the, the time action or sensory and welcome back to going underground rule got single around the world from the u. a as a pro ukraine militants in contact with the native nation media became the latest would be donald trump, assassin, the genocide continues here. and then at least while the full expands and the globe back from the bible, harris proxy war in europe may not be fully known. the u. s. u. k u, i'm just sold on palestine is now engaging human 11 and iraq. iran saudi arabia, syria and the entire global south. as on the estimates of the killed reach, hundreds of thousands and gaza, mostly women and children today is the so called u. n. international day. of peace, it's dedicated to the absence of war and violence, coinciding with something called

a piece one day global ceasefire campaign. no one seems to have told lucky boeing, raphael northrop grumman b a systems and others who shareholders financially benefit from the native proxy college today is also the start if it runs heavily defense week walking. be catastrophe of nature. nation support for iraqi dictator. saddam hussein this yeah, commemorations a hell doctor and he's really a trustee and lebanon healed a wounded thousands, including he runs ambassador as well as around renewing friendly relations with saudi arabia and the u. a. joining me now from l. a is a historian of the middle east and also in the states of resistance, politics, culture and identity, and more than iran trust. all right, dr. od. thank you so much for coming on. so as he said, international peace dave is being recorded before the events of the bus 24 hours as regards the israel's next move here in, in the middle east. why is your pin tweet? i notice on your x time line blaming nato country journalists as much as anyone

else for the genocide in guys. well, the treat actually goes back to which is sort of indicative of the, the longer view of this narrative and in western media in western political discourse. that we just from 2021 and it's regarding of evictions posting new families being expelled from their homes in east jerusalem. and really when you look at that idea, you realize that in the western narrative, not only has this sort of narrative of white washing, israel's kinds existed for a long time predating the events of this last year and the genocide and gaza. but the idea of the east jerusalem, gaza the westbank, they're all interconnected. and yet the way that the narrative is within the west has to separate them into the apartment allies, them as if they are not all part of the posting in territory and posting integration in general. can you change the words of these headlines in the so

called the main stream, either in, in nato nations. um, you might have to give us some examples and, and daily the, going out on social media not really affecting the media. you're attacking implicitly for, i suppose, hiding and disguising the mass soldier of, of untold numbers of women and children, and women and children. yeah, i mean, you were looking at a language of dehumanization that and what the white washing of prime so right. so there's 2 sort of components to it. it's the way that the narrative is told in order to avoid culpability for israel responsibility for israel's actions. right, so you'll see patterns where mainstream western outlets will avoid actually meaning israel within their headlines, right? they will not attribute attacks to is really just an air strike or something and causes flattened where people are simply killed,

but the source of who is killing them or what killed them or whose air strike it was that is often not attributed to is really even though that is the state that is taking the action or the actors that is acting in that situation. and then there's the fact that the word choices themselves, right? when often when palestinians are killed, of the workshop is not use, they simply died. they are not victims in the same way. they are collateral damage, palestinians even not word itself. palestinian sometimes not use. so you'll see west bank presidents or guardians, be use arabs in some cases, a broad term referring to arrows within the larger world rather than again, palestinians, palestine, occupation, genocide. these are all words that are avoided as much as possible within, within western media. and something that i think is important to note always in these situations is there is a difference between the reporters and the institutions. right? so i think they're often see reporters and they're having internal stories of

internal struggle within some of these institutions. and even people who and we've seen this within the political system in the united states as well. people who are resigning from the state department because they do not agree with the best policy . but it's the institutions that are protecting is real and it's actions. and they're doing so by to humanize in palestinians and the process because most of the human rights as entire populations. this is how you justify attacks that are happening that are truly a majority of which are killing civilians. i mean even gaza alone. you have, i think the, the latest official dental, which are all under estimates assess something close to 17000 children, have been killed in the last 11 months. the only way to attempt to whitewash a crime of that magnitude institutionalize the population in which those crimes are being carried out against. yeah, as ralph nader, the man is al, give me save all people than anyone else for fighting. the auto industry said that

