the intel has responded that it values the safety and the quality of its products and will engage with authorities if necessary. long when executive dina brendan university, strong young institute for financial studies, told us that you were spying on china is nothing new to you as a spying or china is an open secret defeat is property place, recruiting as the bicycle speak chinese and the many. yeah. the security part to also show that the china is one of the country most severely affected by the site. but attacks and intelligence and easy to the competition between china and a usa. it's not only in media tree economy training, but economic gender financial respect, but also being in pageants and despite path and that china no longer trots that us as trying to data in the past. but as peyton, necessarily a nation knows acuity, precocious. so i believe that to china and he's by policy on technology security,

he's use, we'll continue. china has no intention of a political allies in the commercial, easiest between china and the got it takes. we hold the more and more forwarding company, recruit the china. but then directly release them off networks of puberty and the information of supervision will not be relaxed. and any of us really piece off, threatening national security must be ruled out by one by want to stay with us right here on our to international up next on cross top peter lavelle and his guests discussed the end of one era and the beginning of another as bricks, fills the void left by the decline of the west and its global institutions. the the,

[000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to cross stock were all things are considered on peter level. one era is coming to an end and another one is coming in to be as the west and it's global institutions decline, bricks is position to fill the void. the west is forever in search of enemies. well, breaks promotes trade and development, essentially a win win approach. the cross section bricks i'm joined by my guess one go on in beijing. he is a journalist and tv host at c dtn under the china media group, also in beach. and we have on our center, he is a senior fellow at the ty, hey,

institute as well as the chairman of asia narratives. and in new delhi we cross the policy sharma. she is managing editor of 1st post and network 18. all right, cross talk roads and the fact that means you can jump any time you want and i would just appreciate with due respect to the gentleman on the panel, i am a very conservative man, so i will go to ladies. first we will go to new delhi of healthy i think it's very interesting. is that in 2001 at golden sacks, a, an investment uh firm. they came up with the acronym brakes and it was basically a vehicle to invest or plunder. whatever word you want into the developing world, and now we have the 16 summit breaks in cars on is quite amazing. and the idea that was born in the west has been taken over and developed by the global south. i think that's a very interesting chronology. go ahead, as it is indeed on the bus and will find the town about. and he has said that i don't see the point of this group anymore. a boss from the fact that the us is not

a, it's so the rest is watching what the ricks is doing. and the bricks have test a, the, the number of members as soon as you know, and this is the guy that, that people seen being talked about and discussed. the brakes last smell consist of standing modern economies representing more than 45 percent of the new population that nearly 27 percent of the was gdp. so the potential is immense. and having said that, the bricks needs to do a lot of work. the stroke of the, the invitation to a stroke of getting more members in the stroke of building an alternative border. so a very ambitious agenda that the rich countries have set for themselves of the hope that they won't be get more baffling, more effective. and they are able to solve the problems that the rest and the rest of the lead order has not been able to solve it. while, while i'm in beijing, i mean a lot of whatever cut it, but little coverage it gets in the west. it is, this is a counter block of russia, china block, india block against the west. that is

a mis characterization of bricks. as matter of fact, it's just the opposite. it doesn't look for a confrontation like the west does. the west is hyper aggressive right now, and bricks is a breath of fresh air saying no trade in development. and alternative institutions that are not controlled by the west is the way forward. i think that's very a very simple message. that's why i think bricks will eventually work. go ahead and visioning a. yes, i mean, breaks is not western, but breaks is not anti west. exactly. meaning it's too much attention is focusing or rather speculating on what brakes might be against. it's time that people talked about what brakes is actually for it is for development is for piece and a 6 for making people to people, bonding and connections. i mean, if you look at a new development bank, for example, formerly known as the break spike over the spend,

