so their cooperation moving forward with the night breaks is rising as a competitor in many ways as a aspects to the so called a rules based system that is dominated by me not to face the mere fact, but it is a g closer to our membership and expressing its willingness to joy tells us that the trouble is on the way. and i think uh, the balancing i can, i can, can be managed in the center of secondary importance. but when it comes for issues of the security of the military ass fax, my apologies. as it is called multiple legislature, i think there are limits. we will see a much more problem with this printer in the notes or not just it's moving forward . if this is to continue as a, as a turkish policy. it's a fascinating at time for to politics in that region. thanks so much for helping us

make sense of it. this our house on a monday on west asian studies, assistant professor at the university of true and good to see you. the change is in the air, as we alluded to in washington with a true to point to administration, preparing to take the reins in january. but what will the return of the market republicans meeting for america's foreign policy process debates? next, the the hello and welcome to cross stock were all things are considered on peter lavelle, many of called the recent presidential cycle a change election. this is probably true,

but will this include americans foreign policy? donald trump has a mandate to pursue change. he will have the power to change course when we opt for continuity instead, the cross fucking trump, i'm joined by my guess. chris hedges in princeton. he is a pulitzer prize. winning journalist and author ended rome we cross allister crook . he is a former british diplomat, right, children cross black roles and effect. that means you can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate chris, let me start out with you. but the title of this program is change or continuity. now i think it's largely agree that trump has a mandate, i think like the rest of us were very surprised by the margins. but will this mandate be extended into foreign policy? now we have a lot of ideas about what trump thinks about things. nothing really solid,

i guess that applies to the 1st administration to but recent appointments, potential oppositions in his administration indicate a lot more. continuity to me then change what your thoughts go ahead, chris. it depends on the region of the world. i think visa the ukraine, you will see a reticence on the part of the trumpet administration to continue a funneling weapons to the training and government. and perhaps see some kind of solution of the war. which of course, could have been done before the war, which has an exchange of land for peace. in terms of the middle east, it will be complete continuity, and perhaps even more aggressive nes, remember, trump move the american embassy from tallahassee to jerusalem. he recognized his real sovereignty over the occupied goal on heights. there is a heavy push within the ducting, yahoo government to annex the west bank. certainly nothing will change in gaza.

makes no difference if your palestinian gods or whether it's by them, nor trump, or harris or anyone else. but i think we could see a more aggressive pastor in the west bank is real. of course is applying its genocidal tactics with increasing frequency in the west bank. it is carried out the largest land seizure since october 7th that we've seen in the west bank since the occupation. um, so that would be the difference. uh, i will say this on trump's behalf, another trump supporter, but he doesn't seem to like where the democratic party is clearly the war party in this country. yes, i agree with you. i don't know how he's going to square the circle on that when you're essentially the same question to you. allister and do with the added question at the end, when will trump get tired of dislike the slogan? genocide don, i was suppose to like,

like to say i agree with your cautious bus comes actually we don't know who's going to be in the team. there's a lot of disruptive propaganda going on with many of the neo cons, lobbying and trying to get themselves, either into the transition or into the cabinet. and we've seen that we've completely bogus attempts to say there was a telephone call between trump, but the president potent a just recently. and it was just whole site completely untrue, even though it was in the washington post with those who were privy to the call said this, so that was just true. so i think we have to be a little cautious. but broadly a i agree with what chris hedges just said in that, but i think when it comes to you crate it, it's going to be different from other parts department policy. one reason is

because a really a rush or is in the driving seat on ukraine. i mean, the war is actually one. it's 6 seller a 2. now in that direction. and i think that really there isn't very much a washington couldn't put into the pot if it didn't like if it was and said, for example, no, i'm sorry, i'm no one tennessee spar. i'm wanting a permanent solution and i'm going to go for a permanent solution. so what is working to going to do? i mean it's, it's largely expended all of its possibilities on that. so i think that is easy or a few like i think the most difficult one will be actually with israel because israel, i mean, the festival of president doesn't have as much room for maneuver any president of the us. because as you know, you know, congress is bought law stuck and or

a bite is the lobby and therefore he doesn't have that much room for me. but i think he wants to be a friend of his role. but the consequences of that may be very great. my guess is he probably doesn't want, he probably doesn't want trouble in the middle of the well, i mean, yeah, but allister, does he want to have a biden's legacy when it comes to israel, palestine, i, and, you know, we, we, everybody can have their own thoughts about donald trump, i have my own, but he wants to be loved in light. ok. being called genocide, don is not going to go down very well. let me go back to chris and princeton, chris, i mean, we have what 69 days left of the a by didn't ministration. what's the stop them from escalating when it comes to ukraine? i mean it's there war and, and, and so it will be donald trump's war. go ahead, chris. well, 1st of all, the americans are extremely polarized country and half of the country who's not

