a high price during the war, mozambique had lost tens of thousands of its sons and daughters, the the hello and welcome to cross stock where all things are considered on peter lavelle. former ukrainian president zalinski is in the us peddling what he calls a victory plan. unfortunately, this plan doesn't speak to peace and security. in fact, zalinski and his nato patrons have only one goal to keep the complet going. n well funded. this approach is a defeat for ukraine, the prospecting ukraine. i'm joined by my guess, steven guy, it's in belgrade. is

a research associate at build rates, institute of european studies in bows. what we have on the right that we can call he is a former ukrainian diplomat. and in sweden we crossed to reg simmons. he is an independent research or, or a gentleman, cross type rules in effect. that means he can jump any time you want. and i always appreciated. stephen, let me go to you 1st and bell grade. this victory plan has been bandied about, i'm not sure what, how much different it is from the zalinski piece plan. we can go there if you want, but what is he trying to achieve because other, you know, at this point, it just seems like a public relations page in the dying days of the biting administration. your thoughts, stephen. it'd bring that to you just as soon as the last these baseline. uh which lists are rated on uh, june 15th, uh 60 in the near bottom in switzerland. uh when uh, basically what we had, it was a, uh, were conference. busy the dollars uh waived. sure. all right,

good. you everything to be spike getting more more money and weapons essentially what the trunk that yesterday. i mean uh a lot of his, um, pre i look for all speeches. is that the last is the greatest salesman. whenever he comes to the stage, she goes backwards with $60000000000.00. and this call press is even thing more malicious because he talks about the victory plan at the moment when you cranium, these fans is crumbling in the us. and what this means is escalation of war, she demands for me to, to basically directly get involved. what is more important here is the, the last few things, but what the nato, a leads and the ongoing administration thing. because what they want is, even in the amount of trunk winning the election, they want him to become a hostage of war. and at the same time, this goes along with the dramatic escalation of war individually. israel officer

destroying, basically gaza and killing tens of thousands of people now is doing, began to say i'm actually in, in lebanon. and what they want is to drag the united states at the same time, we see a high truman shape, uh, aircraft carrier, moving slowly to the middle east. this is very dangerous. i think this is the most dangerous moment so far is between now and a between the american elections. yeah. assuming that it could be what was popularly known as the october surprise, but was, there's so many issues out there that could be the october surprise. unfortunately, andre, let me go to you and basil one of them. you know, i can understand ukraine has security interest. so, you know, i, i've never begrudged that. okay. but i can't see how this regime, but it's a legitimate at this point here. so lensky is the former president, after all under its own constitution, is a lift gate that's and talked about security. he doesn't talk about peas,

but he talks, he wants the, the conflict to continue. but the longer it continues, the more he moves is man. and the smaller ukraine becomes like, explain the logic behind this for me. there is no logic, but there is logic at the same time. you want to see kinda that is that, that is a so called piece time victory prime. what do you call whatever, but it's a plan for war and destruction of in front of that is the last you can have solve this for in 2019 could have stopped when he became the president with the mr. corps haven't had getting an autonomy for the don't boss area. i'm having a great night. he didn't do that. to continue the search this one longer your process until leading to full scale war between the waste isn't on the frame territory. writing states and russia usually play a man to die more than $970000.00 troops are deadly from the point inside the grout . today,

that of the lights these so called peace plan. yeah. it's the same power lose as much as possible. maybe doesn't care what the premium meant. we doesn't care about what's happening right. excuse us. plain the church is going to have to the orthodox city brain. millions of orthodoxy. great. where we space is the 1st place of work reduction in the side of the world. so this is what we see today, a full destruction applied to the store, but we pray to feed it to black rock, to the beach, safety to keep himself in power. and that is it. there's no peace i call it could have done is unstoppable in 2022 and it was full of what shed. he didn't do it because he got orders directly from washington. wanted to keep this one going because to make more money to make more money for the most industrial comforts of washington and of the state. that is it, this is probably pretty important standpoint. i talked to a lot of different, i have to forward it to myself or around the world today. more than 60 percent of the printer provided for them come back. that is a fact. and they all are supporting what i'm seeing because they were the rank seat

is always i've you said it was, you have a president, would you be part of them in the frame? and this do so. so for positive deflection, were you print, you're going to use the story, our country, you have to, we. yeah, well, i want to know later eventually he'll probably end up been one of his villas in miami or, or one another, a palatial destination. that's what he thinks, what we have, what's the well, i mean if he gets out of the country, because a lot of people want to see him in a ditch as well. that's what happens when you choose a patron, like nato. great, and one of the we had over the last few days, we had the british prime minister at the behest of tony blink and apparently go to washington and that was gonna be the big fan fair that you know, the ukrainians couldn't use western weapons issued deep into russia, it didn't happen. there wasn't a press conference, there really wasn't much of a read out. and of course, well, the political sphere is a buzz. what's happened here? the pentagon finally say, no, you people are really, really nuts,

