[000:00:00;00] the, [000:00:00;00] the time action or tendency, and welcome back to going underground rule got single around the world from the u. a, as a pro ukraine militants in contact with a native nation media became the latest would be donald trump, assassin, the genocide continues here. and then at least while the full expands and the globe back from the bible, harris proxy war in europe may not be fully known. the u. s. u. k u, i'm just sold on palestine is now engaging, given lebanon, iraq, iran saudi arabia, syria and the entire global south. as on the estimates of the killed reach, hundreds of thousands and gaza, mostly women and children. today is the so called

u. n. international day of peace, it's dedicated to the absence of war and violence, coinciding with something called a piece one day global ceasefire campaign. no one seems to have told lucky boeing, raphael northrop grumman b a systems and others who shareholders financially benefit from the native proxy college today is also the start if it runs heavily defense week walking. be catastrophe of nature. nation support for a rocky dictator. saddam hussein this yeah, commemorations a hell doctor and his really atrocity 11 in killed a wounded thousands including he runs ambassador as well as around renewing friendly relations with saudi arabia and the u. a. joining me now from l. a is a historian of the middle east, and those are the stage of resistance, politics, culture and identity, and more than iran to try solve rad a doctor on. thank you so much for coming on. so as he said, international peace dave is being recorded before the events of the past 24 hours

as regards his rails next moves here in, in the middle east. why is your pin tweet? i notice on your x time line blaming nato country journalist as much as anyone else for the genocide in guys. well, the treat actually goes back to which is sort of indicative of uh, the longer view of this narrative and in western media in western political discourse. that's because from 2021 and it's regarding it of evictions posting new families being expelled from their homes in east jerusalem. and really when you look at that idea, you realize that in the western narrative, not only has a know this sort of narrative of whitewash and israel's kinds existed for a long time predating the events of this last year and the genocide and gaza. but the idea that east jerusalem gaza the westbank, they're all interconnected. and yet the way that the narrative is within the west

has to separate them into the apartment allies, them as if they are not all part of posting in territory. and posting integration in general. can you change the words of these headlines in the so called the mainstream, either in, in nato nations. um, you might have to give us some examples and, and daily the, going out on social media not really affecting the media. you're attacking implicitly for, i suppose, hiding and disguising the mass soldier of, of untold numbers of women and children, men, women, and children. yeah, i mean, you were looking at a language of dehumanization that and what the white washing of prime, right? so there's 2 sort of components to it. it's the way that the narrative is told in order to avoid culpability for israel responsibility for israel's actions. right, so you'll see patterns where mainstream western outlets will avoid actually meaning

israel within their headlines, right? they will not attribute attacks to is really just an air strike or something and causes flattened where people are simply killed, but the source of who is killing them or what killed them or whose air strike it was that is often not attributed to is real. even though that is the state that is taking the action or the after that is acting in that situation. and then there's the fact that the word choices themselves, right? when often when palestinians are killed, of the workshop is not used, they simply die. they are not victims in the same way. they are collateral damage, palestinians even not word itself. palestinian sometimes not use. so you'll see west bank presidents or guardians. we use the arabs in some cases, a broad term referring to arrows within the larger world rather than against palestinians of palestine, occupation, genocide. these are all words that are avoided as much as possible within, within western media. and something that i think is important to note,

always in these situations is there is a difference between the reporters and the institutions. right? so i think they're often see reporters and they're very internal stories of internal struggle within some of these institutions. and even people who, and we've seen this within the political system in the united states as well. people who are resigning from the state department because they do not agree with us policy. but it's the institutions that are protecting is real and it's actions and they're doing so by to humanizing palestinians and the process. because once you're just shoot me an ice, this entire populations, this is how you justify attacks that are happening, that are truly a majority of which are killing civilians. i mean even gaza alone. you have, i think the, the latest official decimal which are all under estimates assess something close to 17000 children have been chosen the last 11 months. and the only way to attempt to whitewash a crime of that magnitude is to do schuman, i,

