it was called stretching time, but again, you probably don't wanna watch it because it might just change the way you think the time actually and your time. so you're welcome back to going underground, broadcasting all around the world, from the u a. tomorrow in the country with 40000000 will not have enough to eat without federal assistance or continuing political circus. showcase is vice president, kamala harris and former president, donald trump. they will be debating, war and peace on a tv station, abc owned by the creators of mickey mouse. both candidates are paid by those committed to ongoing genocide. here in the middle east. because the 2nd trump to a book the end of the world, if he terminated the us proxy war on russia through crane. this is the vassal

states of west and your apply in economic ruin, resulting from multi 1000000000 dollar suicide on the backend of the u. s. military industrial complex designs in ukraine. the electoral consequences of the medians of puppets has capitalized victories. ranty will policies in france and germany. joining me now from boswell in switzerland is dr. daniel guns, a founder and director of this with institute for peace and energy research. his latest book is usa, the roof list, and by following on from his seminal history nato's secret armies. operation, claudio in terrorism, in western europe, to, thanks so much talk again. sorry for coming on the show. you know, before i even started. but before we get to the trump debate and the decline to the west and your but i'm going to have to ask you because the view is, will wonder if they both the to use. we get paid year a suspicious site and its own right. i have to keep re editing my entry why? why does what can you call you a conspiracy period? so if anyone's watching it quickly, looking up dr. daniel again,

so because i questioned 911, you know, i say we were not told the truth about the terrorist attack of 911 and i say world trade center 7 was bloomed up by a control demolition that was not hit by a plane. never since i said that might be could pay the entry guys to scan from bad to worse and i, you know, i don't, i don't edit it anymore. it's, it's beyond my control. you know, i go to when it just 911, wednesday of course of the 25th anniversary. i don't know whether it's just that i think it's everything you're writing. sounds like a conspiracy, doesn't it? because of clear from the old book nature of secret armies that any military industrial complex systems under trump pool harris will continue to revenge west and your but since operation, glad you and before to be democratic. that's what a lot of people that suspecting, just remind us about operation, i'm glad you know, because it's not your book is not on the school curriculum of western european con

concept. and i think i'll give you the book, people maybe here and i think don't know about it. what is operation? glad you are. by the way it's relevant today. yeah, i mean i can take it step by step this my ph. d. i wrote for years um that on that book and at nato obviously is the greatest military alliance in, in, in terms of size. it's $32.00 countries rise now. during the cold war it was much less, it was 18 countries, and nato always said, you know, we just prepare for our associates invasion, which never came during the cold war. and then a secretly busy i and a my 6 set up, stay behind armies and different countries of western europe and they need to leave this secret. army was called logo and it was exposed in the year 1990. that was the year in saddam hussein invaded kuwait and some people have paid attention to it. but most people have not noticed it. and when it came to life was this gamble because made to have to confirm that they operate that secret state behind armies

in many countries of western europe. and you actually come through that, you know, you comp your call and have a secret armina democracy. it's just legal. you should always, the parliament must always know who's in the army. how big is the army? what's you know, what's the weapon supply? do we could, these are the secret armies. they know the armies today and remedying the 10s of thousands of us soldiers in germany or the people in there, all the bases, occupying a great britain. this is something else this is using or isn't something else? yeah, the secret army of this world. okay. they didn't need to lay an fronds in, in germany. they even had former and right wing extremists, which served under hitler who were then integrated in german secret armies. and they were not officially known and an entity, the italian and basset to ne, tied to confirm that in some terrorist attacks the arms caches of the secret armies were used. so the secret armies were officially linked to terrorism. and the

terrorist attacks, you know, that we come into conspiracy is i mean, conspiracies success. they basically are, you know, an agreement between 2 or more people to carry out some, you know, sinister act without telling anybody else. and everybody's been into political analysis for some time now, is that you know, ever since the murder of caesar, it's julia caesar and it has been conspiracies. and i'm glad you know it was a big conspiracy. and the nato still today doesn't want to talk about it, but you know, i'm a 100 percent positive that it was, it existed. so nato secret arm is existed. there were set up ca and am i 6 and they were linked to terrorism. in saying this, i think the c i a does is make it today, but i suppose the relevance here is do you think that that created the for a child ground in which to make western european countries today believe that they are fighting for justice when they support the as of battalion and ukraine against

