g 20 reflected strikingly different world views. the west drone don about it to queen proxy works the rest of the global south focused on international stability and economic prosperity. the processing the g 20. i'm joined by my guest policy sharma in new delhi. she is managing editor of 1st post and network 18 in one joe. we have john pang. he is a senior fellow of the belt and road initiative caucus for asia pacific and in bali we cross the call. john. he is a political analyst historian and host of the silk and steel podcast. alright, close lock rolls in effect, that means you can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate, let's 1st go to new delhi poky and preparing for this program. i looked at international media, western media, media from the, the global south and it was starkly different. but just like the starkly different view points that within the a g 20 bloomberg comes to mind. it was badly managed. it was this organized. um,

the, the, the focus was on joe biden and no one talked about trump and, but when i looked at other media a lot was talked about and very important and issues that apply to the vast majority of the world's population. but it's not talked about in western media, it's that is one of the striking things about this, this gathering. go ahead and new delhi to something else. i should only be done. thank you very much for having me. as part of this conversation, i, the, the disparity that you pointed out in the way the rest and media looks at issues and looks at events. most of the rest of the world has been evident. and if i could do with the example, other words of india as external assessment of desperation for who said a couple of years back, that the problem is that your belief that there was problems are problems. uh, the other way around. actually the problem with the was problems of back to the was problems. i'm not you, i'm struggling. that translates to the media as well. and,

and they look at everything to a certain lens which is very evident. but the soul of that all the little, the south leaders, including the need of india and disease. i did point out what type of issues that the world really grappling with because of where the conflicts because of the policies because of the rules that uh, a small bunch of leaders tend to make it and false on the rest of the world. the reason for the lives of christ is those thoughts shortage. there are a whole lot of issues that the one is drafting with and. and the g 20 summit did try to put the focus on that. we also heard from experts including those from the rest who said that going forward. 70 percent of the the was gdp will come from the south. so it's about time that the west took note of the issues that concern the other. john, it was very interesting, again, looking at western coverage of it, it was in ordinarily focused on the ukraine conflict and we've known for, for over 2 years now, 2 years plus, is that the global south just as policy,

which i think could be european and that's your problem, you created your problem now, why don't you solve it? i mean, why do you want to bring in the rest of the world? and it was really remarkable how much the bilateral relationship between india and china was focused on in the global south media. but it was disparage, really mentioned in western media. go ahead john. yeah. and tend to, um, add some historical context to this may actually be before this. um, you know, the 2 previous occasions when you're repeating problems became world problems, right? maybe the 1st world war and the 2nd world war, right. and we could not keep out of it. and it's instructive. and it's interesting and truly important that this time we can say, look, this is actually not all problem. these will never all problems, right? europe has been and the west has been in that arc of history and exporter off of its conflicts. and so i think when people have the global south reject this,

they do it with some historical sense that know business. you're not going to define our issue choose. i think this is, you know, this meet at disparity that you're talking about. i think it reflects the sudden state of mind, a certain selection then not characterized as the west. and the science solution is not just in the launch of psychological and it's not just in the sort of increasingly the use of sanctions and restrictions export restrictions and so on. it's, it's starting to be a sort of, you know, a bubble and it be some, a logical bubble as well. utilities, tons of leaving your own world. zip is, is the kind of we are the world complex credit when you're no longer the world because that's, that's absolutely true. you know, carl, a few years ago i was in beijing for a bricks, media conference. and we had this fascinating discussion. one of the problems that the global south faces needs to overcome is it, we need our own google's,

we need our own means of communication. but like, for example, you know, i learned about what's going on and chilly through bloomberg. what, what, why can't i have a, the global south a conduit instead of always going through the western nodes. we need to break out of that because if i'd only read bloomberg for example, i would have thought that the g 20 was a complete waste of time and those stupid people in the south take it on board because pollutants taking over europe. if that's what you would get as well from us perspective, i mean many cases g 20 is a waste of time because most of western leaders including buying, they use g 20 as a photo op opportunity. yeah. it's a, it's a place where they take photos which site missed by the see was late to the meetings. and so the f m x, y, and then and then the car. okay. then carl, he disappeared into the rain for somehow, but i'm sorry to interrupt. you've gone and i mean, yeah, that's why fighting does by, it has to be

