rows while russia finds in china and reliable by 2. and of course, uh being my opinion and not a aspect of like getting a price structure and connectivity projects such as like the pipelines and the transportation lanes between trying out a roger now on expanding. and so this enhance the regional connectivity and increased trade to close that including true initiatives like the balance of the road. so this connectivity and the trade cooperation, apartment shave opposed to reach the economic. it's a belief development and, but overall, department shape. but between china and the rush or the successor strategy and import the platform for both countries. some of the upcoming uniform policy chief kind of tell us has accused china and russia of what she calls quote, exploiting the openness of the west. i'm wondering if we can talk to us about how that comments as being seen there in china. well, which is supposedly a,

china and russia is going to explore 18, west the country this china and the roger of you know, playing a very important role in the, a worldwide in security in florida. why the end of we, the 2 countries, both very important to you, and how can i say a may be the false in the road of peacekeeping? so i don't think it's a china and the russian will be exploring things, requesting contracts. all right, well what their dollars on jones, some low cd, 10 correspondent. thank you. us. all right and do stay with us here on our t international next on costs of peta lavelle and his guest discussed the re election of donald trump and would have possibly means for america's foreign policy by the

the, [000:00:00;00] the hello and welcome to cross stock were all things are considered on peter lavelle, many of called the recent presidential cycle, a change election. this is probably true, but will this include americans foreign policy? donald trump has a mandate to pursue change. he will have the power for change course. when we opt for continuity instead, the cross fucking trump, i'm joined by my guess. chris hedges in princeton. he is a pulitzer prize winning journalist and author,

and in rome we cross allister crook. he is a former british diplomat, right. children cross lock rules and effect, that means you can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate chris. let me start out with you. the title of this program is changed or continuity. now, i think it's largely agree that trump has a mandate. i think like the rest of us were very surprised by the margins. but will this mandate be extended into foreign policy? you know, we have a lot of ideas about what drum thinks about things, nothing really solid. i guess that applies to the 1st administration to. but recent appointments, potential positions in his administration indicate a lot more continuity to me then change what your thoughts go ahead, chris. it depends on the region of the world. i think these are the ukraine. you will see a reticence on the part of the trump administration to continue

a following weapons to the training and government and perhaps see some kind of solution of the war. which of course, could have been done before the war, which is an exchange of land for peace. in terms of the middle east, it will be complete continuity, and perhaps even more aggressive ness. remember, trump move the american embassy from tel aviv to jerusalem. he recognized his real sovereignty over the occupied goal on heights. there is a heavy push within the ducts and yahoo government to annex the west bank. certainly nothing will change and gaza makes no difference if you're palestinian guys or whether it's binding or trump, or harris or anyone else. but i think we could see a more aggressive pastor in the west bank is real. of course is applying its genocidal tactics with increasing frequency in the west bank. it is carried out the largest land seizure since october 7th that we've seen in the west bank since the

occupation. um, so that would be the difference. uh, i will say this on trump's, but have, i'm not a trump supporter, but he doesn't seem to like where the democratic party is clearly the war party in this country against it. i agree with you. i don't know how he's going to square the circle on that one year. essentially the same question to allister and to with the added question at the end, when will trump get tired of dislike the slogan? genocide don, i was suppose to like, like to say i agree with your cautious bus comes actually we don't know who's going to be in the team. there's a lot of disruptive propaganda going on with many of the neo cons, lobbying and trying to get themselves, either into the transition or into the cabinet. and we've seen that we've completely bogus attempts to say there was a telephone call between trump for president fulton

a just recently and it was just whole site completely untrue, even though it was in the washington post with those who were privy to the call said this so that was just true. so i think we have to be a little cautious. but broadly a i agree with what chris hedges just said in that i think when it comes to ukraine, it, it's going to be different from other parts department policy. one reason is because a really rough show is in the driving seat on ukraine. i mean, the war is not actually one. it's 6 seller a 2. now in that direction. and i think that really there isn't very much that washington couldn't put into the pot if it didn't like if it was in said for example, no, i'm sorry, i'm no one tennessee spar. i'm wanting

a permanent solution and i'm going to go for a permanent solution. so what is washington going to do? i mean it's, it's slots and expended all of its possibilities on that. so i think that is easier if you like. i think the most difficult one will be um, actually with israel because israel, i mean the festival of president doesn't have as much room for maneuver any president of the us. because as you know, you know, congress is bought lock stock and or a bite is the lobby, and therefore he doesn't have that much room for me. but i think he wants to be a friend of his role. but the consequences of that may be very great. my guess is he probably doesn't want, he probably doesn't want trouble in the middle of the well, i mean, yeah, but allister, does he want to have a biden's legacy when it comes to israel, palestine, i, and, you know, we, we,