russia. the chapter headings in your book, the u. k. italy, france, spain, portugal, belgium, luxembourg, denmark, new way, greece in germany, all the democracies of some 1st aid by operation. at july, the o n. m a 6 and n c i a. so all those countries obviously, notable for supporting zalinski. i mean in all fairness has to be said that most people in western europe have no clue about this. but most people in the united states, if you ask them, what is claudio that's never heard about it. so it really is only a highly specialized people in history and political science and some courageous journalist who, who know about operation, glad you and, and people on the streets to day. if you ask them about ukraine, it's the same problem. i mean, people saying the war in ukraine started in 22 with the invasion of russian out for russia. it's invasion into ukraine, and i always tell them, you know, in 2014. and there were snipers on the, my don, which is the important space and keeps where a protester is met with, you know,

a policeman. and i tell them, look at the 25th of february, 2014. and you will see that snipers killed both at demonstrator and, and policeman and that's called strategy of tension. and i've seen things like that in my research and operation, claudio. so you can always crates have ok, you can always trade k o c by telling both sides and then withdrawing very quickly . but there again, i realize in germany, switzerland, australia, what, where i give a lot of public talks and you know, i'm connected to people here. i'm based in switzerland. people go like, ah, no, i can't, i, i've never heard that. i don't think that and are you sure. 2014, it already started and it's just, it's just not in the news and when it's not in the news, people think it doesn't exist. and of course it's banned that kind of information explicitly by the european commission. yeah. and the in britain by censorship of authorities, you had endorsed r f k junior, who uh,

whose family certainly knows enough about conspiracies. uh we, we've already had the candidate trump shots in the head, and they as estimation, attempt to pull this estimation attempts a suspicious of course, but this, this was also suspicious. i mean, do you think uh, given r f k junior has said similar things to what you just read about the real causes for the war in western europe. they may have killed hundreds of thousands of people in ukraine. do you think the same m, i fix it in c, i a forces are on stand by in case trump, but wins in november to be i mean us shopping near and i don't believe that the secret service was not aware of that person. you know that that person who was shooting up there in the room if you caught, you don't actually have a situation like that where you go like, oh yeah, gee, there wasn't man on the roof with a gun, but we were just too busy with other projects so we, we couldn't check that is,

it doesn't make sense. so it really was a stand on order. and then robert kennedy junior. yes, sir. i would, i would have voted for him. had i been, you know, american, i'm obviously swiss and that will not vote for anybody in the us selection. but robert kennedy junior and has a very deep understanding of international politics. give him the fact that his father was killed, he knows that conspiracies exists, and his uncle president john f kennedy was killed. and robert kennedy junior knows that the us was involved in the over throw of the ukrainian government in 2014. there are other people in u. s. like john mercer time are an excellent man and he knows very well that the us actually was in the boston, the 2004 to included with victoria. and you will and playing a key role. also jeffrey sachs and other excellent man and you know that you're, you know, you know, all those people are being ongoing undergrad in reason to, in recent weeks. but then i'm america, are the people that does suggest that if those same gladiator voice is decades on

us bill, they're powerful enough. uh to uh, well we've, as i said, we don't know about the assassination attempt on trump. it's not even coming in the so called the legacy of mainstream media ritual for golf. no, since got harris suddenly became the candidate. i mean, the actually on that doesn't surprise you the, you know, why it is that no one learns from history that we've been through is that brooder and kennedy, and john f. kennedy and all of that. and you had something happens early a month or so ago and it managed to be quiet and down already. there's obviously no warren commission or anything like that. but we're going to it again or yeah, i'm but that, that's the thing. i mean, they try to battery information that is inconvenient because if you, if it goes through the data on, on the trump assassination at 10, then i think the 1st thing that is clear is that has been really shocked in the air . and it was really close, i mean the air is very close and you can cut up the item that they did. and then

the 2nd thing is that there was a shooter. and the 3rd thing is that the shooter was taking that in by snipers. and the question then obviously comes to everybody who goes i how come this guy could find them that roof, sit there and, and shoot the trump have come to the secret service. did not stop him from doing that because that's the job of the secret service. and the thing is that you always have a command post. so if somebody see something, you know, the information will go to the command post and the command post, but then react and say ok, there's a shooter on the roof. and then would say whether whether shooters and they would track, they would not say, well, we're not sure whether that gum is already below that. let's wait a 2nd or let's leave trump make this very important point in his speech. no, you would immediately, you know, take down the president inside there, there is an army get man on the roof and it would just take the president down and, and got into a secure location. all of this didn't happen. so that's a me, it looks like a stand down,