a walk in zone before the past 4 years. nobody was surprised. i bet i, we'll give it shows that kindly you relevancy us of us like global states right now, because we're facing some real issues, including the, the us supported is really atrocity in the middle east. us wage proxy. what are you, ukraine? and then, and there's a global foot short, a foot shortage bar across the globe side. this was exasperated by us. innovation is a bar across the world, leveraging financial sanctions. so, you know, by the, we, we don't, the, the rest of the world is looking at this and you look at the photo op and realize, you know, what, we don't need by and we don't, uh, you know, i, i see your sentiment here. let me go back to policy. i mean, i, i think the g 20 is actually important because beyond the photo op, because the most important country is the most populous lee, they economically strong countries of global so they can sit down and they can

confront their former colonial masters. ok. we need to initiatives on poverty, climate change, economic prosperity, global economic, um, uh, governance, i mean, these are issues they have to address because just as you pointed out, well, you know, that's what's going on in the global south. it's one of our business. but when the, when they, when there's something going on in the, in the west, they want everyone else on board. i think it's a good tit for tat. go ahead and new delhi. absolutely, and i think increasingly western governments do realize that uh, they cannot or continue doing what they're doing. they can often to do to dominate either culturally or, or technologically. they need a market 1st of all and they need fox news as well. and oh, interesting, we would be with the election of donald trump, but even jordan doesn't know which, which box knows it can really rely on. so there are some proofing themselves and trying to figure out who are the allies and what a box doesn't, how transactions relationship with beach. so there's a bit of a chaos there,

and they need bought the global south. and these are countries with young population visa countries with, with the, with people who are ready to innovate, to have the hunger and who have the markets that the rest is definitely looking for . we see lead us back to until recently with lecturing countries the solve and human rights. now reaching out to those very countries, investigators jain, africa, i'm trying to business to do business with dental. the patients are changing for sure. um, i think what is needed is a concerted effort, and the saw that you mentioned the family for to it was a it was a very telling of development that 3 lead us to the canadian, the dining. then, of course, joe biden could not make it with the family for the photo did happen, and i think there is, there is a message and that of the one with this longer give a full joins the bus. yes, because john the world keeps going on. okay. well, you're not going to wait for by nor maloney or to go free because how would it be to the world? it has its own issues and it doesn't have to jenny reflect to western leaders like

i'm glad the family photo was brought up because i think it is also very telling go ahead, john. this matter of the world going on is actually reflects a huge structural shift in the nature of the world economy, global power, demographics and so on. and, you know, it's just that western behavior of the last few years have really exacerbated this really probably to the full. i think it's spend almost all of us. um, the extent to which, you know, business, there's been a dropping of the masks of west and pretension. not all, you know, at long last coming to lee, right. could they just stop trying to trying to lecture people on human rights, for example, while vetting or supporting a full fledged genocide? right. talk to us about your responsibility when you are trying to trigger your possibly triggering a nuclear war. so it's, it's ludicrous. and however,

these issues have brought up very, very sharply right now. and very graphically, i feel as if we're witnessing, i know it's just quite a moment. and i agree, i think we're all witnesses to an extraordinary paradigm. so if you know carl, it's happening, you know, i've been talking about this as long as this program has been on air, but i think we all agree in the last couple of years. it's really accelerated, this change a for sure. i mean, a shooting pain has said in his meeting with president boot and we are in a president to change on seeing you last 100 years you when i, we my friend we are driving this together. this us, on the other hand, has been disjoint. all the international forum is international institution itself helps to create after world war 2. this is why people are now looking to breaks as a alternative to the us dominated international institutions in the past. yeah,

