in german netanyahu's policy is mortifying clinic visual center. today we have violations of international law that were pronounced not by us. foot by global organizations, such as the international court of justice. and the international criminal court in the special committee of the united nations has ruled that the methods used by the israeli army were equivalent to genocide. and despite this, the international community, at least its leaders are not taking any action. they both serve the developments and then of itself is concerned about what's more concerning as far as the rhetoric that is being issued by lawmakers. as we understand, the mayor of amsterdam issued a 12 page report highlighting the instances in which the unrest started and also cited a number of cases of. i'm just american rhetoric that was used by pro palestinian supporters. but we also understand that the report and of course seems to refer to any sentiments or rhetoric issued by protesters as symmetric essentially in line with the rhetoric use binding is really government to them. that in and of itself has attracted a great deal of criticism. because even the people here in paris are essentially

arguing for the same thing, that's the willing to ensure that the 2 state solution is implemented or a free power side is implemented is not necessarily just the dream, but it's matter of law. but the one thing that does remain a constant is the people of paris. for example, i pretty said person, the position of the supports wasn't thomas sitting across the the 2nd annual russia china economic forum is underway in the city of design and formerly called rust key, which translates to sprouts and english, the gathering games to develop a trade and economic ties and to build a transparent partnership between moscow and bathing. we spoke with the chinese chamber of commerce official who told us more about the bilateral relationship that promotes industry and innovative products on the move. so us rush, he's not on the neighbor and the french was also a strategic partner and an important market as a trading partner. that is why all chemba has been around since the beginning of

the 20th century. first of all, we create a russian chinese gen before joined trade in machine building and the normative products with the russian union of industrial independence. i think that the scale of the forum will definitely become larger, broader and wide to every year. the topics of the petal sessions will also become more relevant and pick the interest of chinese and russian businesses. the knowledge of contracts signed year in the for them is also constantly increasing their stay with us here on our to international have next on cross talk here lavelle and his guest discuss whether president likes trump can keep his promise to end the crane conflict. given washington and moscow's radically different ideas about peace and security by the mother of many places in the world where you can stay on the divide between the 2 oceans and all the might not think kids. one of them is hey, english is northern,

our phone goes vision and the 2 knows that us national park. and today's we know the stuff was taking a deep side into some beach because system, the hello and welcome to cross talk. were all things are considered on peter lavelle? kennedy trump said he would in the ukraine conflict in 24 hours. well, he's now president elect time to keep that promise. the problem is washington in moscow have radically different ideas about peace and security. the

cross section ukraine, i'm joined by my guess. karen field ca steve in mound jackson. she is a retired us air force. lieutenant colonel, having served at both n s a and the office of the secretary of defense in london. we have in proud he is a senior british diplomat, an officer of misfits in moscow. how british diplomacy and russian failed and killed him. we crossed the passcode no tests. he is an associate professor at the auto university or across lock roles in effect. that means you can jump any time you want, and i always appreciate before we talk about a, a suppose. suppose a trump piece plan, i'd like to get your reaction from all 3 of you about the recent spouse of appointments that trump is going to bring into his administration. karen, i mean i know that, you know, it, could you some people like coke, some people like pepsi, but it's still colla and then that's my feeling here. karen? yeah, it really is. i mean, he's got a mix of neil kinds that we recognize extremely pro israel appointments and then combine with that. he has some of the uh, people like tulsa gabbert, who have been,

uh, tremendous. uh, critics of what's been going on for the past couple of decades. so we have a mix. okay, and how about you? because, i mean, one could say this is all by design. is that um, they'll be a lot of in fighting. maybe that's what trump wants. no one will have to gemini, they'll all have to look to him as the mediator. i mean, you've been in a bureaucracies before what you read on this. well, the obvious conclusion of joint is that jumps the tensions by much study tools and what's happening in the middle east, and also what's happening in china and taiwan. and that full focus on, on ukraine and support for the boy. for there is going to be on the city to kind much as he said in, in his election campaign. and i'm house go, i mean it's a, he's, it's stress during the campaign and even is victory speech. with that, he's a man that he wants to create peace and wars with this, with this lot coming in here. they don't seem very piece driven to me, pasco,

you know, and i agree and tend. is owens one of those famous news anchors in the us. she already put out an emergency message to trumps saying like you are being subverted by the, the, the less or no neil collins in, in, in the us. and that's what's happening. so instead of having your cons that are focused on the u. s. ukraine more, you have new york homes were focused on eat on and on china. and apparently these are the people that he will appoint and i don't know whether he knows about that or not. but it seems that john mir timers, prediction is coming true that the blog always wins out. it has to be on it. it's, it would seem to be the case here. and you can change the president. but the hedge a monic tendencies are almost impossible to reverse. ok, let's talk about peace plans here. karen is all stairs leaks all over the place. are rumors about what a trump may propose?

