the, are you ready to come along the hello and welcome to well to part global politics has never been particularly orderly, unpredictable, but they recent american elections and their aftermath are likely to add even more ramsey to the already boiling geo political caltrans. as the united states gears up for another 4 years of the polarization of home count, the rest of the world drove closer. if nothing else than to protect itself from the outburst of the aging had jasmine of the discount that i'm now joined by our vin group to director of the visa canada to national foundation in new delhi. mr.

goofed, it's great to see her again. thank you very much for your time. now, you wrote recently the colors of the world and particularly our continental, if you raise your have to prepare themselves for a flurry of blacks. one events in the coming months, given that we are recording this interview on the 1st morning after the american elections with donald trump already being announced as the 47th president of the united states. do you seeing one of those big dark birds has already landed? yes, i think uh uh the warranty tuition is january 1st and we do have a new and musician, and i just had uh, the countries bought it nice. so we expect some uh major changes in the us and musicians policies. there are 2 amazing awards which are going on at the word we'd have to see how the, the dump, but we station would react to that. then, of course, that to major job problems that were terms of climate change. for instance,

drums earlier was the not in favor of the better. so you mentioned that you and we are going to have a call for $29.00 uh, within a few days in uh, a buckle. major decisions unexpected that so the american uh no position would be very important uh in the context of climate change. then of course, a decent dyed word of you're seeing the a global economic situation is also very precarious. several the know sanctions have been imposed. sanctions have been recognized, the international financial system has been recognized, and this has good, huge total interest in the world in the past. and that needs to be for the, the instabilities. so we'd have to see how they knew invitation to the actions that they might relate to. them also is in limbo right now. it's in, i'm in, i'm talking to you in the system whether they wouldn't be submitting to restore that. so as a, as i said,

aging has him on the has some responsibility to keep them. i'm bringing some order to the board. oh, they claimed as responsibility or rather they claim that the power status, but i'm not sure they're putting a lot of effort into that. and then i also want to ask you about the in this specific position, because i heard some of your indian colleagues say that is one of the very few countries in the world that doesn't really care whether it's come to a harris or donald trump, who moves into the white house because new dallas will continue having a more or less golf course. have a relationship with washington. but i wonder if the us the more hostile us both to visit the other countries would still affect in the i'll be than directly. as i think the assessment is based on the fact that was the last 20 years. they had been different organizations in the us and by and large, the trajectory over into us finishing ship has been upward. so it's in that context

that people are saying that perhaps there is a fairly deep relationship between india and the us. so that might continue. but now within this up the, the specific issues on holidays reacted to job. these are really important and left to see. so one cannot be a to sanguine as to what the particular relationship most. but yes, so there is a foundation and i want to experience of the last decision beginning with trump was the go to it was not about so enough to see how jump. $2.00 ships up hang was special about india is that it has been able, one of the very few countries that has been able to benefit from the animosity between russia and the west, both economically in terms of lower energy prices and also politically because i think both russian, the west are still, you know, speaking uh good relationship with your country and that allows you more visibility and more influence on the international stage. do you think that's

a special case or do you think india has indeed invented some sort of the recipe of turning your political landlines into the lemonade? no, i didn't. i don't think there's anything really good, especially not a functioning is simply because india has gone into as a geopolitical location, which is very important. what's most important, i think it is the growth of the indian economy today. it is the, the 5th largest, the economy, and the word, and very soon i think within a few months, perhaps it would be a total of just economy the work plus the fact that the indian policy has been, uh, you know, dictated by is the defensive to want uh, what's the com for instance, was the, the team of the, our sync team of 220, which means the word is one. and the in there does believe in that. so the indian, uh, the position has been, uh that of, uh uh,

in judgment. particularly in the last 10 years or so. uh, what engagements uh, with all the parts of the world is all the countries have increased and more important. i think india has to do something to contribute. it's not simply a kicker, it is a, by the off it's development and experience by the office that you mentioned in the they're saying that digital space today in the, is a bu, a, is in a position to share a lot with the work and the doing for instance, and the go with the pin demick of and the best in countries in the developed countries were holding vaccines and deal with shifting vaccines and they point, okay. so in debt by its actions by inc and host engagement. i think up the has the kind of shown that the engagement of india is not in a good for us, but also good for the work. let me bring in one more extra, which is china. because over the last couple of months we have seen some uh,

normalization uh, stuffs between new dell in beijing, the official side, the 75 percent of the all standing border issues have been result. do you think the impetus to solve the remaining problems is higher or lower? now the trump is an office and what could the sort of more harmonious relationship between china and in the mean for the region and for the world at large the, the, the, the has a little bit come uh this, uh, the, the border it can make but i must say that this is it of an limited in nature. the indo china border issue is very complex. it is still under his old this for nature to only very small part of the border and are related to some incident which took place on the board of the 2020. and to do what i feel what they call the fiction point. i know we have a resort and they were, the patrolling had stopped and there was some agreement between and during turn up

