the fact that western europe is appeared to be suicidal in its attempt to support washington policy on the proxy war through ukraine. is this the united states behind the scenes of acting to attract the juror of a head of a us election in november? and how would we find that out? that you'd be very difficult to find out? i've heard so many theories about what actually happened and you know,

in the last 3 or 4 days, there are a lot of people who believe that it's specifically connected to the war and ukraine . that there are issues that the united states military or middle has with communications on telegram. but in the bigger picture it, it really doesn't matter. there's a perception issue here, which is that whether he was, you know, arrested because of local french violations, which is what the french government claims. whether it was for following a foul, the dsa, as some european officials hinted at before his arrest. or whether it was something else, all the exec tech executives have been generally on notice for a while now that they are going to be held accountable in one way or another for the behavior of their own customers. and this is just the, it's a symbolic moment where somebody is clearly being held accountable for

things that she didn't do. but that probably almost certainly is, is going on inside his platform and your colleagues. should i use that word? i don't know. there's no wonder among steve's journalists don't seem to, i mean the salzburg or families new york times your paper of note treating it a bit like a joke. it says 13 is they the drugs anti establishment streak. so it appears to have gotten them into a fresh round of trouble. and i mean, even compare, they talked about snowden being and most go up to disclosing class divided from it . i mean, why do they think it's some kind of joke in the united states that a postman basically because that's was due or running telegram is like a postman or a post office being detained for what people use the post office for is not incredibly serious or no action i'm, i'm really at the end of my rope trying to explain the total indifference of the

national news media here in america and abroad, frankly. i mean, but we, especially in the united states or we have a very specific free speech tradition. but it's, you know, the most powerful protections for journalists that, that any country is ever had. and it's a core value in the american system. journalists have been raised to protect those values at all costs, even if you know the rights of somebody, they generally disagree with. you know, our, our infringed upon. they've always come to that person's defense until donald trump got elected. and suddenly there's, there's been a sea change, even in the business. i grew up with them in the mainstream media. i worked a rolling stone for 15 years. i've written for countless publications here in the states. and there's been just this amazing shift in the way people look at free

speech. they, they, they seem to think it's not going to ever, you know, come to their door, these problems when it actually jernace journalists historically, are going to be the 1st in line to encounter problems when you know, the hammer finally comes down. and they just don't seem to get a new single out in your latest sub stack and p r politico the b b. c state when bbc, which is already at the center of storms of sexual allegations against children actually . but it was really is when it goes to the bbc as rolling their eyes, a allegations that now turn out to be true. because zonker with the meta of old people appears to be frightened as frightened as the boss of rumble off to durham detention in front. yeah, and, and the significance of soccer birds letter and there are

a lot of people who been here heavily critical of mark soccer bird for a variety of reasons over the years. but on monday he put out a letter. it was a letter to the judiciary committee chairman, jim jordan here in the states, essentially saying 2 big things. number one, i was pressure to sensor by the, by the administration. use that word sensor a number to the f b. i let us lead facebook and mehta to believe that a story involving hunter button and briggs my was russian, this information and essentially the, the, the company avoided or demoted that story. as a result of that, with the crucial part of the letter, which is use of the word sensor because you know, i, and this is, this goes back to reporting that i've done from the twitter files. i kept using that word because in my mind, whenever the, the government is working with the media distributors, distributor,

to suppress information as they did in the case of a 100, by the story that censorship one's back checked after and other caps. thing that was false, this was not censorship, this was just communication between the government and private pro private companies exercising their free 1st amendment rights to free speech. uh, even after e mail surface, where the white house was saying things to meadow like we would like to to get moving on removing of a post by our kid junior asap. they still wouldn't use the word. now they must use the word i think they have to because you know, somebody like sucker bird, it's clear that he at least perceived this activity as, as pressure sensor. and so what else could it possibly be and to be paid? the significance of this is the us constitution says the government cannot clam to on own free speech. so well, facebook is allowed to collab down and free speech. it cons if it becomes entwined

