is rarely american genocide scholar, who opposes was even in a blood, joe biden is admitted, is the indiscriminate killing of civilians. i'm about to office and every day israel is getting weaker. he's beside the office of professor of holocaust and genocide, studies at brown university present. thank so much for coming on, you know, as well as the, the debate between the, the 2 bankrolled candidates, the bank called by israelis, of course, in the united states. and the rest of the united states seems to be more and more pro palestinian. i'll give, leave it every minute, every hour on social media. everyone is seeing what is happening in the middle east . p lance at the british medical paper on peer review. just as we said, said under 96000, maybe in killed, complete estimate that would equate to 5000000 in britain. 27000000 in the usa and ralph nader, a man who himself may have saved more lives than anyone else cuz was endorsement of seat belt said it could be 300000 that have been killed some 15 percent given you

a scholarship on genocide can just contextualize the kinds of numbers in the absence of any actual peer reviewed vegas. well, 1st of all, thanks for having me. as you know, the numbers um m e. we don't know exactly what the numbers uh, we're relying on estimates square relying and what, how mazda is report, and we're relying on what these ratings are, reporting this for a few outside of service. so it's a bit hard to tell. one figure that i found, especially telling and of all price if it was discussed in pilots, in the hebrew version of it, the chase is the figure of an estimate to 2 percent of the population of guns that are being killed. and that if you compare it to other cases and the 21st century,

there's only one other case with 2 percent of the population were killed. and that's in syria. and syria took 13 years and we're talking about 10 months. so the scale of the more or less, very 5 killing that we can talk about right now is, you know, most, if you add to the, obviously estimates of how many people are buried under the deputy. and the long term repercussions of what has happened. and so they would speak about the streaming, the high numbers a quite a pulse of the destruction of, um, did you cation institutions, universities, schools, museums, mosques, basically, systematic destruction of guns, making it for the future. latrice that same tend, uninhabitable. yeah, but you know the criticisms of our reps and is really media which is actually

internationally. so might say to the, for of investigating the, the immediate roots of what happened. i mean, if you look at the, yeah, the on the, i don't know, the 28 helicopters emptied hundreds of 13 me the models on october. the 7th was on november. that's i'm kidding. so many is rainy jews, and r ets is coming to fi within israel. for being a mass mouthpiece, what's it like for you is a professor of the holocaust and the genocide to try and even the adjudicate on the evidence and what is actually happening and gaza? a look, i'm mostly based in the united states and i, i say what, i think the people who don't like it, the people do like it. when i went to israel in june, um, but as you may know, i tried to give a lecture. it's an easy way to university and they were protest against me. and

because of claiming that i had at that point indeed indicated that i thought a genocide was occurring casa. and so many students that were protesting against me, many of them were students who had served previously a shortly before that as we service in gaza itself. um, so yes, i think a, you know, obviously in israel, the many people who don't like my opinions, but i must say that people writing for a to live in israel be much more courageous that i am in rhode island. i want to get more onto your visit to, is rarely in june, but even what you just said there, about genocide, yukon, really here that on the american television in britain, there were reports of chromecast, sky, news, a present of being fired for even contextualizing ideas about the holocaust and

history with respect to the ongoing killing by british american european weaponry and gaza today. why? i mean, i don't know whether you have been invited to the cnn owned by warner brothers, a warner brothers. you know, you're not allowed to say that kind of thing. i i actually spoke with cnn months ago. um and pool um on her program at the time. admittedly. uh, i too was very cautious about uh, identifying uh what was happening. so as genocide um, you know, genocide is, is a very peculiar crime. if you examine what it is according to its definition by the u. n. and the un resolution of 1948 people tend to use that whenever they see something terrible happening. when uh,

thousands of people are being killed, butchered, people say, well, it must be genocide. but according to the un definition, which is a very specific one, and it's the only one that really matters in international know, you need to do more than that. you need to show that there's an intent to destroy a particular group such in whole or in part and that, that intent that is being implemented. and that's very hard to prove. so for a long time i to, i said that i thought the obviously war crimes happening, crimes against humanity, which do not needs to show intent. and it's only recently more or less since may, that i've come to the conclusion that what we're seeing seems to be channels. uh uh, so this is i was saying before an attempt by the idea of which is controlled by these really government to make life impossible for the population of

garza. and therefore, i have the to the ability to it, to the extent that the, the death told the would rise over time. not only from bones but also because of the terrible conditions to shoot me an extent and conditions. and because people will do everything they can to escape this. um, i'm not sure they will ever be able to prove the this is genocide and i'm not sure that the i c j which is deliberating. this will be able to conclude that this is genocide because one would need to find documentation that there was a plan, a consensus plan to carry the so um and because escrow is apparently not going to be taken over by another country has happened in germany after world war 2 of these documents, if they exist and they don't always exist,

