going underground, can the the hello and welcome to cross ok. we're all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle. this is gathering of the g 20 reflected strikingly different world views. the west drone don about a 2 queen proxy works the rest of the global south focused on international stability and economic prosperity. the process of getting the g 20, i'm joined by my guess pelk sharma in new delhi. she is managing editor of 1st post

and network 18 in one joe. we have john pang. he is a senior fellow of the belt in road initiative caucus for asia pacific and in bali we cross the call job. he is a political analyst historian and host of the silk and steel podcast. alright, cause i propose that effect, that means you can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate, let's 1st go to new delhi policy. and preparing for this program, i looked at international media, western media, a media from the, the global south. and it was starkly different. but just like the starkly different view points that within the a g 20 bloomberg comes to mind. it was badly managed. it was this organized um the, the focus was on jo bite and no one talked about trump and, but when i looked at other media a lot was talked about and very important and issues that apply to the vast majority of the world's population. but it's not talked about in western media, it, that is one of the striking things about this, this gathering go ahead and new delhi of something else. i should only be done.

thank you very much for having me. as part of this conversation, i, the, the disparity that you pointed out in the way the rest and media looks at issues and looks at events. most of the rest of the world has been evident. and if i could use the example, other words of india as external affairs minister aspiration for who set a couple of years back. that the problem is that your belief that there was problems are problems. uh, the other way, don't actually that, that got a problem with the was problems of back to the was problems. i'm not you on the problems that translates to the media as well. and, and they look at everything to a certain lens which is very evident, but the soul of that all the little, the south leaders, including the need of india and disease. i did point out what type of issues that the world really grappling with because of where the conflicts because of the policies because of the rules that uh, a small bunch of leaders tend to make it and false on the rest of the was there is a for the lives of crisis, those food shortage. there are

a whole lot of issues or the one is drafting with an energy 20 some. i did try to put the focus on that. we also heard from experts including those from the rest. who said that going forward. 70 percent of the, the was gdp will come from the south. so it's about time that the west took note of the issues that concern the other. john, it was very interesting. again, looking at western coverage of it. it was in ordinarily focused on the ukraine conflict and we've known for, for over 2 years, no 2 years plus is that the global south just as policy, which i think could be your opinion about your problem. you created your problem, why don't you solve it? i mean, why do you want to bring in the rest of the world? and it was really remarkable how much the bilateral relationship between india and china was focused on in the global south media. but it was despair originally mentioned in western media. go ahead, john. yeah, and tend to add some historical context to this may actually be before this um,

you know, the 2 previous occasions when you're repeating problems became world problems, right. maybe the 1st world war and the 2nd world. yeah. right. and we could not keep out of it. and it's instructive. and it's interesting and truly important that this time we can say, look, this is actually not all problem. these will never all problems, right? europe has been and the west has been in that arc of history and exporter off of its conflicts. and so i think when people have the global south reject this, they do it with some historical sense that uh no. this is, you're not going to define our issue choose, i think this is, you know, this meet at disparity that you're talking about. i think it reflects the sudden state of mind, a certain selection then not characterized as the west. and the science solution is not just in the launch of psychological and it's not just in the sort of

increasingly the use of sanctions and restrictions export restrictions and so on. it's, it's starting to be a sort of, you know, a bubble and it puts them in a logical bubble as well. utilities started leaving your own world. zip is, is the kind of we are the world complex credit when you're no longer the world because that's, that's absolutely true. you know, carl, a few years ago i was in beijing for a bricks, media conference. and we had this fascinating discussion. one of the problems that the global south faces it needs to overcome is it, we need our own google's, we need our own means of communication. but like, for example, you know, i learned about what's going on and surely through bloomberg. what, what, why can't i have a, the global south a conduit instead of always going through the west or no it's, we need to break out of that because if i'd only read bloomberg for example, i would have thought that the g 20 was a complete waste of time and those stupid people in the south take it on board because boat is taking over europe. if that's what you would get as well from us