it may be close to 300000 all adults. so we really don't know that the figures during this i'm being allowed in by the israeli government. but then, i mean, i've worked in these news rooms at the highest level, bbc and cnn, and palestine is not allowed to be use as a to and so are you saying that people, if you're not blaming the report is, i mean i took the names down of a few, these people virginia mos get cnn. these are top level editors, tim david, bbc, joseph, con, and your time savvy. but we have the washington post politico john harris, the hill above to sac fox news bulk in the port of berry. and these are the names of these people, sky news, jonathan levy. i've a complicit in genocide, rebecca bloom and china nbc news. alicia, call them these are the highest level. editorial people the bbc has more to worry about. gimme because their highest page and this is just being done for child abuse . but what about all these people? the names i mentioned they do, they need to be in your book southcourt for these people. i think is certainly

media complicity. and when i say, well, the reason i point out the fact that there are reporters who are trying to do good work is because i don't think we can paint everybody with one brush, right. i think there are certainly reporters within these institutions that are, that do take issue with what's going on and do try to do good reporting. but there are that ice or the bbc, i'm sorry to interrupt. i'm having a long time, 30 years of experience. i didn't see many, i know all these different institutions. what about american media? and i knew where i gave them, why, why did they make a big deal of this american that was shot dead. so let me base my answer on the fact that i also watch a state department briefings in white house briefings every day. right? so i see, and there's a large portion of people in the room for not really pushing back. but there are reporters who are pushing back, they're trying to get the answers. and so that's why i say, i just don't think that the, that i think that the attack is more appropriate on the, on people who are visions of power versus the reporters or trying to report what

they are right. that anybody who writes an article knows that it's not the journalist that picks the headline, right? it's the editor. it's the headline. so in terms of complicity, i would say the complicity is higher up. typically, of course, there are probably journalists who don't who, who agree or use egregious language in certain situations intentionally so, but my point is more to say that there are certain lever, especially within independent world, was even within the mainstream media. i think there are individual reporters that are trying to do good work in terms of complicity. the media is broad. simplicity is extremely important and they certainly are complicit . and as a historical example of this, right, we're looking at something that's happening right now. but if you look back to the invasion of iraq in 2003, the job of the media, the in a, in what we champions of repressed right in the western world. the idea that we have a free press is champion, is the cornerstone of democracy. and yet, what does it mean to have a free press? the free press means you don't repeat what the official state narrative is. you

don't just listen to whatever the president said. so that means it's true, you challenge that narrative because the job of the journalist is to find truth. and in the case of 2003 invasion of iraq, that's absolutely not what the media did, the media paired, whatever the, by the bush administration's, that at the time, which we now know as a fact we're fabricated lies. but they didn't challenge it at the time, and that's the kind of reporting that we need to be seeing something that challenges the idea that, you know, if israel says they're targeting militants, this is just repeated as fact. whereas in reverse, if we're talking about the bias within the, within the media, when policy needs are killed, you very, very often see a copy of the audit, right? it says hospital says the health industry says in sometimes, especially with the bbc, how must run goals or health ministry says because they want to cast doubt on those numbers. and yet when israel says they were targeting militants, or tomas was in that score mosse, there was

a total under that university that is treated as fact. and so that is the problem with the way that the narrative is being presented. were one side that has a record of lying right? there are reports of even from the new york times and the washington post and cnn. and they come out and say, you know what? evidence shows that the is really narrative was not accurate. even when that happens in the headlines, they are often still treated as fact. and that is, i think the why you see the complicity of, of the media. their job is to challenged the state not copy yet. no parrot. and of course, other outlets, a band and on social media as well, let alone television networks in the united as regards in the united states and europe. but then again to the blame, if it's not the individual journalist you're saying there are wonderful exceptions, which i suppose maybe the case. so there's very difficult to say uh when comparing the footage on your phone, scrolling up with what the rest of things it means you're advertised at the top

advertises over there in the u. s. spoke to him, gamble have the g s. k big pharma. basically, disney another from a company another. no, it is google pepsi, amazon. they're paying the money for all these broad costs that are clearly tried to minimize in the amount of american public imagination. the scale of the atrocity we're witnessing that most people in the global south considered to be you know, holocaust. i mean that's why, but that's how you, kamala harrison is holocaust virus. and by the genocide you, i mean the, you know, when you look at it the way that the entire world sees this. but the vast, vast majority of the world sees this issue. you can see it within, you know, un boats, boats by the united nations. right? if you look at the way that the united nations has voted on countless resolutions having to do with condemning israel or enforcing international law for the sake of

