are you ready to come along? the the hello and welcome to cross lock. were all things are considered? i'm peter lavelle. this is gathering of the g 20 reflected strikingly different world views. the west drone gone about its ukraine proxy works the rest of the global south focused on international stability and economic prosperity. the process of being the g 20, i'm joined by my guess pelk sharma in new delhi. she is managing editor of 1st post

and network 18 in one joe. we have john pang. he is a senior fellow of the belt and road initiative caucus for asia pacific and in bali we cross the call. john. he is a political analyst historian and host of the silk and steel podcast. alright. costs are those that affect, that means you can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate, let's 1st go to new delhi policy. and preparing for this program, i looked at international media, western media, a media from the, the global south. and it was starkly different. but just like the starkly different view points that within the a g 20 bloomberg comes to mind. it was badly managed. it was this organized um the, the focus was on jo bite and no one talked about trump and, but when i looked at other media a lot was talked about and very important and issues that apply to the vast majority of the world's population. but it's not talked about in western media. it, that is one of the striking things about this, this gathering. go ahead and new delhi,

something else that's going to be done. thank you very much for having me. as part of this conversation, i, the, the disparity that you pointed out into with the rest and media and looks at issues and looks at events most of the rest of the world has been added into. if i could use the example, other words of india as external assessment of desperation for who said a couple of years back. that the problem is that your belief that there was problems are problems. uh, the other way around. actually the problem with the was problems of back to the was problems. i'm not you on scrubbing. that translates to the media as well. and, and they look at everything to as such a lens which is very evident. but the soul of that other little, the south leaders, including the need of india and disease. i did point out what type of issues that the world really grappling with because of the conflicts because of the policies because of the rules that uh, a small bunch of lead us to, to make it and false on the rest of the world. the reason for the lives of christ

is those full shortage. there are a whole lot of issues that the one is drafting with and, and the g 20 summit did try to put the focus on that. we also heard from experts including those from the rest who said that going forward. 70 percent of the, the was gdp will come from the south. so it's about time that the west took note of the issues that concern the other guy. and it was very interesting, again, looking at western coverage of it, it was in ordinarily focused on the ukraine conflict. and we've known for, for over 2 years now, 2 years plus, is that the global south just as well. okay. what's a good, the european about your problem? you created your problem now, why don't you solve it? i mean, why do you want to bring in the rest of the world? and it was really remarkable how much the bilateral relationship between india and china was focused on in the global south media. but it was disparage, really mentioned in western media. go ahead, john. yeah, i tend to, um, add some historical context to this may actually be before this, you know,

the 2 previous occasions when you're repeating problems became world problems, right. maybe the 1st world war and the 2nd world. yeah. right. and we could not keep out of it. and it's instructive. and it's interesting and truly important that this time we can say, look, this is actually not all problem. these will never all problems, right? europe has been and the west has been in that arc of history, an exporter off of its conflicts. and so i think when people have the global south reject this, they do it with some historical sense that uh no. this is, you're not going to define our issue choose, i think this is, you know, this meet at disparity that you're talking about. i think it reflects the sudden state of mind. and i solution that not characterized as the west and design solution is not just in the launch of psychological. and it's not just in the sort

of increasingly the use of sanctions and restrictions export restrictions and so on . it's, it's starting to be a sort of, you know, a bubble and it puts them in a logical bubble as well. utilities not to live in your own world. zip is, is the kind of, we are the world complex credit when you're no longer the world. cuz that's, that's absolutely true. you know, carl, a few years ago i was in beijing for a bricks, media conference. and we had this fascinating discussion, one of the problems that the global south spaces it needs to overcome is it, we need our own google's, we need our own means of communication. but like, for example, you know, i learned about what's going on and chilly through bloomberg. what, what, why can't i have a, the global south, a conduit instead of always going through the western nodes. we need to break out of that. because if i had only read bloomberg for example, i would have thought that the g 20 was a complete waste of time and those stupid people in the south take it on board because pollutants taking over europe. if that's what you would get. well,

