was to discuss that i'm now joined by david perkins, page politician. i believe they're on the heritage party. the said cursing. that's great to see you this morning. thank you very much for your time. nice. thanks. it's really good to join you as well. now, the middle east has been a source of instability or very turbulent area for quite some time, but there's been a very noticeable, very vivid escalation over the last couple of weeks. how do take and do thing is just another seasonal flare up, or is it something more serious, more consequential? you will have problems and i'm at least go back ultimately 75 years. but this current flare up started on the 7th of october with the actions of the mass, the one that was a very strange thing, because they could get over the most secure border the well, i don't understand that myself, but then obviously since then it split up more and more, israel is retaliated completely out of proportion to what happened on the 7th of

october, and now they're trying to draw in other countries. they're not just fighting against a mass in the gaza strip. they've opened the front of games, lebanon bombing, lebanon, the they bones the irrelevant wrong day. they killed the leaders of mass in the, in these are in the apartment building and in iran, and they, boeing syria, and they're doing taking actions in the west bank. so this really is an escalation, a big escalation. this happened in the last couple of weeks and doing what i think the world was horrified. a couple of weeks ago when they were all of these page explosions and exploding walkie talkies, the count, some has bought a fight as yes, but lots of in assume to women and children as well. now, israel as a, as a national, after it's national behavior, is a, pretty much the products of the west. it wouldn't be able to be what it is. it wouldn't be able to behave as it behaves without substantial military diplomatic

financial support from the west. but there is a paradox here because i think at this point of time, it's national behavior. it's ap, is it odds? both with the democratic administration in the united states and perhaps more broadly with the interest of the west. is it still an asset to the west? is it still a genuine ally in the k more e r a is right. it was the there was no question because these violet is on the side of the west. again, it's colleen is of a now since the full of the building bowl, since the fall of communism, things have changed. and you know, we had a decade where rush, it was very, very much, you know, we warm relationship with the west in the, you know, the late ninety's early 2 thousands. but i think now people are changing. so, you know, this is a long change of, uh, a few decades of course, with no longer in the cold war. so we're not, we're not fighting the total now. so now people are really questioning a lot what is riley is doing. and i think the thing that people are looking at is

that response in killing tens of thousands of women and children in gaza. and a lot of people are absolutely horrified by that. even people who previously supported israel. so that questioning, well, well, what are we doing here? what, what is this country doing? why are we giving so much military support and political support? so a country that actually is going round, you know, and it's, it's definitely the legally cleansing dog. some people use the word genocide, you know, it's, but the beginnings of that and that goes against all of the values and principles that we say we hold the are in the west. so let me ask you about that specifically because it's not only about the valleys but the house about commonsense, basic commonsense and your own sense of self preservation. and what i find paradoxical about the western decision making is that the west, on the one hand, eagerly picks up battles to be a very powerful nuclear armed opponents like russia. and with them as prefers

confrontation, kinetic confrontation over negotiations. but when it comes to suppose it allies like israel, the other way around it seems to be open to being used to being manipulated, to being sidelined or ignored. it doesn't seem to have the god, so they act human to sort of change that dynamic, that the relational dynamic in its own favor. how do you explain that? obviously the most powerful country in the west, the kind of but the country that pretty much around the show is the united states and the volume and administration has a lot of people who have joined us is ready citizenship. so you're not israel in the united states, a pretty much want him to same in terms of, you know, where the people who are making the decisions. you know, you've got on the plane can, you've got lindsey graham, you've got victoria new and all of them. i've joint is riley citizenship, so they're very much thing 10 and support israel because you've got all these

people that do are as ready citizens as well. but also, the other thing is the power adults, because some of these people actually have a lot about typing these into, to russia. and this was explains by my friend gonzales leah rob show people who what she showed knows him who was killed in you, cried and he did a very good explanation of this. for example, look up a tory, a knew that she's a descendant of people who uh, uh, forced to leave and ukraine, 2 or 3 generations ago and pulled drums that. and they possibly have some kind of self conscious intergenerational. i'm talking to isn't even hatred a russia because of what happened a, a long, long time ago. and you know, there are people around like that. and then some other people go to the lengths of saying that they want raising change in russia because they,