palestinians. you see that where the minority lies and you see where the vast majority of the world lies. and so there's a reason why that kind of the, the media division would happen that way as well. um, in terms of the corporate media that you're talking about, i mean, that's the question of that questions the, the entire notion of the free press as well, is it a free press if it's actually, if it's concerned, is profitability. if the idea is to profit the now those corporations wield some kind of power. busy over the types of narratives that are coming out of these media platforms, and at the same time that corporate power is exerted within directly within our political system as well. i mean, you can get into the power of the very lobbies that you just referred to as several of the companies that you were talking about. whether you're talking about pharmaceutical companies, or whether you're talking about for in lobbies like a pack in israel's lobby, within the us. the way that money operates within the political system also lends itself to corruption within that system. for us, all right,

i'll stop you there. more from the historian in the middle east, after this break, the lease of the russian states never as one of the most sense community best. most all sense of the, in the 6595 has been anyone else calls question about this, even though we will then in the european union, the kremlin media mission, the state on russia cruising and split the ortiz full neck, even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube, the senior citizen, for the question, did you say stephen twist, which is the

the welcome back to going underground. that is still here with the story in the middle east and all through the stage of resistance, politics, culture and identity, and more than they run on. don't trust. all right, dr. idea and talking about the freedom of the press, i think see, well hush was on this row. and i think he intimated that you know, that, that basically isn't one. do you think any of these uh, john, listen, these news rooms in nato countries understand that piece is breaking out in this region aside from palestine. the saudi arabia is made friends again with their on,

with syria, that as it has as, as the way where i'm speaking to you, that in the rest of this region through huge ties being forge outside of the nature of frameworks and washington proxy frameworks. the ladies on us adversaries or western adversaries, i should say more broadly. um are involved in the normalization process. not treated the same way, right? if you, if you just oppose the way, say a chinese brokered well chinese broker. but then also there was a lot of regional actors like oman, for instance, and got to who very often are in the background. a doing a lot of that diplomatic work when it's appropriate between 2 states, like saudi arabia and iran, that is not treated in the same way as se the abraham affords in the idea that there is normalization between arab states and, and israel. and that's because it doesn't fit the, again, it doesn't fit the political narrative,

it doesn't fully fit the political discourse. and so that's where you really see this overlap between the media or the mainstream media i should say. and what is the political discourse of the state? now, why is this important? because that's what supposed to, i mean, that's what, according to western officials themselves. this is what differentiates, you know, the story. terry and state has state run media versus a free western democracy that has a free press. the idea is that it's not supposed to simply mimic whatever the state is saying, but in most cases you see that so you see normalization attempts of normalization between saudi arabian, a wrong to significant sort of a orange foes, as they're depicted within uh, within the west and you see normalization with other countries with the wrong. that's one of the things that the, the ronnie, the is honorable like is focused on in recent years is diplomacy within its own neighborhood, right? diplomacy within the region, a look east versus a look west,

and that is never going to be painted as a positive development because as long as it's western adversaries who are having peaceful relations or trying to normalize relations, that's not on the political agenda within those western countries, so it's not treated the same way. they're not, they're not even treated as alliances when there are a lot, as is right there called foxy's. you never hear the word alliance being used. there are no allies, apparently in the region. there's just proxies within the region, whereas when you're talking about the western world, fuel lines isn't allies. so all of that difference in language is really just, it's not the actions of the states that matter. it's who is taking those actions. so i will washington, have punish savvy arabia then for not playing boys clear from blinking and sullivan that they have. i hope so, even though time and time again, saudi arabia said no, we won't. we won't increase oil supply when they wanted them to. we was normalized with israel and yeah, give you a june in nato myisha, you'd think. yeah,

