the concentration camps stuff are osis, grill de boer, it's fruit. the patriots were scattered. however, the british experience the strength of the malay resistance to the full extent, the british army losses in the way over the largest since the end of world war 2. in 1957, the british empire was forced to recognize malay and independence. the resilience of them a late people put an end to the history of british colonialism in south east asia. the hello and welcome to worlds. a part of the school has witnessed a long procession of black swans flying in all directions, but now there are circling the middle east, a series of terrorist attacks and masses missile exchanges between israel and its

share adversaries has once again brought the situation to the brink of original conflict, seemingly catching washington of a guard or unable to respond effectively. where does these percolation of a new war leave the old ones? to discuss that i'm now joined by david perkins, faithful edition and leader of the heritage party to start cursing. that's great to see you this morning. thank you very much for your time. nice. thanks. it's really good to join you as well. now, the middle east has been a source of instability or very turbulent area for quite some time. but there's been a very noticeable, very vivid escalation over the last couple of weeks. how do take and do thing is just another seasonal flare up, or is it something more serious, more consequential? you will have problems and i'm at least go back ultimately 75 years. but this current flare up started on the 7th of october with the actions of some ass one.

that was a very strange thing because they could get over the most secure border. the wells, i don't understand that myself, but then obviously since then it split up more and more. israel is retaliated completely out of proportion to what happened on the 7th of october, and now they're trying to draw in other countries. they're not just fighting against the mass in the gaza strip. they've opened the front against lebanon bombing lebanon that they bones the irrelevant wrong day. they killed the leaders of mass in the, in these are in the apartment building and in the wrong. and they boeing syria and the doing taking actions in the west bank. so this really is an escalation, a big escalation. this happened in the last couple of weeks and i think the world was horrified. a couple of weeks ago when they were all these page explosions and exploding walkie talkies, the count some his ball fight is yes, but lots of innocent women and children as well. now, israel as a, as a national,

after it's national behavior, is a, pretty much the products of the west. it wouldn't be able to be what it is. it wouldn't be able to behave as it behaves without substantial military diplomatic financial support from the west. but there is a paradox here because i think at this point of time, it's national behavior. it's asked, is it odds both with the democratic administration in the united states and perhaps more broadly with the interest of the west? is it still an asset to the west? is it still a genuine ally in the k more e r a is right? it was seen. there was no question because these realities on the side of the west against communism. and now, since the full of the building goals since the fall of communism, things have changed. and, you know, we have a decade where russia was very, very much, you know, in the warm relationship with the west in the, you know, the, the late ninety's early 2, thousands. but i think now people are changing. so,

you know, this is a long change of, uh, a few decades of course, with no longer in the cold war. so we're not, we're not fighting the total now. so now people are really questioning a lot what is riley is doing. and i think the thing that people are looking at these, that response in killing tens of thousands of women and children and gaza and a lot of people are absolutely horrified by that. even people who previously supported israel. so that questioning, well, well, what are we doing here? what is this country doing? why are we giving so much military support and political support? so a country that actually is going round, you know, and it's, it's definitely the academically, cleansing dog. some people use the word genocide, you know, it's, but the beginnings of that and that goes against all of the values and principles that we say we hold the are in the west. so let me ask you about that specifically

because it's not only about the valleys but the house about commonsense, basic commonsense and your own sense of self preservation. and what i find paradoxical about the western decision making is that the west, on the one hand, eagerly picks up battles to be a very powerful nuclear armed opponents like russia. and with them as prefers confrontation, kinetic confrontation over negotiations. but when it comes to suppose its allies like israel, the other way around it seems to be open to being used to being manipulated to be sidelined or ignored. it doesn't seem to have the god. so the act human to sort of change that dynamic, that the relational dynamic in its own favor. how do you explain that? obviously the most powerful country in the west, the kind of but the country that pretty much runs the show is the united states and the volume and administration has a lot of people who haven't joined us is ready citizenship. so you're not israel in