with the government. so how quickly can something be moved to indict the bible harris administration and the previous trumpet business stretched, and presumably as regards the violation of the 1st amendment to the us constitution as well, it would, would have to be legislation for 1st. i mean, well, you wouldn't need legislation that would need to be a court case or need to be assumed. it would probably have to be resolve civilly. there is one that's on the already in existence and will probably work its way back to the supreme court. it's called mercy. the missouri, one of the primary plaintiffs is robert f. kennedy junior, who is the person that marks i can read was referring to when i was one of the people when he was talked about being pressure to sensor. um, you know, we obviously do have the 1st amendment which has a very different conception speech rights than europe. those are ideas that speech

rates are inherent. people are born with them and the government's role is to protect those rights to prevent other people from infringing on them. it does not have a role in cleaning up the information of landscape. it does not have a role in policing misinformation. that is not how things are designed to under the us constitution. in europe, for instance, they have hate speech laws. the concept is the rights flow from the government. we see it another way. it would be interesting to see a legal challenge. now that is dr. burke has made the admission because it's just such a powerful word to use and it was, i think it would change public perception about any case that goes forward. which is why you said it was good news, no matter how bad it is. but during presumably or you on musk visiting west in your any time, soon, does it also show how different the world we live in is venezuela cooling,

producer of to be released? russia currently blocking rumble upon which the id channel of this program goes out . and on rumble, at the same time as russia in the u. a desperately trying to ask about the citizen and talking about free speech is a whole thing in flux with western europe, just this black black coat area, globally as the place. no one should go to right now. yes, so i would say so absolutely, because historically, no matter what went on in the rest of the world. and in terms of free speech, the united states was always more or less of a fierce protector of those rights to at least at least nominally. and in pressured um the europeans to at least pay lip service or, or to the idea of free expression. it's the laws were never as powerful. the

protections were never as powerful in western european countries as they are in the states. but at least there was the perception that people could say more or less whatever they wanted. as long as it was within reason. if the united states goes the way of other autocracies around the world, you know what i was in russia when the speech landscape changed significantly and from the, you know, early nineties to the 2, thousands. when those changes happened they, they very seldom go back. i mean, that's one of the things that people that appreciate math will get back to this about diabetes. stop you. the more from the award winning journalist co publisher the to the files and fullness contributing editor of rolling stone up in his break the

valley. her mother says the store, okay. the model girl that i got you, no problem seem to them out of the know nothing. 30 mission guys side of the drive i showed my brother through he was sudden too big of a low so now i never looked at searches as being saved. well i guess i lost my list. that's the outcome of chicago. police is a big gang of chicago, is why you get photos. i believe you really think your life as another crime, same. another one could have been a doctor or nurse could have been the next president. we can't keep losing people out here. the

welcome back to going on the right. now i'm still here with the award winning trying lisco publisher to the, to the files and because of america this week met you be math and you have did you, when you were talking about russian censorship and things not going back go on. because if people i know to know that you spend so much time in russian and that you speak russian and you, uh, you know, about russia, the evil evil rush or is, is known and nato countries. you know, i don't know but evil. i mean, i, i did live in russia for 11 years. i speak russian, i still follow the news russian. i read russian news. um and you know, i was friends with a lot of russian reporters in the ninety's of some, you know, some great reporters who taught me a lot of how to do this job. and uh, yeah, not just there, but really anywhere around the world when the speech landscape changes, it's just very difficult to get those rights back and that it almost seems to the virginia never really goes off what back in the bottle it's so i think people in

america don't appreciate that because we've never really had a situation at least not in the memory of you know, currently living americans. if you go back to the say, the palmer raids in the twenty's and some, you know, the l, e. and, and so the manufacturing concept, how much would the palace hotel, italian idea then the then the then followed, the palmer rates and mccarthy is right. but we didn't, we didn't have the kind of direct control over media distribution and content that they're able to do. now, it was much more subtle even, you know, we were so subtle that people who worked in the media their whole lives like um, you know, my father myself. i mean, we didn't see it. for the most part, we understood that it was there, but it wasn't like people were coming in with a red pencil telling you not to write this or that it was just if you were the wrong kind of person, you didn't get promoted. uh what, yes. what's going on now is just as much more insidious and much more