they've instigated the color revolution, obviously, and ukraine in the 2014, they tried to do a color reputation and batteries back in 2020. the idea is they would do that in russia as well. but then in terms of the money people is riley is either it's, it's the stalking horse in the middle east because they, they want to take some of the landing dollars though you've already got people setting up property agents to sell the landing dollars that from where people have been ethnically cleanse and it's based in order to apply military operations to bomb syria to bomb the rock. and there's a lot of american companies in that taking the oil out of syria taking a lot of their off. can i ask you a specifically about this relationship between the united states and israel? you said that that one of the same and i think we broadly agree that israel is ultimately a creature of the west that it wouldn't have been possible to exist for israel. the

way i know it exists today without the substantial support the western powers, but the west has to operate within viewing it. janet seems like like israel right now, can operate within period to even though the west doesn't particularly like it. i wonder if, in some strange way is really is giving the united states and there was more broadly a taste of what's on the policy is that it's some strange sort sort of deal political come up ends of actually being faced with the consequences of your own policies in non other than your partner or a country that you call your partner? yeah, i mean i get to say something even more detail. you can come to the city. yeah. it's a jewish projects. obviously it is the jewish state and the people who are the main move is behind creating israel. yeah, old way. they were in the west, the with jewish people, the rest of the family, etc. who provided a lot of the money in the beginning to buy outlines to support these, right,

these states and that continues today. obviously, as i said, the special help from the united states and be your and security council, or with the military supplies, etc. i mean, b is really proctor, it started perhaps as a and is really initiative, but the way of survives and the way the, you know, brabs land of other nations. i mean, wouldn't be, it'd be possible without the west of other things. so no of course, no, because it is supported with a lot of money and with military support from the west, we give way from bottom billions of pounds. the israel and ministry support is protected specifically from the united states and is going that every single. yeah, yeah, of course a wouldn't be able to survive without that lifestyle. i don't think, you know, is riley is one of the top beneficiaries is aids from the united states. of course, i can speak most about the united kingdom and i think this is reflected in the us as well. is that the 2 main legacy policies and so i would call them the

conservatives and labor. they both have within the parties, very, very powerful lobbying groups for israel. there is the conservative friends of his route and is the labor of friends of israel, and many, many people in the cabinet. the government of the you type today, all members of labor, friends of israel, i may receive donations from this organization, as the conservative ministers did to a large extent during their 14 years previous. the key installment coming in the i'm gonna tell you something which i, i made a video about on my youtube, a few people have seen it, but when i 1st was elected to the london assembly, which was 2016, i was taken to jerusalem. i wouldn't say that i'm tied to it and i wasn't good bundle them through that rebellion or something. but i was, you know, i'm invited to a conference in jerusalem about freedom and democracy. i went to nice to all. this

is great. i'm just going to go and meet some people and this is very nice. i had a visit to because that sits on my trip. and while i was there, i, we, we were all taken into a room in the back of the contest that we had a men meeting with the member of the can. i said, and i didn't know this was going to happen. but he drew out something which is called a jerusalem declaration, which is something that we were off to sign in, the sort of co operative environment. and it says that, you know, you will put the interest that means right this time is the only person that didn't sign it because i didn't want to sign something that was going to make the united beholden to something like that. they could, i should. but most of the people didn't sign it and you know, part of it back. and i think what was that old about as time is going on, i realize that, you know, they were a couple of american congressmen with me on the trip. but i realize that almost everybody who becomes a congressman are saying it's a,

is expected to sign or all the saw in this jerusalem declaration, which made them play just personally to support the nation of israel. or you have to take a short break. let's stop for a moment, but we will be back to the discussion in a few moments they tune the same wrong. just don't have to shape house because the engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves will depart, we choose to look for common ground, the the