everybody can have their own thoughts about donald trump, i have my own, but he wants to be loved in light. ok. being called genocide, don is not going to go down very well. let me go back to chris and princeton, chris, i mean, we have what 69 days left of the a by didn't ministration. what's the stop them from escalating when it comes to crate? i mean it's there war and, and, and so it will be donald trump's war. go ahead, chris. well, 1st of all, the americans are extremely polarized country and half of the country who's not neutral about donald trump. uh, they are are less than half of certainly of the electric, but he's used to being tarred and feathered rhetorically of not just by his opponents, but by mainstream media cnn the new york times where i used to work, etc. so being labeled genocide, don, rules off of him when it comes from that other side of the divide. i

think the most dangerous sort of con, potential conflagration or is not does it won't come out of your brain won't come out of the warrants, and they do, i mean, they've given crane just about everything you can give them. but i think that the danger it will be a push find that and yahoo to insight along with a rat. right. and using this interim period, a probably because by and will be walking away to by the administration that i just think various potential. there certainly is nothing. yeah. the government wants a conflict with around the united states does not want to conflict in iran or with iran. but if there is a mass of attack, we don't know how to err on is going to respond, especially with significant civilian casualties. and as alice to correctly points out to us, congress has been bought and paid for by the israel lobby. and then i think that's,

that's a bigger danger than anything happening. and you crank, well, i mean, there's a reason, right? let's go go to allister, now in rome. i mean, the reason why i bring up the escalation is that escalation in both of these crisis areas, ukraine and israel, palestine created basically what, what they, by the administration and it's waiting days. we want to do is create political facts on the ground, essentially delivering their foreign policy to donald trump in his beam with even fewer options. allister as well what? yes, it can be escalation, ukraine, but i think that will be managed by most go quite adequately. so middle east is different, it's much more dangerous and it could easily settle something. my try to just to be clear on the z is riley government expects, and this us kittens full from to accept the i makes ation moves of westbank garza and they've sense and then box it up to the united states who is a set to

a zealous and who's been living in hebron during such as quite kid and people like small traits, think it's a done deal. but the main thing, it's that i think the what you could easily see from israel would be them to declare victory and 11 and then garza and then say to trump, now we need you to come and support us. and i've tried calling me wrong. and that's why i think you're going to see in this period a had a good a wrong that is going to attack israel 1st. and iran is going to do that because the most important thing now because it, it's really for writing the same path. we saw with, with, with earlier, with, with ukraine where the west says, oh russia, it's own, it's nice, it's troops are not trained. they don't even have food. they've got no, i, me

a nation that come on this terrible. and they say no, the same about iraq. iran, we just droid or dispenses. we got them experience ability to make me so it's really no, they should before us we go in where we like nothing could be further from the truth. and in fact, best tend to take out the defense is, was a complete failure. they have not damage any of the what they call the mixes. those mixes were moved during is hot, told me, is period this president into the big mountains very immune from that. so i, it's all being set up for the idea of the america that can be pulled in to the school. and i think this is going to be dangerous. and which is why, or iran needs to establish just as russia get to the united states. that it is middle tree capable. it has real that parents,

it has the ability to hook israel very seriously and body if you want to go down and i prove they've tried to show it twice. i'm still a narrative. tons wrong and goes the other way. oh no, iran is just lying naked before us. now's the time we can destroy the new, the new kid capacity. that's nonsense. they wouldn't have that. and they might turn out to be a very ugly engagement indeed. but i think there is a prospect that we might get hold into that because yes, i think there is support in the united states and support even amongst those that he seems to be nominated. thing too is team for a war with iraq. it seems that there is a faction in washington that once a will well to richard itself, chris, i want to ask you the same thing, but in the 2nd part of the program, but it has always, it looks like personnel is policy. can you quickly comment on that before we go to

the break? yeah, i'll allister is right. he is bringing in these rabid, neo cons who have long lusted for a conflict with air ran um and uh and i, and i would uh, 2nd, dallas sters warning this potential interim period is extremely dangerous because they, uh, essentially, by the time if a war began with a ran trump with inherited do not much. well that was, that would be the best. that would be the very point. that's the stratagem here. gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on terms foreign policy. stay with our team,

the, the welcome back, across software. all things are considered on peter la belcher mind. you were discussing the potential trump form policy. the . let's go back to chris and prince, and i'd like you to follow up on what else are had to say about the potential of a regional clearing up of the conflict in west asia. the greater middle east of the library wants to describe it, but it seems to me that this is a way as alice are described as a way to trip abide. i'm sorry, the new trump administration into having a continuity of policy,

