the, the, the welcome to chrome, smartphones where all things are considered on peter a little. what is biting a need to achieve escalating ukraine proxy war? oh, should we interpret russia's reaction? and finally, where is donald trump? in all of this, we discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess door to send me well we in budapest, he's a pod cast around the goggle, which can be valid on youtube and locals and assemble. we cross through petticoat romano, he is a historian and political commentator. right, gentlemen. crosstalk rules and effect, that means you can jump any time you want that. i always appreciate it. okay, let's take it off with georgian in budapest, so much couldn't be settled about what's happened in the last 10 days or even a hard to begin to start. i suppose over all the anticipating the of the,

the trump administration, that we up in for 60 days of new killer chicken, george. and this could well be, um, the, the divider in the administration is uh, obviously determined to escalate the conflict um in ukraine. i mean, i think there's 2 reasons for that. reason. obviously, 1st of all of the, you know, the really angry about the, the victory of donald trump in the humiliation that they just some of the, the hands of donald trump. and this one to box the man. um, by the time he gets into power because it goes well, have a full scale war on his hands. 2 months is a long time. you've been doing both a lot of mischief in 2 months. but there's a depo of exclusive duration that plays here. and that way that goes back to what the americans strategy has been in this war and ukraine. and that is to

degrade, humiliate, and demoralizing defeat russia. because all this, that these attacks, whether it's the attack of those, and even with these, with this drone insights, these are nato attacks, phone russians, era trip, or ukraine has not, doesn't have a means, the capability to launch long distance attacks. and russians are trip without the satellite technology information without information about the flight bathrooms. all of this is done done by nature. so therefore, if the rates are, it gets into the situation whereby it'll rupture just sit still and accept. the laser has the right to attack russians killed russians on russian tire trip, then rushes. these has to be a great power. russia then, is relegated the status of a north vietnam or the iraq or a syria, or a libya, but good bones on

a regular basis by the great powers. but they're only able to do anything. it's a to retaliate. and i think that's what the, the goal is to just keep doing this or sions. they will look russians unable to do anything about it. but i think that's why russel really got has to say, no, we, we, we filed about the situation to go on. and they have said no, because they, they fired. that's a hypersonic ballistic missile, which is quite extraordinary. some of the images and video footage i've seen of it here of teddy, are they being, this is what russia does when the west escalates, they let me return the favor and, and i still think, well, the western powers, with the exception of the u. k. for some reason hasn't really been able to digest and understand that rescue will not tolerate this type of behavior and versus change it to new kids or dock dockman to a to reflect that. i mean, the, the, the west wants to escalate, rushes matched, that escalation, take, you know, i,

i think matching is exactly, it's a key term, you know, right? because when, when you look at what put in has been saying about this publicly onto the and then the address to the nation. and obviously the word key as stress several times that to always be a response. make no mistake. and, but he's also used to web symmetric again and again, sometimes he's used to with me. right. right. and so i think that's exactly what the russian strategy right now is to respond. but in the, in a ways that exactly matches the best them escalation, but doesn't up the and beyond that as it were. because i think the judge has the right one corner of the dilemma, right? that's what is described, dilemma dilemma that best and strategy tries to impose. investment is if you don't do anything be immediate. you do provide a gain to, to secondary, tertiary status in the international system as it mediates but the other one of the

dilemma of closes if you do the wrong thing, may finally be able to, to activate the 4 or whatever it is of optic of 5 of the made to treat the and so everything be half a to you. now don't get me wrong. i don't actually think nature wouldn't necessarily weight. but of course, whoever been such a large scale was right. it would always be a catastrophe for everybody, including for us, so nobody would be better off in the right. so that's a dilemma i think. and i for you, what russia is trying to do is always finding exactly the symmetric or the mirror in the calibrated responds. no, no response, but some response and then it has to match. yeah. but matching it, you know, like getting going to the realm of, of, of extreme danger, george, because i mentioned to you k, a few seconds ago. and they, these missiles that are being fired into russia, they're british. okay. they're,