the welcome back to all the parts with david person, british, politician and leader of the heritage party. as a person just before the break you're, you're, you're sure this very interesting experience demonstrating how sure the israel is about exerting its influence. and how little if cares about the other countries. because um, you know, we would presume that all those british, our american politicians would have a legions to that people 1st rather than the people of israel. now i want to ask about that because the american politics has been in disarray for a couple of years. but now, particularly we saw by them is ling dock. and it happened that this precise moment

is there old, chose not only to escalate in gaza, but also to open up 2 additional friends in love and on, in iran. do you think it did it on purpose simply because it's main sponsor, it's main ally. it happens to be destructive. yeah, i think the timing is very, very interesting because you've got the president selection just coming up. president trump is likely to be re elected. but at the moment, the united states being title some, as you say, biden is not knowing whether he's coming to going for a couple of years. tomorrow, the house is not the brightest bulb in the package. i take it, i think many people with thing to say, i'm so everyone around the world, you know, it is able to just try to do things and act so now israel, particularly to get things done in this moment where there is chaos in the united states. and, you know, obviously this is related a little bit to what's happening in ukraine because everyone can see that is not going how the west and leaders wanted it to go. so it's route is probably be

looking at this and thinking, well, now it's time to do something um, but let's go back to 2003 and the start of the wrong for i'm sure you and a lot of people will be aware of the speech given by general ways of the clock, what he told us about the united states a well, the west of getting to war with 7 countries. so there was a rock, lebanon, syria, libby, a sudan, i think somalia, that's as i go on, the one to the guy was there as well. yeah. yeah. they were gonna end up with the wrong. and that was the going to be the final country today. we're going to get so will, with i'm cause instability in and then you know, basically plugged into the assets and put in a little puppet. so we'll know the, we have a great opportunity to see how it all played out. and i think it demonstrates that the main problem with western decision making is well to put in the diplomatically

the shortage of strategic for side. because all those wars, 2 words in iraq health strength and iran ultimately be meddling in syria empowered, radical, as long as groups like ice is unlocked to a huge migrant wave into western europe. if either a worse or habits, way in lab and on, in iran, if it succeeded to in toppling the range in government. and how do you think it's likely to influence decision not only in the region, but also let's say in our hemisphere, because the implications would be larger than the middle east. when will the point of the was the being waged by the people in the didn't state is not to the top of the regime and then put in a raise the human rebuild the country. they say that's what what they want to do. but the point seems to be, to cause chaos. and the only in those countries, they are also causing cares about the care. so is reaching their source as well. i

mean, it's definitely me reaching west in your a maybe a, in a couple of years at the real range of the u. k. shores as well. what was already reaching the you guys, what was the, how do you know we, we have a, a huge number of the military aids may have my friends coming across the channel illegally. and now we've got a 150000 who were in the asylum system, the mainly you about this asylum seekers. but they come from these countries mostly on mann middle women and children, which is means which is why they think they genuine refugees as such. but they coming in to the u. k. and then there's tie else in the u. k as well with an increase in crime is adding to the housing crisis. there's millions of pounds being spent on these people who have come into the u. k. and this is all a result of the was which should be waged over the last 20 years. i mean, absolutely, i agree with you. and it's, it's up to me in saying to me that the worst one, perhaps, for the european situation is the water, libya because i get that see actually all that he's,

he's obviously not popular with the powers that be in the west. he was very good because he held back the tide of migrants he wants to come from africa since he's gone. and that was, you know, 12 years ago now there's been a lot of migrant started through libya and then that obviously was added to with the was in syria and, and the rock. and now you've got new migrant boots starting to take place from lebanon. and if we get to will with the and i say the only thing that is to be the worst possible thing that anyone in the west could try to do. but if there is some kind of a ministry, a taco new, wrong, massive bombing of the wrong people are losing their houses and they become a homeless. what a lot of them are just going to flood into europe as well. you know, i don't blame them, but that's going to be, you know, very bad for a consonant which really isn't coping very well with the millions of migrants that we already have because of the was that have been waged by the governments of all