the population in which those crimes are being carried out against. yeah, as ralph nader and the man is al, give me save all people than anyone else for fighting. the auto industry said it may be close to 300000 little adults. so we really don't know that the figures during this i'm being allowed in by the israeli government. but then, i mean, i've worked in these news rooms at the highest level. bbc and cnn, and palestine is um, allowed to be use as it to him. so are you saying that people, if you're not blaming the report is, i mean i took the names down of a few, these people virginia mos get cnn. it'd be the top level editors, tim, david, bbc, joseph, con, and your time savvy. but we have the washington post politico john harris available to sac fox news, but all can afford to bury and with these are the names of these people, sky news, jonathan, that'd be a very complicit in genocide. rebecca bloom and shine have nbc news. alicia, call them these are the highest level. editorial people the bbc has more to worry about, gimme because their highest page and this is just being done for child abuse. but to him, what about all these people?

the names i mentioned they do, they need to be in your book southcourt for these people i think is certainly media complicity. and when i say, well, the reason i, i point out the fact that there are reporters who are trying to do good work is because i don't think we can paint everybody with one brush, right. i think there are certainly reporters within these institutions that are, that do take issue with what's going on and do try to do good reporting. but there are an eyesore the bbc, i'm sorry to interrupt. i'm having a long time 30 years of experience. i didn't see many, i know all these different institutions. what about american media in iceland or id? that's why why did they make a big deal of this american? that was shot dead. so let me base my answer on the fact that i also watch the state department briefings and white house briefings every day. right? so i see, and there's a large portion of people in the room for not really pushing back. but there are reporters who are pushing back, they're trying to get the answers. and so that's why i say, i just don't think that the,

that i think that the attack is more appropriate on the, on people who are visions of power versus the reporters or trying to report what they are right. that. ready anybody who writes an article knows that it's not the journalist that picks the headline, right? it's the editor that makes the headlines. so in terms of complicity, i would say the complicity is higher up. typically, of course, there are probably journalists who don't who, who agree or use read just language in certain situations intentionally so, but my point is more to say that there are certain lever, especially within independent world, was even within the mainstream media. i think there are individual reporters that are trying to do good work in terms of complicity of the media is broad. simplicity is extremely important and they certainly are complicit . and as a historical example of this, right, we're looking at something that's happening right now. but if you look back to the invasion of iraq in 2003, the job of the media, the in, in a, in what we championed is

a free press right in the western world. the idea that we have a free press is champion, is the cornerstone of democracy. and yet, what does it mean to have a free press? the free press means you don't repeat what the official state narrative is. you don't just listen to whatever. if the president said, so that means it's true, you challenge that narrative because the job of the journalist is to find truth. and in the case of 2003 invasion of iraq, that's absolutely not what the media did. the media paired, whatever the, by the bush administration's, that at the time, which we now know as a fact we're fabricated lies. but they didn't challenge it at the time. and that's the kind of reporting that we need to be seeing something that challenges the idea that you know, if israel says they're targeting militants, this is just repeated as fact. whereas in reverse, if we're talking about the bias within, within the media, when palestinians are killed, you very, very often see a coffee yet, that's out it. right. it says hospital says uh, cause a health ministry says and sometimes especially with the bbc, how must run,

garza health ministry says because they want to cast doubt on those numbers. and yet when israel says they were targeting militants, or tomas was in that score moss, there was a total under that university that is treated as fact. and so that is the problem with the way that the narrative is being presented. were one side that has a record of lying right? there are reports of even from the new york times, and the washington post and cnn to come out and say, you know what? evidence shows that the is really narrative was not accurate. even when that happens in the headlines, they are often still treated as fact. and that is, i think the why you see the complicity of, of the media. their job is to challenged the state not copy yet, not paired. and of course, other outlets, a band and on social media as well, let alone television networks in the united as regards in the united states and europe. but then again to the blame, if it's not the individual journalist you're saying there are wonderful exceptions,

which i suppose maybe the case. so there's very difficult to as a, uh, when comparing the footage on your phone, scrolling up with what the processing is, it means you're advertise at the top advertises over there in the us, spoke to him, gamble have the g s. k big pharma. basically, disney and other find the company? no, the no, it is google pepsi, amazon. they're paying the money for all these broad costs that are clearly tried to minimize in the amount of american public imagination. the scale of the atrocity we're witnessing that most people in the global south considered to be you know, holocaust. i mean that's why, but that's how you, kamala harrison is holocaust virus and bite and genocide. you, i mean, the, you know, when you look at it the way that the entire world sees this, but the vast, vast majority of the world sees this issue. you can see it within, you know, un boats,