it's really on the cards this great to buy them, the house administration. the idea of the uniting saudi arabian with is really we people are horrified in jesus. the countries that they can even think that would happen. well, you know it's, it's funny to even a saudi arabia, in the budget ministration. because if you remember during the 2020 elections and joe biden sort of famously called, uh sorry, ravia to apply a state. right. and he said he would treat it as a prior state. and of course, t, once he became president of, there was the, the fish pump with n b s. that was criticized largely in the west because that was one of the platforms that joe biden ran on. he was going to be tough on saudi arabia. so when you asked about punishment, i don't see where i don't see how this administration is in any way exacted, you know, for punishment on, sorry review whatsoever. when it came to the case of the killing of drama for

surely the same thing, us divided and ministration said that, well now we have details that perhaps that was the i opened the 1st place and it shows you the position was highly suspicious and altogether and otherwise talked about the, but i, you know, i want to get onto this harris since november elections. very big isn't. it? will flits to remind everyone used to work at a package the cnn during the list. and donna bash was the person who was major ca, linked to chief of stuff as being harris chose her down the bus to get the 1st interview from paying that the election is being election. interference is not the russians. it is clearly israel that as a stranglehold of the elections in the united states or something that's very talked about the influence of uh, not, not only within the lobbies. right. so you have the sort of open source information of, i mean a pack boast about this idea, right?

always look a packing doors, you know, candidates, one their elections here, the amount of money that a bag of spending on defeating any candidate who has, who is basically just criticizing the state of israel in any way. and all of that is in the open. what's talked about less are the sort of covert influence campaigns . you'll see a few headlines and a few stories within western media, but it's not covered in the same wall to wall coverage. you get when, for instance, the target is russia. when the target, when the discussion is about israel info is really influenced campaigns, you really don't get very much coverage on it. and yet there's very clear indications that those influence campaigns are happening not only out in the open, but also covertly. i mean, you can look back in at the, it stories of israel spying on the us back in 2015 again. these things go if covered, barely covered and they're not presented with the same alarm. and i think that's

one of the, the key distinctions. there is no alarmist attitude towards the fact that this has happened. it gets almost common place. it's okay. it is real spies on, on us officials. it's okay. is realist covertly trying to influence us politics? in some ways the, the, the lines are blurred between is really influenced as being for an influence. if you think about the fact that you have us officials, right, representative of the us government going to the capital in idea of uniforms, right. and is really military uniforms. i mean, there is a very, the relationship between the us and israel and the influence that is real has on us politics is quite strong, but it's not something that you is readily available within the western media narrative. yeah, i mean you can see why when people make these points that are the whole true. the immediate reaction is anti semitism says on people who make these accusations,

they destroyed the one most popular and labor leaders in england, the jeremy coleman, making accusations like this and talking like this because it still seems even from us. i'd be serious because you're saying these are opponents on the ground of trying to do their best. they're trying to do their best. there is a pack which is going to be that's just the israeli state doing it. who are the individuals in the bible? harris administration and on the trump campaign r f. k. junior enjoys and gab had recently jointed, that both opposed to any ceasefire and gaza. who is responsible for, for me, is it's the israeli state that is running american democracy in general. or the, these individuals, i mean, the danny donors, to the trump campaign, one donor in particular has been named the widow of a casino owner. so when other kid a us policy within is really part, sorry us policy visa,

be israel in terms of responsibility starts at the top. i mean, the president of the united states is the one who's setting up these policies of the vice president. now come, all harris is supporting those policies and even though it's paid by a pack right there, but bankrolled by 8 back by $900.00 and say well they, they certainly receive uh, funding from a pack. yes. as well as other lobbying groups. i think that's important to point out to because there are a lot of, uh, within the american political system, there are significant lobbying groups, which is the other reasons why we get policies not only outside of, for an outside of foreign policy within domestic us policy. there are policies that go against with the bi partisan majority of americans. what, why does that happen? why is there a disconnect between what our politicians actually enforce as policy versus when it's not with the bi partisan majority? will of the people is it because you have powerful loved ones and it's not just these really. why do you also have, for instance, a pharmaceutical office, right? you have arms, manufacturers, you have reasons why, why we have english forever,

wars and inflating military budget that goes higher and higher, despite the fact that the bite administration withdrew from afghanistan and, and boasted about this idea that over ending america as long as the war, i'm following that, following the end of america, as long as the war, they increased the military budget again. so what, what explains this kind of phenomenon is, is multiple lobbies that are working within the insurance. now that the arab league not to the arab league, just give a few brief cases to divide the ministration. and suddenly they've care about the dying mother to school, to children of guys that know because i think it's more complex, right? i think you can just break it down as, as that is the only factor. then you're simplifying something where there's also, i mean, there are strong cultural and i do logical re within this as well, right? because of the way that this, this is not new, this narrative is not new within this country. so you see it not only within the

