of the big pharmaceutical companies are something of a boogeyman in the united states and that's not by accident. pharmaceutical development is driven by profit, not altruism. and if a new medication is not cost effective, it just simply isn't developed. at the same time, the big pharmaceutical companies often increase their profits by giving doctors a commission on the drugs that they prescribe. in the us is one of only 2 countries in the world. we're pharmaceutical companies are allowed to advertise their drugs on television. many americans see their commercials and go to their doctors asking for the latest greatest medication to cure or prevent everything from depression to a reptile dysfunction, to h, i v to leg cramps. the drugs are expensive, but many people don't care. they'll pay the money if it makes their lives anything like what's in the commercial care free people running along the beach, riding horses, enjoying time with friends or family, and apparently being healthy. and they don't care about the side effects which are

whispered at the end of the commercial, or which appear in very, very small print at the bottom of the screen. my favorite is for a new drug to treat anxiety. the commercial looks great until that is the voice at the end tells you that the side effects include rectal discharge deaf and an irresistible urge to gamble seriously. but again, it's all about the money and it's not just pharmaceuticals, it's also medical devices. listen to what our guest today recently wrote, quote, imagine a tv ad for a hip replacement device overseas of puppies and sunsets. a voiceover warrens hip replacements may cause tissue death, the destruction of muscles, bones and ligaments, nerve damage, mental changes, siroy disorder, vision and hearing problems, and heart failure, unquote. such as may soon be a part of prime time viewing. not just because the device industry is starting to

advertise, but because medical device side effects are as scary as if not worse than drug side effects. martha rosenberg is a veteran journalist, who writes frequently about the impact of the pharmaceutical food and gun industries on public health. her work has appeared in the boston globe, the san francisco chronicle, the chicago tribune salon, and a lot of other places. martha, thank you so much for joining us. well, thank you joe. i'm so happy to be with you, martha. i have so many things to ask you that it's probably not even possible to do it in 30 minutes, but here goes. so let's start with big pharma, and with the development of new drugs you wrote an important article in salon in which you said that these companies will issue a press release about some so called unrecognized disease. they'll launch a tv campaign to quote, raise awareness about it. they'll send people to their doctors for prescriptions and then develop a 2nd drug to boost the 1st drug either because the 1st drug doesn't work or

because people don't have this so called disease in the 1st place. so tell us about this vicious cycle and how the big pharmaceutical companies perpetuated. well sure, john, i'll, you know, it's pretty apparent to anybody who watches tv that they really capture um, tv advertising, especially news media and, and they're what we call the, the ads are dtc direct to the, to consumer advertising. is what, what's very insidious, because my background is advertising is what we call a brand to advertise. i don't know why the sta permits it, but what, what that is is still highlighted disease that you might have. they hope you have because they want to make money without telling you the drugs you're trying to sell . okay, and like examples might be um, exit your exit critic a patriot. it is sufficient, say you might have it if you have is it just as i don't telling you, we have

a drug to sell you for this disease that we hope to have. so these, these awareness, they're called awareness campaigns, or i'm branded advertising. people think they're from the cdc or the ca know they're from drug makers. you have written what to me is a damning indictment that americans have been led to believe that they suffer from, among other things. seasonal allergies, asthma, seasonal, affective disorder, social anxiety, depression, bipolar disorder, e d, h, e erectile dysfunction, irritable bowel syndrome, dry eye blue list just goes on and on and on. and we hear about things like and restless legs and excessive daytime sleepiness. we get drugs for these things, whether we need them or not. and yet americans are among the on healthiest and status people on the planet. how did we end up like this? and when did it happen? well yeah, that's a great point you're making because we have the money to be healthy. i mean,

we have systems and we are very of healthy. i think i'm, i'm sure you know this. there's only 2 countries in the world that prevents direct to consumer advertising, drug advertising, which is new zealand and us. so if it's a big reason we're unhealthy, healthy is the advertising. and if you watch tv, which i try that too, but out in between the drug is our food at so people are taking drugs, it makes them obese and unhealthy. and they're also eating these fluids. it makes them on healthy. as of somebody was making a joke to me recently the americans worked here looks terrible. that smell good. so we're convinced that you know, like you need mouth wash and you need uh the dryer sheets, but you're over way the chelsea you've got high blood pressure. you've got all these diseases that nobody had or even knew about until the direct to consumer