they're manufactured, they're presumably the technicians along with it, using either their own or american satellite, a technology of this kind of the lead up to george. but if nato is going to attack russia, then rushing me attacked the country that is producing these missiles, killing russians. this is where we're going, george. i think so, and i think that in booted in some speech um, a few nights ago, he did specifically say that given the, these miss laws are being uh, gonna be used by the british technicians or an error nato technicians, the majors providing the satellite technology of it effectively, nato is boeing, our tar trip. therefore, we feel that we can respond to a games, those countries on their temperatures who are providing the weapons for ukraine to

use the game starts. and that's, that's, that's as explicit as he's ever said. anything. we, again, a type the territory on those powers that provide these, uh, these uh, missiles and this moves on technology to ukraine's. so that's a really a warning. and so i think the now that he has made this morning, then i, i think russia product will have to follow through. because if this does happen again, and i think it will happen again, then russia, it has to follow through. and then of course, it does raise the question, well, what happens then? now it goes, well, brittany will of go say, this is unprovoked aggression against us. and, you know, and, and then we'll go to nato and say, well, all the go 5, you know, that said one for a is a one. we are all it was now with russia. but then it will of the need to powers say, because of a say, you know, this was clearly provoked and now they being dragged into a, a war against the nuclear polyps when they had nothing to do with this attack. so

let me wait a says be under but essentially george, they hung guarantee they'll say, well wasn't home gary in this so that was not there didn't go right into the music that's recognized particularly when you, when you visited of the countries like hungary of slovakia and the czech republic there will much closer to russia, and so they're going to say, well, they, we're going to get clobbered because of you. so science, but most things going on. i, i don't think this is the right time to solve invoking article 5. i'm going to ask them of course mode. of course this will be the time, but right? absolutely. i'm not arguing for it. but old george i, i agree mostly, but i disagree. and one point i read to 10 statement a tiny bit differently about i think it's important as far as i understand, he said the military installations of the powers that also address beat behind ukraine. v. and i'll be happy to write the visit. plus you have a right to

a tech those, and i think they have to import new clients. one is immediate to installation can re, but it'd be on the territory of us. and so certainly not. so with that, i completely agree with you, but it could also be on, for instance, territory of the nature of man, but some of the new and natal states, which is i think, a very important zone. yeah. right. it's still natal. don't get me wrong. that's do very dangerous. the other thing is, i think they have to take the residence of a seal receive and just say we have the right. because the vice, once i'm up like the use this different of you from best and pollutions. when you hear rest, uncle edition, say ukraine has the right, then the mean ukraine must, your grain has the right to good internet will. therefore, your brain must be got into nato. the russians don't seem to have that right. so much my logic code. one device and so i think be can be, can, the, essentially reserving the option, right?

but i certainly, we have a few, this doesn't take away the initial problem bridges when they never exercise the right, right, then they get demoted geopolitically. so the issue is still there, i'm just saying that at the point of decision, right, imagine another ukranian stripe of attack comes right again into can you russian territory at the point of decision, it seems to me that the russian leadership, fortunately, as reserved, it serves some room for maneuver them as wise, they're much more adult into the room then the best in this way. i see you. well the that's, that's what that's quite so because the problem is that by restraining themselves in the way they have for the past 3 years, they have encouraged nato to take one bold step off for another and to keep escalating. so it's been a react, bailey running from, saw that were very cautious. oh, russia didn't react. yeah. so let's you know, up the, on to, oh, they still haven't reacted. okay, well let's do this as always,

that by step, you know, bring bringing in the, a abrams tanks, you know, the f 6 themes, the, you know, the kind of call them the high model. and then the time comes, you know, each step, you know, they were watching carefully will rush or respond out and what they want to do or the between the and say, you're absolutely right. but i think it's the thing that you and i talked about earlier is that over this, the 3 years in, in watching rushes reaction to escalation. now we're at a point is that is a, a military base that is hit in the u. k. with warning, with minimum of hours, warning, getting your people out, you know, whatever up it's going to be kind of incumbent upon the u. k. government to say, well, this is an unprovoked attack, but with all of this discussion, no one's going to say, well, what did you expect a whole to? this could happen because this is, it look at it and it wouldn't be against nato. it'd be against the u. k, go ahead, george couple, we said no,

