the, the in most cases whistle blowing is very direct. the c, i a, is torture. it's prisoners with banks or laundering money. the south african police are corrupt. whistle blower comes forward makes his or her revelation. and the story moves forward from there. but what happens when the whistle blowers, revelations, are so complicated that even govern mental representatives, just walk away from what happens when they say, look, we don't understand this, the public one understand that. so maybe we should just pretend that it's not happening. that's when you double down and make even more noise. i'm john kerry. ok, welcome to the whistle blowers the . 2 2 2 2 2 2 taxes are complicated for most americans. it's not unusual for

a normal american working a normal job to have a tax return that stretches to more than $100.00 pages. mine certainly does and i'm nothing special. so imagine what the tax returns of the big wall street banks, hedge funds, and investment firms looked like with the us tax co taking up literally tens of thousands of pages of the official gazette and corporate tax returns thousands of pages each and with i r. s. oversight lacking for years now, it's up to knowledgeable citizens, to report evidence of waste, fraud, abuse or illegality. that's exactly what happened in the case we're going to tell you about today. the problem though is, what do you do when you report your evidence of illegality and the people who are supposed to investigate it, just decide not to. it's too complicated, they say, or they disagree with your analysis even though you are certain that you're correct or they just don't have the budget or the man power to investigate. or they

convince the courts to ignore you because of a simple technicality. what do you do it keep up the fight and we're happy to be joined by attorney thomas wilcox. he's a whistle blower on the issues of federal and state tax fraud committed by wall street banks and investment firms. tom, welcome to the show. thank you. well, this is certainly a complicated case. i think the best way to tackle it is to start from the very beginning. please give our viewers an overview of what this case is about and how you got involved in it. basically in 2002. later, that's me. sometimes i'm eyes sometimes i'm or later i'm the relate around this time i discovered what relate or believed to be true. patch fraud inflicted on the us and new york state and new york city by several wall street. but the transaction is an issue which i'll call the p assignment. transactions are private placement of securities and 1990 with 85 percent of the funds raised in the united states by 2

syndicates of bucks. both led by credit suisse usa, other banks, the syndicate included, jp morgan chase, morgan stanley, and merrill lynch. i'm gonna call them the us affiliates. now 15 percent of the money was raised in the united kingdom by the british cat or parts of the us branch . i'm gonna call them the u. k. affiliates, the structure of the transactions. again, this dr. limited in much more detail. my website was simply that the us affiliates, acting as the fact of principles a raised 85 percent of the $1800000000.00 total. and the 2 transactions in the united states and simply wire the funds from the new york city closing over to the u. k. whether you pay affiliated simply book the fees at the u. k. then lower corporate tax rate. a simple summary of my efforts and the discovery of the fraud is in 2005 i reported 3 r. s,

and received back only unambiguous letter denying award, but neither confirming nor denying that the irish had obtained any recovery from the bench. in 2011, the state of new york had passed legislation permitting private litigants to bring to cam actions. i'll discuss the details of that later on. a very important point to keep in mind is that a relate or bringing a key. tam fraud on behalf of new york law is bound by a 10 year statute. limitations. whoever for cases are such cases, the state in the city have no statute of limitations, a claim for tax fraud by jurisdiction, united states who are in new york state in the city. and we brought at any time when i presented the documents to the state of new york for review, that entity declined to review any of the documents from the iris investigation or interview of the people who investigated from the iris. the state view of the cases,

the fishing expedition and speculation. ultimately, the new york courts accepted this viewpoint and dismissed the case on that basis. while it's happening on the view that my case was barred by the 10 year. the statute tenure statute limitations at the same time that the new york compel of court was passing such judgment. i found the sound deputy in the international tactual expert moreland nations find this law schools who reviewed the same exact saps, presented to new york state. and the appellate court, and came to the exactly contrary conclusion. the facts i presented were evidence of tax fraud, and the defendants should pay the taxes and issued the 2016. i brought a case on behalf of new york city, new york state. this time on the progressive tax lot of pain. however, the city evidently, must die can. so i wanted to tell the same line as the state and the prior courts even further,

it appeared to want the case to vanish so that it would not have to justify ignoring it. therefore, the city is lawyer trade. it is males with me for 2 years engaging in what i now would view as gas lighting that is open. i would get discouraged and go go away. there were no documents produced and no real investigation. i didn't the but i didn't know the city's help at the end of the 2 years, so on the let finally, let me go forward. the case again, the courts again dismissed the case. now, why do i persist after 20 years? 19 years and then one important point, very important point is none of the above. well, my claims were dismissed as they were later acting on down the interest of these jurisdictions. as noted above the states and cities claimed and never time bought this fraud. and they can take action at any time even further if they take any actions. cheryl is of the banks in question to can filed the river actions alleging