people don't like producing such documents. but if they do exist, will either be destroyed or just kept in safe. so those are the individual comments from cabinet ministers and netanyahu's and government down to know if you need recordings. and it was just a, in the past, uh, uh, 72 hours the past week. we've had reports of recordings being stopped and at old know, taking a swimming stuff to cabinet meetings as they plan the mask because we're seeing or social media to correct. this is, this is one of the problems. i mean we've, we've heard reports that the, the early debates that were happening in the prime minister's office with the, the heads of the military were not recorded. and no notes will take a um, and i suspect that that was intentional. not necessarily because it was speaking about genocide, but also because the attorney out did not want to be burdened by the shoot

fiasco of october of of uh, october 7th. um and so in that sense, as i say that politically, those military leaders may make a statement, stood on the face of the general side of the statements. and they could be found guilty of incitement to general side by making these statements. because these are decision makers and people of influence who will have some impact on the social feeling for the on the like. statement by netanyahu is more incitement. it's not a comfortable events. you know, when one would have to deliberate that it's, it's definitely insights. ment, i mean the only thing international i have just is, hey, doesn't, i mean cream con, yeah, i see, see, prosecute has been ongoing on dependence show. i think he's still sitting on his hands about all of this. but i suppose more importantly for those countries with

due respect, it's the united states of the doesn't recognize these codes. would that mean that uh britain is uh, presented as a facilitator of genocide would be comfortable. it's a member of these quotes and other european nations and reporting and millions of dollars of weapons, jeanette, and yeah, for him to carry out the genocide. does it make them comfortable? yes, of course. i mean so, but even if you don't prove that it's genocide and it's only so to speak, only war crimes then in and that is much easier to prove. then countries let's keep supplying as ro wants to carry out this destruction in guns complicit, of course and, and most importantly is the united states. so in, in that's is, you know, one can argue whether it would be possible to prove that he's genocide or no. i think it would be much easier to prove that war crimes were committed and the

crimes against humanity, which is extermination of civilian populations, has occurred in countries the supply israel with often in breach of their own domestic news. oh, certainly part of it. yeah, i'm sorry. so the was the united states, as it's constantly monitoring the use of them. and we've heard the statements about power use, the costing a power of war. 2 of those things is, are essential. the sustainable, the no one seems to be hiring up about this of, you know, israel's been doing this for months now and decided african case of the international criminal court where the i, c, j was, you know, ages ago. so it means doesn't really matter. i'll give you does, and that's with the israeli population. you it, you are in june at them. a beer outside be a little bit cheaper. it, it had been glory and university. clearly the young people of israel do not simple your view. how to, you know, 1st of all the people of israel,

mostly i suspect don't support my view. the people who were there who were protesting me were members of extreme right wing organizations. i don't think that the politics reflects a general view of the population, but my view on garza is very different from the views of most israelis. and what is interesting here is that the many hundreds of thousands of societies who would like that to be a ceasefire. who would like to be a return with the hostages, and just hang on that professor. hey, i'll just stop you there. we'll get back to the hostages, or from the time of his all professor of holocaust and genocide, studies at brown university. after this break, the cars are expensive and i'm here to plan with you whatever you do. do not watch my

new show. seriously. why watch something that's so different little opinions that he won't get anywhere else. welcome to please or do you have the state department c, i a weapons, bankers, multi 1000000000 dollar corporations. choose your fax for you. go ahead. i changed and whatever you do, don't my show state main street because i'm probably going to make you uncomfortable. my show is called stretching time, but again, you probably don't wanna watch it because it might just change the way the welcome back to going underground. and i'm still here with the professor of all the cost of genocide studies at brown university on my boss or of the professor i interrupted you about to your audience. i have been going and university in june,

some of whom is riley jews. hated what you had to say in your analysis of what is being going on these past months, enabled by the weapons sent by the united states, britain in europe and union. right, so and my, my view is that what is interesting to me is the i fact large numbers of vis or anything. so i don't know if the majority or not, who would like that to be a cease fire, and would like to have the hostages back from casa dead and alive. but they are not interested in particular, in what is going on in guthrie itself. they don't trust and it's an, you know, they think the government, this incompetent, which it is, they think they're missing, you know, it's not reaching a deal because he's afraid to lose his cabinet and end up in jail. but they are not showing. that's what i was writing about, they're not showing much empathy for the people of guys who are being killed in