which means the next basic are order within the corrupt secret service, not to protect the president on that day. and then, you know, i, i don't have the facts, i just broke out. what happened then? i saw that there's something very wrong happening in the united states right now. i mean, do audio was so strategic. it's successfully destroyed mass movements, political parties of millions of people in west and you're off to the victory against naziism. it was successfully of a strategic and destroyed move, constructed face the left wing terror organizations and all the rest of it does this kind of thing. show the desperation, the assassination attempt on trump binding of media in a country with the 1st amendment, the banning of meet here in west new york. the signs of desperation is nothing is strategic and as clever as we saw under uh, uh the, the great or someone say evil leadership of, of the heads of c. i a and the security services in the fifty's and 70

what i would i really see. yeah. without, without really see with, with, with the nato countries, you know, within the 32 countries they're led by the united states. i see a certain degree of decay that is becoming worse and worse. i mean, you know, we, we obviously had in the fifty's with deal with our, of the government in iran, in 53 of the most. i think that was a ca and i my 6 of pricing. we had in 54 with no referral if the government and bought them all of our bands who was the elected president, got tamala, we obviously had crimes. and in vietnam, calculus crimes, people were killed and tortured. we had no referrals to government and cheat on 73 . so you know, there's a long, legit legs, legacy of, of operations. the bay of pigs invasion, attack them to bind 1961, the attempt to kill see the cost for which went wrong. they couldn't kill him. so, you know, that's been many, many crimes and, but now i think people given that we have you to have given that we have instagram, didn't that we have the telegram, isn't that we have, you know, all sorts of, of,

of, of communication. people try to find out about these things. people have tried to talk about it. so the information more is going on. and then what i think is very interesting that people that talk about what was the curse girlfriend said, you know, on august 6th, was this just to landscape invading russia or was this you, when i states is essentially nothing. you know, daniel daniel again. so there's rumbled as well, i'll just stop you, but we have to go to a break more from the founder and director of this was institute for peace and energy research after this by the, [000:00:00;00] the

the this is for digital rest of choices to operate. it didn't don't pass under the orders of ukrainian special service in the hands of staying with the blind of hundreds of people who were the neighbors in the towns and villages of john bass. beach was problem is money in a career and ukraine security service in case of failure they were guaranteed saying to in ukraine. however, today's reality for them is jail time for many years. the outcome of working for you cry and the enemy is up to 20 years in prison for terrorism and espionage,

the welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with the founder and director of this was institute for peace and energy. we said she'll continue again. so i ensure up to do a doctor again. so in the part one, when you talk about co ask, which is the most recent uh, offensive by as it lensky is. a british a you, us, um, to forces opponent in the, in the propaganda media of the west in europe and asia countries or. yeah, yeah, we took a short break, but coming back to that point, i'm, you know, on rumble and into the ground. tell her from the other channels. it's obviously a very to debate what was going on before this invasion really started. and if it was just an a decision by present savanski then it was a purely ukrainian oppression. but could also be that the british and the american

. so nato countries used as lensky to attack russia and that, you know, during the cold war, it would be, you know, on think about that made to attacks us as art because it's a, it's a, it's a nuclear power. and us as a nuclear power and the rule has always been nuclear power, should not shoot each other. kelly it's, it's, it's soldiers and having visions on their territory. so it, and so this is really a new quality there, or new drama there unfolding. and boy, is it a bit like the proxy armies in afghanistan when the united states and bullets, it'd be those who would become those who launch the $911.00 attacks as the mainstream narrative would have it. um, you know, this has been done before. so put in doesn't have to respond as immediately as you might suggest from what you just said as regarding it being unprecedented. yeah, i mean, i don't even have the facts. you know, i don't even know what this was purely savanski or with this was biting through to the landscape. i mean, uh who, who i mean if, if we, if we,