particularly since we're on the hook to go to a war in the middle east again. i don't know. maybe we'll find out the truth here, but we did, we, we were staring into the abyss because for a change, they listen to what president vladimir putin said. you do that, then we're in a state of war with nato. go ahead, greg and sweden. oh, absolutely. as you saw healing the aid head for peace of the whole round. where was this? uh this uh, kind of the stuff weird but going to uh well, hey, and which, uh, they needed to actually activate the targets russia and they expect the consequences of the, the cause i personally say it's offline and they were forced to listen. i think it guys and i did last in guns behind closed doors were you know, you had daughters are still side on list. john hard with this. plus it's gotta be

fantastic. it was by the dump, the strange love moments and how does the bottom line up, but when you have those other ones, uh, the big block that say well no, let's do some extra comments. amc it a m. so this provider will be closed, will be a psych, everything, and the guy to the go with you and you that was the bomb and what people are that great that, that brings up the issue here. and this isn't, let me go back to stephen in belgrade. i mean, the mantra, coming out of a nato capitals is that, um, uh, the russians wilson with the big they claim red lines, but they never, uh, hold to them. well, number one, i would claim when we talk about red lines, most of those fictional red lines come from the west. it's not what russian official them actually say themselves. but in this case here,

they're saying that the, the russians won't escalate. will apparent. i always remind people that russia threatened to invade ukraine in 2022. and you know what stephen? they did. okay, so i don't understand why people say they're always bluffing. russians, no bluff. they act. steven, and i think that this so logical nato is nothing else about a fertile logic because what they are doing is they're literally pushing the world towards a cool leads annihilation. and then they're going to have with the smile of their face with a smirk, which is kind of amazing. uh, i think that's the site is definitely not bluffing, but russia still. ringback cannot comprehend the amount of evil that these people are capable of doing. uh, who would have thought that uh, you bring for that quote, with all the american equipment. would it be the cost?

uh, and the we would see again the german times burning on that. those same feels where they burns uh, some 70 plus years ago. so uh these people are ready for to do everything and anything in order to stay in power as we see what's happening in the middle east. the nose, if he doesn't escalate, he will probably go to jail. he will have to face charges in his route because people are sick of war. most of people in every society are normal. they want their kids to go to school. they want to have surgery in their lives and they certainly don't want to die and thermal nuclear war. and the problem is that we have a small click on the world. i wouldn't say even leaders of people in power in different sectors of power, who are interested in dolton list collision. i don't know. what do they think they, they watch uh, you know, the james bond movies and they have a little shape under the c or, and,

or software. so they think they will fly to space or, or, or saved themselves biologically, somehow, or whatever they, they think it is a delusion because, uh, what they are essentially doing that they are trying to, to remove a huge war. uh, and i think the, this is a critical time, as i said earlier between today and, and the american election so that it won't be able to. andre, what is you? ukraine get by doubling down because you is of the, as a lensky, quote unquote, a peace plan. basically asked russia to a surrender. it's, it's the same thing here. why does this, i mean, is this a fiction for a western, a lease and finance years? i mean, certainly people in ukraine can't believe it. go ahead of people who probably don't believe there's a lot of people, the printer needs to be. silverman paid the relax regime, but it's under the lens. they want this one. and when i get back to the economy,

there's nothing for them under, under this machine. so they're looking forward to trying to solve. but so i'm still running a lot of our use the push, but this technician idea that he can win, but it is only the world using the home, the so called awards from washington. but he's not to use just in the hands of the corporate tiers around the globe move on to the washington. that is that he likes it. he loves yeah. i mean, as i said it, in the interview, one say was the greatest role of his life. be kind of let the mask slip because he doesn't joy being this, but i don't know if he's going to be able to get out of this alive here. gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to run it with short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on ukraine state with parking the

cause, i don't want you to be not. so someone that just didn't want to say, i'm on this for the best interest you. i, if i do for se, mitchell, i get it under the guise of evacuation about 50000 people were transported the the main purpose of this concentration camp in bella rose was too insane. prisoners was typhus and use them as a human shield against the one thing. so be it on a given mind the size of 0, but ceiling to phone. the problem is that is one of us particularly was in love

with like you can for the ship that your ship a put a supervisor step. i don't want to bring your name the i'm so sorry i missed because on your certificate seems to put your salary and that is a to see if the nazis use people is biological weapons leaving them to perish without food, water or shelter, feed your small answer from you for a dating, so could i think it was, it was useful to can you put the intrinsic nation weight in there? so let's just put each, each one. we have a ship for them to move the cam gloucester 10 days, or what else made it drastically defense for mazda cam, so that the rice watch on t the the, what the rest of the, i mean, the thought on. i mean, i was trying to meet you, which i your ship was traveling since the mid august, a hair dresser, a bus driver, a sales person, anyone could become

