to ask all of the questions, some more questions, ask the better. the answer is will be the hello and welcome to world a pipe. alexis the talk, quote, french politician, diplomatic, best known for his war of democracy in america. one to centuries ago about how a dynamic ourselves power and democratic system can decay and become the total opposite of its founding values with miles despotism and the appearance of choice. replacing individual fraud and authentic liber teams still use that the greatness of america lies in not being more enlightened than any other nation, but in her ability to repair her false. does this still hold true to date

or to discuss that i'm now doing by richard sacrament, professor emeritus of the russian and european politics at the university of count the 1st. the 2nd one is great to see your again, thank you very much for your time. my pleasure, thank you. now, um, 1st i wanna ask you, what was your initial reaction when you woke up on november 6th. i learned that america has an old new president who was mixed feelings, but they me do it. one was about opinion polls because just 2 days ago before the election, that'd been in the opinion polls in iowa. we showed cumberland hires are putting ahead by few percent. so i was speaking to the media and others and suggesting well as too close to cool. and of course, we now know that by an over what well as well me 5000000 and votes and the popular ballot and in the electoral college to him. because one overwhelmingly, which means his election is the judgment, cannot be contested. i know that talk of civil war and discord, of course it will be, it would be easy, but nevertheless, he's quite clearly the wind. so that was the 1st and the 2nd feelings that it's

over and done. 3rd, when you said to him is a mix to a new phenomenon in 2016 when he was 1st elected. if you remember, he was as his election to the whole campaign was bound up with her yesterday, delegations the charge of the accusation of solid fact uh gosh, identified that we got not only on the media but stoning the stuff from the democratic national committee. and so there were also sanctions introduced against various russian individuals because of that, which you haven't been pulled back. it was restored of with the slide to where we are today. when obama it spelled 35 regression diplomats in december 2016. and indeed, the whole attack on michael flint, who was to him 1st national security advisor, which, which in a sense, hobbled as a whole size to him pain medication because he said smoke, it makes sense to get to him with gotcha. and it does so as mayflower speech. oh

yeah, that yeah. so uh, so finally, just to say that uh this time to him too will be different from to him when he's learnt a few lessons. how different we don't know he's come to say, we'll have to say who is up, who is appointments are going to be. well before discussing that, i want to ask another personal question. i wonder if you felt vindicated by the choice of the american people. because what it endorses in part is, um, the ability to go against this censuring politically correct. the consensus which you also didn't over the last couple of years when you continue engaging with russia in its political science circles, despite all the pressure at home. yes, no, you're absolutely right to that to in the sense that to 1st the fact that the 1000000 people stood up as it was against the mainstream media against all of that virus cope again to what people say the military, industrial media think tank complex and they spoke and there's they were also some

innovation, i think identity like try a law enforcement then by police play have a off and very still despite you know, maybe to him is flawed vessel full for protests. yet he was the only one on offer, and they have jo stein is a 3rd candidate, but come with the highest. of course, i'm going to give her credit. she had $107.00 days in which to make a campaign, but she, in those $107.00 days to cut the gift card due for a courier didn't have commitment. but of course she made one mistake off to another and so to team. so, and the fact that to, you know, people didn't want to feel good about identity politics. they didn't want to vote negatively in her campaign, was all the time that bad to him could be they wanted something more positive and to him. target dog screen of offered something different. well, um i think we can argue with the, um, you know, positive is the right term. i saw a couple of freshmen that experts say that companies as shallow and primitive as

his opponents are complicated, 1 may say, confused on that there is a large constituency in america that is for cheap and perhaps even afraid of this new notion of progress, especially when it moves into the realm of gender roles and family structure because those people may be afraid off. um, you know, the whole notion of humanity being sort of uh, questioned or changed. uh, do you agree with that? that the, there was an existential sort of fact, no different selections as well. there certainly is. this was this every said the one of the most consequential elections in the united states for, for decades. and it was, i know i quite understand the concerns. for example, women's going to get to rights and so on. of the question of abortion temp, of course, towards the end tapes shifted it and said it's up to the states and the number of states by the way, in this section as well. post measures which are protected,