nations. uh huh. now, perhaps we would the both agree, but the west is not very good at the ending. it's more responsibly. it tends to sort of shifted attention to another conflict. and maybe it's a wishful thinking on my part. but uh, thinking about the conflict in your brain. i have a slight hold of uh, the west uh, seeing the intensity in the middle east. um also experiencing its own fatigue around the, the premium conflict that progression. do you think it's possible that somehow it's thinking about the ukranian situation may shift towards the perhaps in being distracted loving ukraine and russia? figure it out between themselves. and i hope so. and i think some people are starting to realize that, for example, schultz and john seller of, of germany is said he's not going to provide. he's told us crews and his styles to ukraine, which is a good state. and i mean, that's a good sign in the way, i mean,

they've been up to now being quite belligerent, but they, they've not doing that. and hopefully people are starting to see sense you even, you're even getting pieces written in some of the mainstream media outlets saying, but russell is doing very well now that balancing an increasing pace and the don't bass the eastern ukraine, they've changed the tactics. and this is putting you crazy at all. me eat the on the box and indeed the friends in the don't box is collapsing. and uh, the cost incursion didn't go as they wanted. it's, you know, a couple of months ago when the ukranian forces went into the coast region, all the mainstream media and politicians with sharing that on, i mean, upholding late because of the loss of life that, that they were doing that. but now that hasn't worked how they thought to me being pushed back and, and everything that the ukrainian forces present lensky regime under the patronage of the west of tried to do isn't working in it. and people can see that it's so i

think people are disgusted with what's going on with the sending huge amounts of money to valencia in terms of weapons to cable russians. when actually we're taking money away from people that have been one of the big things in the you tell you that i know about domestically is that the car in labor government have taken one and a half 1000000000 pounds away from pension. is we something called the wind to fuel allowance, and that is just gives them a little bit of money to save them for the winter to heat the homes. but the taking the other way of giving twice as much zalinski and i belong to this goes on, the more people are disgusted with the billions and billions of pounds, your eyes and dollars which are being sent to ukraine. what public services is in health. so people here being caused them to child. ok, well mr. gardner, i hope that people are not just disgusted, but also bring their discuss, do they pull edition so that the politicians can change that course. now you mentioned the german literature being somewhat of restraint in terms of sending

long range missiles to russia and allowing them to be used against the russian territory. but the discussion is ongoing and british media. and the brits seem to be very belligerent when it comes to any kind of attacks against a restaurant or where do you see it going? do you think it's just the sort of the public discussion or if may go in into an actual escalation? we have in the, in the u. k. is, is what i call it a uni party. we, we've called the conservatives and we got the label. they say their rights and expedited, right? exactly, identical in terms of policy. so what we've got now is salma, but he's basically a continuation of johnson. and the soon died kid who is a continuation of my and camera on, and brown and black before them. they're all of you know that by city dying in the same direction. stallnicher is actually the gun ho for sending weapons to ukraine for them to buy a deep into the russian territory. that's what he wants. that's what he's going

forward. even going over to the united states, the was commission must sickly and incredibly bite and said no, he didn't get permission for this to happen at the time. so i mean that, that came out of nowhere, even though it's a good thing because it's actually the wrong thing to do. it would be a disastrous and reckless escalation of the conflict. is that what's happened? but i would make a distinction between the politicians and the people because the people increasingly are getting space they're against escalating. well we can see now the overall for 1000000 ukrainians have died. you know, including lots of young man who are being press gang going to the front line. you don't even on to have anything to do with fighting. and, and this again, is really pushing the consciences of the people in the west and who are different to the governments who seem to be on another level of wanting to escalate the board intentions because they still invest in,