advertising. and john, i'll the d, the dtc advertising, begin to 1998. and it's so of pernicious that they've actually got class as a medical school teacher would be doctors how to refuse the patients that come in. and they say, i have this disease that i need this drug. i know because i saw the tv, you go on in this article to talk about something that is systemic in the united states, and that is just wrong, wrong, wrong. you talk about how the big agribusiness companies produce foods that, that and, and 2nd people, they use tax pare money and government subsidies to market these unhealthy foods. they dump these process foods into the school systems, and then they lobby the government to help them keep that cycle going. how is that even possible? is it unique to the united states and why don't either congress or the food and drug administration, or maybe both? put a stop to it?

well, you know, joan, that's a very complicated question. i can't really answer about other countries, but i do know this. people don't realize usda is department of agriculture was never found it to protect the consumer. whereas f t a was us da, was founded to support the full growers as farmers. and that's what adults. okay, so this sort of one as soon as they don't, they don't care about the of the either or less the consumer. but um, what example, a big cold price that we've seen in the last 20 years or certainly the last 10 years is what we call high fruit toast. corn syrup, which all the soft drinks now to chain. and i worked with a lot of doctors and some dots i work with wrote a paper where they connect to the high fructose corn syrup,

which isn't everything too well, adult ada sheet symptoms. and specifically, you know, that we hear about the gamers that all day long, the gaming and the drinking mountain to, well yeah. and evidently these types of chose corn syrup fluids produce a kind of famine responsive people where they, they don't believe that they've ever had enough to, even though they've eaten enough. so it really has a medical effect of one thing i wrote in my, my book, which i hope everybody would like to follow, called the food big farm up big lies. just recently published us on amazon is pink's wine. the pink slime was now about 1012 years ago, a huge story because of some of the news stations shows this awful of ground beef coming out of grinders. it looked like intestines of it. what the scandal was, is that slaughter houses,

or the div preparers were using ammonia, tough on this ground beef to kill the eco live, which is as damage to the slaughterhouses of the animals as they were using ammonia, a tough to kill the e. coli, which otherwise would a hi, muss, and so every is it was going to the school lunch program, which of course, you s t a of very much provides school lunches and for women who are on food stamps and h for dependent children. and so there was a huge scandal where the company that was making this so called thinks one last, a lot of customers and parents were outraged that the kid might be using this stuff . but what nobody realizes is that they yeah, usda a are pot, it's actually quite a bit f t a one of the government agencies actually legitimize the pinks one. is

the bottom line of the food problem. processed foods. is it bad habits? is it food deserts, or is it simply corporate profit? and is it even possible to turn this around? well, i'll tell you just 1st of all, if you go into the grocery store, there are a lot of fluids, which i certainly try to eat some that are not process. you don't have to eat processed or alter process to, okay. you have to make an effort and read labels. i think it can be turned to run. i think the public health conscious people was cheerful. i know when i see somebody that says um, you know, artificially reviewing sure no channels. certainly. i want to, i think for dennis or is, is an issue because if you really live in an area where your food is gonna come from a 711. yeah, you're a travel. so it is. um, the reason we've, we've got so much old truck processed food and process food, us corporate, great,

pure and simple. it's just cheaper it is. and one thing i write about my books is the jim o crops was like, i live in illinois and wherever you leave chicago, you just have field to fields after fields of cor, well we're not even the core and that's general port and the animals are eating up the animals that cheap believe so, you know, it is a grow faster and it's cheaper so, so the bad forward is driven by a corporate profits. but it's also driven by that. i've written about this, how fluids were designed, their way they were designed to be addictive. and, and so you know, it's like either pest fools, i don't have a dog anywhere, but i to a rubber how. why does it dog love this pencil? it's so much will it is designed to be a just addicted so there's a lot of but mostly another big issue i always talk about is food advertising.