i think that's the best one that's i think what will happen. and i think that it will be a british military installation that i think the russians will give advance warning . and yeah, the course, the british government and the british media will screen that this was on the on provoked attack, but i don't think they'll be too many bias this was, i don't know if this has been going on for 3 years. you've had warning off the warning officer warning and, and you haven't paid any attention to it. so do you think that's what i see the russian territory and the 11th, right. so that's why i think the optically attempt to invoke all the go 5, what is i think do that. i don't think i, i think they'll be too many men, nato member states that will say, no, i don't think so. i think we need to just cool things down it. well, that's what we all hope. did cooler heads will prevail that we've been asking that i can bring for that for the last 3 years. right, gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here. i'm going to go to a short break, and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on so really to stay with our team. the

the this is for digital rest of choices to operate. it didn't don't pass under the orders of ukrainian special services. the hands of staying with the blood of hundreds of people who were the neighbors in the towns and villages of john bass. beach was problem is money in a career and ukraine security service in case of failure, they were guaranteed st. you in ukraine. however,

today's reality for them is jail time for many years, the outcome of working for you cry and the enemy is up to 20 years in prison for terrorism. and that's been the welcome after cross that bullhorn time peter level. here we are discussing some real news take, let me go to you and assemble. this is the other side of this. very complicated equation is, trump proofing nato, and boxing him into a corner. and you know, if he, again, looking at some of the people that are in the trunk or bit, we have very different ideas coming from them. come out and cut off the aid. you cut off the aid, the war comes to an end. there are others or say know, the weight,

trump is going to end this, he's going to wonder escalates, and he's going to tell the russians to knock it all off. okay. i mean you have very different extremes here. who is speaking for trump. what trumps mind is we don't know, i think we're all this would agree. it's rather peculiar that the truck, uh trump, in his immediate circle and really quite quite money on what's going on right now. smell is that because of the logan assets and all these kinds of things, we can discuss it. but i think it's, it's obvious the saying that the trump is being given to faith, complete his new administration. and we're going to have to do with fax on the ground generated to, to the 2 months before i now get ration go ahead take, you know, i, i think you have so right, the time factor and to change of administration is very important and go to the bottom administration is doing now. i mean, it's not just the attack comes permission, which is more than a permission, right? it's also the land mines and to present the land mines. it's a sanctions against the strong bank,

which is another very aggressive move. it's that they've gone out of the way, i mean, blankets that he basically said bill going to push every dollar behalf out of the door before this is over right before bill. but, and the only thing that the restraining of them a tiny bit is that most of these dollars have to spend, but installed parts of the pentagram and to stop by and say to. but they're taking every step, almost every step, almost that you can imagine to make things worse, right? that i did, i just interrupt real quick here. can you explain to our audience? how does this approach help ukraine? it doesn't know what the, what that's the point they're making. it was for everybody else has been making it was for your grand now for over 2 years, everything they've done has just increased ukrainian sacrifice into creating and destruction. and of course, as on certain pulls, terrible costs on russia and also to an extent on the western type. this is across the something. absolutely right. but she has to think, i don't think it's that easy to books in trump and all just talk about the trunk

proving either foreign policy towards your grand 8 to your print on a to as a whole. it's actually, i'm sorry, but that's misleading. in the dark forest, because the drum proves the elections, they've been not from, from the guns, but once the guy is in power. now the other point is, of course, correct. we don't know, but the collective trump is up to write the paper around to him. now, did you decide a little bit my go, blogs came out on the fox interview and what's a tiny bit critically off the bite and move? donald trump, juno came out on x and was much more explicit against the by the restriction did was it comes, but i still agree with you. we have heard relatively new, so we out there to guess. but so the russians, right. and i think one very important thing is that the rush from leadership eyes for you as good reasons not to be too pessimistic about the incoming trunk from their perspective. and that is good news for us, stupid,

