[000:00:00;00] the i'm action retents here. welcome back to going underground, broadcasting all around the world, from the u. a. today, the foreign minister of the superpower of this century, china, when he and his friend russian foreign minister, such a lever of joins on voice from cuba. inside the arabia, the shad. you'll un general assembly in new york. it isn't. it's nato and all out war on palestine, 111 and the nature was on russia through ukraine and china through ty, one. it comes as nato countries institute of immoral william cubs on freedom of speech with mess. specification of protest is in the value of the beast event by the usa, but also the persecution stretches the us puppet proxies in western europe. in

britain, john lists like which had met us get turned by again. sarah wilkerson have faced you case, state progression of the section 12 of the terrorism max, even the great palestinian scholar and author of return about sydney and memoir in search of fatima and married to another man doctor got economy has been questioned by you. k security forces and ex associated fellow at m a 6 link chatham house, and they just book is one stage the only democratic future for palestine, israel, she joins me now from london. a dr. economy. thank you so much. you've been one of the most eloquent to tell us all the crimes committed against palestine by u. k. u. s. you um does have premises. i wanna get to the genocide in the war and devin in, in a minute. but uh, i mean, unbelievably, just, um you have been targeted thrown out of labor by a style man and his regime and questioned by police just

what happened before we get into the geo political context of what happened to you on a micro level as well. so slowly i was expelled from the labor of body . uh, but usually because, um i, i, they, uh, i had been a member for since 1986. i think. um, and uh, about 18 months ago. um the, uh, something the uh, the patch. uh, and they said you are accused of and some of them. uh now the editors. zip forward was various articles i have written. uh, one of them was 4 years old. and they were not recent. and they were off to close. uh which is due to a 100 and about is around that's what i always write about. that is what i speak about is around not jewish there,

but israel. so i wrote back then i few additions. so i heard back and i said, i did this new anti semitism. yeah, i shoot the accusation. this is about as well. and i've always been concerned about is there is, there is a state, it is not the predicted category i so your acquisitions are baseless. and that was that it was just, i had never bought a direct apple. they came back with i think an identical they just should be should judge again and friends we've had jeremy called in on this program and, you know, he's been take taft. yeah. obviously. and he's the full, the leader of the body. that body and i sorry to interrupt, but these really invested to britain was invited this week to be style my labor conference to be auto valley. and he said every school, every mosque, every 2nd house as a legitimate target for as well. so you know,

maybe you will please join us in that policy. well frankly. ready i wouldn't want to be in the party, the bike is summer. i don't want to be in a property that you should see a lot. i'm to israel a and a have to come to sort of to the police when i, when i hear about because that's a neg, another o p o. well, this was really something completely unexpected and did it at the beginning of this year this year? well, i received an invitation to a books as well, and that's fine because about my new book, which kind of, you mentioned one state. and i was invited to give a talk about this book. so i went along, this is, this takes place, this book textbook takes space in a small, a, c, p, a town in sausage love, that it's a, it's a non core luis. and, and, you know, the,

the sort of people that come to the festival and educated what you do, both the 9 on the front line, the van to find that the fed into 5 isn't too late. so, you know, i timed up with my, with my book and i started to speak and i said i was addressing the audience, which was your typically, well, meaning english people, my doubts really had an awful lot to do with what they called sign it. and so i said, let me just kind of find, 1st of all, there are organizations and a names that you hear. you may not know necessarily or there is to know about them . let me just start off by telling me something about how much i now you may know or the org is me. know that your message did you find in the west in britain in

particular, it is um, it is classified as a terrorist organization. so when i spoke i should have that this is actually a student, richard who a party at the. ready a, i have various functions because they are the former government garza and or so they have a section which is a resistance against opposition, resistance against israel. that's what, how much is um and somebody in the audience is hooked up and said, you haven't said they're a terrorist organization, a power outage i was told, much need to they did she mention him as in a public meeting, you have to see a prescribed terrorist organization you have to add that and so. ready i haven't done that under this person,