i don't think he has a clue of what he wants to do. so, but there seems to be a lot of people, i'm thinking about this vague telephone call between trump and put, and there's trying to divert our attention or make us assume about certain pro uh, dynamics of deal with the the can be no deal if there is no common understanding about security, and that's the crux of the problem here. karen? yeah, that's true. but the common understanding of the ukraine situation, he does have some people in place of that get that certainly. i mentioned kelsey gavin, but jamie vance also gets it very well. he's following ukraine, so i understand it's trump delegates to some of these people to push ukraine off of his uh, front burner, which is what he intends to do. then we are going to see compromise, we're going to see cox communications, and it's going to be based on what actually happened. so i'm hopeful in that regard . but as you said, with the term,

the neil con attitude towards china. in the middle east, we see this for assistance, but i will say this, the d. c establishment is in raged. they are enraged and they are frightened and that is going to be a good sign. it. but i think in the, the, the talk is it's focusing on a ceasefire. now i could understand what, why the ukrainians would want that they are losing. um, i could understand how washington feels that way because that will give them a breather. but that a ceasefire simply is not in the cards, but it all of the pungent tree on cable tv is talking about a ceasefire. this is done intentionally. it's trying to determine the, the parameters of what some tops could be, which is a non starter for moscow. in well that's likely has to stop and tonight has to be able to see 5 years back. see what it needs to be. is it an actual kind of plan for

delivery of piece. now let me freaking spoken about getting back to the most 2022 is simple agreement. that seems to be a good place to negotiations stop. but, but this pause that places of, of actually having a piece plan. and the funding does actually need to him, because as you say, ukraine is losing on the battlefield. so i think i see that the 2 on mutually exclusive points and stuff. but also that does need to be a long term plan that needs to be nice. bush's critical national security interests . you know, the final big thing with a whole kind of nature issue is a big goal. and another key area for discussion is what happens with sanctions as a piece plan impulse plus go again. when i look at um, um, uh inside or uh, inside baseball form policy, they were actually there all kinds of gravitating to a new minsk agreement, which means one and 2 failed because the western powers failed to fulfill it. russia is not going to buy a mince 3. know, and russia shouldn't buy,

it means 3. but at the same time, russia still has an interest to find some sort of way out. because the danger right now is that russia might win the war, but lose the peace. i'm not losing the piece, not losing. what comes next has to be top priority. and unless russia is willing to swallow ukraine whole, which would include the entire western part of ukraine, which would be a ploy using the dispute. that would be a really, really difficult thing to, to, to achieve are impossible. so there needs to be a settlement, a piece of paper that is signed by everybody in order to get to the next stage, which implies that they need to be negotiations, which implies that something's got to get from the side of nato, but also from the side of russia, and that's going to be very tough on russia, i believe because they are there is going to be hard bargaining still involved

unless you want to go for old out occupation. yeah, i, i hear you. i don't think the incomplete occupation of ukraine has ever been in the cards. i mean, that would be this something untenable. anyway, it would, it wouldn't be garner any benefits for russian in the short or long term. karen, one of the, one of the industries here also is a, can russia trust these to the next administration? i mean, under trump, i mean, trump was a russian agency, the hoax. but i mean, trump was hard to run russia than any other american president domain. where's the trust and i want to ask in that because he's a former diplomat. go ahead current. yeah, there's, well, there's no trust and the idea of mints is course was really and because the guarantor was germany, which admitted admitted that this whole thing was a hoax. to begin with, so there's no trust. i don't think any nato countries could really be trusted to oversee this. and the truck administration is by it's very nature,