from us perspective, i mean many cases you 20 is a waste of time because most of western leaders including buying, they use g 20 as a photo op opportunity. yeah. it's a, it's a place where they take photos which side missed by the way. yeah. she was late to the meeting, and so the f m x, y, and then and then the car. okay. then carl, he disappeared into the rain for somehow, but i'm sorry to interrupt, keep going. 6. i mean, yeah, that's what fighting does by, it has to be a walk in zone before the past 4 years. nobody was surprised. i then i'll give it shows that kindly you relevance the us of us a global station right now, because we're facing some real issues, including the, the us supported is really at philosophy in the middle used us wage proxy. what did you, ukraine, and then, and there's a global foot short a foot shortage bar across the globe side. this was exasperated by us. innovation

is a bar across the world, leveraging financial sanctions. so, you know, by the, we, we don't, the, the rest of the world is looking at this and you look at the photo op and realize, you know what, we don't need by it. and we don't, uh, you know, i, i see your sentiment here. let me go back to policy. i mean, i, i think the g 20 is actually important because beyond the photo op, because the most important country is the most populous lee, they economically strong countries of global so they can sit down and they can confront their former colonial masters. ok. we need initiatives on poverty, climate change, economic prosperity, global economic, um, uh, governance, i mean, these are issues they have to address because just as you pointed out, well, you know, that's what's going on in the global south. it's one of our business. but when the, when the, when there's something going on in the, in the west, they want everyone else on board. i think it's a good tit for tat. go ahead and new delhi. absolutely, and i think increasingly western governments do realize that uh,

they cannot or continue doing what they're doing. they cannot going to do to dominate either culturally or technologically. they need a market 1st of all and they need fox news as well. and oh, interesting, we would be with the election of donald trump, but even jordan doesn't know which, which box knows it can really rely on. so there are drum proofing themselves and trying to figure out who are the allies and what a box doesn't, how transactions the relationship will be. so there's a bit of a kiosk there, and they need bought those in the global south. and these are countries with young population, these are countries with, with the, with people who are very to, you know, very, to have the hunger and who have the markets that the rest is definitely looking for . we see lead us back to until recently with lecturing countries and the bill to solve and human rights. now reaching out to those very countries investigators right after go, i'm trying to business to business with density questions or change in for so i,

i think what is needed is a concerted effort. and the saw that you mentioned, the family for to it was a, it was a very telling a development that 3 lead us to the canadian, the dining. then, of course, joe biden could not make it with the family for the photo did happen. and i think there is, there is a message in there that the one that has longer to do a full joins the bus. yes. because john the world keeps going on. okay. well, you're not going to wait for by nor maloney or to go 3 because how would it be to the world? it has its own issues and it doesn't have to jenny reflect to western leaders like i, i'm glad the family photo was brought up because i think it is also very telling go ahead, john. this matter of the world going on is actually reflects a huge structural shift in the nature of the world economy, global apollo demographics and so on. and, you know, it's just that western behavior of the last few years have really exacerbated this really probably to the full. i think it's spend almost all of us. um,

the extent to which, you know, business, there's been a dropping of the masks of west and pretension. not all, you know, at long last coming to lee, right. could they just stop trying to trying to lecture people on human rights, for example, while vetting or supporting a full fledged genocide? right. talk to us about your responsibility when you are trying to trigger your possibly triggering a nuclear war. so it's, it's ludicrous. and however, these issues have brought up very, very sharply right now. and very graphically, i feel as if we're witnessing, you know, just quite a moment. and i agree, i think we're all witnesses to an extraordinary paradigm. so if you know carl, it's happening, you know, i've been talking about this as long as this program has been on air, but i think we all agree in the last couple of years. it's really accelerated, this change a for sure. i mean,