said that you use supporters for there is most of me and i said no, no, i should. i didn't mention that because it wasn't speaking to you. the representing the by the she knew won't give you that as an instructor agreed not to have much as a terrorist organization and a half. that was that this person went a complaint to the police that she was very distressed by what i've said, etc. please go to touch with me. i couldn't believe it is about 2 or 3 weeks off to the bestbuy for the boxes. but he's going to go up saying you are accused of being supported terrorism. and we'd like to interview, and this is an interview under caution. so 8 to 4 months. and i really, really, i could not believe this was happening to me. i was to the size boxes and to go there without the lawyer. so i actually got in touch with, she stopped,

they looked off to me and it was, it was back serious. so am i on the founding is it is against the law in, in britain, in this way. i mean, they can, the police can stop you without reasonable suspicion. and as you say, by lebanese resistance, guys, a resistance, all of that is considered a terrorist. these are, these are terrorist groups. but anyway, despite all of that, most british people are against the genocide and against the stomach. governments are coming or israel poll show, most americans support the palestine at. now. does that mean it's even more critically important of critical importance? the legislation in the united states obviously has the 1st amendment, so it's much more difficult there though they have come the mass student protests against the the genocide you can say britain,

presume these are all important now to legislate so that i don't know works of fiction what's of aut works of culture? what's a journalism? all of this can be, can be prevented from reaching the public now in britain and invest in europe. yes, this is a serious indeed. you know, is realize have been in the and it has a very, very. ready big reach. so if we go to a situation now where uh, if you never mind why to or speaking about the sign or, or how mass or whatever actually issue when a badge which shows the published in slab or shows something like, or has a silken, like sleep out of sign, this can also then in trouble, the receipt of the neighbor party conference is just ended here in britain and

a somebody a was removed from the hole because he was wearing a badge which said free pat aside. i used to smooth badges with no talking about huge flag. so you know, it's like that. it is extremely serious. the thing is that i know you mentioned a is really power there and we've had joined much time or on the professor from chicago is wrote these really low b and the course that i'm john, excuse me, in on. but, you know, i, we, as everyone made a big mistake and it's not actually israel, i mean these headlines by didn't fails to rain and yahoo, as risk of allowed war increases is, is not really the united states that is doing this. instead of blaming israel. you brain wash an entire population into believing a little arabs are evil. so there's a whole low cost in western europe. and then you pull british,

your pin and the american weapons, and then you know, in the, is there any occupational voices in me any pulling the trigger? is it not a product of us empire is plus not missing from this analysis. yes, i agree with you. i agree with you because you she so as long as you can a, a point to sing the name at an individual in this case making yahoo o, at something called the is around not be at then in a way you are observing. the real culprits here, which on the, the, the head should be as part of the american bar. and in that sense of britain and other european countries are complicit of working with the american empire in order to impose their run,

their will on peoples in many boxes. well, this is not, you know, this is part of this is part of the american. the street was responsible to the bridge issues where people probably went out to other parts of the world. uh, engaged in what we can cause you to be in genocide to act. there was new t v shots what they did at the time, but i have no doubt they would it be similar to the ext if we didn't seem to be treated by israel? they would have been done against native americans against appalachian mountain australia, against native canadians. we will never know, but we must assume that that's what happens. and as a result of those generals tried to act against indigenous people at britain established itself as the you rose and then you inhabitants of these areas search.

this is something in the history, one could say the dna, a return and of the west. and unfortunately, we in palestine are having to suffer today, the kind of a tradition which should have been over at the end of the 19th century. but unfortunately, at a small um and step when they established the sutler calling me that the point is around. but in reality, it, they did it by, at those measurements that they employed previously to come to america, etc. so it's all bad luck that we were a coach in this read at a time,

which is when we're over the world and there was a shift away from clear. and, you know, some from in period is on to independence frontier the economy. i'll just stop here, the more from the author of one state to be only democratic future for palestine is real off to this break the,