well you know, karl, you, you're getting way ahead of me because that's what i want. i mentioned the 2nd part of the program, but poky, i'll drop. i'll start with you. the, the, the western postwar order is basically done. it's faded away. go ahead and pop punk in new new daily will actually be you mentioned that that you, you're getting this news from bloomberg and it is a fact that the west has dominated the narrative and dominated the channels to which people are informed and formed from their opinions but increasingly, technology, despite their best efforts, has democratize information. and so, so we see things. so what they are always seeing that the same us justifies an invasion of iraq in the name of fighting terrorism, but sits in judgement of others of and when a similar uh, a lot of conflict breaks out the sand usdas out the want to respect the introduction resolved but decides that the, the, the, it's been elected and venezuela is not going to be going the president and the

nominate someone else as a president. the next. well i didn't talk, i have to jump in here to, i mean it's not part of the program, but the election in moldova was an absolute jam. but you know, the world goes on for the west being on so much for democracy or i'd have to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on the 320 states with all the or the tab to the establishment of the bosses where his email is been in 1933. the position of the indigenous population in the portuguese colonies deteriorated dramatically, especially in angola. decatur, antonio de, i live at salazar, encourage colonizing b and golden lands by europeans,

and sought after turning the country into a portuguese province, where the goldens would be 2nd class people. in 1961, there was an outbreak of violence on the part of the portuguese, in revenge for the plantation workers strike portuguese aircraft bomb. the villages in northern angola and race riots took place in african parts of lawanda. the people of angelo rose in an armed rebellion. the rude jealousy of the colonialists knew no bounds. despite the un calls to stop the violence, the parties only intensified their terror against the rebels. the fourties actively used the political contradictions between various groups of rebels during the war colonial aircraft. regularly use a farm and drop the fully in san peaceful villages. the portuguese empire was severely exhausted by the struggle against the national liberation movements. a revolution in portugal brought down the processed regime and put it in to the

murder as war against the people of angola. on january 15, 1975, the l bore agreements were signed and the country gained independence. after so many years of the brutal war. the on the welcome back to the prospect where all things are considered. non peter live else remains. you were discussing the g 20 the okay, let's go. let's go back to john in a bunch of i think it's very interesting. yeah. it's what you sanctions has already been mentioned here, and i think we should also bring up on the western militarism is that, you know, the more i look at like the, the g 20 at least aspects of it particularly or bit and particularly like the

bricks is it in the west use the sanctions to get to get its way often against international law. but i see these, these global south institutions. they're, they're creating them is that they're creating barriers, a shield against that. what they want to do is they want, you know, a, they, they move a, uh, the west bank. so you all the way the world is afraid of their sanctions. but now we have countries coming together to shield themselves collectively against sanctions being about financial institutions, banking and like that. so it's trying to coordinate the west from all. what's it look, fax, go ahead, john. yes i, i think there is that going on and this sort of, uh, some, coordinating off, but actually we have past the stage where you even need to coordinate off when you effect the sanction. it's like sewing on the, you know, sitting on the branch and sewing on it. but um, you know, its effective if you're, if you're attached to the trunk. but if you have a smaller bit,

you fall off. so this, you know, it's a portion of forest isolated and we will pass the time when the west is the center of the global economy. global growth is driven by asia. most of global trade is between the global south and the south. the west is no longer central to the global economy. it's peripheral and bricks shows that, you know, at the g 20 for example, if um, you're right that this is the, this is the point where, you know, the countries of the global south, the, you know, can, can confront those and the other side in the past few years, it hasn't been a very interesting exercise. you tend to have the g 7 sort of go on about about ukraine and then just walk out, et cetera. when russia showed up that sort of thing. you know, it was pretty unproductive. but now i think the rest, the global majority have shown, and i think this is going to be reflected in that you 20. but if you walk out, well, we're just going to have take the picture without you. we're going to go on. so it's not just

a question of texting against it. i think they need to understand they're no longer central to the global economy, not technologically, not even scientifically. right. a study is just just come out that we might, by nature listing the 20 nature of the, the scientific journal, listing the 20 more miss andrea cities in terms of scientific production. the top to it. aging in shanghai, beijing, twice the amount of shanghai, you know, west is out of the top 20 cities. i think 9 a half of them are in china so that, you know, china is already exceeded the west in terms of scientific prepare production of knowledge. so these are things we ship happen very, very quickly, and i think people in the west having to adjust it to a model but have a really difficult time. it's almost pathological, all the panic at the last of this sort of a, you know, primacy, u, as in charlie, in fact, actually they don't have to worry in the john, you're absolutely right. there is an element of a panic there. i think you're absolutely right. because pending,