the united states, a pretty much wanting the same in terms of you know, where the people who are making the decisions. you know, you've got on the plane can, you've got lindsey graham, you've got victorian unit, and all of them have joint is ready citizenship. so they're very much thing 10 and support israel because you've got all these people that do are as ready citizens as well. but also, i didn't think it's a power adults because some of these people, i actually have a lot about typing these into, to russia. and this was explains by my friend gonzales leah rob show people who what she showed knows him who was killed in you, cried and he did a very good explanation of this. for example, look at victoria knew that she's a descendant of people who forced to leave and ukraine, 2 or 3 generations ago and paul drums as they possibly have some kind of self

conscious intergenerational. and i'm talking to isn't even hatred a russia because of what happened a, a long, long time ago. and you know, there are people around like that. and then some other people would go to the lengths of saying that they want raising change in russia because they, they've instigated to the call the revolution obviously. and ukraine in 2014. they tried to do a call the reputation and batteries back in 2020. the idea is they would do that in roster as well. but then in terms of the money people is riley is either it's, it's the stalking horse in the middle east because they, they want to take some of the landing dollars though you've already got people setting up property agents to sell the landing dollars that from where people have been ethnically cleanse and it's a base in order to apply military operations to bones, syria, to bomb the rock. and there's a lot of american companies in that taking the oil out of syria taking

a lot of their off. can i ask you a specifically about this relationship between the united states and israel? you said that that one of the same and i think we broadly agree that israel is ultimately a creature of the west that it wouldn't have been possible to exist for israel. the way i know it exists today without the substantial support the western powers but in the west has to operate within view and it, janet seems like like israel right now can operate within periods. even though the west doesn't particularly like it. i wonder if, in some strange way is really is giving the united states and there was more broadly a taste of what's on the policy is that it's some strange sort sort of deal political come up ends of actually being faced with the consequences of your own policies in non other than your partner or a country that you call your partner?

yeah, i mean i get to say something even more detail. you can come to the city. yeah. it's a jewish projects. obviously it is the jewish state and the people who are the main move is behind creating israel. yeah. old way. they were in the west, the with jewish people, the role stones, family, etc. who provided a lot of the money in the beginning to buy outlines to support these, right, these states and that continues today. obviously, as i said, the special help from the united states and be your and security council, or with the military supplies, etc. i mean the is really proctor, it started perhaps as a and is really initiative, but the wave survives and the way the, you know, brabs land of other nations. i mean, wouldn't be, it'd be possible without the west of other things. so no of course, no, because it is supported with a lot of money and with military support from the west, we give way from bottom billions of pounds. the israel and military support is protected specifically from the united states and is going that every single. yeah,

yeah, of course a wouldn't be able to survive without that lifeline. i think, you know, is riley is one of the top beneficiaries of aids from the united states. of course, i can speak most about the united kingdom and i think this is reflected in the us as well. is that the 2 main legacy policies and so i would call them the conservatives and labor. they both have within the policies, very, very powerful lobbying groups for israel. there is the conservative friends of his route and is the labor of friends of israel, and many, many people in the cabinet. the government of the you type today, all members of labor, friends of israel, i may receive donations from this organization, as the conservative ministers did to a large extent during their 14 years previous. the key installment coming in the i'm gonna tell you something which i, i made a video about on my youtube, a few people who've seen it. but when i 1st was elected to the london assembly,

which was 2016. i was taken to jerusalem. i wouldn't say that i'm tied to the bottom. go into their opinion or something, but i was, you know, i'm invited to a conference in jerusalem about freedom and democracy. i went to nice to all. this is great. i'm just going to go and meet some people and this is very nice. i had a visit to connect, sit on my trip. and while i was that i, we, we were all taken into a room in the back of the contest that we had have been meeting with the member of the can. i said, and i didn't know this was going to happen. but he drew out something which is called a jerusalem declaration, which is something that we were off to sign in the sort of co operative environment . and it says that, you know, you will put the interest in these riddles. this time is the only person that didn't sign it because i didn't want to sign something that was going to make the united beholden to something like that. they could,