the past 10 years has granted some $35000000000.00 worth of loans to the global south. but um, you know, financing some 105 projects, so we're talking about roads, bridges, airports, and railways, and also agriculture. you know, i was visiting brazil last year and for example, we were pleasantly surprised by the chinese loan, pink seed technology. no. is it no ping technology that has help impersonating corn to double and triple there? yeah. what's with the, in a given piece of land that the chinese technology is accounting for over 60 percent of the presenting course. market share. stuff like that is about development is about making people's lives better. so i think there has been a whole lot of speculation and mischaracterized ation or whatever level of coverage that is granted to the brakes. like you said, that kind of green more pete or the west needs anatomy. the western military industrial complex needs and ending me. i lived in the dependent on the area for some 8 years as the washington correspondent. and there's has been

a whole lot of corruption within the military industrial complex. so against the wishes and warnings of dwight eisenhower lacey us leader. the big, the complex has ever been expanding, so is to be, are paying, so they have been expanding their ne, til under the guidance of the us and look what happened now that's what happened. now. i know that basically, you know, one of the interesting things is that the, the west likes to peddle a rules base order, but the rule space order only benefits the few at the expense of the many. and it seems to me that the bricks proposition is just the reverse. go ahead. well, you know very well that the united states has an empire. we've only been a piece for 231 of 248 years. we solve our problems by taking things from other people. any challenges viewed as a threat and will be met with excess idle and warranted a response of it is just part of our nature because this is where we are in history . the question is,

will we ever transition to civilization when we start thinking about managing the things that we have like our poverty, the fact that we have so many, 10 point one percent poverty, 30 percent of our people can rebuild it above the 3rd grade level. there are so many things wrong with the united states, but we don't pay attention to them. we try to look outside for enemies to blame for whatever is going wrong with in our country. you know, put in the policy, the, one of the, the, and you've already mentioned in your 1st dancers about institutions. and, you know, again, when i talk about brakes with people in the west, again, they're saying is, is, is this a military block is, is confrontational. and i've already told a man, i've always tried to explain that imagine a world beyond the west, not against the west, but beyond it. you know, financial institutions, de dollarization and you know, i, i'm always the, the, i'm countered by quote,

the dollar is a safe, a currency. and i said, well, if you're a foreign country and you have dollars or a company, you can face sanctions. and i think this is what's given the, the breaks the impetus because, i mean, if they, they still venezuelan of gold, they still russian assets. they can steal your assets to. i mean, if, if this isn't a call for greater unity and breaks, i can think of a better one. go ahead and new delhi the right to. oh, in fact, i think that's something that the nation president fulton also raised the bridge to do the dollar lies to, to challenge the huge many of the rest and a banking system. and we've seen what happened with sift which was supposed to be a nonpartisan group, but, but it was a recognized against a construction brand so, so that really is a challenge. but you must also be mindful of the fact that the us dollars to accounts for almost 60 percent of products as of the world over and why we talked about the dollar division. and this,

this thom has been used and discussed at length for years now. uh, the, the, the program has been limited because there are very many challenges even within the brick. so i think the biggest challenge for the bricks as a group is to ensure that all the members are on the same page, that we are able to focus consensus on basic issues of union time industry talked about bringing in the u. b. i as, as an alternative, and that is something that can be used, but then again, a lot of questions to need to be honest. that's why i think the vivian moving in the right direction. that other lot also of friends that still needs to be figured out and what they are going to do, how much technology are they going to share and what sort of trust most importantly, breaks members can ensure amongst each other to be able to, to create a platform that was all of us would benefit from now. uh well, yeah and, and basically i think one of the biggest problems for me, when you and i, when i think about bricks developing is that i'm most countries in the world

because of being from the information infrastructure they learned about other countries. brick increase, learned about other bricks countries through western media games like reuters and things like that. this is a kind of information infrastructure that i think is really, really pressing right now, because i don't want to learn about india through american media. i mean, you're exactly right. to be honest with you. i was a big fan of our indian friends the projects in the i. i went on youtube and watches her show often. uh, so it is with yours. uh, the cross dot com, but i think we need yes, content medians of understanding. uh, by that, i mean the language is because within breaks into a break. so we have a diverse range of countries of the civilizations and cultures represented that is great. but on the other hand, that creates a problem. that is we need a unified voice, a unified medium of the understanding because rely on the western sources of