it's kind of reactive. it's kind of a, it's, it's not complete really clear where it's going. it is not necessarily trustworthy in terms of the so who is going to help bring these place. these 2 countries together bring, you know, your crane and rush it together. and the other thing is having to deal with, you know, for a long time. zalinski said i will not deal with code now will never deal with boot . and, and now zaleski isn't even a legitimate leader anymore. you know, he's an effective dictator and no country can effectively negotiate with that guy because he is, he doesn't have legitimacy. legal legitimacy as a, a, as a, as a leader. so with big problems that i think one of the things they'll look at is, um, will zalinski be replaced with someone that can trust some agency and can come to some sort of settlement. same question to you and i mean the level of trust that is the that's through the 1st step to the 1st hurdle as it were here. so i can tell you that the, that level of trust go from here looking at the west. it's 0. i mean,

you, you got to make b a d o, you've got it, you've got, you guys have to come up with something that could be credible because your, your, your, your record is deplorable. and that's subjectively true. it's just not my opinion go ahead in, you know, i agree and i see back in 24 team. so things got very, very by the contacts in front of mind. even of us in presidential administration. she told me that actually all the trusted gone and it will take a decade to the store trust. and that was in 2014. so the minus sign to take it to kind of really, but still trust on both sides and take it on the bus inside the united, trusting us, and vice versa. that will be right on time coming. chinese have post bmo, but we still have to deal with each other in the here. and now if i came by briefly on the mysql agreements, i slide a kind of a take a different view from count haven't being a place in personal tools. i think he's a little time on midst minutes to agreement, fall apart because the americans and the british didn't wanted work. and actually

that they really kind of conspire to kind of put sanctions in place and make minsk supported to the sections policy effectively making sanctions against which repugnant in the us government was never invested in minutes. consent was invested in showing the minutes, you know, to failed. and that's indeed what happened. i think, well, you know that, that voice maternity different now is it, if the us administration gets find some sort of need piece plan that would be great to a level of investments in it when it comes to actual trust. yes, you want that to relations between washington us collapsed during the previous jump administration in width and supplies to ukraine, undermining the notice came to pipeline. that sort of things that some of talked about on the campaign trail. but that as long as you down to the dynamics on the hill in dc itself, actually trump did have a pool with peyton evidence, right? one of these difficult times met and spoke with peyton. and there was a level of a pool and trust with this multi between the 2 of them,

which means that they can actually trade and discuss and company and they were waiting. wait a little bit right now and i'll stay with them before we go to the break here. i mean, neck and diplomacy was criminalized under bite and how do we get away from that as well? you know, i, you 100 percent agree with you. i mean, by never spoke to prison once you know the foot from the point of the, the little salting i see the pregnancy is basically criminalized on the, on the case side as well. that has been for over that day. yeah. but actually will people advise and trump the site and use that? you know, we have to engage, we have to, to know trump the site and he has good but actually pretty well, well say well today i'm ready to go. so that say, all right, i have to jump in here. we're going to go to a hard break. and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on ukraine. stay with the the

unit i would say, just to save house and engagement equals the trails. when so many fund themselves will depart. we choose to look so common ground the the

the welcome back across stock. were all things are considered on peter la belcher? mind you were discussing, you create the okay, let's go back to passcode, kyoto one of the things that worries me in this interim period here. and obviously impacts would be what's going on in ukraine, but also in the greater middle east, the issue of escalation. so i've asked around, it seems to be a split decision. i tend to think that the vitamin ministration will escalate before trump could come in to de escalate. if that is a, if that does this plan here. but escalation can create political facts on the ground that the next administration just has to inherit. and,

and i think we saw how obama tripped up trump when he was coming into office in 2017. i don't know why i'm biting. wouldn't want to trump up a trip up trump uh before january. go ahead passcode. i'm a little bit less worried about that one because by now it seems as if, though, the pentagon puts a hard stop on the idea of strikes a inside of 3 people. the 2022 russian territory, and that it does depend to go on that actually calls the shots on these decisions. damage. that's got plastic. oh, does that apply to the british and the french and the other is a nato. i, i and i see that this is an option that could happen, but i honestly think that if the american say don't do it, they won't because they are on the shore. they are on the lease. so, and it's only 2 months from now, even the germans will have like these,