the not allowing him to have very many choices here. and then also comment is that the strategy of bringing of having a comp like israel, initiating a conflict with around also is an indirect, a conflict with russia. and that is something the divide ministration will certainly want to continue to test. go ahead, chris. yes, i mean, allister of reiterated the kind of arguments that are used to go after iran. we heard those arguments to justify the same kinds of arguments to justify the invasion and occupation the rack, which did not go particularly well for the united states. indeed was catastrophic. like afghanistan and syria and libya and everything else. um, the fact is the air defenses of around some of which are russians, some of which are chinese are quite good. uh, the uh, rainy and air force is quite decrepit, many of its more planes date back to the shop. but the air defenses are good and uh,

the israelis want the united states to take out the air defenses because they don't want to take the losses. uh, it would obviously start out as an aerial campaign. wherever we go from there. i don't know if it doesn't go well, there would be pressure to put troops on the ground logistically. how would that happen? again? i can see it coming in through your rack. maybe they can plow their way through the siri of those would not be as rarely troops, by the way, i mean there are just so many potentials. i mean, you know, i think the ability to speak an aircraft carrier is very possible. that's 5000 us lives. so the, this, i mean, i covered war for 20 years and once you open that pandora's box, it controls you, you don't control it. so yes, this is a very dangerous moment. i don't think it would go well for the united states at all, but it would be another war of attrition. we have to look also. 11 on things are

not going well for the israelis and 11 on reports of over 4000 casualties out of lebanon alone. um, and they have not moved. uh they, they've, they've, uh, they've been stymied of course their responses, but their response always is which is satcher ition bombing out. and just to go back to something allister mentioned the. ready which i left out, that's important news that yes, they want to annex the west bank, but they also want to annex gaza. they largely are achieving that in northern gaza . they want to create a humanitarian crisis that is of such catastrophic proportions in southern guy, the guy that they believe the israel isn't. that will put pressure on the international community to essentially de populate or asked equally plans, southern guns. so that's the plan. i don't know whether it's going to work. i've just been an egypt. and so my understanding is the gift in military has made it very clear to presidency,

see that there will be no palestinians in the sign i as is real, would like and as, as our secretary of state and to the blake and proposed to the c. c. government, the inter damian's have moved their troops up to the borders of the west bank because again, an anticipation of a massive ethnic cleansing campaign to push palestinians into jordan has a very, very volatile moment. um and i, i, i'm not as worried about the frame because honestly, i don't see what else the united states can do for you. yes, you have a tax with in russia itself. um, but i think the volatile area right now is the middle east. so i, i agree with you completely, but, you know, but my thesis has always been, it's, it's, is nato willing to give up. it's not necessarily a r u. s. president, or whoever is in power in camp. so i think that still remains to be a wild card, but i obviously agree with the what's going on in the middle east is much more volatile. i was sure that, you know, considering our conversation here, you know,

we're looking at an administration going out and the new one coming in. but considering we've already said here, doesn't really matter who the president of united states is with us. i think the, because i do say here the, the would be a possibility festival, the what, when, when it started launched its attack, which it breaks on. so you know, they want to know what's in the middle. come as a huge surprise, they'll be show. and then fact there, uh cross level versus 70 kilometers to the uranium s space. and then we saw and we heard on the hebrew channels, they said, you know, some things going on weeks from that we're facing air defenses that are on know and unexpected. and yes, they will probably the s 400, which was actually low thing on even to the spells f,

35 at 70 kilometers away from the aerospace survey shots they, they collapsed it and they came home. second, the 2nd wave, which was supposed to follow the destruction of the defenses would come in bottom, paying separately. it was cancelled and pulled back. so i just wanted to say that, but i think, you know, to, it's the same thing with, with, in a way, with russian iran has the under siege being attack, cuz be the sanction being threatened with bombings for, since really the, you know, from the c c 6 years ago, i'm a little cool. it's only going to come to some form of settlement when we understand that iran has military capabilities that are serious and capable of establishing

a power to within the region. and that we talk to them as if you like someone on the call and someone who deserves respect and venue is both game and how was clear, how do we get there? i mean, you've already said both of you who've already said, well, you know, we're, capitol hill is, is, is really occupied territory. i mean, i agree, you're absolutely right. that's the way to go. but how do we get there? well, i think you're going to see because i think what's going to come fairly shortly is a, in a much more demonstrative attack on israel by iraq. which way really? i mean, i think you know, anyone else to this will not really beasley, they know that they have to actually come and get the west to accept that they have really the parents. it's not the i cross the i agree with her say yes. so, but i mean, they have ms. silos, they have a w, it's the latest russian e,