information. look at what, what can happen and in this information. this information uh, simplistic narr this and noam chomsky pointed this out other than arguably anyone else could have done 40 years ago in his famous book of manufacturing consent. saying that the there are the meaning that conditions of censorship within the united states. although the us will never own up to dfcs one, never loved the word censorship. i mean, you've got to have, uh donors, you've got to have a finance years from day corporations, you've got to have a good relations with the white house spokesperson that you get to sit in the front row instead of in the bank kicked out. like gotcha. and the cost of cnn ones was by donald trump, so on, so forth. so yes, we need better mechanisms. you know, what's that encouraging is there, if you're in beijing right now, like i do, you will be encouraged to see how many russians and indians, or south african studying the chinese language and vice versa. a lot of chinese are studying in johannesburg in st. petersburg dispatch,

despite the western sanctions against russia. so people to people bonding is very important with color in each other more through the filters through the filters. the filters are bad filters are misleading and filters are, are counterproductive. i know. and basically the same question too, because i think they, the key word here is under standing. i mean, they, they, the bricks countries. note with the threats of the west. again, you know, the, the, the collective west is at war in one form or another with russia. it's better to stand together than stand alone. and i think that's a message of, of the last 2 years as well. i think the grad phrases, it's better to do that if, if you don't hang together, you'll hang separately. right? um yeah, i mean there, there is other things i'm, i'm a part of them. i'm a senior fellow at the tire institute. we hold a civilization for him and we've done this for the last 10 years and that's exactly

what we're talking about is the kind of communication that is necessary. the confusion said the, we're blessed with 2 years and one mouth, so we should listen twice as much as we say. and that applies to china as well as other countries. china has a, you know, a primary trade relationship with 140 countries unfortunately, but the chinese know very little about the countries there, there, it's improving as i, well, i know you're sorry, i have to, i have to jump in here. we're going to have to go to a hard break, and after that hard break,

we'll continue our discussion on break. stay with the the welcome back to the cross walk. we're all things are considered on peter le belcher manual. we're discussing breaks the ok when it go back to i know are in, in beijing, are you one of the interesting phenomena and thinking about brakes and i'm, i was a trained to the story and, and so you know, the history is important at the end, but it always is important where your starting point is that it breaks is,

is challenging in a constructive way, i would say. but i mean, the post world war 2 order that was created in 1945. but if you would prefer to take a much broader look, i think it's, we're seeing 500 years of western domination of the globe be coming to an end and mostly took the by its own, its own demise, its own unforced errors. but that is this, that's a huge shift. it's a paradigm shift and we're all lucky. i think it to be witnesses. they'll see that happening. as i said in my introduction, one more world is coming to an end. and another one is coming into being, go ahead a yeah, there's been 600 years of met. basically you got colonial efforts basically pushed forward by the ability to use canons and weapons that were superior to the world was conquered by the europeans. and then after them the americans,

so we're seeing the decline of that. and that whole model was based on if i have the power, i make the rules, i don't have to obey them, but you certainly do. and that is being changed, this multi color world, where a lot of the countries are used to have the majority of the g d p, for instance. you know, india had 24 percent of the world cdc in the area that encompasses india today. when the british left, they had 4 percent, so it gives you the kind of idea of the ravages of ink. so, i mean, you know, people in the west think that africa was a bunch of savages. actually they had a civilization stating backs thousands of years before anybody and um, europe was even thinking beyond the, you know, the rolling of stone around. so, i mean, there's so many as you were pointing out earlier asking the question, there's a dearth of real information. there's this information out there that has basically made anybody who is not whites and part of europe somehow or less or being. and

