oh, the hello and welcome to cross stock where all things are considered. i'm peter live else. it's a growing trend free speech around the world. this address solves the powers that be claimed. truth can only be found to moderation. the rest of us just the man, the right to set the cross talking free speech. i'm joined by my guess, lionel and new york is a legal in media analysts in colorado. we have natalie morris. she is host of the

redacted podcast and it'd be really be cross to s events. carrillo is news desk editor for the cradle. alright. crosstalk rules and the fact that means you can jump any time you want, and i always appreciate why don't let me go to you 1st here. i mean it's so much is happening and around the issue of free speech, we have everything the surrounding around you on mosque. in brazil we have follow up pop up. people do it off in the parents. it is very rest. it is the ceo of kilogram and then multiple individuals being arrested and interrogated for their view. sometimes their homes are being searched. the documents being confiscated, be under the very thin veneer of the law, which i want to talk to you about later. but ultimately, i'd like to ask all 3 of our guests on this program today. is it traditionally then? i know it varies from country to country. that freedom of speech is a right, not a privilege, but it seems to be inverted. now, it's a privilege to be able to speak your mind in public and not right. go ahead lydell

. you know, you know, peter, i've always been use and many of us have been using the fact that speech one form or another, whether it's music and from our generation, from music to, to music lyrics to, to tv shows. there's always been somebody saying you can do that. that's wrong. that's ability. that's um, uh that harmful in some respects. but that was about it. you know, people would say that then we thought this is awful. what i'm finding so fast. the need to day is not so much that people are not allowed to speak. while it says sam handed, physical brute force pulled out of your house. passports grad, you're under a risk. if you had told me a couple of years ago that you would have had people are arrested and wretched is for posting on social media. think about that. obviously, more on social media, not threats, not, not a problem is, is to, to conduct violets,

but merely to present an observation or an idea that was considered in, you know, an inconsistent was something i would have thought. you're out of your mind that will never happen. and look at this now. you know, natalie the richard, robert reich's, the former is the labor secretary, how they operate in the guardian. and it's really gotten a lot of press any room for good reason. you essentially says that you on must goes out of control. i'm not sure how to interpret that. i mean, he isn't control of twitter. but in the whole issue of control was really at the center of this who should have the control. and in his article, which echo so many people in the liberal ecosphere is that moderation should be controlled by except for us. somebody else has to moderate us. ok, i'm not really sure what that means, except for it sound score. so go ahead, natalie. you know, right, but it's a, a parent plea for what they want to control or what anybody who can't control the

populace wants to control through the platforms. now we see the history of media and media control was quite easy in the eighty's and ninety's when there were just a few news channels that were compliant as a mouth piece of the state. what they didn't plan for was that the internet would take that power away from them, allow us to question the narrative, and now they cannot control it any longer. so in this piece, which i think is just petulant and also shameful, he doesn't say what harm there is from free speech other than the fact that it may be promoting trump, which he clearly doesn't like. but what is the rest of the harm calling somebody a certain name, calling somebody need something you don't like it. and also we've seen sucker burg apologize, your sensors and so and see even himself said it, hindsight, i would not have done this. i find that

a really unacceptable explanation of what he should have known there should not have required hindsight to know that quest scanning a narrative is acceptable in any form or fashion, whether it be decoded vaccine, whether it be hunter, by these laptops, any questions should be acceptable, and now the fact that we're trying to sensor even questioning of narrative is terrifying. and again, you know, going back to the rice piece here, i mean, is a, goes off and say people should be arrested. well, and that's not the rule of law. i mean, what is the case you're making and they can't do that and that, and that's what really frightening us about, you know, i'm, this is all accelerated in my mind. it least of considering what's going on the jet aside that's going on in gaza. this is what is terrified so many people, the powers that be because of different narrative is out there and that narrative is dominant all around the world. i would even even go as far as saying its very powerful at least in the west,