threatening to the long term outlook for free expression. and i do want to get to the, to the files and remind people about that. but what is it exactly? they want to sense and most abiding harris administration. i mean, people talked about tech talk because of what it was revealing about the guise of genocide. they're obviously in west, in your, at mass censorship of anything on ukraine. i mean that's why rumble were banned in france. way back and or to you of course was banned because the west and your ukraine very important hand gun as a very important what other issues is it about stopping trump from winning the presidency? a certain way, i think stopping from from winning the presidency is one of the reasons i think this started this movement towards censorship in the states really began with rex it in the election of donald trump. that's when we started to see

new organizations like the global engagement center, which is the wing of the state department devoted to counter messaging. these are government institutions that are looking at the media landscapes here in the states and worrying about the impact of it worldwide. so where we're used to do counter messaging against isis, now we do it against populace movements here at home. so clearly they are very worried about the ukraine news. i mean, you can't get any news about you crime. most americans have no idea what's going on with that more because there's no reliable source of news is real clearly they, they're not loving. um the fact that there are so many images coming out of regardless stripped, but they were able to successfully suppress most of the protests that happened at the democratic national convention last week, even though you could see my line, they weren't on television. that's for sure. so um, i think it's

a combination of those things. it's foreign policy initiatives, but clearly also they, they do not. they want to be able to shape domestic political opinion about a variety of things from elections to cobra, to other things. i'm sure it was a dismay of trump and bricks it because yeah, i mean, julian essentials on this program to hear about google and the obama administration in the close ties with silicon valley. a back then, just before trump or. oh yeah, absolutely look, even before, even before were 2 weeks appeared, there were close times between the national security apparatus here and in the states and all these tech platforms. uh, you know, tens of thousands of national security letters going out, getting information about the users of tech platforms, intelligence about what their media habits are. but there was a new stage in the evolution of some of these government programs. and this is part

of what we aren't covered and that's what her files, where they, they started to build your offices in the state department and the f b, i a, an independent gone that they start to shift them. they had once been kind of counter terrorist organizations, and now we're being focused inward, on domestic speech, in a, in a very sort of blunt and direct way that is new that, that may have been going on just to a degree with the a sergeant student, but that was kind of isolated and this is no and organized major part of the, you know, sort of military contracting world. they're building out this, this get this capacity. and it's not just for a couple of actors. so if trump wins and this time around and actually drain some of the swamp, rather than creating a more swamp life with our f k junior mentors,

he gathered all the rest of them. uh, does that mean something new or bugs? the whole trial will be required for all these officials with the i mean you just mentioned so many agencies, da, just homeland security ca, pentagon, and a say there must be these low level personnel and all of them incorporating and violations of the us constitution. yes, i would say um, there are an awful lot of people who are violating at least the spirit if not the letter of law. i mean that's why we're, we're beginning to see more the whistle blowers come forward from the national security apparatus you just mentioned. but tulsa gabbert, uh, it just came out a couple of weeks ago that uh, she's been put on what they call the quiet skies list here in the states. uh, and uh, selected for what they call special mission coverage. so she had trios of air marshals following her on every flight that she took a and even after that story got out,

they continued doing it. so i think that's illegal if and when there are here ends about that there, there are probably going to be consequences for whoever made those decisions. but there's just a whole speed of things that since the beginning of since 911 really yeah. from drone assassination, to domestic surveillance. a lot of these programs are just not legal, but they exist in this space that the government is chosen to say exist beyond the reach of domestic law. and you know, it will be, i think we will need to have some kind of a nor a bridge style commission to go through it all. but it's good if we ever get to that point. but it will take a long time. but some i'd say to us together, is it back in the guise of genocide to make her own and put it really no flies list to actually what happened to you after read off to you testified in congress to jim jordan. next i think it was the guy who. ready talking about sent the lesson to