neutral about donald trump. uh, they are are less than half full of certainly of the electric, but he's used to being tarred and feathered rhetorically of not just by his opponents, but by mainstream media cnn the new york times where i used to work, etc. so being labeled genocide, don rolls off of him when it comes from that other side of the divide, i think the most dangerous sort of con potential conflagration or is not does, it won't come out of your brain won't come out of the bar. it's me do, i mean they've given crane just about everything you can give them. but i think that the danger it will be a push by net and yahoo to insight a war with a rat. right. and using this interim period, a probably because by and will be walking away to by the administration that i sink

and there is potential, there certainly is nothing yahoo, the government wants a conflict with around the united states, does not want to conflict in iran or with a ran of but if there is a massive attack, we don't know how to err on is going to respond, especially with significant civilian casualties. and as alice to correctly points out to us, congress has been bought and paid for by the israel lobby. and then i think that's, that's a bigger danger than anything happening and you crank, well, i mean there is a reason, right? let's go go to allister, now, in rome. i mean, the reason why i bring up the escalation is that escalation, in both of these crisis areas, ukraine and israel, palestine created basically what, what they, by the administration. it's waiting days. we want to do is create political facts on the ground, essentially delivering their foreign policy to donald trump in his beam with even fewer options. allister as well what? yes, it can be escalation, ukraine,

but i think that will be managed by most go quite adequately. the middle east is different. it's much more dangerous and it could easily settle something. my try to just to be clear on the z is riley government expects. and this are students full from to accept the i makes ation moves of westbank garza and they've sent and i busted uh to the united states who is the set to a zealous and who's been living in hebron going south is quite kid. and people like small traits think it's a done deal, but the main thing, it's that i think the what you could easily see for ms. route would be them to declare victory and 11, and then garza and then say to trump, now we need you to come and support us in attack on me wrong. and that's why i think you're going to see in this period a had the wrong the is going to attack israel 1st,

and iran is going to do that because the most important thing now, because it's really for writing the same path we saw with, with, with earlier with, with ukraine where the west says, oh, russia its own, it's nice, it's troops are not trained, they don't even have food. they've got no, i me a nation that come on this terrible. and they say no, the same about iraq. iran, we just destroyed all of its uh, defenses. we got them experience ability to make ms. so it's really no they should before us we go in where we like nothing could be further from the truth. and in fact, best tend to take out the defense is, was a complete failure. they have not damage any of the what they call the mixes. those mixes were moved during this hot told me these periods is president into the big

mountains. they're immune from that. so i, i, it's all being set up for the idea of the america that can be pulled in to the school. and i think this is going to be dangerous. and which is why, or iran needs to establish just as russia and get to the united states, that it is military capable. it has real, the parents. it has the ability to hook israel very seriously and body. if you want to go down and prove, they've tried to show it twice. i'm still a narrative. tons wrong and goes the other one. 0 no. iran is just lying naked before us. now's the time we can destroy the new, the new kid capacity that's known since they wouldn't have that. and they might turn out to be a very ugly engagement indeed. but i think there is a prospect that we might get pulled into that because yes, i think there is support in the united states and support even

amongst those that he seems to be nominated. thing to is the team for a war with iraq. it seems that there is a faction in washington that once a will well to richard himself, chris, i want to ask you the same thing, but in the 2nd part of the program, but it has always, it looks like personnel is policy. can you quickly comment on that before we go to the break? yeah, i'll allister is right. he is bringing in these rabid, neo cons who have long lusted for a conflict with air ran um and uh and i, and i would uh, 2nd, dallas sters warning this potential interim period is extremely dangerous because they, uh, essentially, by the time if a war began with a ran a trumpet inherited, there's not much, well, that would be the best. that would be the very point. that's the strategy. i'm here

gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on terms foreign policy stay with our team. the one year ended up to attempt to collect a group of extra ma, apache sat there for the show event. it will be a job to love for the cause of it is uh excuse us, for the defense of the supplement is setup button and not to mention it. i thought someone did you lose? it asked who i think if i see the media and that'll be focused on the 2 reasons, could you say, would you say that you need to be each of us to be presented as for the money? i'm going to work it on stimulus the industry that will what's money will funnel sales really left? so should william farmer shots might give us who we have called gosh,

door to door or decision to my name. and what was that man was, what was that ridiculous? on the what is the best of them one today and but you know, so that's what it is that you want to set. i'm sure those are pretty short journals on patient data for she's getting those are the best do what i mean? there's a push out the so many places in the world's way to say on the divide between the 2 oceans and the you might not think kids. what does this hay in which is northern or found guest vision. and the key knows that us national park and today's, we know the stuff was i'm taking a deep side, interesting beach because of the welcome back across stock. were all things are considered on peter la belcher mind you were discussing the potential trump foreign policy?