because it means that the russian leadership has an incentive not to let itself be lured into those very, very late few, but escalation, by the, by the midst of, i mean, the russians are looking at the store and they're seeing the by doing this stuff and i'll gambling for every thing they have, but they also know you say 60 days is a long time. i agree, but on the other hand, it's only 60 days, right? you get so this, you have enough mazda of ok. yes, by george, so much can happen in 60 days. it'd be better to put it under a need. this is what makes this so dangerous right now because this really is, i mean, we use the, the met made of for a game of chicken, but this is the real quick. we're in, this isn't real. it's happening in front of our mind. strong. no. yeah, i think so because i think 60 days is a very long time and we used to say a week is a long time in politics, but it's 60 days is an awful long time in the g o. politics and. and they gave me

a brush up, fails to respond properly to a series of very serious attacks on it's, tara tray, by nato power is then again, rushes. these has to be a great pop now, and i'm just trying to, i don't know whether the russians really have any great hopes that from that have hope. so. try them back in the 20162017. and i think they were very disappointed. they'll look at this administration, the trump is put together and they going to be looking for where are the voices for pete's? i mean, trump sold himself at the beginning of the campaign, and then we have to remember this was the beginning of the campaign when he was seeking the, the bodies nomination. and he had to appeal to his base. he had to appeal to maggot up. really hate of this, a ukraine, a venture, and he made all sorts of saved statements to them about lea. uh, with a little more on the neo cons. the people who could keep driving america into was,

you know, he's going to bring this and ukraine war to an end. we know that the risk level 3 is of that of the beginning. and then he kind of that will evaporate that once he, um, is the guild the nomination, and then actually help mike john speaking my johnson, to a secure with the 100000000000 dollar aid package. so if you look at this trump team, you'd like to say, where is the somebody like a gun on douglas mcgregor and you'd be a voice for peace squares. uh, red grinnell hills. that would probably be a voice with the some with rand for the those. it'd be a voice for peace. these people, well, the in, in the administrative people who would actually be involved in congress and making their hoax. this is all and it's on the ration f and mandates they. he was exactly the one person who with the a point to really is unambiguously a spokesman for mega my day is use of life when a days a significant bit chrome didn't expect any political capital to try to save him.

the people have done so he got a full for him. he didn't. so okay. so if the russians are looking and then they're going to say, well, well, you know, when, if this is going to be like of the, say, the reruns of a of the 1st that i'm, you know, yeah, he talks a good game. but when push comes to shove, he really doesn't doing very much. and that's why i think that the russians are not to thinking in terms of a well, we better hold off because i think we're going to get this up. some of the great deal with the trump, i don't think they going to do that. i think they're going to the desk of websites . what's the best immediately? i think that is the way things stand right now and things could change by the end of the day. the way things are changing. and then, you know, we could kind of the split. the baby here is a trump is going to be a hawk on russia. push for this a ceasefire, which will not happen because the russians one agree with that. um, for default to make the, um, uh, ukraine, some kind of fortress state and,

but that no more funding due for an aggressive war. you know, i, i tell you that are taking mag the world around getting around. it doesn't make any sense because you know what? oh you didn't talk to the russians about it. okay, fine. but i think that's the, the, the, the, the treadmill there on right now. i'm go ahead. i'm ok. yes, yes. the problem we, we have gas is all across about what trying to really to right. and we have really talking about 2 questions, naming our guesses and what other versions guessing, right? so for go back to the class and the deluxe lots advised us now, which is why the russians guessing. i agree with someone one thing i don't think they have who, but trump and they don't expect a great deal just because trump is coming in the i agree. but i also believe they have reason to her to wait very strong responses because they don't most of the opposite either like located as this empiric. if the some leadership has already made up its mind that it's absolutely all the same. we have nothing to expect from

the trump changed. why did it actually is try back and it makes to move is trying not to was the 1st attack. i'm some send to them instead of the storm shadow uses on russian territory. why did they do that? because there was funds the fastest bondsville survey was trained, it's even possible that they will rush, make the fire a new quote, right. but it didn't even have explosive. why? it's not as big of nuclear. why it's, it's possible from the small crate as it left. that they just use kinetic warheads, which is the smallest thing you can possibly do in terms of destruction in which k it. but it also teddy created a visual that was very, very old. i know that's the 2nd point, in which case we took care to have minimum destruction maximum and demonstration effect. we don't know this yet, but this is one possibility of what they've done. but we don't know is that didn't strike po number, the didn't start visuals. the disney striker base in germany,

