well, as the debates between the, the 2 bankrolled candidates, their bank called by israelis, of course, in the united states, and the rest of the united states seems to be more and more profiler spinning you know, given leave it every minute, every hour on social media. everyone is seeing what is happening in the middle east, the lancet. the british medical paper and peer reviewed, just as we said, said a 186000 maybe in killed, complete estimate. that would equate to 5000000 in britain, 27000000, and usa and ralph nader, a man who himself may have saved more lives than anyone else cuz was endorsed with a seat belt, said it could be 300000 that have been killed some 15 percent given you a scholarship on genocide can just contextualize the kind of numbers in the absence of any actual peer reviewed vegas. well, 1st of all, thanks for having me. you know, the numbers um m e,

we don't know exactly what the numbers uh, we're relying on estimates we're relying and what, how mazda is report and we're relying on what the strategies are reporting this for a few outside of service. so it's a bit hard to tell one figure that i found especially telling and of all price if it was discussed in pilots. in the hebrew version, that of interest is the figure of an estimate to 2 percent of the population of guns that are being killed. and that if you compare it to other cases and the 21st century, there's only one of the case with 2 percent of the population were killed. and that's in syria. but in syria took 13 years and we're talking about 10 months. so the scale of the more or less, very 5 killing that we can talk about right now is, you know, most, if you add to the,

obviously estimates of how many people are buried under the deputy and the long term repercussions of what is happening. so they would speak about the extremely high numbers quite apart from the destruction of, um, could you cation institutions, universities, schools, museums, mosques, basically, systematic destruction of guns, making it for the future. latrice that same tend, uninhabitable. yeah. but you know, the criticisms of our reps and uh, is really media which is actually internationally somebody'd say to the 4 of investigating the, the immediate roots of what happened. i mean, if you look at the, yeah, the on the hour and on the $28.00, helicopters emptied hundreds of 13 me the models on october, the 7th, more to the looked at them killing so many as rainy jews. and r ets is coming to

fire within israel for being a mass mouthpiece. what's it like for you is a professor of the holocaust and the genocide to try and even the adjudicate on the evidence and what is actually happening and gaza will look. i'm mostly based in the united states and i, i say what, i think the people who don't like it. people do like it. when i went to israel in june, as you may know, i tried to give a lecture. it's an easy way to university and they were protest against me. um, because of claiming that i had at that point indeed indicated that i thought a genocide was occurring casa. and so many students that were protesting against me, many of them were students who had served previously a shortly before the b service in gaza itself. um, so yes,

i think a, you know, obviously in israel, the many people who don't like my opinions, but i must say that people writing for a to live in israel be much more courageous that i am in rhode island. i want to get more onto your visit to is rarely in june. but even what you just said there about genocide, you can't really hear that. on the american television in britain, there were reports of comcast sky news a present to being fired for even contextualizing ideas. about the whole of cost and history with respect to be ongoing killing by british american european weaponry in gaza today. why i mean, i don't know whether you have been invited to the cnn owned by a warner brothers, a warner brothers. you know, you're not allowed to say that kind of thing. i i actually spoke with cnn months

ago. um and for, um, on her program at the time. admittedly. uh, i too was very cautious about uh, identifying uh what was happening. uh so as genocide um, you know, genocide is, is a very peculiar crime. if you examine what it is according to its definition by the u. n. and the un resolution of 1948 people tend to use that whenever they see something terrible happening. when uh, thousands of people are being killed, butchered people say, well, it must be general side, but according to the un to finish and which is a very specific one. and it's the only one that really matters in international. no, you need to do more than that. you need to show that there's an intent to destroy

a particular group such in whole or in part. and that that intent then is being implemented. and that's very hard to prove. so for a long time, i to the said that i thought the obviously war crimes happening, crimes against humanity, which do not needs to show intent. and it's only recently more or less since may, that i've come to the conclusion that what we're seeing seems to be channels. uh so this is i was saying before an attempt by the idea of which is controlled by these really government to make life impossible for the population of garza. and therefore, i have the ability to it, to the extent that the, the death told the would rise over time not only from bones but also because of the terrible conditions the. she went to town and conditions. and because people will

do everything they can to escape this. um, i'm not sure they will ever be able to prove this is genocide. and i'm not sure that the i c j which is deliberating. this will be able to conclude that this is genocide because one would need to find documentation that there was a plan, a concert as planned to carry the so um and because this row is apparently not going to be taken over by another country, is happening. germany after world war 2 of these documents, if they exist and they don't always exist, people don't like producing such documents. but if they do exist, will either be destroyed or just kept in safe. so those are the individual comments from cabinet ministers in netanyahu's and government down to know if you need recordings. and of course the, just a, in the past uh uh, 72 hours the past week. we've had reports of recordings being stopped and at