so in the sense that it seems to be sensible to leave it to the state. of course, when can complain about the bye. didn't know you about the administration's for not having put into little what was it versus wait a supreme court judgment, quotes should not make the law. they have had to interpret and to apply the law, it's up to the pol them into a congress. that's not only about abortion, it's about all those experimentation with genders and to you as they're in transgender ism and family structures as well. and i think there has been some reckoning in the new york times in this cnn. i have seen some article suggesting that you know, those people and those motors who have these objectionable views, they have to be taken seriously. how interesting, the liberal circles, the liberal camp is likely to react to all of that evict terms of victory as a major defeat for that american style of a entity politics. i mean, with the lights themselves. so one thing the way that, that becoming the ideal energy in united states is another and to him 10 isn't

quite openly and complete through your jackson. so of course it's huge upset in those who pushed as well as a secretary and issues west whom elevated or shifted the terms of the debate to fundamental questions of working, still working standards. and so one context of it into the working class. but he did you guys questions about the industrialization, about maybe cuz economy and i'm told a guest. so fundamental questions of getting back to your office and you know, who you, who you, on what you should be also uh, i think i would argue with you, you're here because i agree that there's certain provided concerns there as well. but i think one of the essential lines of division and the selections was the question of freedom of what freedom really ease, whether it is all sorts of public um and sometimes questionable experimentation with the human form or whether it's an ability to express your dislike or disapprove of that. i wonder if you agree with that,

that the americans were also choosing between various versions or varies the conditions of what freedom really means. absolutely. it was about terms of the debate and how you should debate these issues. because what, unfortunately, the democratic establishment and some of it was closing down debate. it was, it wasn't, you know, having an open discussion. it was condemning the individuals and using all sorts of censorship with suited to, to files and own international issues as well. so the, the, the sphere of discussion and debate and dialogue had narrowed. now it looks like a jump was a, stood up for precisely unorthodox opinions and for an outside agent. he's obviously a fully an insider, yet to present himself as an outside. but by doing so, he opens up exactly as you say, the public's fed to a wide range of opinions. i don't know about you, but for me personally, i think my nervous system doesn't always handle well and watching the american

contain doesn't matter whether it's republican or the democratic has the very high p h. i mean, like the intensity of emotions, not just the emotions themselves. there sometimes too much, but the intensity, everything is the highest possible volume. i wonder if it's really possible to, to govern people after you sort of the subject them down to that kind of with this course. i mean, how can you just course and it didn't discuss anything of such a high volume. absolutely. as i said, the united states has become polarized, and that there's been, this was called, salting. is that has become course, i wonder if they're deliberately driving di people into a multi costs is because, i mean, when you look at even a trunk riley's or how you can load harris's around these people do not have a calm face is, i mean, they're all on edge yeah, no, you have to guide them or you can style of politics is a bit rough and it's a bit emotional for us and this it's, i know, and the fact that it goes on for so long as well. meetings that a sort of

a keeps raising a picture to get attention from the bonus to it looks like chronic be to see all like post traumatic stress disorder. people always seem to find a flight mode. yeah. so they ever get to the point where they can come down and use that. yeah. so it's sort of friend crump could be very sorry to lose this little vision, which i've now been pushing forwards. putting forward as an idea is that the united states in the west, as, as, as a model of life has presented itself as hyper normal. it's so hoping normally that anything that challenges that countries outside and of course versus some within, oh, considered not only abnormal but evil and to be condemned and you have so the guy and so the pitch goes higher and higher. but we'd like to say that of this clear, open victory of to him. now, actually, i think going to put the temperature down. i know there's a lot of talk of the resistance emerging and so on. but yet, they con is going to do anything because quite clearly the people have spoken and do that x rays, you say as, as alexis de tocqueville said, is that americans,

the system itself, has this ability to your generate itself. i am very glad about that. what i mean, as we've been talking to lots of this about i meeting and so on. and i've been doing all of the time that what we're talking about is a post american world. nothing n t american world. what we want to do now is to normalize and that you can publish excel trumps 1st presidency, was characterized by a lot of internal, some baton rouge in part due to him not being fully supported by the establishment of the republican party. but this time decision is different, different, the republicans have both the control of the, the executive and the legislation. branches. do you think it provides an opportunity for the republican party to do something more substantial and here to do their type of transformation of us folder and domestic policy, they opted not very interested in this is, this is the 65000 global question is the to who he's going to