perspective. i mean, many cases you 20 is a waste of time because most of western leaders including buying, they use g 20 as a photo opportunity. yeah. it's a, it's a place where they take photos. which side missed by the way. yeah. she was late to the meeting, and so the f x, y, and then and then the car. okay. then carl, he disappeared into the rain for somehow, but i'm sorry to interrupt, keep going. i have you do. that's why i'm fighting. does bite has been a walk in zone before the past 4 years. nobody was surprised. i then i'll be shows that kinda you relevancy us of us a global stage right now because we're facing some real issues including the, the us supported is really atrocity in the middle. used us wage proxy. what do you, ukraine, and then, and there's a global foot short, a foot shortage bar across the globe side. this was exasperated by us. innovation

is a bar across the world, leveraging financial sanctions. so, you know, by the way, we do the rest of the, we're always looking at this. and if you look at the photo op and realized, you know what, we don't need by it. and we don't, uh, you know, i, i see your sentiment here. let me go back to policy. i mean, i, i think the g 20 is actually important because beyond the photo op, because the most important country is the most populous lee, they economically strong countries of global so they can sit down and they can confront their former colonial masters. ok. we need initiatives on poverty, climate change, economic prosperity, global economic, um, uh, governance, i mean, these are issues they have to address because just as you pointed out, well, you know, that's what's going on in the global south. it's one of our business. but when the, when the, when there's something going on in the, in the west, they want everyone else on board. i think it's a good tit for tat. go ahead and new delhi. absolutely, and i think increasingly,

western governments do realize that the big cannot or continue doing what they're doing. they can often to do to dominate either culturally or or technologically. they need a market 1st of all and they need fox news as well. and oh, interesting, we would be with the election of donald trump. well, even jordan doesn't know which, which box knows it can really rely on. so there are drunk proofing themselves and trying to figure out who are the allies and what a box does and how transactions the relationship will be. so there's a bit of a key off there, and they need bought those and the global solve. and these are countries with young population, these are countries with, with the, with people who are ready to, in a way to have the hunger and who have the markets that the rest is definitely looking for. we see does that to until recently with lecturing countries and the global solve and human rights. now reaching out to those very countries, invest asia and africa, i'm trying to business to do business with them. so the questions are changing for so i, i think what is needed is a concerted effort and the saw that you mentioned,

the family for to it was a, it was a very telling a development that 3 lead us of the canadian, the dining. then of course, dividing it could not make it for the family for the photo did happen, and i think there is, there is a message and the longer you give a full joins the bus. yes. because john the world keeps going on. okay, well you're not going to wait for by nor maloney or to go 3 because how would we be to the world? it has its own issues and it doesn't have to jenny reflect to western leaders like i, i'm glad the family photo was brought up because i think it is also very telling. go ahead, john. this matter of the world going on, his actually reflects a huge structural shift in the nature of the world economy, global power, demographics and so on. and, you know, it's just that western behavior of the last few years have really exacerbated this really brought it to the full i think it's spend almost all of us. um,

the extent to which, you know, business, there's been a dropping of the masks of west and pretension. not all, you know, at long last coming to lee, right. could they just stop trying to trying to electro people on human rights for example. while vetting or supporting a full fledged genocide, like talk to us about your responsibility when you are trying to trigger your possibly triggering a nuclear war. so it's, it's ludicrous. and however, these issues have brought up very, very sharply right now. and very graphically, i feel as if we're witnessing, i know it just quite a moment and i agree, i think we're all witnesses to an extraordinary paradigm. so if you know carl, it's happening. you know, i've been talking about this as long as this program has been on air, but i think we all agree in the last couple of years. it's really accelerated, this change for sure. i mean,