boats by the united nations. right. if you look at the way that the united nations has voted on countless resolutions having to do with condemning israel or enforcing international law for the sake of palestinians. you see that where the minority lies and you see where the vast majority of the world lies. and so there's a reason why that kind of the, the media division would happen that way as well. um, in terms of the corporate media that you're talking about, i mean, that's the question of that questions the, the entire notion of the free press as well, is it a free press if it's actually, if it's concerned, is profitability. if the idea is the profit, the now those corporations wields some kind of power over the types of narratives that are coming out of these media platforms. and at the same time that corporate power is exerted within directly within our political system as well. i mean, you can get into the power of the very lobbies that you just referred to as several of the companies that you were talking about. whether you're talking about pharmaceutical companies, or whether you're talking about for in lobbies like

a pack in israel's lobby, within the us. the way that money operates within the political system also lends itself to corruption within that system. for us, all right, i'll stop you there. more from the history in the middle east after this, by the the, what is part of it that the employee would post that isn't the deepest view of us and that in the word part

is it something deeper, more complex might be present to that stop without felicia is that spelled out of the the welcome back to going underground. i'm still here with the story in the middle east and all through the stage of resistance politics, culture and identity and iran don't trust. all right, dr. right, you were talking about the freedom of the press, i think see what hush was on this row. and i think he intimated that, you know, that basically isn't one. do you think any of these uh, john listing these news rooms and nato countries understand that piece is breaking out in this region aside from palestine. the saudi arabia is made friends again with a run with syria. that is as, as the way where i'm speaking to you, that in the rest of this region,

there are huge ties being forged outside of the nature of frameworks and washington proxy frameworks ladies on us adversaries or western adversaries, i should say more broadly. um are involved in the normalization process, not treated the same way. right. if you, if you just oppose the way, say, a chinese brokered, well chinese broker. but then also there was a lot of regional actors like oman, for instance, and got to who very often are in the background. doing a lot of that diplomatic work when it's appropriate between 2 states, like saw uribe any wrong, that is not treated in the same way as se, the abraham courts. and the idea that there is normalization between arab states and, and israel. and that's because it doesn't fit the, again, it doesn't fit the political narrative, it doesn't flip fit the political discourse. and so that's where you really see this overlap between the media or the mainstream media i should say. and what is the political discourse of the state? now, why is this important? because that's what supposed to, i mean, that's what,

according to western officials themselves. this is what differentiates, you know, the story to reinstate has paper on media versus a free western democracy that has a free press. the idea is that it's not supposed to simply mimic whatever the state of saying, but in most cases you see that. so you see normalization attempts of normalization between saudi arabian, a wrong to significant sort of a orange foes as they're depicted within uh, within the west and you see normalization with other countries with the wrong. that's one of the things that the, the ronnie, the is honorable like is focused on in recent years. is diplomacy within its own neighborhood, right? diplomacy within the region, a look east versus a west. and that is never going to be painted as a positive development because as long as it's western adversaries who are having peaceful relations or trying to normalize relations, that's not on the political agenda within those western countries. so it's not treated the same way. they're not, they're not even treated as alliances when there are

a lot. it is rather cold. foxy's, you never hear the words alliance being used. there are no allies, apparently in the region. there's just proxies within the region. whereas when you're talking about the western world, you'll lions as an allies. so all of that difference in language is really just, it's not the actions of the states that matter. it's who is taking those actions. so i will washington, have punish savvy arabia then for not playing boys clear from blinking and sullivan that they have. i hope so, even though time and time again, saudi arabia said no, we want. we want to increase oil supply when they wanted them to. we was normalize with israel and yeah, give you a june and nato me see a you'd think. yeah, it's really on the cards this great to bite in the house administration. the idea of the uniting saudi arabian with is really we people are horrified in jesus the countries, but they can even think that would happen. well, you know, it's,

