the the hello and welcome to cross software. all things are considered on peter lavelle from escalation to escalation. israel's pagers attack on his blog and other lovely needs citizens may be a prelude to a greater conflict in the region with israel failing and gaza and its economy distress does nothing yahoo plan to force that american intervention the cross fucking escalation. i'm joined by my guess,

joshua landis in oklahoma city. he is director of the middle east studies program at the university of oklahoma. in berlin. we have coverage on my son. he is found rest of a re analysis and be route we cross through godaddy francis, she is a journalist and more correspondent, right across black roles and the fact that means you can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate it. joshua, thank you very much. for joining us, i know it's very early for you in reflecting them on with the over the last couple of days and it's a tech terrorism. what we can call it that in 11 on obviously at the, at the hands of the is re lease here. what is the message that's being sent because like everyone else on this program, in our viewers, i scour every, it's kind of opinion and the opinions are very diverse and trying to interpret what's going on here. what's your take? go ahead. as well as, as a major blow to his butler, there is no doubt about it and to um, the resistance access in general. um,

how much is known for being a um, well run in a regular oil machine that was able to force israel to leave levon on and 2000 after a long resistance. it's seen as being very good at what it does and also in 2006, it was able to send rockets into israel right through the entire engagement. but this makes his bow very weak and it's going to hurt his reputation as a resistance organization. you know, um, the technological difference between israel and his by law is, you know, it made me think of white settlers in the united states given blankets with smallpox on it to the native americans. and it was that the gap between these 2 fighting forces is tremendous. and this reminds us of the technological superiority, the f, 30 fives, and so forth, that israel has

a and is able to use throughout the air of world and the islamic world. and this, this may excuse the balance of power in the favor of israel tremendously. despite the numbers and the, the best efforts of its neighbors. well, let me go to you in berlin. i mean, is this a tactic, or is this a strategy, or is it somehow both go ahead? it depends. it depends what is really intended on doing. if this was a strategic and that means is really wanted to compromise, the internal communication system of hezbollah was, is very successful in doing so. it's very early to judge if they were successful in completing compromising the internal communication system, especially between the headquarters and the senior officers and the junior officers on the ground. the indication since the attack this pedro attack on live on,

on his, that his bullet has not been detroit. and to me, so i was under oak, it's under operations detrano types of state ongoing. now i agree with dr. joshua, that is right. has the technology go and especially already over his will. however, the toner, in spite of the grassroots of the community off his will lot is way higher than the is riley community. and in this case, the casualty rate as well. and all the time he is in a harsh way, which i still suspect that they will do it. if they have you tally it's however, and this is going to cause a major blow also for the extraneous society because these various societies also tired of this conflict and they cannot really continue emptying the settlements in northern palestine and moving goal the population to the south and east coast. well now the largest, the scope of the bomb being then is right. and would it be for us to evacuate more settlers from northern palestine to other places and this would increase the pressure on east valley itself. so we have to also see what is going to be the speed dropping us for a lot, which is important to see that what he's going to say,

and what are they intending on doing in against is right. got it. let me go to you and be rude. i mean, as horrific as, as it's a, as an act of terrorism. obviously civilians were about, um, it wasn't targeted whatsoever. a child has been killed a people in the medical profession. all of this it's, it's, it's an active tear but doesn't really change the equation here because this is a about just pointed out, i mean, in, in northern israel, they're still people that are displaced there in the south. i mean, nothing has really changed. i mean, if anything, it's more of a psychological blow at this point, go ahead. the 1st of all, let me thank you peter for know, think that it's a cetera. thought i was wondering if something similar happened to why it says there's, that's a doctor non this referred to as something similar if any technological civilian used device was turned into a bomb with bi sanders, doctor's children,

all sorts of civilians being hit when he comes to there is a technology because to be honest, the old, when he say it's the better is the talk. it's only too far into this genocide and fall assign that's we are not really sitting back heat on trying to be politically correct. it is a separatist attack on civilians and we have to clarify here just for the context feature and for everyone who will see this, not everyone who is affiliated with his blood, is it combatants? they were and peas, they were a doctors, there were scouts, there was a, there was a, the basset or even children. exactly. so not everyone is a come back. and this is why id bought the home that it says that this says anything superior to in terms of warfare, because the people who are fighting israel and the south were not to hurt the combatants were not to hurt or hurt. where people affiliated with has law and people stand thing next to them and the lebanese community. and we have to take