a victim. that's how private negotiators fast appeared. looking for the best assist you don't want them to go to see we started this summer. ok. no, no, no. yes. that's the reason why you'll be up by the name on that. on those over those are learning is you want the feasible mission on from the yes to the studies boys took over the serious me this is a little that this request was in the the welcome back across that were all things are considered. i'm peter was about to mind you were discussing. you create

the plan is go to greg. i mean, it's really interesting of, boris. uh, yeah, uh, johnson came out with an article on the spectator titled the, it's time to let ukraine join nato. and then in the, in the, i think the 1st paragraph or so we, uh, we need to, uh, to get you crate into nato. now what i mean now, okay, i mean, this is the biggest food on the international stage, and i'll tell you what's a very competitive stage these days. what is motivating him. we even have the head of the outgoing head self and bring them a nato even admit that this complex came about because of nato expansion. he admitted it's all public part of the public record. and the russians have made it clear that this is a they said in this them before and if them bowl and they keep saying today that is a prerequisite to wrap this thing up here. but boards,

johnson continues to do it. i mean, is he an ideological not case or is he just making a lot of money off of this? go ahead. was not all the what it's a case of the employees. the guy is definitely showing side cognitively. challenged inside them was career options, place employment, is that a run of a slow end of this particular retrospect? what are you trying to do is trust drives itself to the decision by gives in washington dc to carry enough body above for a career of forest johnson to continue things about on the globe and stage. i mean, but this is purely a be awesome, but he's prepared to prostitute themselves to one because in order to do that, you know, stephen, the problem that we face right now is that i believe and move, you know that the, the, the real history of this will be written one day, is that

a blinking newland sullivan? they, they thought the saying the threats of a conflict, they thought the sanctions would work. they felt the international isolation would work. they never really thought that a conflict would happen and they were caught flat footed. and that's the reason why they've never had a plan. b stephen. i hope so, but that's comes with the presumption today, a rational, real point explain additions who just won the victory upset not to destroy their own countries in the process. so why see more where you have a dispatch in boynton? johnson is the last case, similar as those are that i would, i would call them even was there like the joke or sometimes i think that the volume was the was always preparing us for the events to come. remember all the catastrophic movies with the washington in your being destroyed and all of them being failed before 911. so now when i look back in 2019, and we joke,

or i think both johnson, i think of as the last key, i think of people who did not get enough credit because they were bullied on, regardless of what kind of frustration they had. and now they are disrupting the planet with a smile on their face. and the, this is, this is what i'm really afraid of. it's not on rationality. i thought even dr. strange along kind of logic. it is the logic. oh, a few even because that is what i see. i always, i'm trying to find some kind of a, a, a rational thinking, why are they saying so, but this is more than a blog because as you just mentioned previously, they know for a fact that russia is not the last thing at the end of the day, so why are they provoking, why are they provoking ross at the response to iraq, incidental explode inside of russia?

it is, it is lots, johnson is advocating for it is one of the last key is advocating for benefit. but as of the last, you know, that important, what is important is this, the, the dark elite behind stand behind a chance of that behind these people who are, uh, i don't know what they're trying to do, but this is going beyond the real point thing. this is going beyond geo politics. yeah. and be fit and because it's at the end of the day it's it. everyone security is threatened everyone by doing this here. you know, on 31 of the things that i thought about during this, and i've been watching this situation since 2014, that's the beginning of this conflict here. they, most western audiences are never exposed to. but i, you know, i've always been, you know, bewildered how you would get this elite and in care of, supported by the wes willingly. you know, people say ukraine is a victim and i always say, well, no, it's a volunteer. they volunteered for this mission. is this an inexplicable to me and

considering the results today to me to do it? it's so bewildering, but to add to it all right? you have, you're going along with it to look at all of the elections across the board. i mean, schultz was, you know, he's happy that his party got half a point higher than a then is the alternative for germany. i mean, think about that 2 or 3 years ago, would you think that would be an election outcome in germany all through europe? i mean, what is going on here very much like what stephen was saying here. i just don't understand why people signed up to this because it's always to their detriment. what is ukraine gotten out of this? what is europe gotten out of this? we know a lot of arms and makers made a lot of money from this. ok, fine. but everybody else i'm today. they leaks with the when do these got out of the so we got out of this is their bank accounts still more. they have a possible would it be good to where i'd say, to turn to look up to their owners and masters in washington. that's why i didn't