it's funny to even guess how are you ready in the budget ministration? because if you remember during the 2020 elections and joe biden sort of famously called, uh sorry, ravia to apply a state. right. and he said he would treat it as a prior state. and of course, t, once he became president of, there was the, the fis pump with n b s. that was criticized largely in the west because that was one of the platforms that joe biden ran on. he was going to be tough on saudi arabia. so when you asked about punishment, i don't see where i don't see how this administration is in any way exacted, you know, what punishment on, sorry, review whatsoever. when it came to the case of the killing of donald for surely the same thing, us divided administration said that, well now we have details that perhaps i was the i opened the 1st place and showed his position was highly suspicious and altogether and otherwise talked about the, but i, you know,

i want to get onto this harris since november elections. very big isn't it? will flits a to remind everyone used to work at a back is the cnn journalist and donna bash. who was the person who was majesty a link to the chief of stuff is the highest shows her down the bus to get the 1st interview from paying that the election is being extreme. interference is not the russians. it is clearly israel that as a stranglehold over the elections there in the united states as well. that's something that's uh, rarely talked about the influence of, uh, not, not only within the lobbies. right. so you have the sort of open source information of, i mean a pack boast about this idea, right? always look a packing doors, you know, candidates, one their elections here, the amount of money that a packet spending on defeating any candidate who has, who is basically just criticizing the state of israel in any way of all of that is

in the open. what's talked about less or the sort of covert influence campaigns. you'll see a few headlines and a few stories within western media, but it's not covered in the same wall to wall coverage. you get when, for instance, the target is russia. when the target, when the discussion is about israel info is really influenced campaigns, you really don't get very much coverage on it. and yet there's very clear indications that those influence campaigns are happening not only out in the open, but also covertly. i mean you can look back in at the. busy it stories of israel spying on the us back in 2015 again. these things go if covered, barely covered and they're not presented with the same alarm. and i think that's one of the key distinctions. there is no alarmist added to towards the fact that this is happening. it's almost common place. it's okay. it is real spies on, on us officials. it's okay. is realize covertly trying to influence us politics. in some ways the,

the lines are blurred between is really influenced as being for an influence. if you think about the fact that you have us officials, right, representative of the us government going to the capital in idea of uniforms, right. and is really military uniforms. i mean, there is a very, the relationship between the us and israel and the influence that israel has on us politics is quite strong, but it's not something that you is readily available within the western media narrative. or yeah, i mean, you can see why when people make these points that are the whole true. the immediate reaction is anti semitism says on people who make these accusations they've destroyed one of the most popular labor leaders in england, the jeremy coleman, making accusations like this and talking like this because it still seems even from you side. be mysterious, because you're saying these are opponents on the ground of trying to do their best

. they're trying to do their best. there is a pack, which is the best just b as rarely state doing it. who are the individuals in the bible harris administration and on the trump campaign r f k. junior and tools that gathered recently joined in they're both opposed to any ceasefire and gaza. who is responsible for, for me, is, is the israeli state that is running american democracy in general, or the, these individuals i mean the any don't is to the trump campaign. one donor in particular has been named the widow of a casino owner. so even when other kid, the us policy within is really pub, sorry us policy piece of israel in terms of responsibility starts at the top. i mean, the president of the united states is the one who is setting up these policies of the vice president. now come, all harris is supporting those policies and even though it's paid by a pack, right, that most bankrolled by 8 pack by $900.00 and say, well,

they stay certainly receive uh, funding from a pack. yes. as well as other lobbying groups. i think that's important to point out to because there are a lot of, uh, within the american political system, there are significant lobbying groups, which is the other reasons why we get policies not only outside of, for an outside of foreign policy within domestic us policy. there are policies that go against with the bipartisan majority of americans. what, why does that happen? why is there a disconnect between what our politicians actually enforce as policy versus when it's not with the bi partisan majority? will of the people, if it's because you have powerful loved ones and it's not just these really, why do you also have, for instance, a pharmaceutical office, right? you have arms, manufacturers, you have reasons why, why we have english forever wars and, and fleeting military budget that goes higher and higher, despite the fact that the bite administration withdrew from afghanistan and, and boasted about this idea that over ending america,

