the, the sooner time see, and welcome back to going underground will cost to go around the world from the u. a. in the heart of the middle east on the day 38 years ago, the well did confirmation of these rails may be 200 nuclear weapons. good to see the usa of outside south africa. and one of the hollywood store film produces israel has to this day no, come clean. the new k, a whistle blower motor car avenue, new would be honey draft and kid that from london by room for his revelations before decades long torture in his riley prison. the world today turns to the prospect of the use of those nuclear weapons by u. s. u k. u back to israel. this after a run, finally retaliated for the gaza genocide. the test run this as a nation of palestine chief negotiator attacks on the radian diplomats and the killing of thousands and babies to a res iconic lebanese resistance lead to aside, let's try the wind circle genocide. jo, how it goes terrace, now?

presiding over millions, display skilled a wounded, mostly women and children right across this region. i'm joined now from rome by alice to cook. you k, diplomat and full. they you foreign policy. chief advisor is the founder and director of the babies based conflicts for him and all of their a resistance, the essence of the as the mist revolution. thank you so much alice, of joining us again. it's been a while. lots happened in the era as you're on the going on the route. i think at the beginning of this year, you can see from the headlines. is there any one of course story, and that's a do by based gulf. the news you run attacks that israel vfc, the japanese paper thing, israel steps up a tax on the wrong proxies as if they're all just their own proxies everywhere. i guess 1st your take on whether there is now there's no real us defendants. they said the largest fleet, the united states has in this area and then at least in the mediterranean,

didn't seem to scan your own. no, i think that was deaf. would have been a mistake. i don't think there's been a lot of talk about it wrong being frightened or scared or does to it boss invests . in fact, it was a calculated decision maybe or in the wrong, by the leadership. this, it would not want to cause a regional white will a big war in other words, in the region. but for all sorts of reasons, i mean not because they were particularly fright deposit. they've been preparing for it for about 20 years. but simply because a lot of this happening and very much aware of being very closely in touch with most of as you know, um the payment issue is ready coming to ahead of the moment. yes. and the most moment of crisis for the united states facing a major,

major defeat of the us, the and the secondly, because the brick summit is coming up on the 25th of this month. and i think that both the most go and care um and of course, basing would like this to parcel well and to be a substantial meeting with many new initiatives and honest. yeah, i mean i, i do want to get back to this region, but india is foreign minister jason cars width binds and i mean, i'm not sure whether anyone is with the bible is it was in the white house and it goes to india has a huge and international know it's a transport car door operation going, which iran is an important essential part to the united states to understand what's happening in the brakes and what will be discussed in cars on the tool or they're

just signaling. look, uh the all american interests in the region should activate against the threats of a run just when india is doing a massive deal with a ron, as is russia. and as is china i, i don't think that at the moment there is much understanding of the middle east, but i think most of them at least experts that were in state department and other places have been removed. they have been removed. we have a being run essentially by people who do not have much expertise in it, or if they have expertise like pay most cost time, it is really from the is really perspective problem from a united states perspective. that's the us ongoing. it was an idea for us us as basically as rails man in the abiding cabinet. yes, he has her, he has an office in the white house, a he moved from state to buckland,

where he did the demarcation negotiations with lebanon, about maritime areas. so the expiration and then he went into the white house with one secretary and the team in the state department was dissolved as i understand it . so he sort of all breaks is a one man band out to the white house. yeah, well, i want to explore whether it is incompetence or it is actually by design. i'll give it a but just briefly when it comes to the incompetent side of things, a rookie mistake by a president possess scan of the wrong to come out with the bizarre statement that somehow he'd had ej assurances that restraint would be rewarded. restraint from the wrong would be rewarded in the light of the smile on the mud or in the tear on which we between. and the reward of course was not swallowed as escalation. i mean, basically basically i suppose you will put it in those terms. but as it has been,

the was sort of there is politics involved and less than 10 are wrong. and i think that when, as ash can, who doesn't have that sort of experience was made for president. he was pretty well captured to can we say by the basically by as i read some cut to me sort of a crew and in iraq. and so he did. and to his embarrassment, he did believe assurance is that he was given a by you your appear on an american. both are see is that the would be substances relief of sanctions for iran and the would be a guaranteed ceased car. and, and garza on terms that would be acceptable to hum us. and as he said,

it is into view of 2 woods um they live. none of it was true. um, so this being a lot of anger in iran and a lot of soul searching soul searching because ron, who's being very careful and it's reactions it is shown great. so for strange, really dating back to the killing of customs. so the money, but also off to the attack on the syrian on the consulate in syria and damascus, where it radium generally was killed. but uh, at that point they did mitigate very much what drones and miss house 5, but it was costly orchestra and of the lot here and who was a for a minister that time off to it's both. and he said that, you know, what we call to get this right. i mean,