is dominant around the rest of the world. and they are terrified that this particular narrative which they have coveted for decades now, is way out of their control. and this is we're seeing and knock on effect. they can use this example. if you claim there's a genocide going on, they just extrapolate to everything else, the bite hunter by the lab, top cobit, etc, etc. but this is the, the center piece that there are so terrified of getting rid of tech talk in the united states because of bad reason. go ahead, doesn't buy it. you know, 100 percent. do you mind? i think i've got beyond that, just getting a tipping point. it cost them with the pounds of sound. you know, way it's friday. the situation. i know that was a spark, a 7 a color because there was a, you know, a throw at the forefront. but then they, they, they collected, was immediately lost control of the narrow maybe was, it was a site see in all honesty was something that up and we didn't see happen when we praying or how it started. we didn't see happen. always, it'd be $49.00. but then your other words are the battery states of steel gas i

became a complete dipping point to the point as we were saying. now you are, they are driving people out of their houses. now, resting people out of airports, they are you just for our social media post, which is, you know, beyond the, beyond anything we could out imagine just a few years ago. but now we saw him on practice. age says show of how much they're using. does all righty how's that affected the western powers, the particular because the situation of, of the palestinians in particular it was not unknown was not, you know, something that was new really to anyone who was paying attention in particular was saying the big role south. no. so we, we, we, we had a, uh, an understanding of what the reality was. but then when you, when the west, sorry to say these, think the, i could send those at one point you were supposed to, you know, and you've already been democratizing formation via you via think that would be, i use, they're going to be or whatever. and that's where he the, the account that was started right, to the point that i, we, i think right off the weights at all, we were bad from made up. the use of order to cavities are going to be sent shows

when in reality water we were doing was selling the reality of what's happening on the ground. well, s about and one of your colleagues at the cradle said to me before we went on vacation, this program is that the, the only adults in the rooms are coming from the global south out. but that, you know, 100. yeah. i, i think that's something we can talk about in another time, you know, line or it's all been mentioned in this program here. i mean, why all the show of force? why do you need a swat team to show up and you know, and just say, what are you doing on social media? i mean, can you just say, can you tell you how big is, can you send you a message and say, can you come and meet us us tomorrow morning at 11 o'clock at your convenience? i mean, because just that no violence has been made and no, it didn't. there's no threat to violence going on. i mean, i mean what, why the show a force. oh, well, because he did the light on the 1st time when i know everybody wants to talk about narrative. yeah, hang on, hang on a natalie. let me go to though. i know 1st and then i'll go to you headlines, or was he? oh pete, my my, you know, the gentleman friend you know, in, in, and in law school,

those of us who work study always heard that before. the government can do something. there had to be a clear and present danger. and c, g, i was always a compelling governmental interest. it was the highest thing you want to do, somebody to oppose an imminent threat of something that your, it's not an idea, not an ideation, not a whole nother wish and a desire, but you're going to do something to bind, to destroy and, and that was wrong or you were defaming somebody, it was easy. if i had to go back and tell curly law students my favorite mis information, this information dad information, these oh hate anti semitism. i have to wait a minute. what this is an idea. i'm so naive. ok, fine. are you saying that that saying something that not is a decent medic,

but that you consider to be in the some of the that you can shut me down and they look at you and they say yes. and to answer your question, peter, the reason why it's so ham fisted and brute force is, took a picture of a condition and to make people realize, well, that's the way it is. this is this new brave new world we live in. and it's to, to acclimate us to a better way to so that we're used to way we can get americans and people around the world to stand in line to wear a mask, to be poked in job a to completely distrust that inner sense of right and wrong somewhere. unfortunately, the human race has a band, but that same tier, unable to keep us safe. okay. natalie interrupted, you go ahead. oh, i was just saying that all of this use the forest is having the chilling effect for those of us who want to ask questions. they want to leave a safer and free our world for our children. is that we feel afraid? will they come to our house next? have i said something in the fall of the narrative? and it is working clearly because those of us who are independent journalists have

