so i had last 14 years on the health risk embassy, sage, and maximum security prison. so i think this is an important lesson that when a major power faction wants to reinterpret the law, it can push to have the elements of the state. in this case, the u. s. department justice to that and it doesn't care too much about what is legal and that's something for much later day. in the meantime, the deterrent effect that it's 6, the rich beat of actions that it see. 6, i've had their effect. thank you, mr. lee,

could i invite you to put a question to mr. songs. thank you. obviously that's very considerable sympathy for your plight in this room. i like to ask you about the position of the u. k. government about the allegations that you are effectively a political president, but presumably the 1st, your 1st difficulty with the european arrest board was not on political grounds with sweden. i'd like to ask you with your, you'll come into on the quality of treatment to the expedition treaties. between the u. k and the us and web a, c u k is about bound by them. and whether we have very visual re, freedom of a move. uh, i like to ask you about your treatment at belmont prison. there's a navigation of torture, which is a serious nobody denies a bell. ma, she's an extremely unpleasant place, but i like to know a bit more about the evidence. the

u. s. u. k. expedition treaty is one sided 9 times more people expedited to the united states from the u. k. then the other way around the protections for us citizens, phoenix, side you k is stronger. there is no need to show a permanent face the case or reasonable suspicion, even when united states 6 to expedite from the u. k. it's a allegation execution system. the obligation is alleged you do not even have a chance to argue that it is not true. all the arguments is based simply upon is it the right person? does a breach human rights? that's it. that said,

i do not think in any way that you k judges are compelled to expedite most people, and particularly journalists to the united states and some judges in the u. k. found in my favor at different stages in that process of the judges did not but o judges. without finding, in my favor or not in united kingdom, showed extraordinary difference to the united states. engaged in astonishing, intellectual back flips to allow the united states to have its way as my expedition and in

relation to setting precedents that occurred. in my case, a more broad that's a, to my mind, a function of the selection of u. k. judges. the narrow section of british society from which they come their deep engagement with the u. k. establishment and the u. k. establishment. deep engagement with united states. whether that's in the intelligence sector. be a deep which is now the largest spaniel, largest manufacturer in the united kingdom weapons company, b, p. shell. and some of the major banks the united kingdom's establishment is made up out of people

who have benefited from that system for a long period of time. and, and almost old judges from it. they don't need to be told explicitly what to do. they understand what is good for that cohort. and what is good for that cohort is keeping a good relationship with the united states government belmont. so thank you. i missed the for this to lee, as i indicated earlier. one question from each member of the committee. thank you mr. after the tone this that you that you that you, i apologize. i'm very glad so you very happy seeing your freemont does that sound that's come from. and so i think that's one of the major lessons learned from your experience in the treatment. who cuts is that that means

use all for a liquid process. the application of legislation may or end of a mean or a tour of repression or a elicitation to silence. can i have uh your comments on that cuz i didn't quite hear you. can you please repeat the question and raise your hand. i can see what comes out from your experience and the truth when you receive is that the means use that diversity means you are so many palatial, fairly good process can or may are into the application of the installation

of the link. i process it and it toured the mean over depression and institutions of silence instead of a uniform application of, of law. you know, that will overlook society. kind of have your comments about law fair is the use of the law to achieve ends. and that would normally be changed in some other formal complaint. we're not talking about simply litigating to protect your rights and federal the picking laws. to get this, you'll man what to get the organization. you want to get a not justice seeking its resolution in law. and we've seen

a lot of cases like that, and it's obviously experienced ourselves felt the many different domains i'm not sure precisely what can be done about it. that is a anti slap movement in europe, which i commend. slap is strategic lawsuits against public participation. and there is good legislation in california to deal with slap suits and to reverse liabilities at an early stage. and to make it easy because it's more expensive to conduct but i think we should understand it a bigger picture, which is that whenever we make a law, we create