the name. and that's the the, the kind of conundrum the to see people in israel right now, and that's my impression of feel insecure. the country is becoming we could, people are exhausted by what is going on both of the internal political turmoil, the ongoing war displacement of tens of thousands of x rays of the entire north is being evacuated with hundreds of houses being destroyed, buses, rockets, but they are not really seeing any way out of this. they cannot think about a political resolution to this and invest us and just to neo has just somehow drug the population into thinking that the only way to continue is through violence rather than through reaching some kind of political resolution. no,

just to this crisis, but to the entire relationship between israel and the palestinians with this pre dates that and yahoo with the bogeyman as it were. and you know all of this and you've written about this. how does the holocaust do not see germany in form? and create the dial ground into which i should say, polls have shown that actually the extermination of old palestinians has quite a degree of popularity in, in israel, more extreme than even that yahoo and his ministers arguably. how does that play? what does this historical perspective that you've written about being a professor of holocaust and genocide studies him to be a societal mindset of? is there any jews a it's a, it's a, it's a complex issue. you know, it's a bit difficult to simplify, but i would say, you know, this row was created in the wake of the hollow quotes and all those on this and

began to of course, already in the late 19th century, the international community and many jews around the world after the holocaust felt that it was just the thing to do to allow the jews to have a state of their own assuming that much of the genocide of the jews it could because they didn't have their own state. um, initially in the early years of the state, the article is, was actually something that people were shamed of because that was this argument that i still remember growing up. the people when like sheep to the slaughter, and the only people who have thought of as an example with say, the rebels of the will. so get to those who 4th engagement season didn't just go through the gas chambers. but over time, this change and under previous, it is true. this was outside by the time you know, but certainly from the 19 seventy's and eighty's of them and nothing big in the the, the other prime minister from billy cooled. the whole eclipse came to form

a kind of glue for you to a society. and the idea of the eclipse became different. that is, that israel was not only created in the wake of the whole course as a, as a response to the course, but also was always on the threat of another honda course. and if anyone is wrecking this rule, was threatening it with genocide and therefore any response to that has to be an absolute response. those threats have to be wiped out. and so this understanding of the hold up with is both that kind of create the solidarity for society, the old and the young, and the religious and the secular and juice of them at least and choose from. you could always unite the ro, this notion that we were all potential victims of another whole cause also created the sense of vulnerability that any attempt to, to somehow,

particularly we've published in is an over land that, that one could somehow find some resolution to the conflict any attempt by palestinians to threaten israel was seeing his genocide baskets in the numerous amount of license to those, especially those politicians who would like to use it as a to of destruction. and by now and then to teneo over the last couple of decades. it has become the main way of speaking about it. to the extent the come of just thought a particularly an organization that the, the, that i would support become us with, with f a mattress means it was using on october 7th, is now described as a nazi organization, which is not whatever else one says about it and that the event of october 7th is described as an attempt to genocide and then the rest continuation of the holocaust,

which simply office skates the actual reasons for the balance between choose and purchase, the risk presumably that they have to present it so they can get the presidents, a tens of $10000.00 prisoners, a, our prisoners taken now hostage by these really so. so the ballast, any movement, say, i do with the, you know, some of what you said as being the into, as a propaganda tends to be amplified, it goes through hollywood over the years, exodus with paul newman, who knows what else. but i don't know, did you, if you've seen zone of interest by jonathan blazer about the house it's, and i don't know, i, i to perhaps the global cell to become a completely against israel in the car and conflict. the idea of a nova music festival on that day beside the law just open the prism come a in the world, according to the british prime minister david cameron. well, i mean, what goes to their minds in a society which could have a music festival by the rules of an offer of a camp. i mean,

i don't know whether you explain why we, with a zone of interest is relevant here. the great film about the nazis living near the house ritz, which was of course, eventually liberated by the soviet union. i mean, i'll tell you 2 things. first about the nova festival, i was asking about that. why was that happening there? and people are telling me it was happening there because of these festivals create a huge amount of noise pollution, and nobody wants that noise pollution. so what they did, they did it in that area, which is a sort of mt does a and they directed all the noise to what's going. so because who cares about noise pollution to go. so now if you think about the young people in guys who attract the in, that kind of get to be behind fences and, and so forth for them. they may also want to be in a festival like that, but they're not allowed to be in beth. and so i don't think the people who are

organizing the 1st of all, even thoughts about that before would break it. we can pollute noise towards garza . so it does show a complete indifference to would put a sentence and that is very much present the initial f for sort of interest. look, i mean i'm, i'm not a big fan of comparisons with the nazis, not by the people who support. uh, is there any policies and say from us that like the nazis and not by people who i guess is there any policies and say base rates or like the nazis? and that's no, actually, it's a very particular case and who the 1st was a very the common down to is portrayed in that movie was if a particular case you can make all kind of powers. but we don't need to compare with the article. so we can say that the jealous of the actions taken care of god. so as to where and many other cases in rwanda, in cambodia,