old know, taking a meeting stopped in cabinet meetings as they plan the master because we're seeing or social media to correct. this is, this is one of the problems. i mean we've, we've heard reports that the, the early debates that were happening in the prime minister's office with the heads of the military were not recorded and no notes were taken. um, and i suspected that was intentional. not necessarily because it was speaking about genocide but, but also because the attorney out did not want to be burdened by the huge fiasco of october of, of the october 7th. and so in that sense, as i say that politically, this military leaders may make a statement, stood on the face of the general side of the statements. and they could be found

guilty of incitement to general side by making these statements. because these are decision makers and people of influence who will have some impact on the so just on the, on the like statement by netanyahu is more incitement. it's not a comfortable hey, that's, you know, when one would have to deliberate that it's, it's definitely inside smith. i mean, the only thing international i have just has, hey, doesn't, i mean cream con, yeah. i see. see, prosecute has been ongoing on dependence show. i think he's still sitting on his hands about all of this, but i suppose more importantly for those countries with due respect to the united states of the doesn't recognize these codes. would that mean that uh britain is uh presented as a facilitator of genocide would be comfortable. it's a member of these quotes and other european nations that are pouring in millions of dollars of weapons, jeanette, and yeah, for him to carry out the genocide. does it make them comfortable?

yes, of course. i mean so, but even if you don't prove that it's genocide and it's only so to speak, only war crimes then in and that is much easier to prove. then countries let's keep supplying as row wants to carry out this destruction in guns complicit of course and, and most importantly is the united states. um, so in, in that says, you know, one can argue whether it would be possible to prove that his genocide or no, i think it would be much easier to prove that war crimes were committed. and the crimes against humanity, which is extermination of civilian populations, has occurred in countries that are supplying israel with, often in breach of their own domestic rules of surgery. part of it. yeah, i'm sorry. so the i was the united states as it's constantly monitoring the use of

them. and we've heard the statements about power use the cutting of power of the water. of those things. is there a central, the sustainable is the no one seems to be hiring up about this, you know, israel's been doing this for months now and decided african case of the international committee. cool. where the i c, j was, you know, ages ago. so it means doesn't really matter. i'll give you those and that's with the israeli population. you it, you are in june. it them a beer outside be a little bit cheaper. it, it had been glory and university. clearly the young people of israel do not simple . your view, how to, you know, 1st of all the people of israel, mostly i suspect don't support my view. the people who were there who were protesting me were members of extreme right wing organizations. i don't think that the politics reflects a general view of the population, but my view on garza is very different from the views of most as ratings. and

what is interesting here is that the many hundreds of thousands of societies who would like that to be a ceasefire. who would like to be a return with the hostages. and just hang on that professor, i think i'll just stop you there. we'll get back to the hostages, or from the time of his art professor of all the course and genocide studies of brown university. after this break, the, [000:00:00;00]

the scott bennett, i'm a former united states army psychological warfare officer, really served in the state department counterterrorism office under investor del daily the . so i wanted to come here to russia in the dawn bass area and to gather the facts, to take back to the american people. the hold on bass of the front line. so this is where the bombs and the bullets are raging. this is where people are dying. this is where the buildings are exploding

the all. i wanted to see 1st hand the scars of war, the welcome back to going underground. and i'm still here with the professor of all the course to genocide studies at brown university on my boss or of professor i interrupted you about uh your audience uh at uh, ben gloria and university in june. some of whom is riley jews. hated what you had to say in your analysis of what is being going on these past months, enabled by the weapons sent by the united states, britain in europe and union. right, so and my, my view is that what is interesting to me is that the,

i fact large numbers of israeli. so i don't know if the majority or not, uh, who would like that to be a cx 5. and would like to have the hostages back from guys than a live um, but they are not interested in particular in what is going on in guthrie itself. uh, they don't trust it to teneo. they think the government, this incompetent, which it is, they think they've missed any o, is not reaching a deal because he's afraid to lose his cabinet and end up in jail. but they are not showing. that's what i was writing about. they're not showing much empathy for the people of guys who are being killed in the name. and that's the, the, the kind of conundrum the to see people in israel right now, and that's my impression of feel insecure. the country is becoming we could,

people are exhausted by what is going on, both of the internal political turmoil, the ongoing war displacement of tens of thousands of it's varies. the entire north is being evacuated with hundreds of houses being destroyed, buffers, blah rocket. but they're not really seeing any way out of this. they cannot think about a political resolution to this. and in that system has to neo, has just somehow drug the population into thinking that the only way to continue is through violence rather than through reaching some kind of political resolution notes as to this crisis, but to the entire relationship between israel and the palestinians. but this pre dates that in yahoo with the bogeyman as it were in all of this. and you've written about this. how does the holocaust do not see germany in form and create the photo ground into which?