the bank breach their duties to the shareholders. by letting such a fraud take place and failing to pay the taxes when given notice by the litigation cutting to the chase, you saw evidence of tax fraud and you did exactly as you were supposed to do. you went to the courts, but it seems that that's where your problems actually began. as you said in 2005, you reported tax fraud inflicted on the united states. you reported that to the internal revenue service. the i r s. the iris has long had a reputation as being hospital to whistle blowers and unfortunately that was your experience. so tell us about it. well, for a little background in 2004 and wall street bank are testified anonymously. the tried to report fraudulent and wrong path, so shelters to the i r s. if, if they had responded when he had reported that the enron collapse might have been prevented. but in essence this russell blower reported he was treated like a skunk and now and 2005,

i tried to report the fraud described above to the irish. also a wall street patch for in march of 2005, the irish referred the relate or to a special agent. i'll call him the as a new york usa needed decided needed to confirm that was now previous audit taking place before he could meet with me 2 weeks later yesterday called not a 5 or later there was no preexisting audit. and we arranged a meeting at the iris as offices off in time square at the meeting, the s and his colleagues asked some questions, but no show no deep interest in examining the case. in april 2005, i received the notice of objection from ogden utah ira saw in response, i made several phone calls sticking to find out what the basis was for the rejection. the agent said he needed more information. i'll definitely reach the lawyer in the international division of the iris. i'm gonna call him the iris

attorney. last me to submit a memorandum explaining my allegations of fraud. i waited patiently, didn't you know like that, but in 2006, congress passed legislation page in the office of whistle blower o w. and i'm gonna call this the o. w legislation is very important. it a virus whistle blowers, various protections such as the appeal to what that score on what the word denial. however, sex protections applied only to claims based on information provided after the passage of that. so my claim was not included. i'm reading this news. i called the ios attorney. however, he gave a vague response indicating that the recovery had taken place. but he been told there was a preexisting on it. so i was not eligible for a reward. i need that to be false because i went to bed with the agent said that they've been a pre existing audit. so in 2007,

i made inquiry to the head of the newly created office of worship blower o w. however, you gave me a june 2007 response which made an oblique reference to a prior denial of which i was not aware and said it had been quote, well reason. it's really says nothing based on review of cases where the iris has had no hesitation telling whistle blowers the iris recovered nothing. the simple check box like the one i got from ogden, utah. there was no recovery. no, they wouldn't hesitate to tell me that had there been no account, but i view this letter as an excuse to deny reward and keep the whole amount. also because your letter i have submitted the information prior to the passage of b o. w at i could not appeal to tax court with regard to your experience with the iris after you reported your allegations to an iris investigator. the iris adopted

these new regulations that you just talked about, allowing whistle blowers to go to the us tax court to collect a whistle blower reward. this is well established law, but then you were denied even that opportunity. so can you go into a little bit more detail about how this happened and why they wouldn't allow you to even apply for this was a blower reward was i explained above because i submitted the factual basis for tax fraud in 2005 when there was no office of personal blower with the procedures were, were like non existent or very weak on the right to uh, you know, a formal application having a docket number assigned to it and everything like that applied only the information submitted after december 2006 decided submitted in 2005, so i had no recourse. i did get one possible recourse that was um, what appeared to be a silver lining and the february tooth in february,

2007. senator charles grassley issue a letter that implied as finance committee staffers to review all the blower claims submitted to the i. r. s. in this 3 years prior of the passage of the o. w at 2006 had a finance committee staff are undertaking this review. i believe we've been shown the v i s obtained to recovery. however, i believe the new york agents were annoyed by the fact i turned their denial into a recommendation from washington that the matter be investigated. so they ginned up his dues, excuse him, a present preexisting on it. i believe that's what would have been fun. so from 2007, the 2015, i still have to have the staff or is there a lot of turnovers those months staff rather than that, i just asked them to execute the instructions that senator grassley provided in the letter. you go into executive session with the finance committee and you get