i should. but most of the people didn't sign it and you know, part of it back. and i think what was that old about as time is going on, i realize that, you know, they were a couple of american congressmen with me on the trip. but i realize that almost everybody who becomes a congressman, i understand that's a, is expected to sign or off to sign this jerusalem declaration which made them play just personally, to support the nation of israel. they have to take a short break. let's stop for a moment, but we will be back to the discussion in a few moments they tune the

the welcome back to rows of parts with david kirsten, british, politician and leader of the heritage party. as a person, just before the break here you're, you're share this very interesting experience demonstrating how sure the israel is about exerting its influence and how little it's cares about the other countries. because um, you know, we would presume that all those british, our american politicians would have a legions to that people 1st rather than the people of israel. now i want to ask about that because the american politics has been in disarray for a couple of years. but now, particularly we saw by them is ling dock. and it happened that this precise moment is their own, chose not only to escalate in gaza,

but also to open up 2 additional friends in lebanon in iran. do you think it did it on purpose simply because it's main sponsor, it's main ally. it happens to be destructive. yeah, i think the timing is very, very interesting because you've got the president selection just coming up. president trump is likely to be re elected. but at the moment, the united states as being title, as soon as you say biden, is not knowing whether he's coming or going for a couple of years. come all the house is not the brightest bulb in the pass code's face. take it. i think many people would think the same. i'm so everyone around the wells, you know, it is able to just try to do things. and so now israel, particularly to get things done in this moment where there is chaos in the united states. and, you know, obviously this is related a little bit to what's happening in ukraine because everyone can see that is not going. how the west and leaders wanted it to go. so is road is pro,

would be looking at this and thinking well, now is the time to do something. but let's go back to 2003, and the start of the rock war. i'm sure you and a lot of people will be aware of the speech given by general wesley clark, where he talked about the united states a well, the west of getting to war with 7 countries. so there was a rock, lebanon, syria, libya to down. i think somalia, that's as i go on the one to know the last guy was there as well. yeah. yeah. they were gonna end up with the wrong. and that was that going to be the final country that they were gonna get. so will with and cause instability in. and then, you know, basically plug them to the assets and put in a little puppet. so we'll know the, we have a great opportunity to see how it all played out. and i think it demonstrates that the main problem with western decision making is well, to put in the diplomatically the shortage of strategic for side. because all those

wars, 2 words in iraq, health, strength and iran, ultimately the meddling in syria empowered radical islam is groups like ice is unlocked to a huge migrant wave into western europe if either a worse or habits way in lebanon in iran, if it succeeded in toppling the range in government, or how do you think it's likely to influence decision not only in the region, but also let's say in our hemisphere because the implications would be larger than the middle east. the point of the was the being waged by the people in the, the state is not to the top of the regime and then put in a raise even rebuild the country. they say that's what what they want to do. but the point seems to be the coolest chaos. and the only in those countries, they're also causing care is that the care says reaching that shores as well. i mean, it's definitely me reaching west in your a maybe a, in

a couple of years. it's really range of the u. k. shores as well. what is already reaching the you guys? what was that? how do you know we, we have a huge number of the military aids may oh, my friends coming across the channel illegally and now we've got a $150000.00 to run the asylum system, the mainly you about this asylum seekers, but they come from these countries mostly on man, middle women and children, which is means, which is why they think they genuine refugees as such, but they coming in to the u. k. and then there's tales in the u. k as well with an increase in crime is adding to the housing crisis. there's millions of pounds being spent on these people who have come into the u. k. and this is all a result of the was which should be waged over the last 20 years. i mean, absolutely, i agree with you and it's, it's often the insane to me that the worst one, perhaps, for the european situation is the water, libya, because i get that see actually all that he's,

he's obviously not popular with the powers that be in the west he was very good because he have bought the tide of migrants. he wants to come from africa since he's gone. and that was, you know, 12 years ago now there's been a lot of migrant started through libya and then that obviously was added to with the was in syria and, and the rock. and now you've got new migrant booths, starting to take place from lebanon. and if we get to will with the on, i say the only thing that is to be the worst possible thing that anyone in the west could try to do. but if there is some kind of a ministry of taco new, wrong, massive bombing the wrong people are losing their houses and they become a homeless. what a lot of them are, just going to slide into europe as well. you know, i don't blame them, but that's going to be, you know, very bad for a consonant which really isn't coping very well with the millions of migrants that we already have because of the was that have been waged by the governments of all nations. now perhaps we would the both agree that the west is not very good at the