and i should say, pals have shown that actually, uh, the extermination of all palestinians as quite a degree of popularity in, in israel, more extreme than even that yahoo and his ministers arguably, well, how does that play? what does this historical perspective that you've written about being a professor of holocaust and genocide studies him to be a societal mindset of? is there any jews it's a, it's a, it's a complex issue. you know, it's a bit difficult to simplify, but i would say, you know, israel was created in the wake of the hollow quotes and all those on as it began. and of course already in the late 19th century, the international community and many jews around the world of to the holocaust, felt that it was the just thing to do to allow the jews to have a state of their own. assuming that much of the genocide of the jews it could because they didn't have their own state. um, initially in the early years of the state, the article is,

was actually something that people were ashamed of because that was this argument that i still remember growing up. the people would like sheep to the slaughter. and the only people who have thought of as an example with say, the rebels of the woods. so get to those who 4th engagement sees and didn't just go through the gas chambers. but over time, this change and on the previous slide it is true. this was outside by teneo, but certainly from the 19 seventy's and eighty's of them and nothing big in the the, the other prime minister from billy cooled. the holocaust came to form a kind of glue for you to a society. and the idea of the eclipse became different. that is, that israel was not only created in the wake of the whole course as a, as a response to the course, but also was always on the threat of another hold. of course. and if anyone is

wrecking this rule, was threatening it with genocide and therefore any response to that have to be an absolute response. those threats have to be wiped out. and so this understanding of the homework was his, both that kind of create the solidarity for society, the old and the young, and the religious and the secular and juice of them at least and choose from. you could always unite the ro, this notion that we were all potential victims of another whole cause also created the sense of vulnerability that any attempt to, to somehow, particularly with police. 10 is an over land that, that one could somehow find some resolution to the conflict, any attempt by palestinians to threaten israel was seeing this general science of venice gives, in the numerous amount of license to those,

especially those politicians who would like to use it as a to of destruction, and by now under, in ateneo, over the last couple of decades, it has become the main way of speaking about it. to the extent the come of just thought a particularly an organization that the, that, that i would support. but some us with, with f a mattress means it was using on october 7th, is now described as a nazi organization, which is not whatever else one says about it. and that the event of october 7th is described as an attempt to genocide and then the rest continuation of the holocaust, which simply office gave the actual reasons for the violence between jews and police that i mean, it was presumably the thing at the prisoner. so they can get the presidents, a tens of 10000 prisoners, our prisoners taken hostage by these really so. so the palestinian movement say i do do with the you know, some of what you said as being and as a propaganda tends to be amplified,

it goes through hollywood over the years. x it is a full newman who knows what else, but i don't know. did you? if you've seen zone of interest by jonathan blazer about the house it's and i don't know i, i to perhaps the global sell to become a completely against is railing. the car and conflict, the idea of a nova music festival on that day beside the law just open the prism account. i in the world, according to the british prime minister dave cameron. well, i mean, what goes through their minds in a society which could have a music festival by the rules of a, of a camp. i mean, i don't know whether explain why we, with a zone of interest is relevant to you. the great film about the nazis living near the house ritz, which was of course, eventually liberated by the soviet union to make. i mean, i'll tell you 2 things. first about the nova festival, i was asking about that. why was that happening there?

and people telling me it was happening there because the festivals creates a huge amount of noise pollution and nobody wants that noise pollution. so what they did, they did it in that area, which is a sort of mt does a and they directed all the noise to what's going so because who cares about noise pollution? to go. so now if you think about the young people in garza who attract the end, that's kind of get to be behind fences and and so forth. for them. they may also want to be in a festival like that, but they're not allowed to be in bath. and so i don't think the people who are organizing the 1st of all, even thoughts about that before would break it. we can pollute noise towards garza . so it does show a complete indifference to wood percent is and that is very much present in israel as for sort of interest. look, i mean i'm, i'm not a big fan of comparisons with the nazis,