if we see the bite and even confused, the names of citizens game printing at the, at the last the name. so i'm going to, going to turn to reduce the landscape. and then he said, this is a good thing, i mean united states and very confused situation, but about this jack solomon, for instance, doing a and to me blankets of the, the, the curse defense. if it's something that is being debated heavily and you're right, we can draw the conclusion that it's somewhat similar to calling this done in 79 because the ca set up um, you know, radical muslims in enough context on, in 79 already in summer. and then in winter, in december of $79.00, this drew the, the russian invasion of us, of kind of sun, which was an angel. but it was again triggered by the ca, who armed image headings and then which i deans later earned into all kite on the summer. been logged in. so i'm, yes, the c a is using all sorts of proxies and, and your rankings are a proxy used for us in paradise cause what's really different here is

a cause where you're talking to me from fits it. because even in the 2nd world war, i mean anyone is read premium levies, books. and isaac's is the fleeing. nazi germany is a jew to freedom in switzerland. we have the form of ukraine, they do official, and so it's kind of jack bodes on this program. and i tried to ask him, you're not a just expressed his frustration. what do you think your time talking to me from basel, switzerland is no longer a neutral country. clearly it hosts conferences on peace without all the policies. uh, what do you think of it abandoning? it's historic neutrality. and what does this with people think about the fact that switzerland is the defect to you know, i mean the free, it's not military. it's on a geo political target, though. if the global south, the breaks the emerging, well that is upon us. i mean, i'm just very sad to see this. i mean we have this conference in switzerland. uh it was called

a peace conference and they only invited ukrainians. they didn't invite the russians. i mean, you can't do that. i mean it's what, what could i say it's just, it's rosemary's up. so there's that and it's obviously wrong. and, and on the, on the neutrality issue, you know, switzerland and has a population of 8000000 people. so we're, we're right, small country and, but we had note, say in this, i mean, this was the government. i am on october 24th at 2022. that was the day the russian invaded ukraine and said, okay, we'll stay neutral and we'll see that we can talk to all sides. and then only 4 days later, m as with foreign minister, it you cannot to cost is said at, okay, we're taking over all sanctions of the european union. so, so we actually go in and entering economic war against russia and that's the de switzerland drafting and challenge. it was a 28th of february, 2022. and i think it was a huge mistake because switzerland is not

a member of the european union. and these were not sanctions, which were, you know, being supported by the security counseling in new york by united united nations. so switzerland has no, no reason to can to, to do this and i, i talk to friends. and so why we shouldn't do that. we should stay neutral. and they said, yeah, but this is the legal invasion. and then i said, well, when the americans invaded iraq, that was also needing a good invasion. we didn't start and you cannot make war against against us. you know, when germany bombed serbia 99th, i was illegal as well. we didn't, you know, start the new economic war against germany. in fact, and neutrality is an idea that yukon and start the new economic war against people who do illegal things future stay neutral. you say ok the ca over through the government. the key, if that was the legal, the russians and they did in 22, that was a legal we stay neutral. and so i think it's a huge mistake, but what we will have is we will have to vote on that issue. i'm not, i'm not sure whether you're aware of that,

but we can have and we can force the vote. it's called the new nation. so if you collect the 100000 signatures, people did that. i support that. and we're going to have to vote on whether it's the that's what someone goes back to being neutral. i know i don't know when the boat will be with probably being 252020 for me, too late. then i'll give you a. but you know, unlike glad you and the previously i am isaac's operations. what was behind in the 1st place, this abandoning false neutrality, use it actually a product of a lead class warfare in western europe. b elite in switzerland or out of touch with the swiss population. similarly mackerel, out of touch with the french population sholtes. i mean, katie, to polls here will easily just storm are in, but they're all completely out of touch with the populations. i think so. yeah, i think money, money i'm members of the executive are not in touch with what their populations or anything. i mean, if, if you look at germany, germany has 616 states or on this land,

but as you call them and the tube of this land, the which is tutoring and sucks and they just had an election to few days ago. and the point is that the non of the ruling parties, i mean, the green party is ruling in germany. the social democrats, the red parties ruling and the escapade which the 3rd small party, their ruling in berlin. and none of these 3 parties which were present the german government right now, we're making any good results. in fact, they were, they were all shattered. and the auto pay and the base made has been sort of ok, nice made, made. it made a lot of points and it's, it's still, you know, a point being discussed in germany, but it very much support your, your, your analysis that actually people don't trust the ruling parties anymore. and in switzerland, people, i mean people have different perspectives, but not many people. i still think the majority ones, switzerland to stay neutral and they don't like this risk government to throw