as long as the war i'm following that following the end of america, as long as war, they increased the military budget again. so what, what explains this kind of phenomenon is, is multiple lobbies that are working within the insurance. now that the arab league not to the arab league, just give a few brief cases to divide the ministration. and suddenly they've care about the dying mother to school, to children of guys that know because i think it's more complex, right? i think you can just break it down as, as that is the only factor. then you're simplifying something where there's also, i mean, there are strong cultural and ideological re within this as well, right? because of the way that this, this is not new, this narrative is not new within this country. so you see it not only within the media but also within the popular culture discourse and also within the political discourse. and this has been the case for many decades. so there's also an ideological component that i think is often left out of it when you have joe biden was talking about very proudly the idea that he is designed this. and he says this

repeatedly, and he says it over and over again. he says things like repeatedly, i'm that no jewish person would be put that would be safe without the state of israel. now this is the president of a country that has a significant jewish population and you have, he is basically saying that he cannot protect his own citizens if they are jewish. so that, that kind of language also has a strong ideological component. and i think that's something that's important to taking into consideration when you want to understand the complexity of a system that brings us these policies. but in terms of responsibility, the responsibilities on the officials that are imposing these policies, the responsibilities on the president, the vice president, the secretary of state who's can and secretary state blinking, who is consistently white washing of israel's crimes. this is someone, if you look at some of the figure, a secretary clinton and outspoken when it comes to us adversaries. but one is real, as the ones are meeting more crimes. he has not only as you have nothing to say about it,

he's continuously placing blame exclusively on him off without placing any blame on israel, despite the fact that we have mass mass civilian casualties. and they reject the idea that genocide is being committed. they reject every international institution whether it's the i c, c or the i c j or the you want itself when it is trying to impose consequences for israel. so responsibility starts at the top and responsibility is that of these officials and the media institutions that or to, to because the mimic, wherever it is official said rather than challenging them. yeah. and blinking supports zalinski and as factors of a band there are going up in, in ukraine. so it's not even anything to do with jewish. and that's cause very raising the memory of the jews killed in the article has been in ukraine. so what exactly is it and, and all of these success very broadly being successful at um, because this time around things are heavy and different. not only because of the

scale of the sort of an annual country they're, they're being mass o position to the pro israel policy of the us government. both show people support palestine in these hated states, but they successfully stop to live as a student protests with the violence and intimidation and maybe even not covered the people who burned themselves to death outside. is there any conflict which i know you've commented on? what do you think about the fact they hide and bush that goes self? him related of a policy, and that the d. c consulate, and now we've had met nelson in boston, getting himself they were able to get it done well. but interesting. in terms of the self emulations. um, i mean, the reason why aaron bushnell story reached the audience, but it didn't got the coverage that i did was because she made a video that explicitly stated why he was doing the actually was about to

take. right. and it was unavoidable, essentially, to end the fact that this is he was an active service of the military of us military. so the combination is the only reason we're pursuing rational got some attention, but you had a self immolation case before that. and now a new self immolation case in the u. s. and they've gotten no means, i mean, i have not been able to find a story about the recent southern malaysian of mount nelson in boston. it's outside of the local boston paper. and even that headline and the story itself mentions nothing about these really consulate it. so it's, it's sort of those stories, it's mind blowing to see how little coverage there is. and how little concern there is with the fact that there been 3 americans who have so elated in protest to us policy in goes to the fact that the us is complicit in a genocide congress. all right,

thank you. thanks for having me. that's it for the show. i'll continue condolences to those breed by u. k. u s e um genocide, here in the middle east. on monday we go to the south sanctioning european union. when we speak to irish politician make wallace. i had them the 2nd database or perhaps the world's biggest of a man made me say in time of changing events. the alleged by the harris calling of the $11000000000.00 flow and stream to gas pipeline. until then he would talk to i roll a social media if it's not sensitive, he'll country and i to a channel going on tv on rumbled or come to us, you know, the episodes are going undergrads. you monday, the, the

man or the we strongly condemned this unprecedented attack on friends 11 and the citizens, which causes use a gross violation to be sober and date and is a serious challenge to international law. and the united nations and security council rusher takes a style for the people of the level of the page has exploded on mass, leaving dozens of dead and wounding thousands more of following the attacks. but let the trail con edge across the nation. israel hasn't babe root in the process, does it run stuff itself? oration again, testable. his lies. i think we're straight. give them what capabilities it has.