into consideration that the lebanese community and the lebanese voters did vote for hezbollah, members of pharma, and to the present them. and the lebanese community showed its, remained as active some is there, a fee threw out the days of these a tops and also before the end reported, as well as more than tens of thousands of combatants. if so, if that's, it really affected southern thousands. it did nothing to just do it has lot or there miss suns or the capacity. and one more thing, we have to say a given the point that to give work from better than just stated the tremendous ask the resilience and the, the tolerance in our communities. we have to know that this is the 77 years of this drug. and the indigenous people versus because the noises we never had similar technology, they always use their planes to, to bump our 10. they always used to have to pay the artist the insect and illogical

work. good. and in minutes of the work, the way we have to, we have to point out to the who's the, his, the basically defeated the u. s. navy, so i get your point here. so i'll show you, we had the israeli defense minister, go onto this as a quote here. the center of gravity is shifting to the north through diversion of forces and resources. this was a day before the pagers attack for these 2 together as well. it's quite clear that the nets and yahoo government has been trying to escalate this conflict. it to include 11 on and to and to include iran most, most importantly for nothing. yahoo! and he has america at a point of great weakness because of the election campaign. both candidates are competing with each other to be more pro israel with the next. and this means that netanyahu is able, may calculate that he's able to escalate and get the united states to help him

destroy, not only his beloved, but perhaps to attack iran. now, the united states does not want to get drawn into this kind of a conflict, particularly in the middle of a campaign which will, which will divert attention away from the issues that the democratic party is trying to focus on to issues of whether it's 21 sided in the war and israel and whether this in fact helps america's foreign policy for its it. whether america standing up for universal values and human rights instead of civilians. it is going to distort it's going to hurt america badly, but nothing, you know, feels and he has the advantage. of course we know that this is good for his own government, which is trying to push through a conquest of the west bank and to destroy palestinian who claims to an independent state. and that's, that's his ambition. it's his lights work that and it is

a legacy that he has at the age of 70. i don't know exactly how old is, but getting to the end of his political tenure wants to complete a, a life's work of trying to conquer the room. yeah, well he came, he might end up also end up being the last leader of a, a design history team as well. cuz i mean, i keep hearing this, the us doesn't want to go to war, but it's nothing you out to watch the us dakota war. it will go to war. i mean, oh yeah, it is it, this is very frustrating. hearing this, go ahead and berlin. i mean, if i was the national security advisor for the president of the united states, which doesn't exist at the current moment, i would advise a strongly against going into a war in west asia or in the middle east. the priority of the united states has to be, if from the american point of view to people, it's true to the east to try to counter the rise of china and also to try to draw

rift between russia and europe. however, we natania whole as a professor also to show along this mention has enormous influence nowadays over different policy approach off the u. s. and if not, then you, our triggers are regional toward these are the, against his will law, syria, the unstoppable lined against it. on the united states has no choice but to intervene and they will intervene. nobody has to have it. the illusion that is read, treat goes the word that the americans would say no. this time we're not going to come and in support of the americans, not the americans will supply the east virus, whatever they need in order to fight these fights. and therefore, i don't see nowadays a difference between different policy approach in washington and before that policy off television. because it's the point police of this has been hijacked by nathaniel. and as you mentioned, nathaniel also wants the legacy here. he wants to empties legacy with some sort of complete and creation of the palestinian statehood and the postilion demand for the

state. and therefore this also pushes the palestinians and also the arabs all around the army corps into not accepting ease resolution. do me see at all, and the reps and that what they say, and i'm speaking about the garage with about the people that we don't accept the legitimacy of the political entity off is right. and we want one state solution that the palestinian c r eps the jews. and christians can live alongside each other . and i don't see that this is say, you're absolutely right, but we came to us. we're going to go to break here. be oh, well, nothing you know may have his wishes and hopes, but there's a lot of people in the region that can veto that. i'm going to jump in here. we get out, go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion about the escalation in 11 on state with our to the the, it doesn't matter that it would be absolutely delusional,

recklessly delusional. to attack a china and russia with nuclear weapons wouldn't matter is if it starts, there's going to be no way of stopping the the see the, the somebody how can it be that um the ship to the middle east from a country whose top officials constantly complain about shortages of munitions and military equipments through a little bit of bus locally. and then they'll be able to assist them with below grade level nominal facility or some of those other staff we, i'm about to the easiest to to not. and they also want to know, we have more of an easy somebody mobile bubble showed, well, nice to show kind of the piece that have gone on. now, why are weapons from ukraine spreading over the world to, to,

and this country and to a major arms hub, will continue to bolster ukraine's and forces by rushing them occasionally use that they need to defend their country. the everyone knows very well that we don't sell but known as pineapples or any kind of children's toys. we sell women's. yes. we're also known in the world as homes dealers. we must not be ashamed of them to the welcome ect, across stock where all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing the escalation in live in the okay, when it go back to our guest into godaddy,