neutrality away in the context of new bringing to. yeah, i mean, what next man, i mean, you mentioned germany, we've had to our web deck to officials from, from the european parliament on. i mean, even the japanese f t, as in volkswagen considering closing factories in germany for the 1st time. and it's 87 year history, what happens for those powerful lead clauses? as the economies of western europe collapse on the altar of this war, a proxy war against russia through ukraine? how will they be able to control the anger in the streets? it will be very difficult. i mean if you look at the situation of germs, you right now, it's a comforter with the 18000000 people earning obviously the capital but, and they have the north stream pipeline blown up. and that was a very important supply of gas gas coming from russia, going into germany and giving germany cheap energy. and now it was blown off on the

26th of september, 2022. most people remember that one another to star is circulating one story by seymour hersh, which i think is the correct sar. is the joe biden us president joe biden gave the order and the see i carried it up. so that's the official and that's the story i believe in. and germany didn't react. it was like, oops, the united states has turned out a terrorist attack against jeremy and german chancellor offshore and said nothing. it just said nothing. and the other story, which has not been circulated by the wall street journal, which i, i don't believe that story, but it's, it's as circulated in august 2024. and the story was, know the ukrainians did it so. so lensky did it, and then saw using it his chief of staff and the c i is giving a completely new role in this well straight story. and the role of the ca then is it one savanski not to do it. so it was like, don't do it, it's not a good idea, but it's an honest key carrying it out. so the shift is,

the blindness being shifter from joe biden to, to landscape. but if you, if you look at these stars, i'm everybody i assign you and have to estimate up their own mind. but jeremy continues continues to send weapons to so landscape. and so it's like, do you think he blew up your pipeline? and then if he has, why do send weapons or do you think the americans blew up the pipeline? then why don't you criticize joe, by them. so it's really, it's really, um, it's very strange. you know, jeremy is not there. they're going to say anything. and of course, harris scholars was in that administration up to the motto, coal street journal read is to decide how given people to watch are as we would sy hersh about that. just finally, you have talked about the tragedy of ukraine. obviously, hundreds of millions of people in western europe will pay the price for this in terms of poverty, but they've paid for that lives in, in ukraine. and you compared it to the oft of the aftermath of the vietnam or the

aftermath of all the us proxy was when everyone wakes up from the nightmare. yeah, because in, in vietnam, if i, if i just may, you know, that's also in my book process. i'm fired the vietnam, sorry, i mean, it was the soft me. it means killing the noise be, it's amazing north with me is getting this app is amazing. then there were 3000000 . that means that another 15000, your soldiers who, who are also there and the story was that united states and decided with the size of it. it's amazing. we bought the knoxville means and when, when they less than $751975.00 us less than to be at, i mean sort of broke up and said, why, what are we telling each other, this crazy you're my brother. and i hope that ukrainians and russians will come to the same point at one point. you know, the british and americans will withdraw the weapons, they will withdraw and add the financial support and they will withdraw their advisors, military advisors and that that point ukrainians will realize and russians will realize that they're still neighbors. they will always be neighbors. it's not, you know, ukraine is not going to be

a neighbor of brazil and russian is not going to be a neighbor. i don't know if australia is so their, their stock from the geographical situation, their stock. and that was the same for north in size to be at the meeting. they were, you know, there were still there when the americans left. and i hope and that people in ukraine and people in russia. i understand this, but they're both then brothers and that they have one certain point i must find a way back to piece. talk to daniel again, sir. thank you. i think so. i don't have that set for the show. i'll continue condolences to those bereaved by u. k. u s. u, i'm genocide here in west asia. i will be back with a brand new episode on saturday until then keep in touch 5. will i social media, if it's not sensitive and you will country and had to our child going on the ground tv hon,

they'll come to watch new and old episodes of going undergrads is that the russian states never as tight as i'm one of the most sense community best ingles, all sense and up the must be the one else calls question about this, even though we will fan in the european union the kremlin mission, the state on the rush to day and split the ortiz full neck, even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube tv services to the question, did you say even closer to

the the news? [000:00:00;00] the