because when you see these, you know, a big and cheese burger with an egg on top of that, looks good. and then here's your co advertising works. i was in advertising a long time and it absolutely works. so there's always the actors of, you know, be advertising the corporate profits of people being addicted to just for people watching too much tv. it is a factor. and then also some of these sites was we've talked about make people abuse also of a problem. i don't know this for sure, but probably of changed or eating habits of what also one thing i we, we talked earlier you when i about events it diseases or many people have heard of g e r d g or guest jo, re flux to see i'm not saying it doesn't exist. well i am saying it's been amplified by drug makers to sell pies, proto, pump exhibitors or gas of reducers. and

a lot of people who do believe they have girl, because of cheese tbs, actually have harper, and they need to eat better. but there's been so much money in these p. p eyes which have terrible side effects, a leach calcium out of the bones. and they cause see just to just a seal which isn't a very dangerous of intestinal disease. so. so but again, if we were eating well, we wouldn't be heavy heart, heart bird or dirt. you are absolutely right. thank you martha. we're going to take a short break, and when we come back, we're going to continue our conversation with journalists, martha rosenberg about the things pharma and agribusiness in the united states, and about the effects that these enormous industries have on our health. the situation is not a good state to the. 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2

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the welcome back to the list of lawyers. i'm just curious because we're speaking with martha rosenberg. she's a veteran journalist who writes frequently about the impact of the pharmaceutical food and gun industries on public health. her work has appeared in the boston globe, the san francisco chronicle of the chicago tribune salon and elsewhere. thanks again for being with us. martha. thank you. yeah, i'm so happy to meet you would be on your show all the pleasures online. believe me, martha. i have a cousin with whom i'm very close. a few years ago she developed a heart condition and she required surgery to install a heart pump. she had that surgery and she didn't get any better. a year later, the hospital informed her that the pump was defective and had been recalled. so she has that surgery again to remove the bad pump and to have a new pump installed. she told me recently that she would rather be dead. you've done a lot of research on medical devices,

tell us what you've learned about these devices and about the industry behind them . well, thank you joe. i'll actually like, i've written several books and i really did not include the devices in my books because the device of revelations are more recent. there's a wonderful book by jimmy lens or she's an editor of british medical journal and she wrote a book that really exposes device industry. all i really did was read it and then interview it and do a little inter of review it. but nonetheless, i would say the device industry, it gets less coverage for reporters than the drugs. it is probably less ethical because what, what she said in her book is that they think that these devices have been scrutinized tested by f. d a. or, you know, the medical p love,

they often haven't done. in other words, the testing is not nearly as good with as, as it is with medication where it's also not good. okay? so there's some, there's a false confidence people have with the device as devices are very lucrative to hospital side. i think we talked and i think i might have sent this to you that to the out a new help would be like thousands of dollars to the hospital and the baby to the doctor and of the surgeon. and his point of fact, it costs maybe $300.00 to create. so there's a huge profit margin of the the device. and yet as i say is very un under reported. there's a lot of risk. one company that does have a lot of bad press over devices, this called medtronic. and i, i think they're still out there selling your devices. but i also have to, as, since i'm,

i'm very much an inside of the city advocates. and i have to also is that if people are not on peace, they do not need new hip hips and new needs. and all that stuff is, is a, is we linked to the obesity epidemic that we're seeing. and we didn't like our grandparents or even our parents. they didn't have new these and new hips the way we are now. so the device now i'm not saying with a heart, you know, heart, obviously you need a device, you need it in place. but i would say to anybody considering a device get on the internet. um a couple sites that i recommend um our public service. it is a wonderful um, it advocacy site for consumers. and also ask a patient is, is a site that has no advertising from industry. as you can see what people say about their health and the drugs it take it how, how old they are, how long they've been on a drug. i'm not sure if they cover devices,

but i recommend them and i also recommend the people's pharmacy as in other sites. so i recommend to people that are considering the devices go on the internet and see what the people are saying and whistle blowers the same. not just industry who pays for those expenses. that you have noted that, unlike drugs which are dated, labeled and tracked, it's impossible to know how many people have, how many medical devices and their bodies to tell you the truth. i have an artificial knee, and a titanium plate in my right hand. sometimes i set off airport metal detectors, and sometimes i don't, but it's insane to me that there's no computerized record of implants or medical devices that exists anywhere. why is that? why has it never been done and why is there no government oversight? well, you know, john, you're absolutely right. there is no data base that i'm aware of. and there's not even really

a patient movement for that which there should be. and you mentioned that you know, your own of devices and i apologize for that remark. i mean about obesity because i'm sure that you had a good reasons for your devices, but i think that people that they don't demand from the devices as to what, what we might demand from from the drive, the drug industry. oh, i don't think i think people have too much trust, you know, we've, we've talked to about the process of in the medical field there's, there's great profit. so i can remember either way back when i was young. i was, you didn't have insurance companies. okay. uh, it was a concierge. the models in which people would pay the doctor directly at once. you've got the insurance and there are insurance, a middle man, and the,