going back to ninety's when ninety's that was the kind of for a while. now i think we are distorting that and some kind of a normal trimming of where to begin. so it's really the 1st of that, but didn't digest issue off and go to a nevada, extend the answer to what we hope that this interaction intention between india and china were the benefit both india and china as well as the region who is more interested in the normalization of ties right now the reason i'm asking is because i have a sort of a cynical thought of the back of my mind that the chinese may be moving towards the reconciliation with india because they, they, they predict or they forecast the growing problems with the trump administration. when you see in, during china, uh, even before uh before, 2020 we had some very good uh, meetings and discussions id informed to somebody to, to inform us. i'm going to go ahead. so both sides were interested in improving the

relationship and know about 2020, disrupted that. i think a probably really come back to that situation better. and during china we'd like to improve that relationship. but having said that, i must also ad here that toby had this, the problem. but induction or treat was increasing and be henry's, i think something like $115000000000.00. but the thing was the one sided, i mean we had a trade in buttons of something about $18000000.00, which was very high to us on sustainable. now with the these, the, the, the prints of the recent to bossed bodies in 2 weeks or need to addressing some of these issues which are long term destruction and issues in india to another sense, bedrooms. now if you look at other countries in asia and in just submitted, there's still a lot of instability here. bangladesh has just gone through

a major political collapse for long k is experiencing major economic crisis. myanmar is not stable. and i've heard you say the people who were watching before watching your political trans, right? we're not able to predict any of those developments. what you're seeing is happening in asia with so many disturbances on the social or state level or they, it's a very complex uh, the origin. and many of these countries, or the last a few years, i think that they have gone into some difficult economic situation. the balance is, have changed, for instance, in degree. so if you then got it going it or something like that, but that it could not re be included so much that you simply because it's internal . you cannot make the situation was not good, doesn't hardly any production. there was a depending on the, on some tourism, etc. but then there was also, i think,

is you open it because situation of the integration in saltisha. there is the integration economic integration saltisha has not really taking place. and there were many reasons for that. in the, it's a very big economy. if normally she would have very close to the economics industry shift, but with the neighboring countries. but most of these countries was trading with outside world. and that, well, you know, the degree they have to affordable. so the, and wanted is and which really reflected in that into an economic development. that of course, did you politics also meant that the china is rise the way it has impacted the reason. and many of these countries that they want to keep the options between india into an open, etc. so that created some problems and that also i think inhibited across economic ties between india and these countries. rebundle dish. we heard of course, a very good relationship with the last 15 years in the addition to ship to develop . but all this has now changed and i think they would have to know we'd love to see

how we can do a bundle issue to ship the progress is because in the last 15 years, and we didn't very lot of connected with you, which was a very important for both india and bundle dish. but no again, we don't need a new situation. nobody coming off of the drum, but the new i do see since we look to see how did the policy towards association do develops. because uh, in the last administration, uh, the, they were very unhappy with the, uh, the basic us enough government and bradley, uh, that also was one of the reasons. so how the developer mentioned bunger, they should have to place. so it's a very fluid, the situation. and it's the answer to institution, and perhaps one of those black phones, you know, really well and the quite a few of them, the bundle dish and dishes and go certainly of excellence. nobody really sorry to

coming in the effect more countries to exhibit the problems of as you say, if you look at the social economic situation in a neighborhood, many of these countries are experiencing problems we're seeing focused on also under a huge date. i also do forward to experiencing of gordon is done to longer and bundle dish. you mentioned more of the services a and a good example. all these up now doing the presidential election day and they took some of use of india out. so of course, but then they started experiencing, so my internet and economic development and i'm glad that there's invoice of visited into and now i think the industry ship is coming back on track. so there is a lot of the thinking that, that, that i would think that countries in our neighborhood when you're doing mundane drop and recession comes. so how they develop their conditions,

which i know with the, the us of it. and so for them, oh, so it's a complicated situation. well, mr. go up there. we have to take a very short break right now, but we will be back in just a few moments. stitching the or the

the developing wall claimed and ruined the lines of tens of thousands, but it was the hague tribunal, with delta of finishing flow to the mussel next fell down. yeah, it was that i will talk to them all of that will cause of the curious, i mean them was that the rest of us done or some which in the funded funding as many of them are just so needs. okay. up on these. you betcha so mutual block, the rest of the because of the throwing in eco so tired out table. i'll caution built around what sort of on team so so so the, so the evictions or for something to bit jane stuff says i've done this for the bus they have to go into discuss as i so this will not quit holding nice to cover the problem 1st find out, it's just some of the,