a tool that so if you're interested bureaucrats, companies and the worst elements of the security state will use and will expand the interpretation in order to achieve control by the office. and that's why lower forms that are constantly needed because laws are abused and expanded. and so it needs a constant vigilance, but also great k in making goals in the 1st place. because they will be seized upon and abused. thank you, mr. boss, which could not invite you to address the question to mr. songs. thank you. thank you to use the sams, your opinions here is very important for the case you symbolizing. but

it is also very important for the council of europe to show itself as the independent institution and execution that promotes really if you own rights and the cause you represent. i wonder how do you assess the support you got from the newspapers? journalists associations generally assessed ations. and how does that, how does that? what's the message about the freedom of press, in your case the support from other publications general is unions. freedom of expression. organizations is different at different stages. the. those who saw

the threats to everyone else and understood the case 1st with the lawyers involved in major publications like lawyers for the new york times. freedom expression in jose were the next to see the threats of the larger media organizations. unfortunately, many of them went with their a political geo political alignment. and so it was easy to gain support from major organizations in utah states and obviously states hostile it's united states and its allies of united states took longer

media organizations within the united states. the journalist, the not the lawyers, but the journalist took longer still it is a concern. and i, i can see a similar phenomenon happening with the general has been killed in gaza. and ukraine. that the political and geo political alignment or media organizations causes them to not cover those victims will cover only certain victims. and this is a breach of general stake solidarity. we all need to stick together to hold the line the general sense it anywhere sprayed censorship,

which can then affect the sol similarly, journalist being killed or targeted by intelligence agencies. need alpha commitment in writing or in bro cost. um, sometimes there's a debates about whether someone is a journalist or an activist. i understand that debate and as i've tried in my work to be rigorously accurate, i believe accuracy's everything prime resources, everything. but there is one area where i am an activist and older. the last must be an act. this journalist must be active, is for the truth. the

general, then what's must be active is for the ability to convey the truth. and that means standing up for each other and making no apologies about thank you. now, could i invite any of the member of the parliamentary assembly who is not a member of the committee to indicate if they wish to ask a question. and i can see 2 hands in there. could i invite you 1st of all to give your name and then to ask your questions mr. i sounds. thank you. thank you sir. my name is on decreased the model, manian the m b and then most of the general rep or the for science and technology. all of these house, most of the rep or the on the so called the methyl verse, and we start to finish. i would like to ask you, how do you see these new technologies connected to what you have presented so far?

think i'm very interested in technology and i was a computer scientists from a young age sin, studied mathematics and physics and cryptography. and it's, we've got cryptography that we set about our system to protect sources and protect our in organizations. um i am confused about some of the developments that are happening with cryptography. some of those developments provide alternatives to what we see is huge media power and concentration in the hands of a few 1000000000. is that still embryonic of the

technologies emerged out of the campaign against mass surveillance through and the big bang was the smoking revelations that radicalized engineers and programs in many places who sold themselves as agents of history in including algorithms, to protect people's privacy, including the communications between jonas and this also was on the other hand, as i moved from prison, i see that out of your show intelligence is being used to create mess, assassinations. where before there was the difference between assassination and

warfare. now the to a controlling and when you wear many, perhaps the majority of targets in gaza. stop on desert results, paused, artificial intelligence targeting the connection between artificial intelligence and surveillance is important. and all the visual intelligence needs information to come up with targets or ideas or propaganda. and what am i talking about? the use of artificial intelligence can to conduct mess assassinations,

surveillance data from telephones. internet is key to training those algorithms. so it does a lot has changed some things that remain the same. there's a lot of opportunity and a lot of risk. i'm still trying to understand where we are and that's, hopefully we'll have something more useful to say your costs are too much of a sand. now, that was an indication from another member of the assembly. could you please include your seo yourself by name? thank you. yes, thank you, mr. jeff. my name is steven david and i am from gemini, and both of foreign affairs. someone owes julian since 2012 from the ecuadorian embassy as the 1st member of parliament who has visited him so