these elections coming up and mr. merits, who might call me, and he even need for his closest date to do anything is like february or march. i think it's to little time to do anything that's stupid, although maybe i'm on the rest of the view. it definitely under estimating. definitely. i think so. who knows? maybe we'll have a november surprise or a december just surprise to and i have an idea. and you know, cuz i, i obviously want this conflict and because it's conflict never should have started in the 1st place that were so many ways to avoid it. and i want to ask all 3 of you this. what about another helsinki? 2 point. oh and then pan european security approach. and so, and so instead of just focusing on ukraine, you focus on the entire picture. and by doing that, you can solve that problem. that's in the center of it all. i know what sam dishes . if i told donald trump this, he probably would go for it because he get

a nobel prize. but this is the only way for because this is the only way to where everybody gets the terms and conditions of security. everybody lines that up the rest of it can a follow go ahead parent. yeah, i mean, that's a great idea. that is a wonderful idea, but the problem we have is nato. well, that's really about, that's their problem. okay. my opinion, go ahead. yeah. it's, um, no, it's, it's a good idea. but when you mentioned nobel prizes you have to remember obama also got one. well that's so that's why trump ones one. okay. oh good point. good point . well in let me throw that to you. i mean your, your experience diplomat. i mean, is it, that's, it's a bull's idea. um, a lot of moving pieces here, but the goal was very specific. security for everyone. and i think that's the best way to approach this. go ahead in yeah, because the problem is the both the opinion and the nice

a grouping of deposited from that kind of why to multilateralism actually and you see what's happening in ukraine producer in the middle east is representative of the type of diplomacy and phone policy which western pads want to pick sides in the conflict between one side and the other side that is completely incompatible with some a wide and multinational a page with the security that'd be say, as individuals. and so, unless you can kind of break that central kind of by that to listen to it actually isn't. which kind of dominates the way they say one way you kind of phone policy is that you wouldn't be able to kind of get to that point. and in any case, you know, that is being overtaken by what's happening to, for example, the bricks mean, where they are actually leading that, that debate, you know, gone, uh, you know, security can a bit lodge in the absence of engagement with some pounds. well, pass, go again helsinki to fully know what's wrong with that idea. i karen's absolutely

iraq. it is. the nato wouldn't like it, but because of nato, we have this conflict in ukraine and, and so that has to be dealt with here. but if you are approaching the bigger picture may be the way forward in a face saving for everyone involved. absolutely, i mean, you're totally right now, so i get 2 point. oh is exactly what we need. but the, the side matter of the fact is that the people in charge at the moment that leads in the european capitals and in washington don't want that. i'm not sure about the washington anymore because the change might actually, trump in bands might want to go for that, but i'm not sure to block those the, the, the thing is that a neutral you, craig would have been to help. thank you to point out the thing is that in december 2021 rush, i asked for help and get 2 point. oh with it's draft reduce that he'd send over. it ross has asked the time and again to create a call, a common security structure and time and again was rebuffed and it is, it's really,

really horrible. but if you look at it into terms of the cold war, we always had ups and downs where people were like more willing to actually do common, mutually beneficial agreements and less times. and right now we're in the time where they are less likely to do that. because right now the europeans are not able to think off a mutually beneficial solution. they think that anything that is good for russia is necessarily bad for us and anything good for us. and that must be bad for us that they are for there is no common ground. it is, that's stupid. but unfortunately, we're in that kind of mindset. unless we get out of that mindset, there's not going to be a win win solution which we need, which helsinki to put no or would well care. the indivisibility of security was a term that was used quite often during the cold war. that was the very basis of the helsinki process. i could remember, well, after the, after the special military operation started a rush, it was a good, it's

a guy talking about the individual ability and security and the us state department acted like it and never heard the term. they probably had the uh, yeah. are we haven't had a diplomat in the, in the american government for some time, then i guess we won't have one for a while to keep going. yeah, no, i mean if we're, if it's true that they're putting rubio and as the secretary state, i don't know if that's true or not, but yeah that, that means that it won't go back to trump is trump want something he'll, he'll try to negotiate it if it's not clear what trump really, you know, trump thinks in the same terms that we're talking about today. but another issue you have to look at is the money. you know, ukraine has been don't for money. and many people who've been profiting from this for yvonne this and you know, us, but also your pin comp companies and other other states that are close by and um, you know, they have uh uh that money is drying up the words ending. there's not enough