it's really quite remarkable. if we look at the entire history of the state of israel, it's foreign policy, and it's always to divide its neighbors. and it's been remarkably successful in doing that. but it things are changing right now. when i 1st spoke to you on this program, we, we, we were talking about this terrorist event against a largely civilian population. i'm sure some may, may be members of has the law were injured or even killed, but this was, this is not directed. and one person, and the reason why i bring that up is that when you know, when the whole world sees this kind of activity, if you don't know if your, your page is going to work, you have to be afraid of your phone. you don't know if you can turn on a radio. mean that unites, you know, she is sunni, secular as ac is, i mean, in your unit, this is something that brings everybody together, that just absolutely gut wrenching wrong. okay. and, and, and again, you know, when, when we look at talking about has blog. i appreciate your points about,

you know, okay, this was like, huge below, and it's in the, it will have to be rectified, but it doesn't change the balance of forces. if a complex happens, it's going to be a mass casualty event for everybody and, and it won't just be for 11 or 11 on those punishment, but these really don't go ahead and pay with well, 1st of all, in introducing we don't go so there. israel enabled rico, so there is a cold on the an occupation and ending and supplements in the east. and my grandmother is even older than that states. and when we speak about the tremendous victories in, in crossing the west, that this is also now recent. and the know make me to could be different. we are talking about the big city and then war crimes and genocide thing. and, and i may think a tolten, indigenous native population of old set of all religions. and they are the palestinian people. so what the israel got around its existence has always been

crimes and war crimes. the only difference and margin now is that it is being cell divides. it's only occurs to me, a sweet that's all you that yesterday on x, someone rose from the united states of america, we could get to a point where is where you, these would put the sinews in gas chambers and that advice up and live cover that. and we would find the usa department, finding excuses, and waiting for an investigation. this is that a blog and realistic and what's happening today. we are still talking about what, nothing else purposes are. and given the fact that this is a war crime against all humanity, everybody using technology, this is the same that has been happening for the past year. this october 7th. and i just want to say something that's a study after 11 months, 12 months, into attacking ongoing attacks. and because they using all kinds tons of munitions and impunity didn't they fill that moment. nathaniel who was not able to detect him

off, he was able to densely populated the places were bombs and kidding of people. what happened, but really does he get to actually, how much does it says $550.00? did he stop the con units and all these areas inside, but that's, that's from fighting rockets into is really settlements and into is really bases. no. so when we're talking about his bull, given all the facts, the mist dr. none of the staples in the beginning of this episode from 2006, and also you have to add the distance a group. this is an arm group in the middle east that has never been defeated in any kind of ground invasion. that is not a city record of it'd be people, it has will. so i don't think nothing. you all can do anything in the ground invasion. and i think this was already, this, a thought happened just to give a got a sense of achievement and accomplishment to the is really millions that don't want him in position anymore because we couldn't see any hostages. on the contrary,

he killed you, end up getting many of them and he doesn't need it took him off and he didn't really do anything of his so called this is as for the westbank, we are still seeing also resistance inside the old kind of covered existence inside the sign there's also the known was kind of operations. i think it would be pretty under uh, estimating the boxes. if we really say that's nathaniel, how can actually end up accomplishing anything. he's only the americans. yeah. because he is an american calling. he's pulling the americas using the 8 pack money to continue supporting him. well, probably the next is that's if you're absolutely right, he could, he can control blackmail, pay off all he wants when. so if we can go back to oklahoma city, joshua, is it going to work? i mean, you know, we can play this game of bluffing and, and, and chicken and all that. but i mean, if israel wants to have a conflict with has belie, it will pay a very heavy price. i mean, you know, they,

they, they have those missiles for a reason. you can have an american aircraft carrier there, and all that stuff succeeds and all that, but they're not going to be able to catch all of those missiles. this is what makes it so very dangerous as well. you're right peter. and the real question seems to me is whether there is any possibility for palestinians self determination in the long run. and is there a possibility that the, that the european and an american community as well? um, well, ever pressure israel to withdraw from the west bank. now we just heard the crown prince sell mine, my m s, you know a m b s. say that he would never recognize israel unless there's a palestinian state. and this has become the rhetoric of the gulf nations today, which many people see as, as a boost to the palestinians. on the other hand,