w. they have s for hundreds that seem to be able to look on even the spells bancroft. you know, i'm not sure that america would really want to go into that sort of secured s space . even the itself. i mean, they said the question is, who is previous from, hey, can you humble design this project in the region? that's another question here. i don't think, but anyone has an answer for that, chris, it's already been mentioned on this program. it is really very strange story about the trump pollutant telephone call, which apparently never happened. but the way it was reported is very detailed, what they, what they talked about, you know, the militarization of the, of the conflict, the pre appraising of the complex and 800 mile. um, uh, contact line, european troops. so exact, i mean this is a bit more amazing, a lot of detail per a conversation that didn't happen. what do you, how do you like this? what is the design here, chris? a well, it was

a leak by someone to discredit from that's an old story with the whole trump, those russian assets which for 2 years the media find completely on true cars, disapproving by the fbi i in the molar report. but that we're going to see a lot of that. so it's part of the disinformation campaign that there's, there's going back to the old playbook. okay, well, let's do the same thing. i mean, you and you've a, you're a retired diplomat here. i mean, so we have to assume that the people in power right now are, are a, they're out of their, out of the gate and they're doing everything they can to sabotage the next slow president of the united states. donald trump. so that's cool. so, i mean, as chris says, the united states is depo, the rise, and one half of the population would love to set the top trucks initiative.

but i do think, can i go back to this? you know, i know what these road is going to cost because it is true. i'm going to do it. yeah. i don't know where he is going to. he may actually not too. what matt from the how one some thinks he's going to do. because actually my reading all of this is he has a huge agenda that says domestic again, changing the economy completely away from a very lax fisco, the economy to one which is based on tariffs and lower taxes. i mean, it's a huge project to try and reinstate all us and all the laws that of they've gone on about gender about censorship. you know, i, i, this, i think is that's why i'm not sure that he really wants to be completely sort of brought into the mess with nothing yahoo is setting up for himself at the specs because he needs a bit of time to get all this going and get it started and we'll just spend his

time worrying about what's happening in garza room level. but i mean, you know, he is, he will support his rows. of course. well, he'll have 18 months a if he's lucky to get his agenda across the board. that remains to be seen chris, one year from now. what do you think will be saying about the trump administration's foreign policy as well? that is very impulsive try. driven by trumps. very material nature, i just want to throw in the car add to something that allister said it is true that they probably don't want to war with iran, but not it is a by an administration, not it is a panic. there is long and reticence, especially within the panel, gone to a conflict with iran, but facts on the ground, the mat if, if tear on carries out a significant attack and there are significant civilian casualties. we could get

dragged in. but i think that reticence is not only within the trump administration, it's wednesday, within the entire american foreign policy and military establishment. what will we be saying? well, the difference between a 2nd trump administration and a 1st trump administration is that this time is the neo cons or whatever you want to call them. the christian rice, they're ready in a way that they weren't before. there's a preparation for power. of course, the heritage 2020. i don't. i don't know. chris has had a good thing or a bad thing. i mean they gave it, but as i read in, i think it's a bad thing. i that uh, but uh i, i don't think it will be quite as chaotic as the 1st administration in there or probably more effective. well, it's in terms of implementing their agenda. let's just hope gentlemen, thank you for a fascinating discussion and what i think my guess in princeton and in rome. and of

course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r t c a next time. remember, the, [000:00:00;00] the, the, the, the, the bulk of the wall claimed and ruined the lines of tens of thousands. but it was the hague tribunal, with delta finishing flow to the muscle. expand on your side,

i will talk to you and will all of that will cause up the curious thought me memories that the rest of your stuff or some which in the funded thing as me them or just send me the okay of for me is you about to send me to blog that's through the you guys, are that doing any took a soul tie it out loud cousin built around what sort of on teams so so this would eventually go for something to bed. jane stuff says i've done this, your boss, they have to go into stuff. as i said this, so not quit, only nice to cover the problem. also, i noticed with some of the other many places in the world's way to say your on the divide between the 2 oceans . do you mind not think kids? what does this, hey, and what is northern?

i found your vision and that you know that us national park and today we know the was a stuff was i'm taking a deep side interesting beach because of the, the archbishop of canterbury resigns, after investigations found 40 years of serial physical and sexual abuse were ignored by the church of england, the abuser was a volunteer at christian summer camps in the page. the mob. why? and it is suspected south africa. here from one of the survivors, introduced sadistic beating. when i was an old teenager, i'm free my university days, nothing to the point. i mean, they tend to start keeping the low comes into force immediately and 10 as the 1st cases are about to unfold,