not by the people who support. uh, is there any policies and say from us at like the ninety's and not the people who i guess is there any policies and say base rates or like the nazis and that's no of our streets. it's a very particular case and who the 1st was a very the common down to is portrayed in that movie was if a particular case, you can make all kinds of paolo's, but we don't need to compare with a hollow core. we can say that the jealous of the actions taken care and gone so as to where in many other cases in rwanda, in cambodia, in and again see, i mean is we don't need to go directly to the general side to condemn what is what was doing but actually was, the reason for doing it is reciprocally is because, as you said, the creation of israel ad itself came out of out of that, which would then allows of course,

one also to be able to remind people about the war. so we'll get through uprising and the bravery of the jews fighting the nazis. and then looking, do of course palestinian resistance groups and solidarity groups fighting as the justified under united nation resolution to using arms against their occupies absolutely. this is, i mean this is why this situation. i mean, 1st of all, it's tragic, but it's also failed with many on is, is you have to remember that the genocide convention itself came into for us very much in response to what the known as he said to the truth in world war 2. and to have the state of israel now being accused of that is, is it is horrifying to many it's where it is. but the fact of the matter is that according to the physician, what as far as doing know, can easily be seen as well. so and the same is with the question of resistance.

you're absolutely right. and it's not only resistance to the nazis. the, the, the heads of the both the, the left and the right. and israel, where resistance fights us as a source during the 19 fifties and for peace against british rule. and nothing big in was the head of the, of the going of the, um, uh, what's called in hickey. i'm going to show this. yes, absolutely. and so they certainly thought that it was the rights to fight for their own liberation and self determination as a people. but when palestinians oppose is ready to oppression in occupied territories, they can only cool them terrorist that's, that's the big on any. but it's impossible today for most this really is to understand the protestant is resisting the pressure, which as you say, is legal by international. just finally we had done the i on the former deputy,

the foreign minister of israel on the show. he said it'd be quite simple if the 2000000 of guys that just vacated. we went to design. i does it for a while. do you see israel as imploding a given what we've been seeing these the past 10 or so months? well, it's not including of the moment and i don't expect the end of israel, what i think may happen and i hope it doesn't. but what i think may happen is that if this was not stopped in what is doing now. um, what will be created is a full blown upon it system. that's what nothing, you know, been very small to each of the people around them. that's what they want to people say it's already that as well. i, i would say that certainly the westbank isn't a profit system that a positive system is sort of seeping into israel. we saw it even before the war during the, the,

the protest against the traditional cool in the 1st part of 2023. and i think it may become much worse because now things on the west bank are getting fine. was it? so in a sense, is there a wants to turn guns a to the west bank and wants it to the west bank into gauze, and it's using very similar techniques and, but a in a profit state can exist any may exist for the code to decades. 3 decades, it will become increasingly isolated, impoverished, many people will leave it, and eventually, i think you will implode, they will implode in the says, maybe a little bit like south africa, that it will change. and it will become eventually, hopefully, the safe for the citizens. but that may take a very long time and a great deal of blood will be shut before top. it's professor, i'm about to thank you. thank you. and that's it for the show. i'll continue condolences to those very value you as you um, genocide will be back with

a brand new episode on the south of angel. then keep in touch by the social media, if it's not sense and we'll country and have to, i channel going, undergoing tv on mobile, they'll come to what's new and old episodes going under grants. is that the, the, [000:00:00;00] the, in 1884, the german empire began its colonial invasion. internet may be from the very start . berlin encourage the white calling is to settle in south west africa and take away the best land from the local drive. the germans were actively draining natural

resources and using the local population as a cheap labor source. this was causing major protests and led to rebuild your in 19 o 4 here, aero. and now my drive is rebuild against german colonial rule. kaiser wilhelm the 2nd was fully determined and ordered to suppress the rebellion with the up most severe a date against the inhabitants of nam may be germany through it's 15000 well equipped army all around the country. concentration camps were built in humane medical experiments over citizens were conducted within the period of 4 years. the german, skilled up to 60000 people, among which they were 80 percent of the here railroad tried and 50 percent of the number dried. the events in south west africa are called the 1st genocide of the 20th century, and not without reason are compared to the holocaust just just do decades later

after the massacre in nam may be a hitler's a solid unit boat on the same brown colonial uniform which supports the world into the chasm of the 2nd world war, the line, scott bennett, i'm a former united states army psychological warfare officer, really served in the state department counterterrorism office under investor del daily. so i wanted to come here to russia in the dawn bass area and gather the facts to take back to the american people for the course or