the trade figures belie this, the trade between the gulf states and israel has increased fairly dramatically over the last few years. and syria, iraq 11 on livia, our own shambles, their economies are in shambles. and this, this in israel is going right. it is crushing the palestinians, and that's what's happening and gaza. now, you know, this brings us back to this narrative of that has been common in the middle east, which is of the crusades that the crusaders lasted for 200 years. but eventually there was a lot of dean. the arabs got unified and they pushed them out. and that's, this is been in the rhetoric and the hope of many airbags in the middle east. don't you think? joshua is the price of the day? that's exactly where i wanted to go. let me go to both of us in berlin. this is what makes this interesting in a way, an extremely dangerous,

because there are 2 major met and narratives right here with the work for the israelis and the design is project. this is their opportunity to solve all problems all with the same time. of course the united states are supposed to do it for them . but just as josh was saying, as well, is it now you having a region that has been so sliced and diced by western imperialism, but now they are co with less co, a less things. we have 2 major meta approaches to this conflict. go ahead up to 3 decades ago, if you told me that the, the people of the region and especially the anti american copies can seriously challenge american dominance in the region. i would have told you, this is a joke. and andrew, speaking about the special political so after the invasion of the hot right now with this, the situation has changed. and the countries in the gulf all those. so we're talking about 2 state solution. i think they're trying to save these, right? and from it's the problems nowadays because many people also in the region that

they started to say that because before, before that we always discussed whether it was or it has the right to exist. now people say it does is ready to have the rights that has the legitimacy or deserve to exist as to what it has done to the palestinians and history. it shows us that no nation has committed a general side of these gratitude and ethnic cleansing in the past and the on the loan grant, sustained and continued. so is right. it has 2 choices, either dismantled its radical sinus ideology and this eventually will lead to one state. so it doesn't and everybody quit existing or, and that's on the whole government has to be humbled to immediately conflict. and i don't see that the 1st option is possible under the current circumstances. therefore, we are headed to an escalation and we have to measure something important delivery as government for administer. for example, it was please, they made the interval between the western powers and hezbollah trying to de escalate the situation. and before the minister said, now after this,

an attack and live on that they cannot urge because we are allowed to de escalate enough to retaliate and respond against the the service attack against the bad news . people. therefore even telling me patients being which were set because of the source on the pressure pressure that from the menus government or gun. now. so if here's one that goes into a retaliatory actions, they will enjoy a popular support from the menus and also from the official seen, the, the bindings, governments, something that these strategies have done because of these very, as i would say, terms attack against the bias. people, you know, it's interesting that i've heard over the last few months, israel needs to be humble, that needs to learn a less than a god. if i can go to you and be rude. i don't, under the design, is this zionism doesn't function that way. it's winter take all, there is no compromise in israel in this is it where it is right now is its own

worst enemy because it's playing for broke. but everybody else in the region is to go ahead and send somebody here. think swipe supremacy is still going, and we cannot really dispute the colonizers because we are invested in both ends and this. and so somebody doesn't care that they're not being can. they're not white and colonizers. let me say that's and is really a jewish that i then wrote the book from oxford university. i have it in my library . i view this every day. i like to read this edit site. the it's called is right in the swift from within me. and this person is a jewish person who went and the space is 2014 for a couple of years and used to he used to be called them to cindy economists. and he don't exactly why he thinks israel is gonna end itself by its sense because it has the money does not really work. just like you stay for the theater. you can always remember and say the things that you like to listen to, but you cannot really change the fact that these people, these under dogs,

these indigenous people are not really elicited. they have cyber attacks, they have a drone, they called it the who, who, it was the, it was able to go and 6th, with a just of a more than 10 minutes to the basis of these reviews and come back intact to lab and on and air it's in a psychological warfare, this is on presidents and this city of this target, the capacity and the ability of the opposite of the resistance in yemen to the, to a $1000000.00 tree with a $100.00 me ms side is there. this is a stop. yes, you can say that the economy is better in the united states. of course, it's the better, it's better in the united states. then it says in livia or you don't. but you can also say that you don't mix its own weapons and gives it to the counselors countries in the middle east. and you can also not look outside. i had been on go back to the adams because we're not only out of the speech and we are live in time . we can go back to the recent history just what's happened and the capital airport years few years ago when the americans accepted the sun without actually doing

anything or winning anything. well i oh i the i run out of time, but i haven't heard a solid being mentioned over a long time, but maybe it's a good thing now. all right i, that's all the time we have what i think my guess and be root berlin. and in oklahoma city, and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r t c. and next time remember, prospect. the release of russian states never as tight as i'm one of the most sense community invest. in most all sun set up, the standard assistance must be the one else holes. question about this,

even though we will bend in the european union, the kremlin media machine, the state on russia cruising and split the r t spoke neck, keeping our video agency roughly all the band on youtube, the payment services for the question, did you say stephen twisted the channels the, [000:00:00;00]

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