approval to get filed and i r. s. however, the one of the stablish story might go to jail since the information was confidential and the less just lacked interest so that that letter was never acted on. i gotta tell you the, the wrong what whistle blowers pretty much right. even after the passage of the irish legislation. yeah o w legislation. where's the boys get treated like skunk sort of picnic? and that the truth after the iris appeared to just dismiss you in 2013, you sought to bring claims. first, on behalf of new york state and then in 2016 on behalf of new york city. this was a complex accusation of tax fraud. but the new york appellate court without permitting any discovery, or the introduction of expert testimony, just through the case out and we're talking about $75000000.00 of the tax payer's money. what exactly happened there? the court of which you speak 1st, department of new york state's appellate division is one of the finest i'm in the

country. but i have to express that disappointment, any handling of my case, the plaintiff allegations in the complaint, i suppose to be deemed true for the purposes of abolishing that this semester, which is where we were at before the appellate court has the proper, properly dismissed a contrary to this rule, at this preliminary stage, and therefore before expert reports were doing, i could've obtained had because not been the semester, the irish material, the 1st department ruled the taskbar, the allegations were pure speculation. and in contrast to many other cases, i've seen dismissing further speculation, the appellate court did not set forth the allegations on which the relate are based attached to another words they didn't put forward in the opinion, any of the documents, the 10 or so documents that i had showing the fraud or describe them or explain why there was speculation is like one paragraphs. i've seen many cases,

the semester fraud on the ground, that the plaintiff claimed the facts of speculation. and we could see in the 2020 election, many courts just saying the plaintiff challenge in the election fraud claims or is just speculation. we're not going to go further. however, each of them, the courts, took the time to review the allegations raised by the plaintiff and explain why they did not meet the bar for their claim or fraud. i didn't get that in this case . it is 2016 ruling. again, they didn't summarize my transactions and all the documents and had been done. so i think i could have gotten multiple attacks experts to state that the opinion was incorrect. while these people are seeking the facts. thank you tom. we're going to take a short break and when we come back, we're going to go into some more detail about how the government denies to whistle blowers what the law demands and how officials to simply get away with it. stay to

the. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 since world war 2, united states has fostered extremist anti russian prejudices and hatreds among the ukrainian d. as for in at least in canada, united states and countries in eastern europe, probably everywhere in the world. it doesn't matter what these groups say or do. it will support them if it is, the groups are causing hatred and chaos within the target country. the joe again might done on the progress bullet. choose the guns. kate dillard, sort of do when i was one of the middle i know myself is, is up and the other was using just $50.00. let me see. i

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all right, so now click on the goodwill time for me, and let us confess about underground these mazda mazda upon the, the. 2 welcome back to the whistle blowers. i'm john carrie onto we're speaking with thomas wilcox. he's a whistle blower on the issues of federal and state tax fraud committed by wall street banks and investment firms. tom, thanks again for being with us. thank you. one of the things that has struck me about your case is the fact that it is dragged on for so many years. the whole thing began around 2002 a decade later, in 2012, you were back in the new york state courts arguing that the case was so compelling that you were sure the government and the courts would pick it up. instead,

the court dismissed the fraud as speculation without offering up any explanation. tell us about that. the 1st issue i will address is the delay from 2002 to 2012, and 2002. the iris had a digital with a whistle blower programs, as i've described above. and as the n one whistle blowers testimony indicates i as i discovered when i tried to file a claim 9 originally started in 2002. no one seemed to be in charge. now on, in any with any authority seem interested in doing anything. in fact, i will never forget the unforgettable statement from a lawyer in the new york office of the irish that quote, we typically don't prosecute wall street. i remember that there is about to this day because i couldn't believe it when i heard it, but it was consistent with the avalon whistle blowers testimony. the program was more about the things changed a bit after the 2004 testimony before senator grassley. i'm behind one whistle

blower. i actually managed to get a formal referral to the irish i r. s. agents discussed above. however, when i met with them, i did not have any excitement about a large case against major institutions. i will never forget showing some documents to one agent who made a joke in reference to another wall street transaction that closed in the cayman islands. and later on, that agent basically started screeching on me that i had no evidence of fraud either in the cayman islands example, or my transaction. after the meeting, the agent just sent me a rejection letters i discussed above. and i want to call the agent as why did you just give me a former objection? they said they needed more information. i provided to them random a year they passed the all the w legislation and uh, i called up, i was told that there was no, but uh,

no reward. why ask newly instead of had to be opposite muscle bl. busy or what happened? he said, well, the denial was well reason which i considered to be uh, just to uh, sort of a blow off and unexcused for them to keep all the money and not giving me a reward. and now after i did dial in 2007, why was there any delay in filing the state lawsuit? whistleblower law is evolving and growing. feel in new york state did not pass legislation for many private litigants to bring tax fraud cases until 2010. i didn't learn of its passage and like 2012 i and, you know, i started putting in a complaint together and filed it in 2013 things proceeded fairly quickly at that point on the, in the state litigation. however, again in 2016 and as the state little said,