a point to his cabinet. and so at the moment there's a numerous might of space speculation about who's going to be that, who's going to be influential? if we know one thing so far is that j defends his vice president is a very important figure. i mean, i'll even put my money on him possibly being a successor. yeah, that's the only one. no, indeed. indeed, i'm long. so moving, get much if i put a bunch of it now, but the district events, but also donald trump junior, who was the one who actually insisted to his father that that point j. d events as opposed to the other ones, a bunch of other candidates. rubio and others to be the vice president. so, and that is an ideological that as well. and then the festa, we will be different this time and we will change about your account. and they, he also has the endorsement of a couple of very prominent personalities, including even mosque i, person who built the a lot of freed extraordinary businesses. and that as i was going to this interview, i read about the rumors that she may be appointed as they had of the commission in

charge of reforming the us government. would you invest your trust in uh, it will not masks ability to do that. i having numerous to us is ability to do things with your phone, the us government in a positive sense. because musk and another major influential fe got in this to him . constellation is pizza, t o t h. i will be found out by now. and these guys are, keep till even more visa, absolutely. libertarians that means anti government and to state, let the market do it and how they're going to make this work for normal working across americans. i don't know, but they put their reputation on the line in order to associated themselves with as you saw the constellation of, of trump. so it looks like they're doing that, not out of their own personal or corporate interest, but because they want to advance the i hold the interest of bad people. that's your i know you're that has to and in just this election has shown it even more into

a plutocracy. it really is the sort of the only galks. i mean, the fact that is something that we could give a whole list of very, very welcome or you can so shape this selection. but i won't just say that maybe it comes with simply bought, it starts like i'm not going to big, quite simple, but certainly that very powerful force. and so you're absolutely right there was and in this 1st to him, what did we, does he do? tax cuts for the rich. and what did you do for the normal work and people and it's very hard. we forget the big, numerous extent of poverty and the difficulties for normal blooming. what would that have negative thoughts? the middle class to live today to make ends meet with huge mortgages for externally high gains, prices going up as a near recovery system. i mean, i think it's a good test. let me just look at the interest you. i'm sure. absolutely. so it's, it's a, it's a, they need all of this. but as i said, it goes up in most schools quote to, for the good thing is, you know, i would go out to what a silly god give me to become something that goes. but he has

a numerous ability and so to speak, to these people have a chief something, not defending them as oligarchs. i'm defending them as onto a nurse with a lot of interesting ideas. and it would be fascinating quote, because america is entering into a major experiment. absolutely. and all of us, uh, you know, still camp on popcorn support. sure, absolutely. now coca cola always tell me the coal is really bad and then the rest of so nicely is already have access to it. but uh for the time being we have to take a very short break, but we will be back in just a few moments. stay tuned. the is the launch of the special military operations mold in $13000.00 far less than the race of joining the ukrainian miller tray. williams, lot of things are good enough to still go to an opinion i need for 2 of us doing the with any of them, but i feel it because it was trustworthy. which of my friend build for the fine you

is fine. yeah. the some of the but if the point on it the, that the surgeon at the end of what it is, i do know that you know, for your state, okay, for mental breakdowns gets dumped out as long as you might have time today to cover the dining from the phone susie, i'm going to sean you and get it gone. so not a vehicle from the excess to go on. the top of the field of worship means it is so slow because i see a guy and use that as a beautiful supervisor of good or should it for you? my florida, she knew was like you strong enough. listen to the physical, not the for the

the welcome back towards the portsmouth, richard sack club, professor emeritus of russian and european politics of the university of kent. uh, professor stucco. let's talk now about the implications of foreign policy or in the foreign policy around um, even though it's still a pretty early base. uh, we already hearing a lot of statements or seeing some movements coming from different countries. i want to start with israel, where a lot of politicians all of a sudden and now talking about the annexation of the entire west bank. now the trump is in office. and how do you seeing that the conflict is likely to evolve? well, it's been pretty bad so fast. and so genocide, joe is so many people call him, is quite unforgivable of what the by didn't administration did over the last year,

allowing at most of ation, mass, killing and garza. so over 700 people killed in the west bank since october the some 10 for live in an unquestioned big day for that. and of course, extending the will into lebanon and using these dreadful tactics, attacking hospital schools, united nations buildings, and so on. well, you can kind of get worse, and of course it can get worse. and by doing, i thought i bit to him in the last time his big gamble was on the so called a behind the codes to did should to dump the palestinians. and then tab it with a game, it was sad, you're going to be normalization with his go united out your memory, expiring and so on. and so that didn't work. it provoked this uprising and the world will not accept at this time. so trump may want something other and you know, it, obviously they, the extremist and is here in the government. have these huge ambitions from indeed,