this we, you, i understand you were targeted, but you're not on a no fly list. you can, you can visit us and do by no, no, no, no, no fly list. um, you know, there might be other lists that i'm on and who knows, you know, while i was testifying uh to uh, the hospitalization of government committee meet solar, i think i'm testifying to the house weapon ization of government committee as i was doing that the iris visit in my house in new jersey, and i don't have tax problems actually, the government owes me money. and so i came home after testifying and there was a note that have been left to my door. and subsequently they investigated that. there was actually a policy change as a result, as a result of that incident, but i thought it was supposed okay what the c i a then as a con order the i a risk to harass people. and the treasury department agreed to drastically reduce they say the number of home visits that the,

that i r r s agents will conduct going forward. so i guess that's a good thing, but um, you know, it, it certainly felt a little intimidating afterwards. and who knows how many of those things are going on. you know, we're going undergraduate degree like, 1000000000 is so it's all good here. i am talking about how terrible it is and defending 5 elder of uh, you said in here i am. i have had to defend the loan was who you worked with, you said must because prove to be very disappointing on free speech. why would you say that about the person who has liberated the world after what you reveal from the, to a deposit method to ship a, you know, you unless, cuz then so, i mean obviously there is some things on palestine. he's been accused of particularly in his friendship and netanyahu, but he's being the great all the goc fuel overlord, as me as well, look at us. one of the reasons i've been relatively muted in, you know,

speaking about your mosque is because i'm always going to be grateful to, to him for doing, taking the unprecedented step of opening up twitters internal files to journalists . i mean, it could have been me, it could have been any report or that was something that's never happened in american history. and we learned a lot about all sorts of sort of the things that were going on that we would never have done without that move of his. so that's most in my mind. um, but at the same time he oh, elected to a sort of the amplified any links from the site that i happened to use, which is concepts that so even as i was doing the twitter files, i was being d amplified on twitter and i'm still being the amplified on twitter, so i can't exactly see you know that. oh yeah i do. i do know that for sure. yeah, yeah, i mean they, they told me i was at the beginning, they may deny it now. but if you just look at the traffic numbers it's,

it's nowhere near the same. but i haven't, i'm not particularly worried about that. i think in the, in the larger scheme of things, you know, call them up as a re amplify you. i mean, as i'm dead because of because i i sided with sub stacking. this dispute of is was of stuck. so i know it's buick, it's unfortunate i, i actually think it's a misunderstanding. i wish we could sit down and talk because i don't think he understands my position on the whole thing. but you know, he's a private owner, it's his company. he can do what he wants a and i still thinking the larger scheme of things, even if he is, you know, todd going the levels of a, you know, attention for this issue over that issue. that's still a very different thing than what was going on in the predecessor organization, which was, you know, this active, intense constant interaction with the, just the f b i. and, you know, the, the state department, i know that as a whole,

new, different level of censorship. that davey thank you. thank so much from. yeah. that's it for the show. continued condolences to those very by you gay you as you, i'm genocide here in west asia will be devoting monday's program to it when we challenge israel's former investor to the usa, down the island until then keep in touch with my social media of it. so i'll send to you a country and i to a channel going under warranty on rumble dot com to let you know the episodes. i'm going underground team under the the,

i look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except we're said shorter is that conflict with the 1st law show your mind and justification for should be very careful about our personal intelligence. and the point obviously, is to make a trust rather than see it. the various jobs, i mean with the artificial intelligence we have summoning the theme in the a robot must protect this phone. existence is alexis, the

most people i know they laser 8 hour job and go home and relax. but i have about 3 or 4 more hours to go. so i just keep my clothes, change my clothes, the 1st job, go to the 2nd and this keeps and keeps me from wanting to go home. what's the book about this town? oh, well it is free to shoot you a piece of mailbox it was, it was um, oh yeah, i have listen to some of that one with you. if you didn't have to maybe work is hard to get by.