a staging pain has said in his meeting with president boot and we are in a home president to change all i'm seeing you last 100 years you. when i, we my friend we are driving this together. this us, on the other hand, has been disjoint. all the international forum is international institution itself helps to create after world war 2. this is why people are now looking to breaks as a alternative to the us dominated international institutions in the past. yeah, well you know, currently you're getting way ahead of me cuz that's what i want. i mentioned the 2nd part of the program, but poky, i'll drop. i'll start with you. the, the, the western post were order is basically done. it's faded away. go ahead and pop punk in new new daily will actually re uh you mentioned that that you, you're getting this news from bloomberg and it is a fact that the west has dominated the narrative and dominated the channels to which people are informed and formed from their opinions,

but increasingly technology, despite their best efforts, has democratize information. and so, so we see things. so what be, are we seeing that the thing us justifies an invasion of iraq in the name of fighting terrorism. but it's, it's in judgement of others of and when a similar area of water conflict breaks out, the same usdas out the water respect uh, and election result. but decides that the, the, the, it band elected in venezuela is not going to be calling the president and they nominate someone else as a president elect. well, i do apologize. i have to jump in here to, i mean it's not part of the program, but the election in moldova was an absolute jam. but you know, the world goes on for the west. you know so much for democracy or i'd have to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break, and after that your break, we'll continue our discussion on the 320 stay with our case. the

one i want to show the wrong just to save house to comes to after care and engagement a closely trail. when so many find themselves will support, we choose to look so common ground the all americans today, our armed forces joined our nato allies in air strikes against the serbian forces. below. forgot the village spread through us with them only we saw for we conclude, disregarding a face to face each munition, which is reinforced with the depleted uranium that has a special capacity to penetrate. from absolute, our safety point of view, there is no radiological or even, and not even significant consequences. the,

the symmetry seems endless. a real city of the dead, where it's very easy to get lost. similar graveyards now exist in iraq and afghanistan. they may soon appear in ukraine with thousands of square kilometers of already being contaminated with deadly dust. for the next 4 and a half 1000000000 years, the welcome back across stock were all things are considered. non peter live else remains. you were discussing the g. 20 the okay, let's go. let's go back to john in the one joe. i think it's very interesting. yeah . it's like the sanctions has already been mentioned here. and i think we should

also bring up on the western militarism is a, you know, the more i look at like the, the g 20 at least aspects of it, particularly or but, and particularly like the bricks, is it in the west use the sanctions to get to get its way, often against international law. but i see these, these global south institutions. they're, they're creating them is that they're creating barriers, a shield against that. what they want to do is they want, you know, in the, maybe they, uh, the west thing. so you know, the, what the world is afraid of their sanctions, but now we have countries coming together to shield themselves collectively against sanctions being about financial institutions, banking and like that. so it's trying to coordinate the west from all. what's it look, fax, go ahead. john, sorry, i think that there is that going on this sort of, uh, some, coordinating off, but actually we have past the stage where you even need to coordinate off when you effect the sanction. it's like sewing on the, you know,

sitting on the branch and sewing on it. but um, you know, its effective if you're, if you're attached to the trunk. but if you have a smaller bit, you fall off. so this, you know, it's a portion of forest isolated and where will pass the time when the west is the center of the global economy. global growth is driven by asia. most of global trade is between the global south and the south and west is no longer central to the global economy. it's peripheral and bricks shows that, you know, at the g 20 for example, if um, you're right that this is the, this is the point where, you know, the countries of the global south, the, you know, can, can confront those and the other side in the past few years, it hasn't been a very interesting exercise. your tended to have the g 7 sort of go on to about about ukraine and then just walk out etc. and russia showed up that sort of thing. you know, it was pretty unproductive, but now i think the rest, the global majority have shown. and i think this is going to be reflected in that

you 20, that if you walk out, well, we're just going to have take the picture without real clear. we're going to go on, so it's not just a question of protecting against it. i think they need to understand. they're no longer central to the global economy, not technologically, not even scientifically. right. a study is just just come up with my nature listing the 20 nature of the, the scientific journal, listening to 20 more me andrea cities in terms of scientific production, top to it, aging and shanghai, but aging twice. the amount of shanghai, you know, west is out of the top 20 cities. i think 9 a half of them are in china. so that, you know, china is already exceeded the west in terms of scientific prepare production of knowledge. so these are things we ship happen very, very quickly, and i think people in the west having to adjust it to a model but have a really difficult time. it's almost pathological, the panic of the last of this sort of a, you know, primacy. u, as in charlie, in fact, actually they don't have to worry about. yeah. but john,