we're seeing that very clearly in gaza for some reason when somebody is killed then in your brain and they're white. it's a huge tragedy. it's a moral issue, but when thousands of children and women are being slaughtered there because they're not the right color, it just doesn't matter. so yes, it's a positive change. we need to start thinking about civilizational values, how we manage amongst ourselves, how we understand that there are differences, but we can live with them kind of, of westphalia and idea. so hopefully that will take its course sooner, rather than later. well paul, okay, that i think is all i'm as a was what i know i had to say because um, you know, when we're in in the west they have talked for decades about the rise of china. but we know we're looking at many of the countries in breaks. it is the re emergence of these countries, the re emergence of their co, a cultures and civilization on a,

on a global scale. you know, the, like, you know, indian ask are appropriate to examples, you know, or the western mindset debate. there is, there's a certain framing of them which doesn't match reality at all. and bricks gives them the strength to show you know, that we're part of a global community, but it's not designed and controlled by the west and the less control from the west . the better it can be. i think all of you have and 1st of all, let me let me think of michael panelist from china for the compliment and thank you for watching of us post you all very, very comprehensively and convincingly argued that the rest and media and shows that we started this each other to filters, um that that's q our understanding of each other in the global south, uh and, and within the breaks grouping. and that needs to change and we need to be able to speak for ourselves to each other and,

and convey the message directly. and that's very, very important. and yes, it does not. so the rest to talk about our v margins because that's not a narrative that suits them and for years, for decades, the other ones will set the narrative it's. it's important to change that it does not happen overnight, but it will happen with the concerted efforts from all sides so, so that of having said that, i also want to bring in here be the point that live the rest as a problem all within the brakes to be there are differences and there are challenges that if we under please read on the risk of turning it into yet another talk. so yeah, that i and, and i know that has just signed a border deal and now things are looking better and that they weren't looking so good in the last uh, folder audios there are, uh there is there sounds really behind ended on uh, that's what i'm to knock a longer boost on enemies and, and then there was a coming together and it approach small and i get that obviously that needs to be settled. so i think it's important to acknowledge and address the challenges and

the differences in, in security and a national interest spent. a lot of these of each bricks member brings to the table . if we don't do that, then we like i said, run the risk of not being able to uh, to exploit the full potential of a dispute that has been built over the years. yeah, well, i'm gonna jump in, jump and go right ahead. i definitely go ahead, i just, i disagree re slightly from this point of view. i think the strength of breaks is it does not bring in the political side, because if you start doing that, then it becomes united, many united nations. and that hasn't worked out very well as long as it's 6 to trade. it can bring in other countries. countries that will not normally get along like in south south africa. i mean south america in africa itself, in the middle east. there's not uniformity. there are the many differences, but if you make it about territory and you know, areas of influence,

you will bog it down if it's just about opening up trait and have element, i think there's a chance for success. well, i absolutely agree. i mean, the good jump in, go ahead, go ahead. i just want to say that truth cannot be conducted in a vacuum. create is just one dimensional relationship that a country has with another computer and all the crew of, if i could give an example of buck is dog, which is which is in the doldrums, economically and very keen to the stop trade with india and just position has been very clear that the editors of been trained to not go hand in hand so we don't want any of it. i think it's important to, to acknowledge that countries have a multi dimensional integration with each other. and you can update one aspect out and see that this is all that you're going to focus on, irrespective of what you do with us. look at the border or in, in a, in a security situation. that is not how i would try to. but i think, i think the approaches i but i think the 11 that let me go back to you and

basically i, i think the approach is, is i do what's doable. i mean, it's not a panacea. and breaks is not gonna solve all the world's problems. okay. um, but what brits can do when i think the help of the brakes is that it can make decisions on its own. you know, for the last 600 years, the world needs the west. permission to do things breakfast saying, no, we're winning ourselves off this, we're gonna, we ourselves, off the, off the dollar. for example. we're going to trade in our own currencies that gives you freedom. that gives you sovereignty. go ahead to give you solvency and also digging it to you talk about the dominance us us dollars. it is increasingly becoming a tool for the us. that's specifically the us treasury department to really control and manipulate and dominate the rest of the world. and, and the funny thing is, the irony of it all is us sanctions often times the feats as purpose. it's not me who said it's a simple rock. obama who said it was john kerry who had said that after they retired, you know,