they actually still acted in a very restrained way. right. and then they have the rest of us began. i want us again. so we have actually a reason to think that the rest of the district does not believe it's all the same . i agree with george. i think the re is not dream of. so don't sit there and think all the drums is going to fix. as far as he's a friend, of course not, but they have reason to think. if we wait for another 60 days, we might be playing in a more, it's been tejas environment. right. and one thing the lesson leadership has told us over the extent of this war and even beyond the crisis since 2014, that they're capable of long term planning very much. i'm like, oh, and the vision in charge of this demonstration, it showed capacity. but it didn't show intent and i think that's very interesting. what i think it's very um, it's like it's going to be a very tedious over the next 2 months, which i'll be talking to both of you multiple times during that time is that it's

kind of like being in a relationship that sub, with someone that's lost their mind because you have to be, you have to expect the unexpected. and, and then of course, in western audiences, i've never been told, is it this from russia's perspective, this is the next essential trip nato. this is the craven choice. that's the difference of the different sites. go ahead, george driving us. so that's a very important point because you just, if you watch the common free all in the, the last few days of the goal is oh cool. jimmy is just the sabre rattling. bolton is just the last spring. we need to stand off the boat and we need to make clear to both jim that you know, we're not going to be intimidated by his saber rattling. he may have nuclear weapons. we also have nuclear weapons. this is the gist of the country, but they don't seem to appreciate that, hey, it's for russia,

this is an existing troll massa. they already to escalate to whatever you know doing in nuclear weapons if necessary. when it comes to the west, it no president, no residence since 1945 has ever said that the, the board is in eastern europe, the regimes in eastern europe about a vital national interest of the states. and once that is, was signed for blazing american likes. well, again, we saw a eisenhower in 1956 and hungry was the lyndon johnson in 96, a double check us the racket, ronald reagan, a bulletin, 1981, not one of these of the presidents said it is, was sacrificing american life and to bring the day of the planet to the point of destruction. oh, but is that what happens that when he came to the cuba? what happened in the american habits way? yes, but that most of the american president said, yes, we are ready to go all the way up to a new clear, well, but i think these comment,

you said that there are also a rock that yeah, that was kind of contract is also a rock. when you know defendant jeff gentlemen of the what i think is really dangerous, is that the cub ball out in the, by the ministration. and they see this is the last chance to um, to contain and even break up russia and their dreams are, are in tatters. right now, i think that explains as wild as for towards a process in front of our eyes. it's now it's going into hope and hope dice gets dies 1st. and last in this case, by a gentleman that's all the time we have. i want to thank my guest in budapest and assemble, and of course i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at our v. c. and if somebody member across stock rules, the

a, the same rom just don't have to shape house because after and engagement equals the trails. when so many find themselves boils, the parts we choose to look so common ground, the portion near wash, lots of stuff is a way out of the g at the fortune of us and that sort of in a sports. and she wasn't able to do the story and pushing a or studio to see for sure option that this be so for ship or for starter work or great. so gosh, straight. and you want to do it was a school in your welski territory. so this could save the natural logos of it. so when we ship portion was the forwarded me, it was about

a football. i still knew about chavo in gold and on my side as close i, you was a distortion boat. also the ocean continued to go out and i get bully now. probably not sure. the south piece of stone could see about spilt on socket. you can do so full so comfortably. people are bruised and just got a smith. gosh, can't bluish boys coming out on the bus which is still going on to me? so i'm only portion of of your stomach? i thought maybe waiting in go are you still not done? i'll go back to normal. yeah, i get to talk about it. there's dorski a whole bunch bundle of g, circa, comfortable companies, you don't want some about on they're not, i mean, yeah, the desktop, i dropped off some stuff. some of the in in

the this is for digital rest of choices to operate. it didn't don't pass on to the owners of ukrainian special services. the, the homes are staying with a lot of hundreds of people who are the neighbors in the towns and villages have done bass. th was problem is money in a korea and ukraine security service. in case of failure, they will guarantee its thing to in ukraine. however, today's reality for them is jail time for many is the outcome of working for ukraine. the enemy is up to 20 years in prison for terrorism and that's been us the .