a shooting pain has said in his meeting with president boot and we are in a president to change on seeing you last 100 years you when i, we my friend we are driving this together. this us, on the other hand, has been disjoint. all the international forum is international institution itself helped to create after world war 2. this is why people are now looking to breaks as a alternative to the us dominated international institutions in the past. yeah, well you know, carl, you, if you're getting way ahead of me because that's what i want. i mentioned the 2nd part of the program, but poky, i'll drop i'll, i'll start with you. the, the, the western postwar order is basically done. it's faded away. go ahead and pop punk in new new daily will actually re uh you mentioned that that you, you're getting this news from bloomberg and it is a fact that the west has dominated the narrative and dominated the channels to which people are informed and formed from their opinions,

but increasingly technology, despite their best efforts, has democratize information. and so, so we see things for what they are always seeing. that the same us justifies an invasion of iraq in the name of fighting terrorism, but sits in judgement of others of and when a similar a water conflict breaks out the same us does the want to respect the introduction resolved, but decides that the, the, the, it band elected and venezuela is not going to be called the president and the nominate someone else as a president the next? well i didn't talk, i have to jump in here to, i mean it's not part of the program, but the election in moldova was an absolute jam. but you know, the world goes on for the west. you know so much for democracy or i'd have to jump in here. we're going to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on the 320 states with all the

the, the because i know it's pretty lots of, i'm interested in lots of fam, on this for gabriel boy said space issue. i have to fall under the guise of evacuation about 50000 people were transported. the, the main purpose of this concentration camp in bella rows was to in think, prisoners was time for us and use them as

a human shield against the advancing soviet on me, getting my own but really slipped into phone. you put them in. there was one of us in the plugin for the ship, the ship, a presto survivor stuff. i don't wanna jump on your name. you know, i'm so sorry i missed because that an extra 262, put aside and as a c c, 's use people as biological weapons leading them to perish without food. what's the most shelter? the joy of some other for me, if i did think so, couldn't they knew who lives? i knew you should be smart. the can. you could the infringe, kenesha wheeler should have just put in each each additional really strips for them to move the cam gloucester 10 days. or what else made it drastically defense from of accounts of the 3rd rice watch on t. the welcome act across stock where all

things are considered. non peter live else remains. you were discussing the g 20 the okay, let's go. let's go back to john in the one joe. i think it's very interesting. yeah . it's like the sanctions has already been mentioned here. and i think we should also bring up on the western militarism is a, you know, the more i look at the, like the, the g 20 at least aspects of it, particularly or but, and particularly like the bricks. is it, and you know, the west use the sanctions to get to get its way, often against international law. but i see these, these global south institutions. they're, they're creating them is that they're creating barriers, a shield against that. what they want to do is they want, you know, a, they basically they, uh, the west thing. so you know, the way the world is afraid of their sanctions. but now we have countries coming together to shield themselves collectively against sanctions. i'm thinking about financial institutions, banking and like that. so it's trying to coordinate the west from all,

what's ill effects? go ahead john. yes i, i think there is that going on and this sort of, uh, some, coordinating off, but actually we have passed the stage where you even need to coordinate off when you effect the sanction. it's like sewing on the, you know, sitting on the branch and sewing on it. but um, you know, it's effective if you're, if you're attached to the trunk. but you know, the smaller bit you fall off. so there's, you know, it's a portion of forest isolated and where will pass the time when the west is the center of the global economy. global growth is driven by asia. most of global trade is between the global cell and the south and west is no longer central to the global economy. it's peripheral and bricks shows that, you know, at g 20, for example, if um, you're right that this is the, this is the point where, you know, the countries of the global south, the, you know, can, can confront those on the other side. in the past few years, it hasn't been

a very interesting exercise. you've tended to have the g 7 sort of go on to about about ukraine and then just walk out etc. and russia showed up that sort of thing. you know, it was pretty unproductive. but now i think the rest, the global majority have shown, and i think this is going to be reflected in that you 20. but if you walk out, well, we're just going to have take the picture without real clear. we're going to go on . so it's not just a question of protecting against it. i think they need to understand they're no longer central to the global economy, not technologically, not even scientifically. right. a study is just just come up that we might, by nature listing the 20 nature of the, the scientific journal, listing the 20 more me andrea cities in terms of scientific production, the top to it, aging and showing high but aging twice the amount of shanghai. you know, west is out of the top 20 cities. i think 9 a half of them are in china so that,