the, let's go back to chris and prince and i'd like you to follow up on what else are had to say about the potential of a regional, a glaring up at the conflict in west asia, in the greater middle east of whoever you want to describe it but it seems to me that this is a way, as alice are described as a way to trip that bite. i'm sorry, the new trump administration into having a continuity of policy and not allowing him to have very many choices here. and then also comment is that the strategy of bringing of having a comp like israel, initiating a conflict with around also is an indirect, a conflict with russia. and that is something they abide. ministration will certainly want to continue to test. go ahead, chris. yes, i mean, allister of reiterated the kind of arguments that are used to go after iran. we heard those arguments to justify the same kinds of arguments to justify the

invasion and occupation the rack, which did not go particularly well for the united states. indeed was catastrophic. like afghanistan and syria and libya and everything else. um, the fact is the air defenses of around uh, some of which are russians, some of which are chinese are quite good. uh, the rainy and air force is quite decrepit. many of its more planes, the date back to the shop. but the air defenses are good and uh, the israelis want the united states to take out the air defenses because they don't want to take the losses. uh, it would obviously start out as an aerial campaign. wherever we go from there. i don't know if it doesn't go well, there would be pressure to put troops on the ground logistically. how would that happen? again? i can see it coming in through your rack. maybe they can plow their way through the siri of those would not be as rarely, troops, by the way, i mean there are just so many potentials. i mean, you know,

the ability to speak an aircraft carrier, other is very possible. that's 5000 us lives. so the, this, i mean, i covered war for 20 years and once you open that pandora's box, it controls you, you don't control it. so yes, this is a very dangerous moment. i don't think it would go well for the united states at all, but it would be another war of attrition. we have to look also. 11 on things are not going well for the israelis and 11 on reports of over 4000 casualties out of 11 on hawaii. um and they have not moved or they, they've, they've, they've been stymied of course their responses, but their response always is which is satcher ition bombing out and just to go back to something allister mentioned, which i left out. that's important news that yes, they want to annex the west bank, but they also want to annex gaza. they largely are achieving that in northern gaza

. they want to create a humanitarian crisis. that is a such catastrophic proportions in southern guy, the guy that they believe the israel isn't that will put pressure on the international community to essentially de populate or asked equally plans, southern guns. so that's the plan. i don't know whether it's going to work. i've just been an egypt. it's so my understanding is the judge in military has made it very clear the presidency saying that there will be no palestinians in the sign i as is real, would like and as, as our secretary of state and to the blinking proposed to the c. c. government, the inter damian's have moved their troops up to the borders of the west bank because again, an anticipation of a massive ethnic cleansing campaign to push the palestinians into jordan as a very, very volatile moments. um and i, i, i'm not as worried about the frame because honestly, i don't see what else the united states can do for you. yes, you have

a tax we've in russia itself. um, but i think the volatile area right now is the middle east. so i, i agree with you completely, but, you know, but my thesis has always been, it's, it's, is nato willing to give up. it's not necessarily a r u. s. president, or whoever is in power in cab. so i think that still remains to be a wild card, but i obviously agree with the what's going on in the middle east is much more volatile. i was sure that, you know, considering our conversation here and then we're looking at an administration going out and a new one coming in. but considering we've already said here, doesn't really matter who the president of united states is as well. yes, i think the, because i do say is the would be a possibility festival, the what, when, when it started launched its attack, which is great time. so you know, they want to know what's in the middle. come as

a huge surprise, they'll be show and then fact there, uh, cross level versus 70 kilometers to the uranium space. and then we saw and we heard on the hebrew channels, they said, you know, some things going on, weeks problem that we're facing air defenses that are on know and unexpected. and yet they will probably the s 400, which was actually looking on even to the spells f, 35. so at 70 kilometers away from the aerospace salvation they, they collab step and they came home. second, the 2nd wave, which was supposed to follow the destruction of the defenses would come in and bought things heavily. it was canceled and pulled back. so i just wanted to say that, um, but i think, you know, so it's the same thing with, with, in the way with russian. iran has been under siege, been attacked,

has been sanction being threatened with bombings for, since really the, you know, kind of the c c 6 years ago. and you know, it's only going to come to some form of settlement when we understand that iran has military capabilities that are serious and capable of establishing a power to within the region. and that we talk to them as if you like someone on the top and someone who deserves respect and then uses both game and how, how was clear, how do we get there? i mean, you've already said both of you who've already said, well, you know, you, capitol hill is, is, is really occupied territory. i mean, i agree, you're absolutely right. that's the way to go. but how do we get there? what i think you're going to see, because i think what's going to come fairly shortly is a, in