get paid for you get a good power. she got for all those the address or source on the line. she gets a good partnership. she comes over and sits on the board directors or teach somebody in or aboard the records of a thing to chickens, big people and i'm on the same thing with the so called you previously. i was there, i found out of the 6 of 16 i left the gum position, say no, i will not be part of a student and just did my function until bloodshed. and i saw how or shameful i was in his office. i was seeing all these process there's always going to purchase, making to sell to that americans. and that's where is the door, the assembly and to start off. that's what it was. they were selling it all directly. ukraine was the week to be praying were songs that comes off directly to the west and they will see for the door. so whatever channel the choice that is, the biggest problem is they're thinking you're, they don't think about their people. they think about themselves. that is the biggest situation here and the same thing with the so called a lead to washington. they have the email, and then they had

a practically this unified to the store to rush it from a brand new slab. what do you do to reagan? the 1985 right to the side of russian quota parks taken apart. they use all the resources of a rush. that's what they were planning was and they started going to happen in the 1st 3 months of this proxy war. they used to play a man, but it didn't happen. well, why should stay the place? government rushes farther than ever. the whole world is back to russia, around america, asia, all behind bridges broke, and this was the result the didn't expect. and that's going to be the karma, the loss, but the people are stuck from the situation. people in europe are suffering. the prices are cited. rock 3 will side of the me, jeremy mercedes leaving germany. great is total destroyed, and is going to be costing over $500000000000.00 to just to rebuild it. the west is not gonna remove it. i think that's the biggest question. well the, what's the resources and the price? what we may find out, i mean, i suppose by the time this program here is we may know more details,

but i mean they're, they're banding about a trillion dollar, another trillion dollars and we'll take it in small bills. thank you very much. i mean, this is extraordinary here. you know, great there's, you know, i actually, you know, before all of this happened in 2014, to the present. i used to go to ukraine a lot, and i really love ukraine. and i really enjoyed visiting kevin and meeting with ukrainian people. and i actually care a lot about the country to this day. and the only way ukraine is going to survive. europe is going to survive and the world is going to survive. and we go back to the helsinki idea of security in the visibility of security, that's the only way out. okay, and that is ensures that ukraine, at least in some form, will survive the past the, the zalinski crowd is going down. a sure is that ukraine may face destruction, complete destruction. go ahead, greg, and sweep to you about your duty colon. since this is the problem,

i mean most of these people love, at least it guy try, is in heavy stokes, above woods and just look at them. ok. let's existence in the moment. but zimmerman speed great, uh, to garbage of what ive been ukraine's independence was absolutely lost. i mean, so when he, when he was to go, it would be a type of the boss which is why the, the always so you observe is live do clients independence was all about. and i mean, but i think the, the issue now is a bit like the base, like literally the existence as awesome, potable rates and late. and you get all these people talking about like the, the dose of the conference, a knock and 45. and that, you know, i rush, it was on his knees and that was going to divide up, rush or off to it. say,

you don't live in reality. and i mean, i think one of the things which is going to tell is as a lives he has done the, i suppose the right the from find that in the, the public can do that. he believes that he is a subject and not involved jake, all these games and i mean his big bonding is getting a little bit too high for kind of foot for some of these people. so i mean, the volume of the move to the when you're trying and zalinski and the rest of the drugs, this is what the us us with the dentist i, i, i, this is what i taught when this was all beginning. i told i had a good friend of mine, she has family and ukraine's big, but you know that they're not fearful because america is on our side and they said they will dump you when it's appropriate when you're no longer are necessary and

it's happening right now. steve, and i think what are the last minute here goes to steve. and i think the bi monthly administration wants to give a gift to a potential trump administration. and that is this failed ukraine project. they just want to drop it in their lap and they'll say, see, trump the last few crane. go ahead, steven. exactly. maybe that's the. that was the reason why by then i was very trump has, but the on the more serious most uh my question is what comes next? because i think that is the last piece already a person of the box. he just got so he's award and the don't that strong his crumbling what i'm thinking of is these statements of atlanta available said this move always next to what is that supposed to mean? and it's very indicative of that. also, president of the cycle side of the back on bell rose was marked the beginning more 3. so maybe these people are already on talking about. of course major people are

already thinking about what comes next. well, steven, steven, i'm sure all of you and our viewers saw that the last interview with victoria, new and, and that smirk on her face. they've got plans, they still got big plans. we could have to leave it there gentlemen. i want to take my guess in belgrade basil and in sweden. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r t c. and next time, remember, prospect rules, the the, [000:00:00;00]

the take a fresh look around his life. kaleidoscopic isn't just a shifted reality distortion by power to division with no real opinions. fixtures designed to simplify will confuse who really wants a better wills. and is it just as a chosen few fractured images presented to this,

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