in taking back one of the land and ukraine because there's a lot of money behind it. they want to get in take control of the mines in the minerals. in fact, this even being said, and some of the main stream media reports, there's 4 trillion or 10 trillion dollars worth of assets and minerals in the don't boss on black rock and other western multinational companies and, and spends one of those assets in order to be able to take money out of ukraine. that's where they're concerned with. they're not concerned with people. they're not concerned with russians and ukrainians together. you know, young man, uh, killing each other for the people in the powers that be who are in charge and who are making the money. and that is disgusting to a lot of people forgive me for saying that. but i thing if you're, if you're leaving the in, in the country that you're doing democratic, you do bear some responsibility for the accidents of your, of your leaders. and that applies both to me as a russian. and i assume to british people when they consider the policies of your

nation because, you know, saw some people, there are some politicians there on, not just the threatening of, i mean they're, they're contributing to the, as you set to the killing of many, many thousands of our soldiers and, you know, our ukranian neighbors. now, there's been some recent changes in russia's military doctrine with president put in announcing the and of the so called an nuclear immunity of the non nuclear states. and nuclear states will no longer be a sort of in, during this pretense of innocence. when they send weapons to the ukranian slunk line and pretend that they are not involved in conflict. if those weapons are used against russia surgery rusher with change the right to retaliate directly and i assume a freshman does, so it may affect, you know, civilians in the west as well. do you think a proposition like that is likely to sort of uh, bring some sobriety to the way in the british public. the british leadership is

approaching this issue? well, i hope so, but you know, the president putin has been warning about not escalating for, but since the beginning of the conflicts, and this is something that the west didn't needs to get involved in the, the most shameful thing that the west has done was done by the board, as johnson in april 2022, when there was a peace deal agreed between president putin and zalinski, and johnson went to the landscape with other people and persuaded him not to sign it and to carry on financing. todd is absolutely the upholding of the stain on nation and because of that, hundreds of thousands of more people have died. but you know what, what president police in is saying now is, don't fire cruise missiles into russia, you know, which is absolutely reasonable. because in the west, the lead is always going to say one of the war with russia went on to vote with russia, but then they do everything to act in the amount of that they are

a war with the bad. they're supplying weapons and expertise and satellite imagery, i mean, what happens, what else do you need to provide? i mean, other than the actual soldiers, but the funding, the b service thing of this war continues with the western help. yeah, of course. i mean, you know, you can make the old so the philosophical argument, you know, if you give someone a gun and they shoot to someone and kills someone who's responsible, the person who has shot the gun on this new guy. but she to the guy and you know, they both responsible and, and this is the situation. the west is in the development of what we're doing. and you know, back to your point about the west and the people bearing some responsibility for the governments. they elect, well, yes, i mean, and that's why i've, you know, the political party of the heritage policy, which is saying, among many obvious things that we're opposed to more, we shouldn't be getting involved in the policy conflicts around the world. except to try to deescalate things and speak peace and get people to stop fighting and

stop killing each other. the so i stood candidates in the recent general election. unfortunately, you know, we didn't have enough people wanting to come and stand for us to stand everywhere in both for us. well, mr. kirsten, we have to leave it there, but thank you very much for being with us today. okay, thank you for watching hope this erin. young and well as a part of the the if you think about russia, what does your mind picture the

landscapes open up before your eyes? the last one, just imagine the veto. scott starts the journey, the, the you ready to come along the

which i thought the worst i'm opening is just that. i'm still a little. the sluggish north carolina mutual life. i was going to look. you agree, miss tyler? the post is on the at the is that i, that's a give them mind you come other spencer i need, which is easy to so on the screen. so as i said, just want me to know which is the time when i didn't like to lock the door, is elizabeth elizabeth, oregon. mitchell screw. well, in the middle of something in the we did present to not meet the results between you and make to bundle. would you do have another solution for

children? i'm comfortable, which, which, which insidiously suit him. they process the way everybody. welcome back to moscow and welcome back to the most go mules. i'm shay, bowes, and just like all the greats in history on in the current day. and i'm part of a team. you've got lab robin proof, you've got sleepy joe and kamala, you got the zalinski and schools anyway.