because that's why you see such an aggressive behavior around the world stage because the gemini is slipping through, like sand in their hands, and they're panicking about it because they don't have any alternative, you know, call another huge casualty of our time is the, the end of international law you the genocide is already been mentioned here we've had but a mores of choices. the west is committed in the, in the lot in this century alone. and again, touch the global south just either it doesn't the international as long as used against them. it's a cultural against them when the perpetrators are at the a breaking the law or the west. go ahead carl, exactly. us use icbc to go after our menu does not like you have when icvc issues warrens over rest for the yahoo, you know, united states is not going to comply. and this is a problem. this is a problem. us is that us is actively destroying all these the credibility of all

these international institution. and for us, you have to help create in the 1st place. and this is what people realize. why do we need us is a 1st place because you for the past. um yeah. as joseph morales, the, the famous gardner has said that there is a western hoffman. this is over is over, and this is something that president shooting pete had made very clear to bite and joins are us china, somebody just prior to g 20. you said there must be correct. strategic understanding this do says that the trap is not a historical reality. for a new cold war, 10 not and should not be bought. and at, at that he goes out to say the words must be to what trustworthy and actually must be faithful. a person cannot stand without credibility. china always follow through . on these words, i use the us, i always say one thing and does another. it's very detrimental to america's image

and damage mutual to us. i mean, so you can just basically call all america up with speaking with a port tom here. and this is a very uh i'll, i would say i would correct your stickly long message, but i think it's, it's to, to be delivered to not only biting, but also the incoming trump administration. now it's important to understand that the time have changed, disabled, that change. yeah. the it, but it's a mindset that hasn't changed because we all know with the incoming administration, taiwan is going to be the new hot button issue for this admit, it's obvious to me. okay, and you know, i wrote broken promises, broken commitments abound, right, that air poking again, you know, kind of looking at how the international order is changing. so it's really remarkable, again to see how many countries in the global south realize they've better state to if they don't hang together, they're going to hang separately. and i think that that is a trend that is growing. go ahead and i think the indigenous thinking and i was

reading some uh, a reports and statements business from the you foreign policy to joseph border. who said that wherever i go, i find myself confronted to the accusation of double standards. are integrated into model macro, who said i'm struck by how much the cost of the global solved at the beginning one day because of the rest of the lectures. the rest of the was about what is right, what is it? it was based order to the airport came in that this was the 49th die in the united states as he was the beatles baba to defend the block, the resolution against israel at the united nations. and that says something. so you use be the live expression, you use the human rights as, as a stick to beat up the rest of the world. read about those same rules, do not apply and the world is beginning to not just see it, but also call it out and. and that should give the rest uh, some thoughtful thoughts and ideas and how to mean the rates. well, john, it's really amazing that joseph brown has been brought up twice on this program,

which i have um, well i haven't been so kind to in the past. okay. but the garden, you know, attending their garden issue. but that tells us everything about the mindset. okay . it you can talk to people rationally. but joseph bro just thinks because he's a european, he knows better, he is better, he's more moral that this is something a mindset that is impossible to, to belvin, to confront. let, let me try to have a slightly hopeful perspective on this at by, by trying to to, to, to have a pep at least see that what just happened in november 6th, in the us elections. and as a glimmer of hope in this regard. in that, i think this, this mindset is um, characteristic of a very, very small a fin, restricted elite and so angry with me, anglo american or yeah, you know,

atlanta, north atlantic. or you can say, find that the 5 vice 5 vice 5 eyes plus you know, natal but, but i think i think it's the, the election showed health seen this, this, this, this elite is and how spin that idea. ology really is, i think it's rejected even in the united states at the heart of, of western power. so that was the big thing. no, regardless of, of who trump stops this is, you know, of these appointments. i mean, those are important. but look beyond at his base, look at the us. i think the ideology that sustains the supremacy isn't, which is liberalism is a gardener with the popular west. that's what populism is. it's a rejection of that. and so it's popping up basis is gone. it's on mosque at home. so there's this uni, paula resumed, his premises,