ending it's worse responsibly. it tends to sort of shifted attention to another conflict on the mean being so wishful thinking on my part. but thinking about the conflict in your brain, i have a slight hold of, uh, the west uh, seeing the intensity in the middle east. um, also experiencing its own fatigue around the, the premium conflict, the progression. do you think it's possible that somehow it's thinking about the ukrainian situation may shift towards perhaps in being distracted letting your crane and rush or figure it out between themselves. and i hope so. and i think some people are starting to realize that, for example, schultz and john seller of, of germany is said he's not going to provide his told us crews and his styles to ukraine, which is a good state. and i mean, that's a good sign in the way, i mean, they've been up to now being quite belligerent, but they,

they've not doing that. and hopefully people are starting to see sense you even, you're even getting pieces written in some of the mainstream media outlets saying, but russell is doing very well now that balancing an increasing pace and the dung bass of the eastern ukraine. they've changed the tactics and this is putting you crazy at all. me eat the on the box the and indeed the friends in the don't box is collapsing, and, uh, the cost incursion didn't go as they wanted to, you know, a couple of months ago when the ukranian forces went into the coast region, all the mainstream media and politicians with sharing that on, i mean, upholding late because of the loss of life that, that they were doing that. but now that housing, what, how they thoughts and moving, pushed back and, and everything that the ukrainian forces present lensky regime under the patronage of the west. to try to do isn't working in it and people can see that. so i think people are disgusted with what's going on with the sending huge amounts of money to

the lensky in terms of weapons to kill russians when actually we're taking money away from people that have been one of the big things in the you tell you that i never about domestically is that the common labor government have taken one and a half 1000000000 pounds away from pension. is we something called the wind to fuel allowance, and that is just gives them a little bit of money to see them through the winter to heat their homes. but the taking that away giving twice as much zalinski and as long as goes on the moon, people have disgusted with the billions and billions of pounds, your eyes and dollars which are being sent to ukraine. well, public service is in health. so people here being costs into child. okay, well mr. gordon, i hope that people are not just disgusted, but also bring their discuss. do they pull additions so that the politicians can change the course? now you mentioned the german literature being somewhat of restraint in terms of sending long range missiles to russia and allowing them to be used against the

russian territory. but the discussion is ongoing and british media. and the brits seem to be very belligerent when it comes to any kind of attacks against russia, or where do you see going, do you think it's just the sort of the public discussion or if may go in into an actual escalation, we have in the, in the u. k is what i call it a uni party. we. we've called the conservatives and we call the lady, but they say they have rights and expedited, right? exactly, identical in terms of policy. so what we've got now is salma, but he's basically a continuation of johnson. and the soon died kid who is a continuation of my and camera on, and brown and black before them. they're all with united by city getting in the same direction, stalling. there is absolutely the gun hope of sending weapons to ukraine for them to buy a deep into the russian territory. that's what he wants. that's what he's going

forward. he even went over to the united states to ask permission most simply and incredibly bite and said no, he didn't get permission for this to happen at the time. so i mean that, that came out of nowhere, even though it's a good thing because it's actually the wrong thing to do. it would be a disastrous and reckless escalation of the conflict is that with the huffman but i would make a distinction between the politicians and the people because the people increasingly are against this, they're against escalating? well, we can see now the overall 1000000 ukrainians have died. you know, including lots of young men who are being press gang going to the front line. you don't even on to have anything to do with fighting. and, and this again, is really pressing the consciences of the people in the west and who are different to the governments who seem to be on another level of wanting to escalate the board intentions because they still invested in taking back one of the land and ukraine.