in the sense that we are trying to be restraining and lost a lot of this conflict to escalates into a wider war. but we've called to maintain that sort of sense of deterrence. and we've got to maintain a sense of strength. so there is of been a lot of criticism this restraint, much advocates, it if you like, by that or a full mist wing, been the wrong, has contributed to some extent of play, but contributed perhaps, to israel's feeling and part to be able to take out the whole of that has been a leadership including said, house on the throttle and then to attack the level of across the board. i mean uh from all sides of level them. i mean, is riley suffering the soldier because a treat whereby they are dividing up their routes into sort of sectors and telling

people to evacuate one sector, move to another sector. and then when they called the, as i told to move back, because that sector is about to be attack. so there are more than the 1000000 displaced from the homes and the something a large number, i think 1500 killed them about 8000 injured. but these are not as bullet people the so basically ordinary level needs that being said to be connected with as well. and of course we have the same the same justifications. oh yes. um. has buller as hiding behind the people? he's using them as human shields in every house. there is they produce this fantastic idea of a sort of missile at b and b, whereby lebanese was sort of keeping me solace in the homes. i'm getting a small fee from his bullet for doing so. this is all nonsense complete nonsense

because i was in lebanon in 2006, and before and often during the war, and even before the war has put a to great effort to make sure the one know up on sol, o quit in the military assets that were anywhere near the level these villages or cost, so they kept them wise away from it. so the idea that they know having this house in the attic and things is just a typical propaganda. but it has no no basis. but it's being used for the tax and the impacts are as in gaza, intended to put pressure on the civilian lebanese population. imagining that back end to turn on on his book, in fact, fall more than in 2006, a lebanese with just the usual exceptions. let's go monitor them. suppose that this, i'm with the, for our minister and the president. think, you know,

we stand as while this is an attack on the 11th the system to attack on, on as bo, we are being attacked right up through the back car and across a level and, and didn't pay a route. so it's very different. but yes, there is a very awful lot of criticism of iran and the wrong is having to look for a half a. you know, there is a real got it. i mean, you know, i don't want to make it sound so simplistic like you know, but it is, this is just contributed to it. i mean, those are ro dilemma. you can use self restraint if you like, in order to try and avoid going to abroad a war that is in the interest. they run the interest of a rush as the interest of or the region not to have a full. i'll, i'll turn out well, but at the same time, the other side cause that i remember it,

is that actually by too much self restraint, you end up ways. um, if you like escalation and you end up with a wall anyway. and sometimes you find the bike cell for a screen, i actually will comes to you even whether you wanted to know. so the question was, and this is why i think we had this officer and it was the honest, as it came from the supreme national security council, i just remind viewers that possession who has had a lot of publicity, who has no say in these decisions. this is not his field for him policy security policy lies in calling with the supreme national security council on those of supreme lead up the supreme leave that makes the laws decision most the press stuck is basically concerned with domestic administration of the state, but not with foreign policy and off with security. how's that work?

i'll stop you about more from the former advisor on middle east issues. the foreign policy chief ivy as a loaner after this break, the the so i think people disgusted with what's going on with that, sending huge amounts of money to the lensky in terms of weapons to kill russians when actually we're taking money away from people that have been one of the big things in the tell you that i know about domestically is that the car and labor government have taken one and a half 1000000000 pounds away from the

the plug it back to going underground. i'm still here with us decrypt for the british diplomat and founder and going director of the baby based conflicts for him . a house during part one. you were talking to me about business getting not having a foreign policy control in iran. i mean, arguably, i mean i lived in tyrone he does have power to resign at any rate, but as regards and i should also add as regards to what he wrote chest. so it goes to the side of the national security. that is true, is the true. so maybe he was power to it's, i don't know, but there's a lot of, i mean it's a very scroll to issue, but i just want to underline, i mean, iran is not alone in the style. lemme which i well did rush, i give them bad advice, reflected rush, i give them bad advice. me sure. stood by me just to make sure you know the day before as well. you know, russia has had had the same dilemma and during the war and new, great,

and there been times where they've had setbacks reverse thoughts. and they've had to stop and think and reassess. and, and actually the been changes in the, in the senior military leadership in moscow. so, i mean, these things are not confined to iran, is the general problem about this dilemma that, you know, if you act with restrain, it'll get written wrongly interpreted this weakness. and actually bring the boy you don't want on to that is the danger. and so possess cams is being much criticized for those comments that he made. and 4, in the sense, almost go behind the backups of the system to talk about them in the, with the american some with the europeans. because he does not have a mandate to do that. he does not have that monday, that lives with the security council. the note with him and it was the supreme leader who had ordered, if you liked the attack in retribution for the killing of neil. and it came from