to ask ourselves these questions and how safe each thing is. and how do i frame this in a way that i don't get kicked off the platform that are controlled by the government narrative? i mean, you know, it makes us do a dance to make sure that we can at least ask the questions. and it's a conversation with our audience now, like i'm asking this question, do you know what i'm saying? and where are you referring that? we're afraid to say yes. i mean, i've experienced, i, i remember when kobe did started here in there and all, all of the censorship that was going on facebook. and i was, i think, was daniel nick adams, a good friend of the program here. and we ended up speaking in word solve it, and at the end of it, we just like, why are we doing this, or are we so afraid? and then we've stopped doing it. and there was no penalty, but you are right. doing it was, it was upfront you, did you have to censor yourself? that's about lead. do you want to jump in before we go to the break, go ahead and barrow. you know, i think i agree with because something and already but i see it from a heart,

right? like i, i feel like very soft the benefits are being outside of nations that are out there and doing this persecution. and this is why it scares and some, i think is why they the sanction rp just yesterday the us treasury because they know that they kind of go and break down the house and they, they, they kind call and break down or going throughout the grade. all the kind of go on break down the door of r d, they've all, they can do these that make them look like the 5, the die cos, and the inside has been fun for the people into you as well. i see it for you. yeah, well why do i, as i put it on, as i put it on um, on x i said this is the 3rd season of russia gauge. remarkably, it's been brought back. that was low readership viewership, but they brought it back. i'm going to jump in here, we're going to go to a short break, and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on free speech space with our team. the the

this is no better places to be, is a village in the sun. most beautiful features is purely anarchist in the sense that there are no authorities within the city. everyone is their own citizens . half the people are here because then the rest to go and the other half here because they loved the taste and has nowhere else. they rather be than here, but i don't, it's hard one to explain. you just have to experience labs. and by doing that, you have to live here the dish i have right here in lagrange. this is one of the dining halls. it was a mess all for you know, soldiers boot place, you know, several 100 people have passed through here either under way, somewhere else or provide safe space to abuse women and to elderly people, to men, to the people who, addicts to children, you know, some cardboard checks, you know,

but cardboard shack and broke up fee. if you just been sleeping under one of the basic rules, isn't sylvia and it keeps ground. you'll find out the welcome make across stock. were all things are considered? i'm peter le belcher mind. you were discussing free speech, the . okay, let's go back to line o in new york and we, we've all mentioned during the course of this program, the word narrative. there are many narratives. there are conflicting narratives that are opposing narrative, but narratives are made up of words. okay, so let's play a game here, or it least may be explained to me. what does misinformation this information in

mile information mean to you lydel? because it's in work to all of the time, but it's like never defined. and hardly ever, an example is presented to us. so take your pick, you got 3 words, choose one. okay, well let me go back to what i say used to be the narrative of our jurisprudence and for the most part around the world, i had the burden. if i were to say you something, for example, if i were to to tell you that, uh, let's say, hey kids drinking broken glass is good for you or something where you get the whole, the stop stop. it's kind of self explanatory. also, somebody who claim that you are doing something had the burden of proving it, adding to the narrative now, which is the most fascinating compared to what i remember was that you have now the government that says there's no state action here. i'm not telling you what i'm not telling you wonderful people. what you can again say the japs is shorter. it's it's,

it's some server, it's facebook. we're not doing that course mark. blanca burke admitted that he is being used as a proxy as an accomplice. so the government is using these platforms that have addicted people to this think all communication and the expression of ideas. imagine that how, how wonderfully addictive where we're used to that as they do the dirty work, the government has clean heads. we never told you to do that on until the twitter, mammals came out. and dr. burke, that's the latest. that's the angle. it says though, the government, the say you provide them this information, by the way, don't look at us, look at your particular platform. yeah. well that and natalie, i mean, they, the, most of what the painting the authorities claim is miss information. and this information comes from them. it doesn't get right. it covers were commenting on it and we're questioning it. and that's why i that gets us all in a all kinds of trouble because we question their misinformation and this

information and now it's being criminalized. go ahead. all right, well here's my favorite example. last year, the european commission commission to study for where misinformation was most prevalent and they found it and they defined it in a very mysterious way, such as things about coal bad, which end up being true, things about gender, which end up being true. so they had all of these parameters under which they were measuring this information, and they said they found it in spain and france and these communities and it's rise on twitter over facebook versus tip top, whatever they say it's worse on twitter. so they took it to the press and the press ram, a headline saying, russian, this information is prevalent on twitter over other prize. and when you read the study, the study did not try to identify where this, this information came from at all. the european commission bonnets, in order to get this narrative out. so they use the study about misinformation