saint litigation was being dismissed. i am sitting, litigation was being filed. i just discovered this expert opinion letter from moving. i have a unit saying that was fraud. i found him got the letter saying it was fraud, and i don't think new york state like the fact of this letter came out contradicting above it in the 1st department. so i didn't hear anything until october 2016, and only after making multiple phone calls. finally, to a new york city attorney who will, who review the expert opinion letter, contract to new york states low as you begin to review the complaint. so no months would be consumed by me by on return phone calls. and these delays, however, were nothing compared to what happened after the state assigned the new york city lawyer to handle the case. in january 2017,

the united states supreme court issued an order making this assignment on further, the court required the city or file status reports every 6 months. in late july, 2017. late january, 2018 m. and late july 2018. the city law department filed reports to the court to which i was not privy. however, the lot apartment apparently told, well, they told me later, the report simply stated the investigation was ongoing. during the still years, law department never provided any documents, information relevant to the case to the related one conclusion of the case on conclusion, because excuse me, the related reviewed have a new york city department. spent 2 years, 2017 and all 2018 reporting of the court that it was investigating the case one,

it never produced any documents. interviewed any witnesses like my expert or reported to them related or any of the information i requested. the defendants tax returns critical new york city policies on how they keep track refunds, etc. specifically, i, i had no evidence. they provided no evidence law department and review the tax returns to determine what might be available in damages. lot apartment never interviewed my tax expert nor disclose his tax refund policy, which was critical to a theory of mine most egregiously in 2018 lot apartment requested more evidence of fraud and proof. the case had not gone still over the 19 years since the transactions taken place in response to head requesting and july of 2018. i saw to determine that the signatories of the purchase agreements which

govern the p assign attractions was still a lot such turned out to be the case. so, and even, i mean there was even more evidence of fraud. but i sent these findings which you're several 100 pages to the new york city lawyer, the size that was sent in the cloud, my cloud, which tracks transmission and tells me when it's been open. it was never opened and really never even bother to look at it. just let me know in january of 2019, that the study wasn't going to pursue the case. in september 2019, the court on the field, the complaint. after that time, the law department ceased communications with me. they would not decline, they would not confirm receipt of filings or consent to e filing. finally, in december 2020 the relate assigned both my e mails to the lot apartment. my principal contract returned undeliverable unimed for a i determined he, the attorney had said less a lot of private without advising me of this or given me another attorney to

communicate with them. so on the basis of all this, i filed a formal complaint with the new york city lot apartment. uh and i'm still waiting to hear back from them. so where did things stand now tom, it looks like there's no longer a court case because of the statute of limitations. the claims that you brought expired. it looks like neither the city nor the state have collected any taxes that the big banks have essentially absconded with. so what's next? um, well, for background in 2019, i consulted with professor richard painter at the university of minnesota. as to whether or not the failure of the defenders to conduct an internal investigation of mileage asians that's fraud would constitute a violation of the new york rules of professional responsibility. he believed that to be the case and he pleaded factual allegations in these pleadings that through the bias inflicted a huge fraud on the upstate new york city. someone should investigate this case.

those words were true and created in 2020 and the true today. as noted above, well, my claims have a 10 year statute, limitations. the city and state have knows that you the limitations in pursuing their claims. and even further, if the defendants have been given clear notice of the fraud. if there's any investigation of it generated by your interview with me or any other price of it, and the state in the city actually start an investigation to us, the shareholders of the banks can file the risk of actions demanding an investigation as to why this fraud wasn't dealt with women, but when the banks were given notice of it, uh, i have been described by the defendants in this case twice. and they're brief as relentless, c, n, n d 5 year is that the 1st time they get any press coverage on this case,

i find myself speaking to you. and i intended to circulate his interview as widely as necessary to finish the job. i began. thank you so much for taking the time to untangle this complicated case. american author, writer, and historian albert bush no heart once said that taxation is the price which civilized communities paid. ready for the opportunity to remain civilized when the biggest, most important and wealthy is banks and investment companies decide to not pay their taxes. we all lose close as individuals and as a society. that's why it's up to whistle blowers to keep on the pressure even when it takes decades. i'd like to thank our guests, thomas wilcox for being with us today, and thank you to our viewers for joining us for another episode of the whistle blowers. i'm john kerry. aku, please follow me on subsets at john kerry onto we'll see you next time.

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