media but also within the popular culture discourse and also within the political discourse. and this has been the case for many decades. so there's also an ideological component that i think is often left out of it when you have joe biden was talking about very proudly the idea that he's designers. and he says this repeatedly, and he says it over and over again. he says things like repeatedly, i'm that no jewish person would be put that would be safe without the state of israel. now this is the president of a country that has a significant jewish population. and you know, he's basically saying that he cannot protect his own citizens if they are jewish. so that, that kind of language also has a strong ideological component. and i think that's something that's important to taking into consideration when you want to understand the complexity of a system that brings us these policies. but in terms of responsibility, the responsibilities on the officials that are imposing these policies, the responsibilities on the president, the vice president, the secretary of state, who's can secretary state blanket who's consistently white washing of israel's

crimes. this is someone, if you look at some of the figure, a secretary clinton and outspoken when it comes to us adversaries. but when israel is the one committing more crimes, he has not only as you have nothing to say about it, he's continuously placing blame exclusively on him off without placing any blame on israel, despite the fact that we have mass mass civilian casualties and they reject the idea that genocide is being committed, they reject every international institution whether it's the i c, c or the i c j or the you want itself when it is trying to impose consequences for israel. so responsibility starts at the top and responsibility is that of these officials and the media institutions that or, or to to say, because the mimic, wherever it is official said, rather than challenging them. yeah. and blinking supports zalinski and as factors of a band there are going up in,

in ukraine. so it's not even anything to do with jewish. and that's because very raising the memory of the jews killed in the article has been in ukraine. so what exactly is it and, and all these success very broadly being successful at um, cuz this time around, things have been different. not only because of the scale to sort of it in your country, they're, they're being mass o position to the pro israel policy of the us government. both show people support palestine in these, the hatred states. but they successfully stop to live as a student protests with the violence and intimidation. and they've even not covered the people who bind themselves to death outside. is there any conflicts which i know you've commented on? what do you think about the fact they hide and bush that goes self and relate to policy and that the d. c consulate, and now we've had met nelson in boston, getting himself, they, they was it done well,

but interesting. in terms of the self emulations, i mean the reason why aaron bushnell sto. busy pre uh, reached the audience, but it didn't got the coverage that i did was because she made a video that explicitly stated why he was doing the actually was about to take. right. and it was unavoidable, essentially, to end the fact that this is he was an active service of the military of the us military. so the combination is the only reason we're and versus rational got some attention, but you had a self immolation case before that. and now a new self emulation case in the u. s. and they've gotten no means, i mean, i have not been able to find a story about the recent self immolation of not nelson in boston. it's outside of the local boston papers. and even that headline and the story itself mentions nothing about these really consulate it. so it's, it's sort of those stories,

it's mind blowing to see how little coverage there is. and how long concern there is with the fact that there's been 3 americans who have sold the latest in protest to us policy in goes to the fact that the us is complicit in a genocide doctors. all right, thank you. thanks for having me. that's it for the show. i'll continue condolences to those breed by u. k. u s e um genocide, here in the middle east. on monday we dealt with the south sanctioning european union. when we see drivers, politicians make wallace. i had them the 2nd database or perhaps the world's biggest of a man made me think time of changing events. the alleged by the harris calling of the $11000000.00 loan stream to gas pipeline. until then, he would all try the social media if it's not sensitive, he'll country and i to i channel going on tv, hon dot com, georgia. you know, the episodes of going undergrads. you monday, the

the at the end of the 18th century, great britain began to conquer and colonize australia. from the very beginning of the british penetration to the continent, natives were subjected to severe violence and deliberate, extra patient. according to modern historians, in the 1st 140 years, there were at least 270 massacres of local b. both any resistance to the british was answered with double cruelty. hundreds of natives were killed for the murder of one settler. indigenous australians were not considered complete people. no wild beast of the forest was ever hunted down with such unsparing persevere.