jude. and i'm very happy to see you as a free man. now you are welcome. and i was just going to ask you about the war crimes, the us war crimes that you published us still on punished still till today the june of this audit. and now there are presumably your crimes in the proxy was such as in gaza and currently in live on. so my questions are how would you advise a journalist to deal with this current situation 1st. and the 2nd is, what do you think is the role of parliamentarians in this? we got into this the results

and sorry, i'm getting a bit tired, but uh christine practice. you want to take the is the one let's, let's do, let's do about well what can be done when we have a horrible stories about the, a targeted killings where we haven't know have the evidence of that in, in and, and, and it was, it is the reality or for the recording on wars is more severe than ever before and it was bad, it was bad. and the rug ma what is even worse. it is a horror story. it is hard to give all the advice for these children is how they can deal with that situation. the only thing we can call out so at least is for an outcry and, and condemnation that this should be going on because we need information. we need

this information. uh, there are no tools to uh, to secure individuals and go so that are being followed by drones. and i'm being targeted in mass booming. uh there is a little, it depends on that. but the, the outcry and the combination should be that we should not be silent when this happens right? you formulate, i don't want to get told difficult and interrupt formally 8 floors with you mr. phones. but if you're tiring, just indicate that because i think you've answered so many questions so fully and so well. and we are at the point where if you wish this message to be drawn to close, we have only a few minutes left anyway. then i'm sure everyone in this room was respect

the mr. sounds we'd like to see some find the words and i hope you'll bear with them. thank you. just a few final words. in 2010. i was living in paris. i went to united kingdom and never came back until now it's good to be back. it's good to be

amongst people who lets me say in a straight you who give it then it's good to be amongst friends. i would just like to think all the people who have fought for miles of ration and who have understood unfortunately that's my liberation was coupled to their own liberation. and that the basic fundamental liberties which sustain us will have to be fought for. and when one

of us falls through the cracks, soon enough, those cracks were widen and take the rest of us down. so thank you for your thoughts. carriage in this and other settings. and keep up to find the . it's just amazing comment tree that live from stroudsburg from so you are watching as a with helix co founder julian a sondra enjoying a bit of freedom off the 14 years of attention in the u. k. are joining us on speaking of the council of europe on is yeah, as long potential. just the last, the last 7 2nd. when you are watching right there was q and a between a well,

patry it's and compact true is that people who, who, who so solidarity within us anjanette and, and agree with a lot of the things he said and agree with a lot of the truths that he exposed and what we've just been seeing for the past hour and a half. it's just been a, a just a rush of truth bombs. just quickly, julian, that's on your side. at the end of the day to get out of prison. he eventually chose freedom over an unattainable justice. you said the us government insisted in writing and it's plea agreement that i saw and cannot file any sued any where the counts of europe a quarter of human rights or elsewhere. as on said, i'm not free today because the system works. i'm free today of to years of prison and he had to plead guilty to journalist i know i know pertaining information from a source. he put guilty to informing the public as to what that information was. he said he did not plead guilty to anything else. i saw you said today there was most secrecy. i'm more retaliation for simply telling the truth. but us a saw and says,

has crossed the rubicon for criminalizing journalism, you said weekly, is, was all about people learning the truth in the world. he said, knowledge empowers us to hold power to account. he said we cliques, obtained and published terrible truths about the us military about is assassination programs. it's rendition programs and then a song you said he did the moral duty to inform the public. he said, for example, he said the war and ukraine i seen the west criminalizing journalism in russia. you said the writes of journalist and the european space are seriously threatened. and a key pointing, made of journalism is not a crime. it is the main pillar of a free, unfair society, some really intriguing country that from the free man as he is now today, julian hassan with his friends in the audience that are the council of europe. you'll see a big ride top going online in just a moment on our website that will be oxy dot com.

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