from the, from the give it to the scene to make it a single state. but of course they, they can't do this in isolation because we've got a vast, yes, it's an area where we talk, does that sound you're going to be caught on united. so it's a, yeah, it's going to be very important to see how he can bring them on board. and they quite clearly will not abandon the palestinian course today. so it set everything to pay for. we just hope that you know that the, tim can i make unpredictability. may work to advantage here is that he may actually then speak to an engineer, i would say, stop this mass murder and stop some, all of this. well she, i think he's as unpredictable as he's for nevada and the, as he pointed out, you know, she's friendship with the read this out is, is not only a platonic i'm in the, in as the lot in the, in the united states. yeah, that's right. there is a material interest there as well. absolutely. do. as you say, to him is uh, is mckenzie list. i said to you is that we told him hoping that his normalize

things internally, but also to normalize america in foreign policy. it's a pragmatic oil and relationship, some sort is bigger than israel. so in the logic context, he understands that and skins 10 samples and with united value, maybe it's and so, and so many other states as well. now turning to the conflict in ukraine now according to pulse, the majority of americans are roughly 70 percent. so it includes also some democratic folders as well. they want the leadership of the united states to push your brain towards any goal, shaded peace with russia. what are your bads on how the new administration is going to handle it? it seems to him, as i said to him, co thing is that you must take his words seriously, but not let's relate until the 24 hours, just a symbolic way of sense. no, i'm going to deal with this and he's upset. he got that to allow a girl in the heart of yo, with stomach stuffing and damage. and so in his damage, you know, obviously to you're trying to show to europe as well and to global piece and development. so yep, i mean again i, if it had been

a bind to know kind of behaviors who'd once we'd have continuity, we're going to have a new team. and so they will try to. but what, maybe we don't know, oppose or see fox, but what i will ways out getting for we have to start all negotiation. start with the 1st step at the moment is no steps. so once, if we can actually just start the process. and of course i think it's important human. he was attacked last time for his go to the relationship between to him and put him. i think it's an advantage. i think that the 2 can talk, but not the language of ultimatum. so because that, you know, there's that famous report allegedly that to him said if, if he also doesn't accept it, they get a bull moscow. i mean, this was the same as the put his press secretary, sunday on the day when, when uh, in the last time they observed that when trump moved into the lighthouse keys, rhetoric. yeah. so essentially just have stuff and then you put it in putting into book medically. but let me use this opportunity to ask you about the criminal and because the rest of the leader has so far been uh,

quite reserved. the in his reaction to the results of the american election. but clearly lodge meant put in is interested in ending this for me uh, fully on the rushes terms. um, do you think he will uh, find this up a change in trunk coming to the white house, attractive enough to perhaps compromise or at least to invest a little bit of trust in the west again? i think that, i mean his position in gosh, as official position is to go back to the is done bu agreement of march, april 2022, adding new tires for in the rush. i had been bringing the car and taking into account changes on the, on the field itself. absolutely. this makes neutrality. no nato membership and acceptance of the tell your total position. because obviously you can use a major country, a big country, somebody have to go from that. so what and i also think that the coming position is that this is resolution contrast be local for the time being to allow the board to

start all the fire. a permanent settlement, not a clear and type searched. i put them in supplement, that means sea levels within ukraine itself. and then the european security level, which is absolutely shy. so i'm in the global level, us and law joe with china, of course in india and the brazil. um framework. so, you know, is nested like for us and go all of these. and i will say that to him please go to, you know, hitch t and gazed with china earlier, quite significantly. so and then do so it's, i have a feeling that this, let's just put it this way. there's a slightly more chance of movement towards some sort of peace settlement. no. then that would have been if the alternative had happened about you relative before the whole point of made. so what's to prevent more and yet somehow it ended up in the very situation it was designed to avoid. is there any and that the new american leadership can do to sort of bring nature back to its initial defense and the