you know, china is already exceeded the west in terms of scientific for production of knowledge. so these are things we ship happen very, very quickly. and i think people in the west having to adjust it to a model but have a really difficult time. it's almost pathological, all the panic of the last of this sort of a, you know, primacy, u, as in charlie, in fact, actually they don't have to worry about it. yeah. but john, you're absolutely right. there is an element of a panic there. i think you're absolutely right because pending, because that's why you see such an aggressive behavior around the world stage because the gemini is slipping through like sand and their hands and they're panicking about it because they don't have any alternative, you know, call another huge casualty of our time is the, the end of international law. you, the genocide is already been mentioned here we've had with wars of choices. the west has committed in the, in the law in this century alone. and again cut the global south is either it doesn't the international as well as the laws used against them. it's

a cultural against them when the perpetrators are at the a breaking the law or the west. go ahead carl. exactly us use icbc to go after our menu does not like yet when icvc issues warrens over rest for the yahoo, you know, united states is not going to comply. and this is a problem. this is a problem. us is that us is actively destroying all these the credibility of all these international institution. and for us, you have to help create in the 1st place. and this is what people realize. why do we need us to be the 1st place? because you for the past, um yeah, as joseph morales, the famous gardner has said that there's a western hockey. this is over is over, and this is something that just present shooting. pete had made very clear to bite and joins are us china, somebody just prior to g 20. you said there must be correct. strategic

understanding this do says that the trap is not a historical reality for a new cold war can not and should not be bought. and at, at that he goes out to say the words must be what trustworthy an action must be. play for a person cannot stand without credibility, china always follow through on his words, by you for the us. i always say one thing a does another. it's very detrimental to america's image and damage mutual twice. i mean, so you can just basically call all america up with speaking with a port tom here. and this is a very uh i'll, i would say i would correct your stickly long message, but i think it's, it's to, to be delivered to not only biting, but also the incoming trump administration. now it's important to understand that the time have changed, disabled, that change. yeah. the it, but it's a mindset that hasn't changed because we all know with the incoming administration, taiwan is good. it'd be the new hot button issue for this. admit,

it's obvious to me. okay, and you know, broke broken promises, broken commitments abound, right, that air poking again, you know, kind of looking at how the international order is changing. so it's really remarkable, again to see how many countries in the global south realize they've better state to if they don't hang together, they're going to hang separately. and i think that that is a trend that is growing. go ahead and i think the indigenous thinking in i was reading some uh, a reports and statements business from the you foreign policy to joseph border. who said that wherever i go, i find myself constructed to the accusation of double standards. are integrated into model macro, who said i'm struck by how much the cost of the global solved at the beginning one day because of the rest of the lectures. the rest of the was about what is right, what is it? who's based order today, or both game in that this was the 49th die in the united states as he was the beatles baba to defend. that is the block,

the resolution against israel at the united nations. and that says something. so you use the, the live expression, your use of the human rights as, as a stick to beat up the rest of the world. read about those same rules, do not apply and the world is beginning to not just see it, but also call it out. and, and that should give the rest uh, some thoughtful thoughts and ideas and how to mean that rate. well, john, it's really amazing that joseph beretta has been brought up twice on this program, which i have um, well i haven't been so kind to in the past. okay. but the garden, you know, attending their garden issue. but that tells us everything about the mindset. okay . it you can talk to people rationally. but joseph bro just thinks because he's a european, he knows better, he is better, he's more moral that this is something a mindset that it's impossible to, to delve into confront. let, let me try to have