[000:00:00;00] the, [000:00:00;00] the welcome back to going on the right. and i'm still here with the author, one state, the only democratic future of, of alice and his real doctor got the economy doctor economy. i interrupted you in the fall when were you were talking about the timing of this latest to genocide. i should just add before i let you continue on on that, that, why is it john list? listen to and, and he blinked and i don't know what you think when he speaks about how he's trying desperately to stop this genocide when in fact uh what he never use of the word genocide when in fact he's boring in the weapons and giving cover and support

without which the genocide could all continue quite frankly, in the fall, what do you think? i would be very embarrassed. i would be too embarrassed to look. might see lucas, my space memory. because how he can carry out the shot of visiting various countries. talking about spar, talking about american the american road in, in bringing a piece of resolution to the company. how we can do that for the straight face here . no. because he, he knows very well that there is a way in which these can all come at the, the even i did stage turns the pop offs as you um the, um,

so they're providing each room from said providing israel in order to keep the genocide doing well, they have to do is done time to tap off. i'd say right, is an sorry, that's a new mark. you're on your own, it'll be in the end to the general side. and the end of, of the, of the current phase of this company. they don't do it, and therefore, all the speeches they make, all these attempts at. and i don't know how they have this sort of colorful vocabulary like new student on tongue or working night and day this stuff in order to try to persuade people that they really are continuing the assets while i'm doing very well. they are a doing in a betting, and in fact, there are 2 a spend those i'm but then,

but why did the journalist believe this story that it is bite and genocide? joe and our goal is terrace. that. that'd be the, the brakes on the increasing the regional whitening war as israel bones a, syria, iraq, iran never than a human and probably jordan to the mix. well no. jordan has nothing to mix. jordan is very essential in as part of the scheme because jordan is a buffer state. the project is around from a sources deal. i think even join even that you wouldn't have the king refused to meet netanyahu. i joined the course of these events, and even some of these a usually trusted allies of israel are not responding. now. i do indeed look, it's really difficult for, i mean, there's a whole other subject about the, the arab states. what there really is how they continue to

maintain different magic ties with israel. it's quite extraordinary. you know, that's not, that's not a single state has expelled. these really invested the has terminated. it's diplomatic ties to israel has well not satisfied the array of years. certainly not doing what the americans want them want them to do. but, but i mean back to what i was saying earlier, does that mean that the whole, you know, edward said many people talk about the christian palestinian scholar edward site is the source of so much knowledge of generations. i've been to a time for that. there was a critique by age, as i'm would famously the indian scroll a bit is all of what has been written about palestine and obviously your book moves on the debates to make one state solution a sense of states. thing i want to get on to that as it mr. trick that this is about the united states and empire. it's north about his right. it's north about

the bell for a declaration. i suppose the vassal britain know of as to states of united states. and does that mean the united states has to be attacked directly? the lebanese resistance moved once and the resistance, reuben delagarza, they don't know, they're not going to make any impact by attacking israel. it doesn't have to be, you know, uh or nothing is there. and it has a very important group to play in a, in the question of getting there. and so by attracting for, uh, uh, restricting, the freedom of action is around you would get that the unimportant rocks of the american them by. no, i don't see that you can just say we read israel alone and let's just go for

america. but that does not mean one is not when you have to be aware of the relationships. yeah. you have to be aware that this is the way it works. so when you are engaged in political resistance or action of any kind and have to understand what it is you're really doing. now, i think that israel is one of the most important tools of the fire. and you can see that by the way, that all the western states made by america are a dish sprint to protect israel and to keep retorted streets. uh so you know, that shows you, it's a measure of expanding to them. so therefore, if you attack it with you, obviously you a text that as well, but you do, it doesn't say knowing, knowing, knowing what you're doing. the palestine has diverse near universal the

international community. if i can use that phrase, which is so misuse in media or in nato countries, a backs palestine daily and yet still from russia and from china. the 2 most important members, arguably on the security council, who i don't know whether you feel could be doing more. they talk about a 2 state solution that may be because boots in and she didn't being as no read your latest book. but why is it they this phrase is used still by lead is of countries, but i've expressed absolute solidarity with the palestinian cause. most countries in the world probably yeah. the story of the 2 state solution is distorted already to you know, um the, the, the issue which actually conversed because don't understand is that the notion of