the hospitals and the profit sharing more net medicine just became too ranged. if it came out that it's no, it was no longer for the health of the patients and i think was devices that there's a, a bad trust in as well. you know, with drugs in what devices, there's a strong feeling that they wouldn't have been approved. they wouldn't be on the market if they weren't saved, and then the doctor would suggest them to me if they weren't sick, as both of those are just wrong and how many deaths do we have to see? oh, you didn't defend me. both of my injuries were from my c id. so no worries. yeah, i, i am still interested in your, your story john. oh my gosh, what you've been it's been an odyssey. well, you mentioned something a moment ago that i think is very important and deserves revisiting. and that's the, the outrage of pricing. you know that for example,

a hip implant cost about $350.00 to manufacturer. but hospitals pay up to $7500.00 to buy them from the manufacturer. in turn, the patient pays an average of $39000.00 for that hip replacement. why is there no regulation for these kinds of implants? surgeries and really is it any wonder that so many americans travel to foreign countries to have their operations? well, that's a wonderful point that you make there, john of the we called medical tourism, which is sort of a cavalier term because it's not like you're enjoying it, but yeah, other countries are way ahead of us. and i think that we 1st what we lack of patient awareness, we lack of patient patient lobbies, a lot of the so called patient prove such as far farm upfront. okay. the other thing that we have on the us that you're likely to see is countries that you could, you could lead to for a device. and in sir um,

is we have the lobbying and i've read this for every congress member whether setting or house, there's 5 lobbyists. there's so much money in this tangled in front of them. well, our lawmakers are captured, they just are captured. i i have, i'm not gonna mention his name, but i have a lawmaker who represents the and i love him. however, he's in, he's very highly funded by pharma. i don't know what you do when you're a one baker, you know, to church or down the use the body to get re elected. but, but anyway, other countries do not have this theory that pull lobbying system which explains a lot of the things we're speaking about were but you, you. ringback you wanted to, i can think of certain congressional hearings. ringback into these high prices, occasionally, a little ray of light will, will come through. like,

i don't know if you remember the guy that we called farmer brother. and i think his name is mark martin's floats. very easy route was really to rush. you remember? okay, it, he has taken a drive, it costs something like 300 and or maybe 150 and it just moved into 4 digits. and he was so errands in what he was doing. he was sent to prison for something else, but, but he was notice but, but you, we what we see hearings and tigers about prices, which was put onto the device issues. if you don't, they don't go anywhere because these are our lawmakers are very instead of to pharma. and you know, that's how we got in this is a situation where we're now and we're, we're, it's the hospital. they make a huge amount of the searches and hospitals. i personally, i'm very discouraged with the medical profession at this point. martha, your book is big food, big farm,

a big nightmare. tell us where we can get it here in the united states and around the world. of bless your heart you. okay, actually it is a nightmare, but the, the actual title is a little bit different. it's called the food big farm. i think. why, okay, it is a nightmare, but it's kind of big was, and it's really on amazon. if for any, any other country, anybody's might be listening it's, it's a paper bag. it's very inexpensive. i believe it's under $20.00 of the book has i think, $23.00 cartoons because i, i'm also a cartoonist without a good capture. but i think that this stuff is so down depressing that you need to 11 it up with a little humor. so i do, i, there's a lot of cartoons or there's a funny book. it's a sad book. but anyway, big full, big pharma, big watch as well. thank you so much. the book is fantastic. i read it and i loved

it. communities in countries and ultimately the world are only as strong as the health of their citizens. owen arthur, the link prime minister of barbados once put it most simply, he said, quotes he who has his health has hope and he, who has hope has everything. alas, that rhetorical question, again, how can the wealthiest country in the world has the most expensive medical system in the world? a system that leaves the elderly, the needy and the for the hi. i'd like to think our guest martha rosenberg for being with us today, and thank you to our viewers for joining us for another episode of the whistle blowers. please check out martha's book, big food, big pharma, big nightmare. i'm john kerry. aku, please follow me on subsets at john kerry onto we'll see you next time the. 2 2 2 2 2 2

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