the top that full from the head of the security council. so i'm, there is a lot of sort of concern, i'm sure it will pause, but i think that's one of the reasons we have what we had uh the, um, the recent massage of attack in, in, in iran, as iran in israel, as the iran wanted to recuperate the sort of sense of to tyrants, incense they are serious. and that also to show that they have the capability of some missile because of cost their restraint on the 13th of april, when they followed miss house full, was in type. misinterpret completely as well. we'll just, you know, they were all knocked out 99 percent, but not taught by a us above the defense systems. and so now they have to demonstrate that actually,

as wells at defense systems on not very effective. i'm not quite capable of landing a ballistic missiles i saw on target in israel in a very short notice. yeah, blanket idea of censorship at the moment of the impacts and the results of it. just some ripple is the town of may's, the fifteens. we have never to in the have 35, had to him a base in israel have 35 that 15 and not a single is riley casualty. it'd be, is to be bought uh, as regards the sell for spring criticisms can be made that like that about certainly would've, i'm advantage over the libya to backlash over, put in allowing things to get to the stage where they willing to hand stuff to them made on to and, and so forth. but is there a similar mistake being made by people who think that netanyahu is running the show here? i mean, we know by didn't said do may not. can megan in 1982. he wouldn't care. it will of

lebanon civilians were killed, a was worse them and i can bag in the, in the atrocities and 1980 to blink. and after october 7th. and he came to israel as a jew who was brought up, of course, by a lawyer uncomfy, don't of the most ads robot maxwell is still a little money in britain from the pension fund. a samuel piece us a piece are and i think is his name during comprehended maxwell. is this a plan? was this a, a genocide? 0 plan from the beginning? because then, so then jake sullivan of the national security council, the in the united states doesn't look so stupid load is blinking. that in your planning mazda strokes here, bringing the u. s, which always wanted to get involved. because clearly the us were involved in terms of the reaction to iran's retaliation using the destroys in the, in the red sea. and they're prepared for it. they're going forward. this was the plan all alone. it wasn't. i mean, i'm not, you only can say that about ukraine work that heavy. the dictators are lensky is

losing, but this is the plan to exterminate god. i think it's higher. so i think for is for, for a long time, i mean the plan, the bard garza and the pound about the west bank. and of course, destroying this bullet has been loaded about for a long time and is deeply entrenched in the israeli policy. and of course, netanyahu came to congress and elated or off very clearly he said in vice here to america, to a war against the wrong. so you few like the head of the octopus. uh, that is strangling in israel. and he said this is a war of civilization against bumper some. so everyone knew that this was sort of in, in, in the works. no, i sense there are 2 elements to this that, you know, i don't think it's so directly because of the 1st really is that i think the,

the pick up, particularly, but most the other parts of the system. but i'm certainly not, you know, they, the congress is all bullets and unless, of course, and other parts to a new cause of, certainly all the pentagon is getting increasingly worried about over extension of the americas getting overextend. bro, if you like, china is ramping up the pressure some in the pacific, and they've got it more of a carrier in the field. but the pentagon wants to put more resources that. and it's still preoccupied with ukraine. and to have a wall pin with a ron and in the middle east, with all its american bases with all its, um, uh, a few like exposure, its called her abilities. or i think it was not so popular. and i think that's

probably what made the pentagon. i actually vito's the idea from bread and from others from a blinking to a permit, the premiums the fall. so miss solves deep into the deep into rush, although that could be okay. that could change the, the moment of goes by the time does the road i could have back to that can happen, particularly in an election period. well, you know, a good, i feel like political toll keep going saw are essential and appearing tough on budget is considered to be the sort of from talking point to, to make so make for, for by him and his team. but i'm just saying, i'm not sure, and i'm not sure at this moment if it's a good idea to have a wall where they are wrong and kinda because of the electoral prospect of the policy and bar in the united states. i mean, that's

a very complicated domestic calculation, which depends on the sort of like the oil composition of these 5 swain states. and, you know, in some, there are quite substantial numbers of muslims. they belong to them already. surely by now, with the pictures we've seen from guys and 11 and the m and a nice area and there are things i, i think so, but i mean these 5 states, so very crucial. i mean the election, solano overall systems and the trying to recuperate. but i mean, actually they're getting the, digging that whole deeper and deeper with the statements that are being made and going to be uh how some last fall a is an iconic filter. there's been an iconic go. someone who has, you know, spend the low standing for national liberation and 2 colors. it was a little, have been no signs, manifestations in kashmir,