a slightly hopeful perspective on this at by, by trying to get to, to have a pep at least see that what just happened in november 6th, in the us elections. and as a glimmer of hope in this regard. in that, i think this, this mindset is um, characteristic of a very, very small a fin, restricted elite and so angry with me, anglo american or yeah, you know, atlanta, north atlantic. or you can say, find that the 5 vice 5 eyes, 5 eyes plus you know, natal but. but i think i think it's the, the election showed health spin this, this, this, this elite is and how spin that idea. ology really is, i think it's rejected even in the united states at the heart of, of western power. so that was the big thing, you know, regardless of, of who trump stops is, is, you know, of these appointments. i mean,

those are important. but look beyond at his base, look at the us, i think the ideology that sustains the supremacy is a, which is liberalism, is a goner with the popular west. that's what populism is. it's a rejection of that. and so it's popular basis is gone. it's on mosque at home. so this, this unit polar ism, this premises them this liberal supremacy is a also, it does not work at home any more. so, so there's a little bit of hope there, but you know, it could be really troublesome. this, this p i a, i think john, i think you have a very interesting read on that. i'll go to call right now. i mean, one of the things, the, the, the, the west is always telling the preaching about standards and all that. but half of america is poor now and it's getting poor. okay. it's one of the reasons for populism to rise. and so i, you know, i think i can take on board with john had to say,

but before we get to that optimism, they will have to be a complete breakdown in the west. i mean, the europe, europe is suffering terribly. um, you know, i, we live here in russia, the sanctions of only created innovation in russia. it hasn't hurt russia at all. go ahead. carl is exactly the right price. important is that doing is tucker carlson. interviewed, there needs to be a change in the hedge, a monic mindset of the us, the lead. if that mindset does not change, then nothing will ever change. and we, this is again, a highlighted during the presidency. you can stop who is by it. and you said, we need to treat each others as equals the exchange between 2 major countries like china, united states, neither 2nd side can reshape the other according to their own wishes. nor can they suppress the other face the car on the girl. do you think an american president can publicly treat the president of china as an equal?

they should be you. i know it, but he won't. do you know, he won't. you want us. the do not have outlook as us has vassals. this is why right now that you've been going after you india us just inviting a indian businessman a donnie for supposedly a corruption charge in this united states. as your u. s. cord is trying to invite the indian businessman for something he has has supposedly down in india. and the only reason that they are able to do that is because the quite big claim a donnie has had some transaction on the u. s. bond market. so by through using the us financial had gemini, they're throwing the books at everybody, they don't like. i mean, this is obvious, attempt to put pressure on the body government because they didn't like that, you'd be presuming, showing an independent foreign policy versus russia because india is continued to purchase russian oil and gas and then re sells it to you at

a premium price. and the united states does not like this, but this is going to wrap the bike. well, it looks to me that the, the future ingenious entrepreneurship is coming from the global south because everybody knew that was gonna happen with russian oil. anyway, that's all the time we have. i want to take my guess in new delhi valley and one joe. and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at r t c. you next time. remember, across the rules, the,

the, the, of the revolution of 1789 in france gave hope for the liberation of the oppressed peoples in the french overseas territories. but paris did not want to part with its sources of profit. so 1st sign of the colonization was the uprising of black slaves in haiti that remote island produced almost half of all the sugar on the planet.

sooner was made by d as in franchise slaves brought from africa. in $1791.00, they started an uprising against their oppressors. the black swept away the colonial administration and formed their own army. it was led by that charismatic leader, francois dominique, tucson, levered 2 or 3 times to regain control of the colony were unsuccessful. having comes up, our napoleon dispatched a large expeditionary force to haiti. the french manage the captured tucson loved to or by defeats, but they could not suppress the rebels and suffered devastating defeats. on january 1, 18 o 418 declared independence. the 1st one and the whole latin america. however, freedom was paid for with the blood of 200000 courageous haitians who had sacrificed their lives for the abolition of slavery on our planet. the events and

haiti were the only successful uprising of slaves in history. when they not only through of slavery but also began to rule their state the my fellow americans. today, i armed forces joined our nato allies in air strikes against the serbian forces the .