a spurious study. they used to study about misinformation, to perpetuate misinformation. the study said nothing about russia, that's what they wanted. so usually when you see misinformation, it's a canary and a coal mine for a narrative. they want to control. and if we pull the thread which i have made my job to pull the thread, then we usually find a lie behind it. the guy that is a lie and it's infuriated and that's why i refuse to use this word because information is information, it's up to us to digest it and decide if it's true or not the that's the whole point there is that, i mean, the way i was brought up, i guess, lionel and i already in the older part of the group here is made, you know, it was good information if there's bad information or bad opinions have good information and good opinions, you know, drowned it out. that's the way it used to work and it kind of work pretty well as to by you know, the, i gave 3 words at the top above the 2nd part of this program. let's talk about mile

information. because i think that's the most pernicious because that's an admission that the in foundation itself may be true, but the way it is use it is in vote, it is spread is not. and again, this goes back to what's going on in gaza on the west bank. you, yes, there is a slaughter going on. but it, you know, it don't put it in the present case, put it in the passive voice, and that'll be acceptable as information. then they, they're trying to scramble everyone's minds here. but my law eyes do not lie to me . i can pick up this phone right now in stream to you. what's going on there right now when they are not lies, it is completely on filtered. go ahead. exactly, exactly. you know, like the definition of mount information did this new world, the really just boils down to, i mean, you can be a trip. i mean, that is true, but it's simply inconvenient for political means to whom drive to those in control because that's why i used to controlling the now, i mean, so why?

like an example of values used to be israel as bombing a hasse, israel bombing, are you in palm board a or just look at any headline from a be from reuters from the new york times, talking about with bad stuff policy anyhow, is if you were to read this, you would assume these people are just dropping that out of that new. you know, they're just killed by now. go use it as i guess. but even they never name is for all they f o is a they go out of their way. and i think this is, i think of a negative example of my information. i mean like i don't see it. it's not gonna be like we cannot say the truth because it's inconvenient because the boss and feet then our everything we've already lost. but some of the narrative was such a large extent. but we've kind of confused a few of those and where we can do now is you start targeting anyone and everyone who's getting any traction in speaking the children showing reality, right? any. so if you don't question, i bet it's inconvenient for them, but i wouldn't call it that is competing for everyone else, but she might be for all of us to know what's really happening into now closing,

controlling to know in particular, in the case of casa, always sending the white gloves almost on a daily basis, but i'm ending dropping the heads of i'm assuming jokes or yeah, it line or in do you remember the case of alex jones when he was disappeared? pointless deleted and, and, you know, and, and, you know, those of us that were watching, i'm not a fan of the gentleman. okay. but he has the right to speak. okay. it and no one forces people to listen to him. alright. oh, okay, he's been been brought back, but it seems to me what's going on with telegram with what's going on with a twitter or x, whatever you prefer to call it. these are, these are seen as outliers, but i think they want to show it is an example and may be making the trend. ok. i could for see were social media has to be completely either gotten rid of or completely timed. i don't see a middle ground here, go ahead while the 12, the courts have to 1st of all remove it from the notion that it is somehow this

completely totally private saying that nobody can tell is it is regulated. i mean, the power company is not caught reg private we days of a couple of a couple of historical references. do you remember peter years ago? the owner of his quote book. this is an id. somebody wanted to bring board the book . they showed you how to make bomb. yep. how to kill people, how to make silencers and poisons. and they said, well, that's information talking about madeline formation to show you how bad it was recently. let's friedman was talking to and this is very interesting to donald trump. and everybody was saying all have great, that was even less freedom. it was talking about the idea that perhaps maybe to some kind of weird, sped hallucinogenic of fluke that donald trump may have thought that maybe the 2020 election might have been either stolen or tampered with him. because he didn't want to be called and election deny or, and one side label, something, conspiracy theorist or is garbage house as it gets there is the analyst. but once i give you a name and you said, well,