a palestinian state. um, as alongside d is really state which is the 2 state solution. this is something that was issued by the palestinians themselves at but the reason for them doing that is a bit did you? it's nursing. they did do it on some reason that the palestinians were interested in that idea was because they have feelings. and then this for 2 months that they would use the whole country. and that's exactly what's happening now that they didn't want to the news or another spot. so in a way what it was saying was, okay, let's have a smooth pump. and it's not even though it's on that you don't get the original native population, 22 percent of the original whole 9. and it's so that's an option. however,

the brothers to me and you were saying as it was, look, we'll take that for now and uh, you know, you've decide to know the date. so it's, that was the process to me and the honest alice in position no matter the the side, the language in which it was dressed up at. now the idea of 2 states was poundstone by the west. because if you think about it, it shows it from phillips quite a few functions. first of all, if you talk about to stage, it means you are not the n t is right. is where continues to be that exactly as it says, the shape does it runs in 2 states, sir, it's her is present in the 2 states. however, at the same time, you as a 3rd party, as, as the so called international community on not seeing israel must continue and to help with the palestinians. oh,

nothing to. we're seeing the publish team as design as something for good sense, so really hurting it for a state for the palestinians, even though it's on a 5th of their original. that is the truth about the 2 state solution. and these people are, and if you know these forces and actors who support society, they want to be honest and see what i've just said, which is that this is not have on the indigenous people, at least if you want to sugar land, make it 5050 if your making it at a 8020 at your it's been around fat. ok. it's the most that we can try to a lot to the past. that would be the only specific and independent symbols could make some sort of choice. but what they've done is they've talked about the 2 state

solution and have not lifted a finger to make it up. i have said nothing in my book, but on many ok if you believe it in the 2 states and then you, i'm the obligation to show us how it can happen. because if you look at the map, look of the map of israel, i don't even mean now. i mean, before, 20 years ago, following 1967. you could see the number of is really cooling is springing up on over the west bank and of the time, or because or so on. what piece of land is the balancing is the going to be which i'm going to make that all the more strange that the driver and rusher i can be a so using that phrase may be. but just finally, as we're running out of time britain using accurate terry base,

i don't know how many soldiers that we don't know that keeping it secret about their aid to israel, full, the genocide, making them complicit bill buns at the c. i a back and forth with most that you worked at the p a and the palestinian authority. how to blame? aside from all of that, is the elite plus of palestinian bureaucracy for the genocide of a like of which we haven't seen. i'll give a since the holocaust so i don't think that to be there to take that to beat. so the trend of side. no, i think it's really squarely behind the genocide and it's western backups that's let's be clear about that box. you could talk about the fact that the, uh, the, the routing in each of the palestinians has not done anything

really about opposing set aside except by talking about just so they've continued with the same arrangements. israel, however, i don't really tell them to, to, i don't expect much more of an i don't see people race time criticizing because this is as a bad assume it was, or this is something that was set up on the patient. it was set up by the fire by the colonize those arrangements on not 80 and a tour to world history. okay. i agree with dr. got it kind of me, sorry, we run out of time and thank you so much i as well, thank to and i would very much to read my book and get understood why it is that i use paper one state over the 2 state solution. thank you. that's after the show, all continued condolences to those very by you k u. s. and you, i'm jealous, i will be back on monday to investigate who is really pulling the strings behind vitamin hours in washington with monica obama, brother of the $44.00 of us president barack obama. until then keep it to us. why

will i social media if it's not sensitive? we'll country and i to a channel going on. they're going to be on the come to us, new and old episodes are going underground. see monday. the needle is having a very difficult time trying to find consensus. they are having a very difficult time even now trying to get some of their countries to commit towards you know, armaments lending. i mean even within the european union, you have countries like slovakia and hungary that are openly keeps saying that we

will not embargo russian gas. we will not accept you premium green because it hurts our own economies. the, [000:00:00;00] the way of is really strikes is reported in the lab and these capital overnights us casualties 9 the, i'm at the sides of the attack where it is to be able to fly wasn't strategic or targeted. it was a carpet bombing on the residential area of stuff here are corresponded in bed root there at the scene of