[000:00:00;00] the welcome back to you was a part with our vend good director of the they will come out there to national foundation in your daily, mr. clifton. before the break, we were talking about so many blocks, one events in your, in our neighborhood. and i want to ask you a sort of general philosophical question because stability is not a very popular term. and joe political circles this, these countries tend to speak more about resilience, but ultimately it conveys the similar ability of the ability to withstand and effectively deal with multiple in old and new challenges. as well as to,

you know, counter, sometimes malicious interference from a friendly places. what does it take in this day and age for a country into one team and foster its own resilience? i think the one is that up as you heading the recently just a few moments ago from we are definitely playing this with also that we need to build our internal strengths of. you should also put the focus on a human resources based to education, to screening, etc. this is a word of what technology and the 2nd of the technology goes or is it solving to, is also very important. what happened is that in this world of globalization, very often the trend of adult annoying sometimes or so we're going to, i think it's really necessary that the countries should retain

a certain strengths of each of them to protect their solid entries in different areas. technology, economy, etc. once you do that, then perhaps the inducement to the rest of the world is important. every country has some kind of history and somebody is gordon agriculture or somebody is going in something is and just have to, you know, just going to is, i can do, we have multiple students. so it's very important that we should be aware of this. and i think the case of, and i can also say that is a young nation on the 77 years old. but a very on the end of it just immunization up and up, going back to some of our civilization and attributes, trying to look for ideas which have sustained us, one of the thousands of us awesome of them uh, the value today. and again, a very important to keep us the site is to get this i. so let me ask you specifically about that because india also is the world's most popular as democracy . and i want to ask specifically about the relationship between the democratic

politics and political instability because we, what we saw in the run up to the american elections, for example, to assassination attempts on the presidential candidate depot. origination, hatred, almost hatred between various sectors of society. people stalking up on arms, all of that is ultimately a consequence of the politicians allowing them allowing themselves to use extreme emotions like hatred, anger, see, or scorn, shame in order to advance their political goals. but uh, you know, there are deep consequences for the societies. when you do that, do you think part of that instability that we have been discussing? and there's the sound of blacks ones maybe related to the waging. the chronic politics has been practiced, not necessarily in india, but more broadly around the, around the world. because this type of containing high peach, very emotional,

competing seems to be like something to emulate. that's part of the democratic practice, these days. democracy in the end, it should be about ordering in others a different viewpoint. it's only important. so the earlier form of democracy, the a country, a party award win, and they wouldn't be an opposition party, but there would be some dialogue between the over. so limits of what i'm sorry, is that considered acceptable and respectable? i suppose. so i think that the respecting the other viewpoint is perhaps the fundamental, attentive to afford democratic functioning. so that is not the is not happening and i'm seeing and noticing america within so many other countries, political violence is something that is and that needs to be issued. and this is the time to think that uh,

this is not democracy for it because why this is not the democracy. so i think the order of the red use of, uh, the under ins accommodation, going back to the basics of family, are we getting and shedding, that doesn't mean that you want to leave or just to send your own way of thinking. but that only means that you also have some respect to the other people. and i think this is what has to come in are the politics also, but the domestic national politics, but also in the international politics. and that's why i think good the popularity of the ideas like bricks, the be in dallas, a set of countries is coming together and they all are being hopefully being treated equally with respect to teacher and trying to work together. you may not find the solutions of every single problem. some problems i've sort of difficult that the solutions are not really easy. but if you have this uh, at the attitude offered,

expecting diversity sort of expecting diversity should become it best did an on this. and if it's going all for a democratic functioning, but that is not happening, nor does intelligence, democracy, and endurance, which is really an altima on shop and that way. but that's all, perhaps it's not the genuine democracy. then the reason i'm asking because i, i've been thinking about whether those labels of democracy versus a talk or see will be relevant in the coming years. because when we look at as, let's say, china and india competing for the leadership of the global south. i don't think, you know, all the countries are really making their decisions based on how india or china are structure the internal way. but the father on one of those countries can offer to, you know, that there is the parties partners to the developing. well, certainly i think that's how it should be in the development. so we should of leave to the, the, you know,

those countries. and it's certainly how we interact with each other and how we contribute to common good. and all do, does all our problems. that's how i think go, it's a good one. democracy, is it? what happens is it anything when it becomes an identity, it becomes a problem. there is a difference between philosophy and identity in philosophy. we say that ok, what you owe you. this is my view. that's our discussion and this agree to disagree with in or do you want to see this is your view. this is my view would maybe it was to be a and the phone instruct. now speaking about india in china, both these countries have all to reach policies. that's trust. the relatedness of all humanity. the engine version is called. i hope i pronounced that correctly unless the dive could to become, which means the world is one family. well, the chinese talk about a community of common destiny. it sounds very similar, but i'm sure there must be some cultural differences. how do you understand those differences? well, as far as what's a difficult to book them is concerned, it's