you're absolutely right. there is an element of a panic there. i think you're absolutely right. because pending, because that's why you see such an aggressive behavior around the world stage because the gemini is slipping through, like sand and their hands. and they're panicking about it because they don't have any alternative, you know, call another huge casualty of our time is the, the end of international law. you've, the genocide is already been mentioned here. we've had but a mores of choices. the west is committed in the, in the law in this century alone. and again cut the global south is either it doesn't, the international as lot the lot is used against them. it's a cultural against them. when the perpetrators are the a breaking the law or the west, go ahead carl, exactly us use icbc to go after our menu does not like yet when icvc issues warrens over rest for the yahoo, you know,

united states is not going to comply and this is a problem, this is a problem us, is that us is actively disjoint, all these the credibility of all these international institution. and for us, you have to help create in the 1st place. and this is when people realize it, why do we need us to be the 1st place? because you for the past. um yeah, as joseph morales, the, the famous gardner has said that parents of western hoffman this is over is over and, and this is something that president shooting people had made very clear to fight and joins are us, china, somebody just prior to g 20 you said there must be correct strategic understanding this do says that the trap is not a historical reality for a new cold war can not and should not be bought. and at that he goes out to say the words must beach. what trustworthy an action must be, play for a person cannot stand without credibility. china always follow through on his words,

by you the us, i always say one thing and does another. it's very detrimental to america's image and damage mutual twice. i mean, so you can just basically call all america i was speaking was a 4th time here. and this is a very uh i'll, i would say i would correct your stickly long message, but i think it's, it's to, to be delivered to not only bite and, but also the incoming trump administration. and that's for them to understand that the time have changed, disabled. that change. yeah, the but it, but it's a mindset that hasn't changed because we all know with the incoming administration, taiwan is good. it'd be the new hot button issue for this admit, it's obvious to me. okay. and you know, broke broken promises, broken commitments abound, right? that air poking again, you know, kind of looking at how the international order is changing. so it's really remarkable, again to see how many countries in the global south realize they've better state to

if they don't hang together, they're going to hang separately. and i think that that is a trend that is growing. go ahead and i think the realization to think again, i was reading some uh, a reports and statements. this is from the you foreign policy to joseph bought and who said that wherever i go, i find myself constructed for the accusation of double standards are integrated into model macro. who said i'm struck by how much the cost of the global solve that . because any one day because of the rest of the lectures, the rest of the was about what is right, what is the rules based order today, or both game in that this was the 49th time that the united states as use the veto fava to defend that is the block, the resolution against israel at the united nations, and that says something. so you use the, the live expression, your use of the human rights as a, as a stick to beat up the rest of the world, writ of, of those same rules. do not apply and the world is beginning to not just see it, but also call it out and. and that should give the rest uh,

some thoughtful thoughts and ideas and how to mean that rate. well, john, it's really amazing that joseph brown has been brought up twice on this program, which i have um, well i haven't been so kind to in the past. okay. but the garden, it, you know, attending their garden issue. but that tells us everything about the mindset. okay, it, you can talk to people rationally. but joseph bro just thinks, because he's a european, he knows better, he is better, he's more moral that this is something a mindset that it's impossible to, to delve into confront. let, let me try to have a slightly hopeful perspective on this at by, by trying to do to, to have a pep at least see that what just happened in november 6th in the us elections. and there is a glimmer of hope in this regard. in that, i think this, this mindset is characteristic of a very, very small, a fin,