conflicts prevention rather than mission, crape orientation. one of the interesting things, like the most interesting thing about the hotel phenomenon, is that it's post a plan to assessed by that. i mean that we've lived in europe since 1945 with the united states deeply involved. and since 1949 we've nighttime so, and it's pets, very good. united states provided the marshall plan and to get coverage and so on. and we want to may not laurie. so with the united states knowing his questioning that. but what we don't want is this constant, if you like investigation and some people call that. and what i would like to say is this post this post, i'm a, can you imagine? which would be, you know, again, some sort of vision from lisbon to vladivostok, inclusive security or to body. and of course, this is going to a shop russel's, do you hear your opinion and those who really invested into data, and what does they tell too much like it was an instrument designed for collective defense. it failed of to the end of the 1st code will often 1999 to become

a collective security buddy. that's a very different thing. collective defense is against them. one collective security brings everyone and i'm pull. russia was left out. there was no place for gotcha in that's a collective different system and we are where we are. so we really have to go to basics and jump into started. so saying, so many device, smart man, i think phase change of his behavior is good to have them. everything is a way of expressing which understands. but yes, but he, you know, he's, it, he's actually smart than what was just to kind of put on in this selection. it was very interesting that he was sometimes this is what made him populous. okay, this magic is a, sometimes a self reflective. and you know, even, you know, he gave one of these speeches in his heart, this nonsense for me. okay. yeah, dressing unless he makes the car part of the narcissistic as he appears he also appears human. yes. exactly. with all these as all of them, even some awareness of his faults as he does human quite well. some um, since you mentioned your uh in the last couple of hours,

we also learned that the ruling coalition in germany fell apart with the chancellor shoulds firing his finance minister, accusing him of deep tub advertising and betraying the interest of the nation. while the minister, who is the chancellor of being unable to offer a viable economic program for joe many of the time of crisis, where do you think trump's re election may not your of, and more precisely joining because this used to be the sort of the main founding stolen, no security and you know, and indeed the economic power. how yeah. and of course it's being suffering due industrialization, lack of investment, and really for 20 years of lack of investment in physical infrastructure, health, education, so on highways. so jim news has lost its shine and it's now coming to crunch time. and so there's 2 accusations you've been a both accurate with. who are you saying i'd like to change? they're using to elections and brandon back to india and sikes,

and they are so not just assume right wing movement, but also they're still nationally strength, astonishing strength of this left conservative sort of the next. and so the elect to politics of yoga is also changing. i have a feeling that to him will be a game changer that we're going to see possibly a, you know, changes in germany. we're obviously now there's going to be an election next year. and that will obviously change with the new government that's clear. and also in feelings, we've got elections coming up in perhaps, and we're getting the pen government finally. initially, malone, they will perhaps become more like we're going to somebody didn't believe nothing regarding prospective, but suggest challenging that at the line to assist that nato, that militaristic block. so we may say that so suddenly, all the pieces in movement, again, how they collect, how they gains themselves. well, who can so, but it's actually going to be, i think, an important time for you to look at itself and decide what sort of you do we want . well, actually you are letting me into my guess final question i mentioned alex is the

talk. will it in my introduction and apart from democracy in america, he also penned the very interesting work, self interest. well, in the student, i think it's a very timely as to a very timely strategic on how to balance individual freedoms with the social interest or the values of society as a whole. and i wonder if you think form or process and societies like germany or perhaps some others can still come to a different understanding of their own self interest, something that you know, service them. but also, you know, doesn't contradict that. the neighbor to the ties, let's say you say this is one of the things which if we could just talk about the normalization of international politics, that to move back to the principal of solving international you're solving and state your government in your own interests. but the also into action this to work with others for common issues. but what's we've seen in latest is, is a sort of

a liberal internationalism, which has undermine the ability for states to shape them. destiny is, as you say, into distance listing and hungry. the way this is working out in poland in different ways in slovakia and so many countries want to say no, no, we want to be part of a larger community. but at the same time we don't want to give up our own individuality. so i think that to him, selection has he had seen as a sign up for us moving into a post liberal society. well, um or if it's a sec, while i hope you are right. but to, i guess we will explore that in our next interview. a couple of years from now. thank you very much for being with us today though. my pleasure. thank you. i'm thank you for watching. i hope to see her again on the world for parts the

the take a fresh look around his life. kaleidoscopic isn't just a shifted reality distortion, by how us to do vision with no real opinions. fixtures designed to simplify will confuse really once a better wills, and is it just as a chosen few fractured images presented to this, but can you see through their illusion going underground? can the .