them is liberal supremacy. so also it does not work at home any more. so, so there's a little bit of hope there, but you know, it could be really troublesome. there's this p i a, i think john, i think you have a very interesting read on that. i'll go call right now. i mean, one of the things, the, the, the, the, the west is always telling the preaching about standards and all that. but half of america is poor now and it's getting poor. okay. it's one of the reasons for populism to rise. and so i, you know, i think i can take on board with john, have decided that before we get to that optimism, they will have to be a complete breakdown in the west. i mean, the europe, europe is suffering terribly um, you know, i, we live here in russia, the sanctions of only created innovation in russia. it hasn't hurt russia at all. go ahead carl. exactly. the like price important is that during his tucker carlson interviewer, there needs to be a change in the hedge,

a monic mindset of the us, the lead. if that mindset does not change, then nothing will ever change. and we, this is again, a highlighted during president. she's, you can stop is by it and you said we need to treat each others as equals exchange between 2 major countries like china, united states, neither sink side can reshape the other according to their own wishes. nor can they suppress the other face the car on the ground. do you think an american president can publicly treat the president of china as an equal they should be yours? no, but he won't do you know, he won't. you want us, the do not have outlook as us, has vassals. this is why right now they're even going after you india us just indicted a indian businessman, a donnie for supposedly a corruption charge. even this united states as your u. s. cord is trying to invite the indian businessman for something he has has

supposedly down in india. and the only reason that they are able to do that is because the quite big claim a donnie has, has some transaction on the u. s. bond market. so by through using the us financial head gemini, they're throwing the books at every body. they don't like, i mean, this is obvious, attempt to put pressure on the body government because they didn't like that, you'd be presuming, showing an independent foreign policy versus russia because india is continued to purchase russian oil and gas and then re sells it to you at a premium price and the united states does not like this, but this is kind of wrapped by, well, it looks to me that the, the future ingenious entrepreneurship is coming from the global south because everybody knew that was gonna happen with russian oil. anyway, that's all the time we have. i want to take my guess in new delhi valley and one joe. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r t c. you next time. remember, across the rules the

to take a fresh look around his life kaleidoscope. it gives him just a shifted reality distortion by power to division with no real opinions fixtures designed to simplify. it will confuse really once a better wills, and is it just as it shows you, fractured images, presented to this 1st? can you see through their illusion going underground? can the,

if you think about russia, what is your mind picture the landscape open up before your eyes? the was one of those. can you imagine the, the discounts dodge the journey? the, the, you ready to come along the, during world war 2, the germans with the help of the starship. the creation revolutionary movement that the independent state of croatia transported. hundreds of people have no way to

work and force labor camps. the germans wanted the work force to build roads and the infrastructure in norway. so when they couldn't get enough prisoners from serbia, they contacted the social and the install of these cancer, you had the that's rate up to 82 percent each, which is actually a higher done in the ultimate among the, with dozens of children. lloyd did the george i have oh it, but i tell you, and i'm going to be a little go to the coast to the original jets are definitely a little bit of an older school that'd be good to to this is a good receptionist and it would not say that they had the horrible conditions except from the t lease. many people died from surveys seized hunger as diseases. very few made it back home was for some of the 2 of the, the to logic drove the table 9 most of you. but, you know, and that was the us and this is,

was in the near goal 0. the the, there are no means of countering such weapons. today, the modern air defense systems available in the world. and the missile defense systems being built by the americans in europe do not intercept such marseilles plugged vapors into puds rushing. here's the new heights of solar eclipse, solve the western defenses called shoot down just point the military industrial facility and ukraine. they're watching present also issues of stone bullying that most of them can attack lucy solely in countries that allow the weapons to be used against is country and washington condemns most to the card escalation. even the conflict, ignoring the fact that the.