think about the us sanctions against cuba. what happened to cuba? average monthly salary of cubans averaging $30.00 to $50.00 a year. what happened to you round after the us anxious? you know, the run the economy contracting 20th and 2019 by 8 to 7 to 9 percent respectively . and to venezuela under the us sanctions. um, you know that the us anxious lied to a 3000 percent of inflation in that very country and even brock obama. i think during his tenure as president does, said the us sanctions, the us sanctions against cube. i police defeats the purpose. yeah. you're, you know, you're pointing to a larger question of whether the rush that should succumb to the dominance of the west. i think china has been and therefore breaks where that neither i think is working consistently to say that to look the west can be our partner on breaks is not the exclusive partnership, but the inclusive one. and when it comes to the argument between our inner and my

indian friend regarding the debate between security and development, i think the 2 things really go handy hand best way in the present. she's global development initiative and global security initiative are concurrently proposed. and i think that's very important because we cannot have no peace without the ports, without bridges, without safe drinking water without gender equality. and also one last thing should i add, which is focusing more, we should be focusing more on the sustainable development, goes to the united nations, 17 of them, antonio quoterush even said we're failing and badly when he comes to the asked the gees brakes talk about stds. breaks talk about the development. i think we should really move away from the, the, the logical uh, the bates and, uh, you know, uh you know, good talking to each other through the filters. we should be focusing on those developmental issues. think about the 17 stages. i know 10 years from now, hopefully bricks will be having a summit in one of their member countries. what,

what do you hope bill succeeded in achieving in the next 10 years? i think i traded developments in some sort of uniform of trade agreement that covers them that reduces terrace that allows these countries do it. i think the biggest opportunity that is out there, if you start looking at small micro, small, medium size business entities the world over. they are the backbone of all economies. the digital revolution promises or has the least the potential to link the small entities and to unleash incredible amount of energy that they provide to every single economy that's out there. imagine a world where you simply fill out a form and that form is the basis of a contract. it covers who is responsible for what you either view a and b don't agree that they want to be responsible, but they want to go ahead. they find somebody else who will take the responsibility

and therefore you get rid of a lot of lawyers, a lot of accounts. if you have a digital currency taxation is at the point of transaction. you can then have the bills of it. you don't need bills of lading, you don't need to cover some contracts. and all of this you can have various smart systems that actually monitor both sides to make sure one can pay and the other one will produce you a if you are able to do that low brakes. i think you'll see a completely changed world one that is much better for everybody. well, and hopefully a lot more peaceful. ok. i'm not, i, i'm going to think about, you know, the, the, the problem, the problem of turning this into a little you and i think that's something we have to think about as well. but in the meantime, i wish breaks all the success and all of us here on the panel. i want to thank our guests engaging and a new dally. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at archie. see you next time. remember prospect

the a the same rom just don't you have to shape house to come after kids and engagement equals betrayals. when so many find themselves world support. we choose to look so common ground, the in the late 18 ninety's french soldiers led by general paul who arrived in asia with the goal of expanding french control in west africa to the territory of more than shot one

or 32 on sunday. i mean, he's stuck up some issues with all the cars do and dick's shown the list to the content of who they on least one of the most horrific campaigns of atrocities, to have ever taken place in the history of the continent. what is somebody i know the question that you download, the philosophy followed there to do some paper possession, most likely multiple villages with devastated a numerous members of resistance groups with the headed home for us to get the approval for a young investigator in search of his own identity and box on that you need to africa. the choices general go with a blood drenched roots in an effort to establish how your legacy still echoes throughout the confidence. so my name is center and i come from england and i've

come really to find out more about the, the mission of willie and the history in, in the region. the it is precisely in the civilizational diversity, a unique combination of national traditions that lies the strength, then enrollment's potential for cooperation, direct summit, and because on has come to a triumphant close providing attendees with a detailed roadmap for development. that says the west cautiously is the blocks the plans to shake off the dollars change. also have the 7 people are killed by an idea, throw a gun, a residential building, and they route as 3 reporters lose their lives in the south. the 11th