i knew what that is. your sold careful because once i get that space information, that's that information. yes, it is. it's our duty to challenge it. but all of a sudden look what they tried to do one time through joe rogan telling me that he was using whores the warmer 20 set. and by the way, there was a lawsuit on that. so the thing is, if he said this, it lets us show me actually said judge, i use orange the warmer, turned it off. you're going to shut down the platform. you go to this, peter and the old, a divide called you of a b to not seen fall go somebody, shut the phone company down. nobody shut the post office down because i mailed you that they were going after the platform. first of the information without even questioning whether it's true or even harm here, but natalie is a, is it really the canary? and in the, in the mine shaft here, i mean, you've already brought up on donald trump. you've already brought up russia. gave me these are just the pegs that they hang their hat on. i mean, this is a way to,

to try forward this censorship here. they use these 2 issues as a reason. essentially they just want censorship and they want control and they use these other, these ridiculous reasons to uh, go shed people down because i think it's much bigger than just trump or russia or, or is we, i think it's that it's the whole ball of wax go ahead, natalie for sure it is, and there are a couple of ways that we are manipulated to buy into this number. one is line all said is we don't want to be call these names. we don't want to be called trans phobic or a term for an anti back ser, or any uprooting a biologist. these are all things that i've been called before and you'd tear like, wait, wait, wait, wait, that shuts down the conversation. let's not use these names. but the names are a trump card for lack of a better term. another way that we're manipulative is we're told that hate speech is something we cannot handle. we cannot hurt other people's feelings. other people can not a, by having their feelings hurt. we're too sensitive for this and the real world harm

is that somebody might harm themselves because we are a sensitive populace. so if we buy into these 2 things, number one, name calling to shut down conversation at number 2. avoiding discomfort, we play into the ability to shut down narratives, and this is something that scares me is for all of us to buy into this, a liberal tenant that you can't hurt feelings. people can't take it the certain groups. it's also very incentivizing to the career that are, i mean if, if i want to be near you, so groups, you can't hurt their feelings because they can't take it. well. what does that say about those people that we don't respect certain people strange? i read i, we've been new york times because i have to as part of my job. yeah. i do. i have thoughts of suicide because i think of the ridiculous of certain is no, of course a lot. i'm an adult. i will, can i, i know how to process the news here. we're almost out of time as about,

as i said in the beginning, in my introduction, we all just want the right to dissent. that's going to be a rare privilege moving forward to do to defend 100 percent, 100 percent that we have the center is going to be to be up against the law suit and off. it just does not always fun. you know, a, i did this control that is being exterminated over what can be center. welcome august, to thinking back to like are volks, bainbridge, long video. and like i like all literature is just being reads rapid re read the feed, the new or the new pines. i get the new narrative, which i've been staring situation when you're really, when you really think about everything, obviously is not just about silence in percent or dissenters basis of our hobby. and people in march in knocks that towards a future thing, which freedom of a speech is typically, you know, as nope, and just like anything else. yeah, well, what they, they're building it, they're building a dest help, and they just are the ordering everyone to find their place and it,

and i'm sure i can speak for everyone on the program. i refuse, i simply refuse. that's all the time we have a one to take my guess in new york, in colorado and in bay road. and of course on what i think our viewers are watching us here at ortiz. see you next time. remember russ levels the

take a fresh look around there's a life kaleidoscopic, isn't just shifted reality distortions by tell us to do vision with no real opinions. fixtures. design to simplify will confuse really once a better wills, and is it just as it shows you, fractured images, presented to this, but can you see through their illusions, going underground? can the,

[000:00:00;00] the if you think about russia, what does your mind picture the landscapes open up before your eyes? the last one does you imagine the, the discounts dodge the journey? the the you read to come along

the, in 1941 with the nazis health relation, ultram nationalist. the you astonishes the claim, the independent state of croatia. shortly off the seizing power. they build the scene of us concentration camp a place associated with the worst atrocities committed in yugoslavia during world war 2. use dash is used to come system to isolate and exterminate subs, roma, jews, and other non catholic minorities, and political opponents of the fascist regime. conditions in the scene of us come with her renders the gods to which it to arise and the prisoners they send them a consultation temps. so most of them died. it was incredible genocide.

the