a ancient and in philosophy coming from them. i'll finish that. as you know, the, the, in the independent thinking that is a philosophical discourses card open to show it to that 18 of them. so it's one of them and it basically says that it's gone, somebody was rich, you're basically says that those who do not believe that word is a family and believe that they are in the other they're, i think wrong. so this is basically what the, what's the company's that means you should do so for their families in shared community and which is the chinese, the thinking a truck? yes, i think uh uh, i think it is similar, but uh, so long as so we love to see the politics behind us. so that's, i think good. there could be some differences. but there is no harm in talking about these and trying to find out what exactly mean if they want to mention one

more concept, which i don't uh, when the recently and this is god, one to a window comes from the south african nothing. and which means interconnectedness of the word and of it. sure is very similar to the what. so they work with the book that we are talking about so so long as believe in interconnectedness in the word and also it or do think others ideas. so if i say that i've also, they've got to become what it is my idea, then it doesn't work. so i think, well, you have to not only print but also practice and that's what they say. now both china and india have expressed a willingness to me, did the conflict in ukraine, and do you think that's just the alyssa discount or do you think there is some substance to it can one or perhaps both of them meaning fully contributed to some sort of a lasting fit, a settlement between russia, ukraine,

and hopefully they're west as well. i think what it shows is that the word at large want this conflict to be fitted if maybe there is a ceasefire or something, you know, i'm not sure of russian essentially. yeah. i think by this is the point. the point is that none of this, when you look on this, the both sides of it or through the sites back over the 3 sites, or maybe more sites up here. i think the issue is that the water is going on and there is a certain military dynamic good to that, and i'm sure those are what involved they would like to take note of that. so the rest of the work because of the collecting the damage or the, the consequences that the rest of the work is suffering. so they were like good at least to come in. but uh it was really with the both sides of the street. then they can talk me through this. i don't think they really need that. he mediates as thoughtful i mean, i personally feel that the enough experience in russia article in order to see and the rest, which it would be in gordon. and so any other issues,

if it was the other day they can probably talk. so it's okay. i mean, i think it's only in its own way the rest of the world is going rain to the parties involved in the war that there's good reasons have to maintain the resources to find out. if i may ask you, i, you recently wrote an article on the changing nature of warfare and you make a point there that the, the long wars have returned and that they require significant efforts or ultimately the restructuring of the economy is to ensure the availability of a munition, the world wasted share reserves, logistics, etc. i wonder if india reach has a reputation or at least some historical connection to the past, isn't dissing your country and we'll be more likely to invest in this join all tours, or is it more likely to invest in the efforts to prevent them? no,

i think it has to look at its own security environment. and when we wrote that article, we were trying to study data, show clean water and the lessons the for the uh, security community and for us. so it was in that context that uh, i wrote that article, it ended up. she just stopped by citizen alone when not to take a flight. uh there is something called a distance and which it will have to be big and a big country like and before that much of china or anybody as they work on the ditches. so that is the hardball. what is equally important? but hardwood combined with the soft color which is about these are to draw lots of they've got to become what it is when family a to there's no contradiction here. so i think you definitely have to validate the difficulties because we have seen when we did not have the capabilities over so far . so in other words, if you want to piece to prepare for one,

not prepared for what, but to double. well, mr. goof to, it's been great talking to you. thank you. thank you very much for that. thank and thank you for watching hope to see her again. on was a part of the in the, in the 2nd half of the 1940, the powerful european armies were losing their colon. one of the 1st to start collaborating was the dutch empire. on august 17 1945, the declaration of independence of indonesia, a former judge, colony was proclaimed the liberation movement 1st led by the national hero of the

indonesian people to carnis. however, amsterdam had his own plan, which was to defeat the revolution. more over, they were supported by great britain. the colonial troops setup control over the main cities in the country, but the countryside remained in the hands of the rebels and the resistance continued growing. in 1946, the british left indonesia, whereas the dutch did not want to lose power and switch to the tactics of total terror. in december 1947, the royal troops committed. the massacre of the inhabitants in the village of robert got a $431.00 civilians were killed. all in all the lives of 100000 indian agents were on the conscience of the dutch colonialists and their allies, mass executions, and regular bombing did not help the netherlands. their troops got blocked in the cities. the world community demanded to put it into violence. and the empire started negotiations in 1949, the head round table conference was held in the kingdom of the netherlands was