respected elite. and so angry with the anglo american or yeah, you know, atlanta, north atlantic. or you can say, find that the 5 vice 5 eyes, 5 eyes less, you know, natal but. but i think, i think it's the, the election showed health seen this, this, this, this elite is and how spin that idea. ology really is, i think it's rejected even in the united states at the heart of, of western power. so that was the big thing, you know, regardless of, of who trump stops is, is, you know, all of these appointments. i mean, those are important. but look beyond at his base, look at the us, i think the ideology that sustains the supremacy is and which has liberalism is a goner with the popular west. that's what populism is. it's a rejection of that. and so it's popular pieces is gone, it's unmasked. at home,

so there's this uni, paula resumed his premises, them this liberal supremacy is also does not work at home any more so, so there is a little bit of hope that but you know, it could be really troublesome. this dispute, cuz i think john, i think you have a very interesting read on that. all good call right now. i mean, one of the things, the, the, the, the west is always telling the preaching about standards and all that. but half of america is poor. now, and it's getting poor. okay, and it's one of the reasons for populism to rise. and so i, you know, i think i can take on board with john how to say, but before we get to that optimism, they will have to be a complete breakdown in the west. i mean, the europe, europe is suffering terribly um, you know, i've, he lived here in russia, the sanctions of only created innovation in russia. it hasn't hurt russia and all go head carl to exactly the right price. important is that during his tucker

carlson interviews, there needs to be a change in the hedge, a monic mindset of the us, the lead. if that mindset does not change, then nothing will ever change. and we, this is again, a highlighted during the presidency. you can stop who is by it and you said we need to treat each others as equals exchange between 2 major countries like china, united states, neither 2nd side can reshape the other according to their own wishes. nor can they suppress the other face the car on the ground. these thinking american president can publicly treat the president of china as an equal. should i be sure. no, but he won't. do you know, he won't, that you want us to not have as long as us has vassals. this is why right now they're even going after india us just indicted a indian businessman a dottie for supposedly

a corruption charge in india. this united states, as your u. s. cord, is trying to invite the indian businessman for something he has has supposedly down in india. and the only reason that they are able to do that is because the claim that claim a donnie has had some transaction only u. s. bond market. so by through using the u. s. financial had gemini, they're throwing the books at everybody. they don't like. i mean, this is obvious, attempt to put pressure on the mo, the government, because they didn't like that you'd be as presuming, suing independent foreign policy versus russia. because india has continued to purchase russian oil and gas and then re sell them to you at a premium price. and the united states does not like that. but this is kind of wrapped by, well yeah, it looks to me that the, the future in genius entrepreneurship is coming from the global south because everybody knew that was gonna happen with russian oil. anyway. that's all the time we have. i want to take my guess in new delhi valley and one joe. and of course i

want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r t c. you next time. remember, across stock models the, the russian states never as tight as on one of the most on screen and the best. most all sense of the, in the system must be the one else holes. question about this, even though we will then in the european union, the kremlin mission, the state on the rush to day and split from ortiz full neck,

even our video agency, roughly all the band on youtube tv services for the question, did you say even closer to the cuz i know it's pretty nice to someone that just didn't want to say i'm on this for gabriel. bullshit based issue i do for you. i've had it under the guise of evacuation about 50000 people were transported. the main purpose of this concentration camp in federal rules was to in think, prisoners was typhus and use them as a human shield against the advancing soviet on me. giving my own but feeling can slip into phone and you put them in the space given it was in

love with like you can for the ship that your certificate and stuff like that. but don't want to bring your name the i'm so sorry i missed because on your certificate seems to put your salary and that is a to see if the nazis use people is biological weapons leading them to perish without food, water or shelter. the draw of some water for me. if i did this, of course in your lives, i know what to do for you. smart threats, nuclear infringe, kenesha wheeler should have just put in each each issue really ship for them to move the cam gloucester 10 days or what else made it drastically defense from other cam, so that the rice watch on tv, the lifestyle. all americans

today are on forces joined our nato allies in air strikes against the serbian forces the excess or try what to do really to see that your son sent him a pass since the my you over to somebody to tell him that i do the deal aids that monique 0 sent out to me pretty much similar to to toothpaste. i most know what i'm going to else the.