a much more demonstrative attack on israel by iran, which will really, i mean, i think, you know, anyone off to this will not really beasley, they know that they have to actually come and get the west to accept that they have really the parents. it's not the cross that i agree with per say. yes. so, but i mean, they have missiles, they have a w, it's the latest russian e, w. they have s for hundreds that seem to be able to look on even the spells bancroft. you know, i'm not sure that america would really want to go into that sort of secured s space . even the itself, may they be? the question is, who is pollutants from? hey, can you humble design this project in the region? that's another question here. i don't think, but anyone has an answer for that. chris, it's already been mentioned on this program is really it's very strange story about

the trump put in telephone call, which apparently never happened. but the way it was reported is very detailed what they, what they talked about, you know, the militarization of the conflict, the pre freezing of the conflict and 800 mile. um, uh, contact line, european troops to exec. i mean, this is a bit more image. amazing, a lot of detail for a conversation that didn't happen. what do you, how do you like this? what is the design here, chris? a well, it was a leak by someone to discredit from that's an old story. with the whole trump, those russian assets which for 2 years the media saw completely improve cars, disapprove in by the fbi i in the molar report. but that we're going to see a lot of that. so it's part of the disinformation campaign. uh that, uh there's, there's going back to the old playbook. okay, well,

let's do the same thing. i mean, you and give a, you're a retired diplomat here. i mean, so we have to assume that the people in power right now are, are a, they're out of their, out of the gate and they're doing everything they can to sabotage the next slow president of united states. donald trump. so that's cool. so, i mean, as chris said, the united states is depo, the rise and one half of the population would love to sabotage drugs initiative. but i do think, can i go back to this, you know, i know what he's riley is going to ask of him. but is trump going to do it? yeah, i don't know where he is going to. he may actually not to what the hell ones, some things he's going to do. because actually my reading all of this is he has a huge agenda that says domestic agenda, changing the economy completely away from a very and likes this quote,

the economy to one which is based on the terrace and lower taxes. i mean, it's a huge project to try and reinstate all us and all the laws that haven't gone on about gender about censorship. you know, i, i, this, i think is that's why i'm not sure that he really wants to be completely sort of brought into the mess with nothing yahoo is setting up for himself at the specs because he needs a bit of time to get all this going and get it started and we'll just spend his time worrying about what's happening in gauze. i run level, but i mean, you know, he is. he will support his road. of course. well, he'll have 18 months to if he's lucky to get his agenda across the board, that remains to be seen chris, one year from now. what do you think will be saying about the trump administration's foreign policy as well? the, it's very impulsive tried and driven by trumps. very material nature. i just want

to throw in the car, add to something that allister said it is true that they probably don't want to war with a ram, but not as a buying the ministration. not it is a panic. there is long been reticence, especially within the panel, gone to a conflict with iran, but facts on the ground mat if, if tear on carries out a significant attack and there are significant civilian casualties. we could get dragged in, but i think that reticence is not only within the trump administration, it's wednesday, within the entire american foreign policy in military establishment. what will we be saying? well, the difference between a 2nd trump administration and a 1st trump administration is that this time is the neo cons or whatever you want to call them. the christian rice, they're ready in

a way that they weren't before. there's a preparation for power. of course the heritage 2020 i don't. i don't know it. grace is that a good thing or a bad thing? i mean they gave it, but as i read it in i think it's a bad thing. i that uh, but uh i, i don't think it will be quite as chaotic as the 1st administration in there or probably more effective, but it's in terms of implementing their agenda. let's just hope gentlemen, thank you for a fascinating discussion and what i think my g as in princeton and in rome. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at our to see you next time . remember, the, [000:00:00;00] the,

the, the bulk of the wall claimed and ruined the lines of tens of thousands, but it was the hague tribunal, with delta finishing flow to the subs. must on expand on. yeah, it was that i will talk to you and will all of that will cause up the curious thought me memories that the rest of your stuff or some of the funding that has made them, i guess i need. okay. i will need you about you. so mutual blood that's through you guys are throwing in eco so tired out table. i'll a cousin built around what sort of on team so so this would be a vision to for something to bid. jane stuff says i've done this for to boss they have to go, they need to be stuff as ice, that they're so not quit only nice to the problem. also i noticed with some of

the the, the headline story vis or the opponents of president officially opens a us base in the country. admitting the, even though it was originally and always does it the turn to against the run. it will actually focus on russia and from that point, the whole world is going to see that we are not in the russian sphere of influence any longer. the americans may then supply. bradley input reprising vehicles sliced clean through exclusive footage from our t senior correspondent of the ukraine conflict front lines as keon sports is