ukrainians left to die. we've pretty much this project test destroyed the people of ukraine. so the investment potential is really drying up rapidly. and the money people who really drive both the new kinds and the other, the rest of government, which i'm not sure how much is left after the new kinds. but whatever we have this government's driven by money, it's driven by the big investors. and what they hope to get from something so that they are going to, they're going to be a factor here that we're not talking about, which is going to accelerate the decision to stop this thing. there's no financial benefit to continuing it and that that sounds very cold because there's all the dead people, all the destruction of the environment, but just the terrible, there's the refuge problem, everything, all of this driven by the money people in many ways. well, you know, let me go to in here. i mean, is a war is awful, obviously here,

but what has been done to ukraine is a crime because this shouldn't have happened this. there were ways around this. ok . this was a complex that was wanted by washington, i would say, by london as well, because of their misperceptions of, of russia's abilities and whatnot here. but even is they think about any kind of a piece plan. ukraine doesn't really play a big role in it. and that's, again, it's really quite pathetic. go ahead in yeah, he kinda is becoming ahold of that come out of the state of this become most of the deep populated over button with huge amounts of debt despite the kind of billions and so. so you can see a, you know, from the west, and it's becoming like an empty, a dysfunctional, a shell, and the failed state, as well as the western pascal and, you know, it is normal. they increase and you focus on the kind of domestic concerns. you know, has, in fact does have options. so you know, the needs of people, bailey, to have separate from this. all you training people in to be in the big scheme of

things. and if you really care about the cranes fee due to a choices, then the best way to do that will be to end the will. it's most jump this point to do well, a pasco, considering the potential, we don't, you know, none of these people have power now, but the names that are being bandied about the will you think that there will be a big struggle within the trump administration and how to move forward or maybe, you know, trump says he has an idea, it was a good campaign slogan as policy. now it, you know, it's brunch time here. but i mean, with the collective wisdom, if these people have any wisdom at all, is that what he's going to rely upon? and that's very good. people are good analysts in this administration. now. i mean, chevy vans has proven time. and again, with his, with his talks and with his book that he actually has some clue of what is going on to see gabbert and others have done so too. but as in every administration,

you're going to have different a variety of opinion. and unfortunately, right now what we're seeing is that means in terms of pointing more to more people we know learned, you know, comes, we know, are into zeros on game kind of thinking. and they are, they are unfortunately now probably going to be a majority and they can, they can count on having people in the back who think like them as well in the, in the bureaucracy. and unless that changes, unless the, the, the, the, the reasonable people can override those guys, i see that the current way forward is going to have a harder time of going forward. and maybe you're going to have a, maybe you're going to see some change when it comes to ukraine. that's the biggest chance for change, but not for a year on is not for china. this one is going to probably continue that the, the, the, the titanic is going to continue to drive to work that iceberg when it comes to these 2, which is sad. yeah. care. and yeah, do you think that this time,

next year we'll be talking about a trans piece plan i would like to think that has already been implemented and that where is over, you know, it occurs to me to, with the way that trump is putting his appointments forward the really smart people that he is putting in to the various positions are not new kinds and the really stupid people. and i think i'm being objective here, the stupid people brovio. okay, not to break of the of some of these others is the guy they're putting in for the d o. d, i'm not very experience. very reactive. not exceptionally bright. so these guys are fodder to be fired. well can i, i wake and we can, and we can add down this note. i mean personnel is policy. after all, we'll see how it unfolds here. the good thing is people are talking about ending the war. that's good. okay. i want to thank my guest in london, kyoto, and in mount jackson. and of course, i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at ortiz, the next time remember prospect.

the . the breaking news has at least 12 rescue workers are reported, killed in and is rarely for icon a lebanese civil defense center. also, i have newly revealed documents claim a cocktail of us agencies that funded the cambodian oppositions attempting to overthrow the current government and install or pro washington liter are $26.00 exclusively to the journalist. you broke the story, the investigation there has been turned off, maybe come what in the color piece as to that. so these are very similar to the being targeted by people who are sitting outside the movie. they would be send us the.