in and again see, i mean is we don't need to go directly to the general side to condemn what is what was doing. but as what is the reason for doing it specifically is because, as you said, the creation of israel allowed itself came out of out of that, which would then allows all schools one also to be able to remind people about the war. so we'll get through uprising and the bravery of the jews fighting the nazis. and then looking do, of course palestinian resistance groups and solidarity groups fighting as the justified. i'm the united nation resolution to using arms against their occupies absolutely. this is, i mean, this is why this situation, i mean 1st of all, it's tragic, but it's also failed with many of these, you have to remember that the genocide convention itself came into force very much

in response to what they don't see fit to the truth in world war 2 and to have the state of israel now being accused of that is, is, it is horrifying to many is where it is. but the fact of the matter is that according to the definition, what as far as doing though, can easily be seen as joseph. and the same is with the question of resistance. you're absolutely right. and it's not only resistance to the nazis. the, the, the heads of the both the, the left and the right in israel, where resistance fighters as they saw it during the 19th thirty's and forty's against british rule. and nothing big in was the head of the, of the going of the, um, uh, what's called an hickey. i'm going to show this. yes, absolutely. and so they certainly thought that it was the rights to fight for their own liberation and self determination as a people. but when palestinians oppose is radio oppression in occupied territories,

they can only call them terrorist that's, that's the big on any that it's impossible today for most is really is to understand. the purpose thing is resisting a pressure, which as you say, is legal by international. just finally we had done the i on the former deputy, the foreign minister of israel, and the show. he said it'd be quite simple that the 2000000 of guys that just vacated and went to design. i does it for a while. do you see is real as imploding a given what we've been seeing these the past 10 years so months? well, it's not including at the moment and i don't expect the end of israel what i think may happen. and i hope it doesn't. but what i think may happen is that if this was not stopped in what it's doing now, um, what will be created is a full blown upon it system. that's what nothing, you know, been very small to each of the people around them. that's what they want to people

say it's already the as well i, i would say that certainly the westbank isn't a perfect system. that a positive system is sort of seeping into israel. we saw it even before the war during the, the, the protest against the traditional cool and the 1st part of a 2023. and i think it may become much worse because now things on the west bank are getting fine, was it? so in a sense, is there a wants to, to, and guns a to do with bank and wanted to do with bank into guns and is using very similar to connex. and, but a in a profit state can exist any may exist for the code to decades. 3 decades, it will become increasingly isolated, impoverished, many people will leave it, and eventually, i think you will implode, they will implode in the says, maybe a little bit like south africa, that it will change. and it will become eventually,

hopefully, the safe for the citizens. but that may take a very long time and a great deal of blood will be shut before it happens. professor, i'm about to thank you. thank you. and that's it for the show. i'll continue condolences to those very value you as you um, genocide will be back with a brand new episode on the south of the angel. then keep in touch with i will i social media? if it's not sensitive, we will country and had to our channel going on. the run tv on rumble, don't come to us and you know that besides going under grants, he sat there the, there was a time when i started to was abused to retain flowers divided the

continental block for the amounts themselves. it was divided as a hunting ground. if we do not unite the corner knives as we come again, we know that they are those who want the mazda continental, this designate but the mazda clinton, and never be stopped, because the mazda continent must be great. she will only be great on the shoulders of our sons and daughters on by the sun all day. so now click on the goodwill time full on let us confess about underground east the mazda. upon the, the doing on august, the 6 ukrainian troops across the border and the launch the full scale and caution, that the rest, as co squeaking. we could,

we could says we put in or focusing their offensive on subjects, battelle, near the border of the soldier. the scope was to several settlements was seized with this. the thing is we're also special model, the commercial subsidy, ellipse video reps. video with russian troops moved out to the back of the counter terrorism operation regime was imposed and the course for the odds can funds they'll go out. regents from performance reporting a fire and looking at that invoice reflects the motor and then as the level of support cancelled. and you said you're listed in the study, the,

the, the, an american with a long history of felonies in the us to also try to recruit mercenaries for ukraine . we take a closer look at the legs, the suspect in the 2nd assassination attempts on donald trump. disconsolate, definitely black and white. this is about good versus evil. you know, you're drains and the rest of the world are caring john, and generous on self concept. considering the suspects involvements and the ukraine complex. some prominent figures are now speculating whether a person with such a history might be acting under orders alleged from shooters personal and public participate.