because there's a lot of money behind it, they want to get in take control of the mines in the minerals. in fact, this even being said, and some of the mainstream media reports, there's 4 trillion or 10 trillion dollars worth of assets and minerals in the don't boss on black clock and all the west and multinational companies and, and spends one of those assets in order to be able to take money out of ukraine. that's where they're concerned with. they're not concerned with people. they're not concerned with russians and ukrainians together. you know, young man, uh, killing each other for the people and the powers that be who are in charge and who are making the money. and that is disgusting to a lot of people forgive me for saying that. but i thing if you're, if you're leaving the in, in the country that you're doing democratic, you do bear some responsibility for the accidents of your, of your leaders. and that applies both to me as a russian and i, i seem to british people when they consider the policies of your nation because,

you know, saw some people, there are some politicians there on, not just the threatening of, i mean they're, they're contributing to the, as he said to the killing of many, many thousands of our soldiers and you know, our ukrainian neighbors. now, there's been some recent changes in russia's military doctrine with president put in announcing the and of the so called an nuclear immunity of the non nuclear states. and nuclear states will no longer be a sort of in, during this pretense of innocence. when they send weapons to the ukranian slunk line and pretend that they are not involved in conflict. if those weapons i used against russia surgery rusher with change the right to retaliate directly and i assume a freshman does so it may affect, you know, civilians in the west as well. do you think a proposition like that is likely to sort of uh, bring some sobriety to the way in the british public. the british leadership is

approaching this issue? well, i hope so, but you know, the president putin has been warning about not escalating for, but, and since the beginning of the conflicts, and this is something that the west didn't needs to get involved in the, the most shameful thing that the west has done was done by the board as johnson in april 2022. when there was a peace deal agreed between president putin and zalinski, and jonathan went to the landscape with other people and persuaded him not to sign it and to carry on fighting. todd is absolutely the upholding of the stain on, on nation and because of that, hundreds of thousands of more people have died. but do you know what, what president clinton is saying now is, don't fire cruise missiles into russia, you know, which is absolutely reasonable. because in the west, the lead is always want to say, one of the war with russia went on to vote with russia, but then they do everything to act in the amount of that they are a war with the bad. they're supplying weapons and expertise on the satellite

imagery. i mean, what type uh, what else do you need to provide? i mean, other than the actual soldiers, but the funding, the servicing of this war continues with the western help. yeah, of course. i mean, you know, you can make the old so the philosophical argument, you know, if you give someone a gun and they shoot to someone and kills someone who's responsible, the person who ex, shot the gun on this new guy. but she to the guy and you know, they both responsible and this is the situation. the west is in the development of what we're doing and you know, back to your point about the west and the people bearing some responsibility for the governments. they elect. well, yes, i mean, and that's why i've, you know, the political party and the heritage policy, which is saying, among many obvious things that were opposed to more we shouldn't be getting involved in the policy conflicts around the world. except to try to deescalate things and speed pace and get people to stop fighting and stop killing each other.

the so i stood candidates in the recent general election. unfortunately, you know, we didn't have enough people wanting to come and stand for us to stand everywhere and vote for us. well, um mr. kirsten, we have to leave it there, but thank you very much for being with us today. okay, and thank you for watching hope to hear again on wells the part the the, the

which i thought that was the loading of students, the sluggish guns, carolina lectured. they've always been telling you, getting this, the post is all the 50 is that i, that's a get a minute come. other students need, which is easy to saw on the screen. so of course, to ensure material which is the monument stumbling. i didn't like the law, but the idea is based on weight. so screw, well in the middle of something in the we did present it to not the results between you and the 2 would you didn't know for sure. and i'm

comfortable which way which insidiously. similarly, process, the breaking news, one person is kill down at least 10 more wounded in a terrorist attack in southern israel, coming on the eve of the appropriate 7th, the other 1st rate. and then may be ongoing war in gals of that. but on the 2nd deadly, not shooting in israel, but the attacks over night in one way or the other are designed in a way to provide psychological pressure. there's another explosion, the a root suburbs i gain come under heavy fire. those the latest wave of is really are a strikes targets the neighboring come on tuesday around.