august of india, and across the middle east. venezuela. in bertina, verified that is loss. you know, i do want to get to actually go is a time in the time limited to us. i just want to say, why is it iran react using these traditional warfare means? i mean, it's a long time since carlos, the jackal was operating against the, the owners of israel as it were, the back as of israel. where's the asymmetric warfare going? i only ask because if it is true that it was be just by design and that in fact, trump, who's being fed, that iran was behind his assassination attempt. and if the bible in any case has a sponsor to the genocide and cause, if that was, if they had the power is behind it rather than all this obsession in the progressive media are arguably against that. and yahoo! he is the impetus now to attack the,

the senses of power that the metropolitan powers which are the senses of power, operating in west asia rather than using tel aviv it was, i think that the pressing festival. what you're saying is partially true, but the net who it has carried a lot of blame for what's happening. and every day one says, well, if he was lost power or something, everything would be right. i don't think that this is necessarily the correct perspective. because actually he has the support of a cabinet. he has enough support with in the capacity to survive until the 26. and he's made it always made it clear. i think he gave a a and then to be in the seventy's to hastings, the pricing a book. and he said in the next full bullying, well we will of take go through the end of expelled all of our skin in some arabs.

and i think between the river and the sea. so i mean, he's been part of this for a long, long time. his father was a private sex rate to get the tense k. so he's a gelatin ski revisionist, like most of the cabinet. and there is a majority of the trainings, it was obvious when this government came into power. and we saw that the minister, i hate the jews that come from north africa and the middle east would taking key positions. these were the people at the beginning, a broad festival into a born, and then tuesday, they cooled. and this is great. they feel, i mean, you know, that program said it will. it was obvious some time ago. what was the program to establish as the israel on? yeah, i mean is the program or a life palestinian state is the program of entity blinking,

blinking. so it's broken up by the guides of people. we haven't got that much time left. they all know scientists, we agree that based on that's, i don't think there's no difference on that. and i'm saying that actually, i mean what that is. the question is big data collective lee lee didn't to this, or did they just facilitate fits as it has a lot of the met him. yeah. who and then having to, i mean to be no restraints put on is the tool. so is it a question of passive permission given the past because they're actively all they've signed another 9 busy and the other day 2 days before the 8th through the yeah, there's nothing passive about it and straight down very quick very quickly. and finally, very quickly. finally, i should, i actually went through this with you about brittany's role with dr. terry, based on the british prime minister thing. he's all up left for it. and then then

denials that the you in the britain know a target for any resistance attack. should it become a symmetric and do strategic and outside of west asia? julian assigned you gave us so much information with the i suppose. i recall most importantly, pads at the moment. the memo from uh, jake sullivan's, hillary clinton saying isis was on the us aside in syria as long as smoke for the 1st time about his torture and the counsel of your meeting this week. how far do you think his life is in danger? away from all of these other big geostrategic topics. i mean, we did a lot of interviews with julian massage before his cafeteria to and torture by the british, of course. but i can't tell. i mean, i can give you a notice or 2 to view, but i don't think it is in danger. no, i think he's done it. his deal way had to say he knows that he was a journalist and did some things,

but i think that's probably as much as one can tell the end of it. but i mean, who knows, i mean, those are the sort of the black areas of policy that you are not allowed to see. they all kept very much in the dock. i don't know, but i think i'm hopeful anyways, he is. he's okay now as a drug, thank you. and that's of, of the show of continued condolences to those surviving u. k u s. u on violence here in the middle east. we'll be back from or on washington's wall with the brand new episode on monday joined by the sea ice for mackenzie territory, for dr. michael. sure. until end keeping. josh, why will i social media results entity in your country and i to our channel going on. we want to keep you hon. com to watching you and all that besides have going on the ground. see monday, the

dig. it will have chevy image shows the patient unix. but then you put the linguist throwing in the category as appreciate it. but if you're doing your task, but then you would just give them a long shot of the beloved spelling. so that should probably do some stuff that way . you know, you have them step this just a little bit slow. so no control the console phone is a visual of the yeah, i do have to make sure that people come the middle of it so frustrated with as much . it's gonna get that praise. i show you a different level may assist you my when you do it and gets insurance and which the technology you can throw in at the let's just sponsor, excuse me, just go out. i don't like for you to go where you need the course to just go in and put in the see it is done with this. i think 0, this was was self employed. so sort of all the

explosions, shake fe roots have this ro continues. is bowman campaign on ground invasion of love, and then also the, despite the new focus on the north, in front of the idea of full, so launches more deadly attacks on both casa, on the west bank. we report from the funeral of an employer of somebody including 2 children, killed in one and talked to stripe with the website and they started flying off. i almost died from the fear i started cooling out for my daughters, the goals inside the room. but there was no sound.